posted
I ran into one of my students this afternoon and she stopped to ask me about our next FCCLA (formerly known as Future Homemakers of America) meeting. We chatted for a moment about graduation and then I brought up prom. The conversation followed something along these lines:
Me: So when is prom? Ceci: May 15 Me: Do you have a date yet? Ceci: Well, Yuliana said that she would go with me. Me: That will be fun- I used to go to dances with my friends all the time. Ceci: Actually, I'm not sure. She told me that Shortie asked her too and I don't think she's decided who she's going with [Shortie is one of the most popular girls in our school and everyone is well aware of the fact that she is gay.] Me: (look of dawning comprehension)Ceci, how is it that I didn't know this about you? [I coined this useful and all-purpose phrase on my mission] Ceci: You didn't know? Everyone knows. Man miss, all the girls in FCCLA are. Me: Even Ana? [our President who has a boyfriend] Ceci: oh yeah. she's bi- come on, you really didn't know? Me: nope, no clue! Ceci: yep- well, I've got to go.
I had wondered what happened with FCCLA. We had 50 members at the beginning of the year which dropped drasticaly to a group of about 12 around Thanksgiving.
I am glad that my students feel free to talk to me about this. I feel my role as teacher is to make sure that my students have someone whom they can talk to without judgement or criticism- I think they get enough of that from home and friends.
posted
Be happy for them. They've come to terms with their sexuality. Treat them as you would any heterosexual people -- most of the time, sex and relationships aren't relevant at all, but if a situation comes up where you need to make mention of one or the other, almost all the time gender has nothing to do with it. Just give normal good advice.
posted
What kind of reaction are you thinking of making? It sounds that you want to continue being supportive of your students.
At the very least, you shouldn't make any negative changes in your behavior at the club meetings, or Ceci might get the impression that you disapprove. You'd lose trust.
But it doesn't sound like you're intending to make negative behavior changes. It also sounds like being lesbian is reasonably well accepted/tolerated at your school if one of the most popular girls is gay.
And if you're concerned about the # of students in your club dropping, it's probably a pretty similar drop in all clubs. Especially if you used to have any sort of free food in the beginning and don't anymore. People get busy later in the semester, and it's easy to make up excuses to keep missing things.
Posts: 1892 | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Its pretty understandable, really. Unless someone mentions a relationship or one is noticed (as you noticed with the leader), sexuality isn't something that particularly stands out to be noticed (dirty jokes notwithstanding, which likely would not be uttered in the presence of a teacher ).
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, they probably haven't all known. In my beliefs about sexuality, it's not an accident that many of them have discovered it since knowing this very popular girl who is.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm suprised because two of the four courses that I teach naturally lead to discussions about sexuality and dating. It's a topic I hear about almost every day from my students. (add that to the fact that this is high school...it's a common topic in general)
So because one person who is naturally gregarious and popular is very open about her sexuality, others will follow suite?
Posts: 862 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
It's possible, though a great many homosexuals are homosexual without choice -- be careful you don't fall into the rather idiotic trap of declaring that homosexuality's a preference rather than a choice, and thereby sinful, and thus deserving of illegal status.
In my experience, it's not difficult for women to be attracted to each other -- what comedian said that if you give two guys enough beer, they'll eventually beat the crap out of each other; and if you give two girls half a cocktail, they'll be sleeping with each other within the hour? And as society grows more and more accepting of homosexuals, no doubt many women will feel free to be openly homosexual or bisexual. Most of this probably is probably more due to, in my experience, openness and fun-loving than weak-spined follow-the-leader peer pressure.
Good for the girls for being proud about their sexuality in a club traditionally devoted to shutting women away as housewives. Give them a smoldering kiss for me.
Posts: 641 | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
Personally, I think it's only a matter of time until all women figure out that women are far more beautiful and fun to look at than men are, and then we'll all be screwed.
Except for the men, of course.
(Couldn't help myself.)
[ April 07, 2004, 01:52 AM: Message edited by: Book ]
Posts: 2258 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
In one post, he managed to say that people holding opinions which could be born out by the evidence are idiotic, that people dedicated to creating homes are oppressed and shut in instead of keeping society together, and to insult someone who would almost undoubtedly object to the last comment.
If the gay threads have been civil, it is because he has been absent.
quote: in a club traditionally devoted to shutting women away as housewives.
argh! FCCLA is *NOT* about shutting women away as housewives. The actual title: Family, Career, Community Leaders of America. It is a student organization that promotes strengthing the family (which is not the same as being a housewife), developing leadership skills and encouraging students to make a difference in their community.
