FacebookTwitter
Hatrack River Forum   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Fun With Etymology (Page 1)

  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: Fun With Etymology
Noemon
Member
Member # 1115

 - posted      Profile for Noemon   Email Noemon         Edit/Delete Post 
A little while ago I used the phrase "animal husbandry" in an email, and since then I've been thinking about the etymology of the word "husband". I did a little digging (not much, I found what I was looking for at the first place I looked), and thought that others might be interested by it. Probably just Jon Boy, and he probably already knew it, but hey!

From Dictionary.com's definition of "husband":
quote:
Word History: The English word husband, even though it is a basic kinship term, is not a native English word. It comes ultimately from the Old Norse word hsbndi, meaning “master of a house,” which was borrowed into Old English as hsbnda. The second element in hsbndi, bndi, means “a man who has land and stock” and comes from the Old Norse verb ba, meaning “to live, dwell, have a household.” The master of the house was usually a spouse as well, of course, and it would seem that the main modern sense of husband arises from this overlap. When the Norsemen settled in Anglo-Saxon England, they would often take Anglo-Saxon women as their wives; it was then natural to refer to the husband using the Norse word for the concept, and to refer to the wife with her Anglo-Saxon (Old English) designation, wf, “woman, wife” (Modern English wife). Interestingly, Old English did have a feminine word related to Old Norse hsbndi that meant “mistress of a house,” namely, hsbonde. Had this word survived into Modern English, it would have sounded identical to husbandsurely leading to ambiguities.
Anybody else have any fun etymology stuff to share?
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
esl
Member
Member # 3143

 - posted      Profile for esl   Email esl         Edit/Delete Post 
I found out yesterday that brainwashing is a literal translation from the Chinese term. I thought it was from Lalo's thread but I can't find it.. maybe there was a link and I haven't look hard enough. Anyway, I originally thought it was a phoneticization of the Chinese term and was thoroughly confused for a while. This is due to the fact that most 'english' words from Chinese are phoneticizations, e.g. gong hay fat choy, ketchup.

Ketchup is also from Chinese, I believe. 'Ke' is the second word in the compound for tomato and 'tchup' means sauce. fun stuff.

Posts: 1056 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jon Boy
Member
Member # 4284

 - posted      Profile for Jon Boy           Edit/Delete Post 
Funnily enough, my professor just mentioned the etyomology of husband last Friday, I think.

One of my favorites is the etymology of silly. It comes from the Old English sele, meaning "goodness" or "happiness." The adjective form started off meaning "happy" or "blessed." It quickly took on the meanings of "innocent or harmless," "deserving pity," and "insignificant or trifling." The meaning seems to have stayed there for a few centuries, and then it took on the meaning of "foolish or simple." Interestingly enough, German and Dutch kept the original meaning of "good" or "happy."

esl: That's cool. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't double-checked it up myself.

[ February 25, 2004, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]

Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Noemon
Member
Member # 1115

 - posted      Profile for Noemon   Email Noemon         Edit/Delete Post 
Very interesting stuff, both of you. Glad that you confirmed esl's input Jon Boy; I've been meaning to do that since it was posted, but haven't had a chance.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ryuko
Member
Member # 5125

 - posted      Profile for Ryuko   Email Ryuko         Edit/Delete Post 
(nodnod) Etymology is fun. Ke-tsiap is the original transliteration of the word, and it was a fish sauce orignally. Who knew?
Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
aka
Member
Member # 139

 - posted      Profile for aka   Email aka         Edit/Delete Post 
One of my favorites ever is the fact that "enthusiasm" came from the greek for "filled with god".
Posts: 5509 | Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Noemon
Member
Member # 1115

 - posted      Profile for Noemon   Email Noemon         Edit/Delete Post 
That is a cool one. I also like that "disaster" literally means "bad star" (with all of the astrological implications that that involves).

"Catastrophe" literally being a "down stroke" is a good one too.

Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
jehovoid
Member
Member # 2014

 - posted      Profile for jehovoid   Email jehovoid         Edit/Delete Post 
I posted this in the Word of the Day thread awhile back, but I'm not sure if anybody ever saw it, so I'll say it again.