Just to clarify, the members of FCCLA are *not* all female. We have two guys active in the afterschool portion of this club- on the state level- the boys are more numerous than the girls.
Posts: 862 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
you really don't need to DO anything, do you? I mean, carry on as if you would the day before she told you this. It doesn't really change anything does it?
(although it makes me wonder if they are really setting you up in a practical joke -- I don't know how big the school is, but you make it sound like there are an awful lot of lesbians in proportion to the general population)
It is possible that it's a practical joke. I didn't even think about that. hrmm...
My school has about 3,000 students and I'm talking about a group of 12.
We are meeting this afternoon. I don't plan on probing, but I'll be observant & I'll try a little harder to listen in on the spanish conversations
Really, my question is: what is your personal reaction to news about someone's lifestyle? I'm not looking for the pc response, just what are your thoughts?
Me personally, I was amazed that my jaw didn't fall to the ground, and I'm sure I looked a little shocked. However, after I walked away my next thoughts were...ha. I'm the adivisor of the defacto gay and lesbian club and I didn't even realize it. hehe.
Posts: 862 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I had a crush on my AP History professor. For a high school teacher I'm sure it's just one of those things you have to ignore.
And I do think sexual preference is a choice for many. But I've mentioned before the disparity between gay men (10%) and Lesbians (like 3%). It's possible there is another 7% who wouldn't think of it without social sanction. Or maybe the gay men are fluffing their number. (No OOC please)
The problem with acquiring an accurate statistic is obvious. As long as children keep being born to straight couples, there will be children pressured to be straight. So we need to sterilize all the straights. (In the spirit of Daedalus' post).
Anyway, there could be this 7% swing or it could just be modeling after the popular kid.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
To clarify: What is your reaction to any news that may not fit with your personal moral code?
Not just finding out that someone's gay, how about a pregnant teenager, or a high school student who is getting married, cheating on finals, etc?
Posts: 862 | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'd be surprised if there were fewer than 100 homosexual students at her school.
That 12 came together in a club isn't surprising.
It would be easy enough to do a "think through" of pooka's idea that people are more likely to choose homosexuality if exposed to a popular homosexual person -- are the ones in the club the sort to be followers of this popular person, not just members of her group but followers? Popular people have them, typically. If not, have this girl's followers changed sexuality (you might not know, of course, but if there are boyfriends known of its probably unlikely)?
If the followers aren't changing sexuality for the popular girl I don't think its too likely that this group is.
This is all assuming its not a joke (and of course, assuming its not a joke is probably the safest course -- at worst a situation might come up and you'd be laughed at briefly. If you assume its a joke, someone might get very hurt, emotionally).
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
12 students out of 300 does not sound unusual, and it doesn't seem odd they would come together. Coming out Pregnant teen HS'er gettng married cheating on a final
I view these all differently , and would react differently. I would be supportive of the gay teen and help her any way I can. Pregnant teen- again, supportive, do whatever I could though I could not be supportive if she got an abortion. I would quietly back off then. Getting married in HS- I would try to talk her out of it, but in the end realise it's their choice. Cheating on a final, that I would report, as I am highly opposed to that.
Posts: 2711 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
You are a public school teacher. This has nothing to do with your moral code, except for the option to resign from a particular position. While in discussions that are not in the classroom you have a little leeway in talking about your personal positions, for the most part you are to keep them to yourself. You are acting as a representative of your local government, and as such bear a responsibility to not attempt to make, suggest, or otherwise influence your charges to conform to your particular morals. You may support students, you may offer basic advice to students, but you may not condemn students or their practices in your role as teacher except as those practices are illegal (and even then, its probably not a good idea). If a student gets pregnant, you help her through her pregnancy. If a student is getting married, you congratulate her and wish her happiness. If a student is cheating on a final, you punish the student in accordance with the school policies. If a student is cheating in a relationship the safest path is to leave well enough alone, though general advice such as "don't hurt people you love" should be okay.
This particularly applies to religious expression, as it is one of the types of expression the government, and thus you, is most strongly forbade from engaging in.
If you're not a public school teacher, the above is much more flexible. The best course is to consult the school on their policy towards personal religious and other attitudes being taught to students.
posted
Fugu, don't lecture. It's pretty clear what she's going to do.
What about the larger question? For you, say, how do you react when, oh, your grandfather starts saying horribly rascist remarks. What do you do?
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
She asked, in a very specific context about being a teacher having to deal with these situations. I gave an answer which I feel quite strongly about.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm curious if anyone thinks there may be an age at which a person is too young to really know if they are homosexual. Anyone can experiment with it if they want to, but at that young age, when their bodies and sex drives are so new, should kids really be encouraged to channel themselves into sexual niches?