I learned in a history class that the word "decimate" originally referred to the killing of every tenth man in a mutinous Roman legion, hence "deci" at the root of the word. So when you think about it, the word basically means counting to ten, which is ironic since nowadays counting to ten is a strategy to avoid becoming angry and violent.

Posts: 3056 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jon Boy
Member
Member # 4284

 - posted      Profile for Jon Boy           Edit/Delete Post 
Actually, decimate doesn't mean counting to ten; it means taking a tenth of something. Originally, it was exactly synonymous with the word tithe. Actually, I've seen tithe used to mean decimate, as in "the enemy is tithing us." Now I wish I could remember what book that was in.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
jehovoid
Member
Member # 2014

 - posted      Profile for jehovoid   Email jehovoid         Edit/Delete Post 
All I'm saying is that when you take a tenth of something, you have to count to the number ten. You walk down a line of soldiers, and every time you get to ten, you kill somebody.
Posts: 3056 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
pooka
Member
Member # 5003

 - posted      Profile for pooka   Email pooka         Edit/Delete Post 
My mom says she used to see bottles of ketchup where the word ended in t. Like Ketchut? Anyone seen anything like this?

I guess it's the dutch usage of silly in Oh Brother Where Art Thou

"The Soggy Bottom Boys is steeped in old timey lore; Heck, we're just silly with it."

In Iowa it's called cornchops!
quote:
In the 1980's ketchup was declared a vegetable by the government for school lunch menus. Suddenly Del Monte's Catsup, because of its spelling, was not on the approved list. Shortly afterward Del Monte changed the product's name to Del Monte Ketchup. So ketchup it is.

So the USDA has been part of codifying the language. Fascinating.

quote:
Heinz trying to play up their spelling and new plastic bottle was ridiculed by English teachers everywhere for their promotion "You don't need to 'ketch' it when it drops!" forcing Heinz to make huge donations to the "Erase Illiteracy in America" program.


Ah, this must be what my mother was thinking of. That she saw Catshup as a kit, and if inserted into this slogan... well, you know.

[ February 26, 2004, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: pooka ]

Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
jehovoid
Member
Member # 2014

 - posted      Profile for jehovoid   Email jehovoid         Edit/Delete Post 
I found it funny that "obnoxious" can also mean "servile" or "obedient."
Posts: 3056 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jon Boy
Member
Member # 4284

 - posted      Profile for Jon Boy           Edit/Delete Post 
This one's especially for Nick:
quote:
The regular ME. descendants of OE. wífman, -men, viz. wimman, wimmen (cf. OE. léofman, ME. lemman, LEMAN) continued in use until the 15th century. By c 1200 the rounding of wi- to wu- is clearly established, and is at that time characteristic of western ME. texts. The form womman appears in the late 13th century (first in western texts), and the corresponding pl. wommen in the late 14th. The simplification of mm in womman, -en and wimman, -en, and the consequent conversion of the first syllable into an open syllable gave rise to forms with ō and ē, which, continuing to the early modern period, provided the occasion for punning analyses of wōman and wēmen (see 1k below). From c1400 woman and women became regular spellings for sing. and pl., and have been retained as a properly corresponding pair to man and men; but in the standard speech the pronunciation (wu-) was ultimately appropriated to the sing. and (wi-) to the pl., probably through the associative influence of pairs like foot and feet.

Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dan_raven
Member
Member # 3383

 - posted      Profile for Dan_raven   Email Dan_raven         Edit/Delete Post 
I know the elves taught the Ents to speak, but what do all these word histories have to do with talking trees. I mean Entymol....

oh. Its Etymology.

Um.

Never mind.

Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Thunder's Core Smith
Member
Member # 6234

 - posted      Profile for Thunder's Core Smith   Email Thunder's Core Smith         Edit/Delete Post 
I've always been fond of "nice". I so enjoy telling people how nice they are.
Posts: 40 | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dead_Horse
Member
Member # 3027

 - posted      Profile for Dead_Horse   Email Dead_Horse         Edit/Delete Post 
Bugs! I want bugs! Why do I thing there should be bugs in here every time I see the title?
BRain_Dead_Horse

Posts: 1379 | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Editor-in-Chief
Member
Member # 5014

 - posted      Profile for The Editor-in-Chief   Email The Editor-in-Chief         Edit/Delete Post 
Pooka, no one would've been using a foreign or obsolete definition for silly in the 1930s.
Posts: 100 | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Noemon
Member
Member # 1115

 - posted      Profile for Noemon   Email Noemon         Edit/Delete Post 
Heh. Yeah Thunder's Core, I'm fond of that one myself.

What are you, evil or something?

Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
PaladinVirtue
Member
Member # 6144

 - posted      Profile for PaladinVirtue   Email PaladinVirtue         Edit/Delete Post 
Noemon, this a little off track but I have to ask: If you don't mind me asking, why were you writing about animal husbandry? Just curious as I work in a field that is related and do alot of it myself. [Smile]
Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Noemon
Member
Member # 1115

 - posted      Profile for Noemon   Email Noemon         Edit/Delete Post 
Really PaladinVirtue? That's interesting (and unusual these days)! What do you do?

Although I come from farming families on both sides, I've never really done any farming myself. We had a few cows and some chickens when I was very small, and I had a number of friends whose parents had farms when I was in grade school, but it's been a long time since I've been around a farmyard.

My email was actually about a play by email Dungeons and Dragons game some of us are playing. I was contemplating bringing along a goat on an expedition (as a source of food), and was asking whether any of the other player's characters had any skill in animal husbandry. I doubt we'll take the goat, but you never know.

[ February 27, 2004, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: Noemon ]

Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Thunder's Core Smith
Member
Member # 6234

 - posted      Profile for Thunder's Core Smith   Email Thunder's Core Smith         Edit/Delete Post 
only on days that end in y, noemy. [Evil]
Posts: 40 | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
butterfly
Member
Member # 5898

 - posted      Profile for butterfly   Email butterfly         Edit/Delete Post 
hm, at first when I read the title I thought etymology was the study of bugs.
Posts: 91 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
PaladinVirtue
Member
Member # 6144

 - posted      Profile for PaladinVirtue   Email PaladinVirtue         Edit/Delete Post 
I work in an Animal Research facility at a prominent University. (Please save your boo's and dispairaging (sp?) remarks...We do important medical research, primarily cancer research, and adhere to the strictest animal care policies.) As a veterinary technician I am concerned with animal husbandry issues on a daily basis.
Oh, and I say take the goat. They aren't too hard to care for as they eat pretty much anything and are tough little guys. And Lamb is good eating, though I have never eaten a goat, yet. [Smile]

Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Noemon
Member
Member # 1115

 - posted      Profile for Noemon   Email Noemon         Edit/Delete Post 
How noisy are they though? I'd hate to be hiding from a pack of rabid kobalds or something, and have the goat give us away.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
A Rat Named Dog
Member
Member # 699

 - posted      Profile for A Rat Named Dog   Email A Rat Named Dog         Edit/Delete Post 
Back to the whole "husband" thing ... isn't it interesting that two words we use today to describe a man's relationship to a woman ("husband" and "chivalry") originally described a man's relaitonship to his horse? [Smile]
Posts: 1907 | Registered: Feb 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Noemon
Member
Member # 1115

 - posted      Profile for Noemon   Email Noemon         Edit/Delete Post 
[Smile]

Now I'm going to have to look up the etymology of "chivalry"

Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ryuko
Member
Member # 5125

 - posted      Profile for Ryuko   Email Ryuko         Edit/Delete Post 
Yeah, that makes sense. Cheval is horse in French. (laughs)

You know, it's a bit off-topic, but I've realized that guys who profess themselves to be chivalrous always really annoy me. They imply that women can't take care of themselves and are hopelessly useless. I'm not really a feminist, but that really bugs me. Anyone else feel the same way?

Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dead_Horse
Member
Member # 3027

 - posted      Profile for Dead_Horse   Email Dead_Horse         Edit/Delete Post 
So, I looked it up, and the study of bugs is entomology. So I guess it's okay if there are no bugs here. Carry on....
Posts: 1379 | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Risuena
Member
Member # 2924

 - posted      Profile for Risuena   Email Risuena         Edit/Delete Post 
To take this even further off topic...

Paladin, I see you're located in Virginia. The prominent university you referred to wouldn't happen to be Virginia Tech, would it?

Posts: 959 | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dragon
Member
Member # 3670

 - posted      Profile for Dragon   Email Dragon         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
You know, it's a bit off-topic, but I've realized that guys who profess themselves to be chivalrous always really annoy me. They imply that women can't take care of themselves and are hopelessly useless. I'm not really a feminist, but that really bugs me. Anyone else feel the same way?
I do sort of... I think it depends on how they go about being chivalrous: if they act as if you can't do anything without their help, that's annoying. But if they just go out of their way to do little things for you, that's sweet.
Posts: 3420 | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
aka
Member
Member # 139

 - posted      Profile for aka   Email aka         Edit/Delete Post 
What's your favorite order of insects? Well, that's an easy one! Everyone loves the hymenoptera, don't they? Except for God, that is. God is inordinately fond of Coleoptera. [Big Grin]
Posts: 5509 | Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
PaladinVirtue
Member
Member # 6144

 - posted      Profile for PaladinVirtue   Email PaladinVirtue         Edit/Delete Post 
Risuena: Nope, I do not work at Vtech, although I am applying to their veterinary school there for this fall. I work in DC but live across the river in Virginia.
Posts: 181 | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Risuena
Member
Member # 2924

 - posted      Profile for Risuena   Email Risuena         Edit/Delete Post 
Ahhh... I saw vet tech, university, and Virginia, all of which added up to VT in my head. But that might just be because I'm slightly obsessed with Tech. [Wink]

Well, thanks to one of my college roommates who's at the vet school, so I know how hard it is to get in, and how hard you have to work once you're in, so good luck!

Posts: 959 | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
beverly
Member
Member # 6246

 - posted      Profile for beverly   Email beverly         Edit/Delete Post 
Oooo, I love etymology! A a gal I knew had an etymological dictionary, and ever since I have really wanted one. Anyone have a recommendation on where to find a good one?
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wussy Actor
Member
Member # 5937

 - posted      Profile for Wussy Actor   Email Wussy Actor         Edit/Delete Post 
Somebody told me that gullible is not really a word. Is that really true?
Posts: 288 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jon Boy
Member
Member # 4284

 - posted      Profile for Jon Boy           Edit/Delete Post 
Here's the complete twenty-volume Oxford English Dictionary at 70 percent off. Or there's the compact edition with nine pages' worth of text on each page (magnifying glass included). Merriam-Webster and Oxford also make dictionaries that are strictly limited to word origins. My mom has the M-W one, but I forget the exact title.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
aka
Member
Member # 139

 - posted      Profile for aka   Email aka         Edit/Delete Post 
Wussy Actor, it IS a word, it means brilliant and beautiful. Do people call you that too?
Posts: 5509 | Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
beverly
Member
Member # 6246

 - posted      Profile for beverly   Email beverly         Edit/Delete Post 
Whoo, Jon Boy, that is pretty expensive! I really wish I could remember the name of the one this gal had. It wasn't huge, but it was a "dictionary" that gave detailed etymological background on words rather than giving their definitions. I think it would cost at most $20
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jon Boy
Member
Member # 4284

 - posted      Profile for Jon Boy           Edit/Delete Post 
Maybe something like this?
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wussy Actor
Member
Member # 5937

 - posted      Profile for Wussy Actor   Email Wussy Actor         Edit/Delete Post 
Aka, all the time. Wow, brilliant and beautiful. I had no idea I was so freaking cool. Although, I don’t understand why they always laugh if they’re calling me brilliant and beautiful. Or why they don’t trust me with sharp objects. Or why they always insist on talking to someone else when I’m trying to give them directions. Oh, well. Doesn’t matter. I’m brilliant and beautiful! I’M GULLIBLE! I’M GULLIBLE!

[Wink]

Posts: 288 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
aka
Member
Member # 139

 - posted      Profile for aka   Email aka         Edit/Delete Post 
Because brilliant beautiful people like us need to be spared all that, and they see that, and so they do. [Smile]
Posts: 5509 | Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Noemon
Member
Member # 1115

 - posted      Profile for Noemon   Email Noemon         Edit/Delete Post 
Anybody remember the "Words on Words" segement on Morning Edition (or was it All Things Considered) that John Ciardi used to do, back in the early '80s? I loved those. I was so sad when Ciardi died.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Annie
Member
Member # 295

 - posted      Profile for Annie   Email Annie         Edit/Delete Post 
Chivalry comes directly from the French chevalerie, which comes from chevalier (knight).

The original concept of chevalerie didn't have to do with horses, it had to do with horse-men, and described their proper conduct as a vassal. Its connotation as proper conduct towards women comes from later notions of l'amour courtoise, courtly love, which was the peculiar phenomenon of love for a knight towards a (usually married) lady to whom he owed homage. In French, however, chevalerie retains its meaning as a feudal code of conduct towards one's superiors.

Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Annie
Member
Member # 295

 - posted      Profile for Annie   Email Annie         Edit/Delete Post 
garnet-

Sanskrit root gar, "transport", became in Greek gerôn, "old man" and in Latin granum, "seed". From there came the adjective granatus, "having many grains", and granatum: "pomegranate", which has red seeds. It is by comparison with the fruit that garnet gained its name.

There's lots more on the etymology of names of gemstones here.

Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Noemon
Member
Member # 1115

 - posted      Profile for Noemon   Email Noemon         Edit/Delete Post 
Fascinating Annie, absolutely fascinating!
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
beverly
Member
Member # 6246

 - posted      Profile for beverly   Email beverly         Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, Jon Boy, that looks a lot more like what I was looking for. The price is right too. Thanks!
Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ryuko
Member
Member # 5125

 - posted      Profile for Ryuko   Email Ryuko         Edit/Delete Post 
Etymological dictionaries... (drools)
Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Noemon
Member
Member # 1115

 - posted      Profile for Noemon   Email Noemon         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Sanskrit root gar, "transport", became in Greek gerôn, "old man" and in Latin granum, "seed". From there came the adjective granatus, "having many grains", and granatum: "pomegranate", which has red seeds. It is by comparison with the fruit that garnet gained its name.
I was telling C about this last night, when it struck me--"hey, pome, like the french word for apple! I wonder if pome originally just meant fruit or something, and a pomegranate literally means a many seeded fruit". So I looked it up. Yep!

[Middle English pome granate, from Old French pome grenate : pome, apple; see pome + grenate, having many seeds (from Latin grntus, from grnum, grain, seed. See g-no- in Indo-European Roots).]

So, pomegranate=apple with many seeds.

and then, looking up "pome"

[Middle English, from Old French, apple, fruit, from Vulgar Latin *pma, from neuter pl. of Late Latin pmum, from Latin, fruit.]

So, pomegranate actually = fruit with many seeds.

Very cool!

(all etymological stuff in this post courtesy of dictionary.com)

Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jon Boy
Member
Member # 4284

 - posted      Profile for Jon Boy           Edit/Delete Post 
eliminate, v.

[f. L. eliminat- ppl. stem of eliminare to thrust out of doors, expel, f. e out of + limen, limin-is, threshold.]

So when your mom tells you to play outside, she's eliminating you.

[ March 04, 2004, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]

Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Noemon
Member
Member # 1115

 - posted      Profile for Noemon   Email Noemon         Edit/Delete Post 
Isn't it interesting that "varlet" and "yeoman" started out meaning basically the same thing, but that "varlet" evolved to have a negative connotation, while "yeoman" evolved to have a positive one?

Well, I thought it was interesting!

Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2