Incidentally, I just found out that a girl I know recently got involved in a lesbian relationship despite not actually being a lesbian, or even being particularly bisexual. It was one of those relationships that you just stumble into, wondering why you're letting it move so quickly, until suddenly, you're picking out houses together. She's not even sexually attracted to her girlfriend, and she's kind of conflicted about it.
So I'm pretty sure it is possible, particularly for someone of high school age, to get involved in a homosexual relationship, and declare oneself as a homosexual, without really having any of the same feelings that have driven homosexuals in the past to fight against any societal norms to live the way they want to. For kids today, particularly girls, it's a great way to make a statement and be different, but it seems to me that real homosexuals who have been through the identity struggles and the self-doubt of trying to comprehend their own unexpected feelings, well ... are they raising eyebrows right now at kids who just get into it for fun? Is anyone on that side of the argument concerned that kids who behave this way will give credence to the arguments that homosexual acceptance will cause otherwise-straight children to be "converted?" Or that homosexuality will be perceived less often as an irresistible desire when modern troubled kids are able to hop in and out of it as fast as they hop in and out of each other's beds?
I knew another girl once who declared herself to be bisexual, but never once actually got involved with another girl, and seemed pretty obviously to be doing it because her older sister was a lesbian and got a lot of attention for it.
Personally, I don't see this behavior as "fun-loving". I see it as, at best, silly and pointless, and at worst, potentially self-destructive, and destructive to the interests of "real" homosexuals. Mostly, I think kids are likely to get themselves pretty screwed up if they think their sexual identity is a toy they can play around with.
Posts: 1907 | Registered: Feb 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Kids are encouraged to act out heterosexually their whole lives. Our culture, our parenting practices, and other things are filled with assumptive and influential practices that suggest to kids "hey, you're supposed to be attracted to people of the other sex".
Kids start assuming about their own sexuality in elementary school when they start going on play dates, though they do not have their own sexuality yet.
Without going into whether or not its a good thing, this happens, and that students in high school start thinking very intensely about their sexuality is hardly surprising (esp. with all the recently acquired hormones). That, combined with a natural want to belong somewhere, will lead to people choosing sexualities. Until relatively recently in the US, almost everyone chose heterosexuality or no sexuality, at least publicly. And were often encouraged in it -- particularly for the girls, this was an age to get married. We got by well enough then. I do not think people in high school noting their own homosexual or bisexual urges, or even occasionally choosing mistakenly, is going to lead to huge problems any more than it has for the past couple centuries (not the noting of other sexual urges, but the choosing mistakenly).
What can we do about it? Emphasize that sexuality is personal, that sexuality is complex, and that people come to their sexuality in their own ways. Let people know its okay not to be known one way or the other, but to be finding out which you are.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I was reacting to this, though I now realize she may have been speaking generally. I thought (and to an extent still think) she was still speaking in the "if you were me" case:
quote: To clarify: What is your reaction to any news that may not fit with your personal moral code?
Not just finding out that someone's gay, how about a pregnant teenager, or a high school student who is getting married, cheating on finals, etc?
Given how her examples focused on student-type situations in particular.
posted
I agree that the test thing should be reported, and the other stuff just depends, if you were asked for help. If you aren't asked for help, as I started out saying you can't really get personal without it being construed as harassment. Talking about your home life could be construed as harassment, if the rules are the same as for an office.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm not sure why you keep using the word harassment, pooka, though you may be using it in a different sense. Most statements in those situations would not be harassment, at least in any legal sense, but they very well might be misuse of an authority position.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:To clarify: What is your reaction to any news that may not fit with your personal moral code?
Not just finding out that someone's gay, how about a pregnant teenager, or a high school student who is getting married, cheating on finals, etc?
I've known people that have done those, and, with the exception of teenage pregnancy (since the first teenage pregnancy I knew of involved thirteen year olds, and it freaked me out), my reaction has always been "Oh." It's just not my business what moral code they choose to follow. Now, if it was a close friend or family member, then I might have a talk with them, but then again, none of those things have ever happened to anybody I knew that personally.
posted
Rat/Dog: Some gay people definitely know for as long as they remember. I know someone who, due to a strict set of morals, has never done anything with a girl or a boy beyond a hug. He's my age, and is 100% sure he's gay. He's known all his life, but never told anyone till now. I really don't think he was lying to himself when he was 10.
But sure, there are probably people on both sides who choose their Sexuality Label on exterior things, like popularity or fear. But to ignore or disbelieve someone because of their age is disrespectful.
Posts: 1892 | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
).
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
At least I understand where I make them.
