FacebookTwitter
Hatrack River Forum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » The March for Women's Lives!! (Page 2)

  This topic comprises 6 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6   
Author Topic: The March for Women's Lives!!
fugu13
Member
Member # 2859

 - posted      Profile for fugu13   Email fugu13         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
First, it is not agreed that they are murder. Second, I was disupting that women had those values before, and that the sexual revolution somehow undermined them.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Nick
Member
Member # 4311

 - posted      Profile for Nick           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I hope we can agree that this is a fact:

All women trying to get pregnant who miscarry grieve when it happens. Correct?

What if a girl of 17 years of age gets pregnant and has a abortion without a second look back. She meets the right man and she gets in a stable marriage at 25, tries to get pregnant to have a child with her husband, and has a miscarriage. She would no doubt grieve, right? Then why would she grieve for the loss of the unborn child later, during marriage, when she didn't have a problem whatsoever with doing the same thing 8 years beforehand?

Why do some women (namely pro-choice supporters)act sympathetic for women who lose their babies before birth and yet support abortion?

Posts: 4226 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Paul Goldner
Member
Member # 1910

 - posted      Profile for Paul Goldner   Email Paul Goldner         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Its all in that phrase you used, pro-choice.

Reproductive choice, in other words. The ability to choose when to bear children.

Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Scott R
Member
Member # 567

 - posted      Profile for Scott R   Email Scott R         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Most women already have that, via the two phrases 'Yes' and 'No.'
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jon Boy
Member
Member # 4284

 - posted      Profile for Jon Boy           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Reproductive choice, in other words. The ability to choose when to bear children.
And hooray for birth control for making that possible.
Posts: 9944 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ak
Member
Member # 90

 - posted      Profile for ak   Email ak         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The very first day in office, Bush signed an executive order yanking funding from programs teaching women's health information worldwide. Why? Because they refuse to be gagged and required not to mention abortion under any circumstances. Scientists, health professionals, and educators are understandably reluctant to be told they can only tell their clients part of the truth. We desperately need these programs for a number of reasons. Yet he did that. I feel he is an enemy of women's rights.
Posts: 2843 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dagonee
Member
Member # 5818

 - posted      Profile for Dagonee           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
And some taxpayers are understandably reluctant to pay for the expansion of abortion beyond its current borders.

Dagonee

Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Paul Goldner
Member
Member # 1910

 - posted      Profile for Paul Goldner   Email Paul Goldner         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Would it be better if people didn't have sex until they are ready to have children? Possibly. I'm not convinced that sex outside of those circumstances is a "bad thing."

For practical purposes, did birth control, such as condoms, make it possible for women in particular to choose when to have children?

Yup, sure did.

Yes and no are all well and good, but historically, pretty crummy at results.

Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Belle
Member
Member # 2314

 - posted      Profile for Belle   Email Belle         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
*loves Scott and Jon Boy*
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Belle
Member
Member # 2314

 - posted      Profile for Belle   Email Belle         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I would love to see stats on how many people think it's appropriate for tax dollars to pay for abortion services.

I think even a lot of pro-choicers think it's wrong.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the idea that I need the availability of a surgical procedure to make me equal to a man. [Confused]

Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
fugu13
Member
Member # 2859

 - posted      Profile for fugu13   Email fugu13         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In none of the programs Bush suspended funding for did tax dollars go to abortion. The programs spent monies acquired through donations on teaching about abortion, all tax dollars went to contraceptive information.

Clearly Bush was helping make abortions unnecessary by cutting off information about contraceptives.

[ April 25, 2004, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: fugu13 ]

Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rappin' Ronnie Reagan
Member
Member # 5626

 - posted      Profile for Rappin' Ronnie Reagan   Email Rappin' Ronnie Reagan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
*loves fugu and ak*
Posts: 1658 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Paul Goldner
Member
Member # 1910

 - posted      Profile for Paul Goldner   Email Paul Goldner         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Belle-
I can't help you with that particular question mark very well, but its not just legal abortion, its the entire idea that women can have sex and walk away from the man at some point following the sex, which only happened with the availability of birth control.

Now, as far as I know, you think sex outside of marriage is immoral, which is fine... but if you think inside that box, you won't see a problem. If you try to think outside it, you should be able to realize the dramatic differences, not only in sexual options, but in what those sexual options meant. Only part of it was the attitude that men and women shouldn't be employed in the same location, which is a perfectly logical and rational, and probably moral, thing to do in the circumstance where pregnancy can't be prevented.

Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jon Boy
Member
Member # 4284

 - posted      Profile for Jon Boy           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Pregnancy is always preventable.
Posts: 9944 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Paul Goldner
Member
Member # 1910

 - posted      Profile for Paul Goldner   Email Paul Goldner         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, historically, that seems to be a false statement.

Look, we can argue the morality of sex before marriage all we want, and we're not going to agree, because I don't see any compelling evidence that it ISN"T moral. I've chosen to wait, because that works best for me. Does it work best for everyone? No, no it does not.

If you want to argue that people shouldn't have sex outside of marriage, thats fine with me, but it has no practical value, because that argument has been around, and failing, for 2000 years. So, what say we find BETTER ways of preventing pregnancy that don't involve teh subjugation of women, what?

Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jon Boy
Member
Member # 4284

 - posted      Profile for Jon Boy           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
And before anyone can say, "Well, what about rape?" I'll just go ahead and say that that's an exception.

quote:
Well, historically, that seems to be a false statement.
I'm not talking about history. I'm talking about now.
quote:
Look, we can argue the morality of sex before marriage all we want . . .
What? Who said anything about the morality of sex before marriage?
quote:
So, what say we find BETTER ways of preventing pregnancy that don't involve teh subjugation of women, what?
I agree. Birth control seems to work well, wouldn't you say?

[ April 25, 2004, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]

Posts: 9944 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
fugu13
Member
Member # 2859

 - posted      Profile for fugu13   Email fugu13         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes, if you don't have sex. However, married couples have sex, and they're a large part of the problem, for instance in third world countries. Many of them do not have easy access to or good knowledge of birth control, but even if they did there would still be pregnancies. Are those pregnancies preventable? Sure, if you expect a married couple to not have sex. And what about married couples that consider birth control immoral? Granted they probably consider abortions immoral too, but who knows.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Scott R
Member
Member # 567

 - posted      Profile for Scott R   Email Scott R         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm not clear on how promoting abstinence is promoting the subjugation of women.

Just as I'm still not clear on how abortion rights allow American women equality.

Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Paul Goldner
Member
Member # 1910

 - posted      Profile for Paul Goldner   Email Paul Goldner         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You did.

The argument that "all pregnancy is preventable" is predicated on people not having sex outside of circumstances where they want to be pregnant, otherwise the argument has no logical backing and fails before it gets off the ground.

I tend to think history is a fairly reasonable guide to how people will act. Since, historically, pregnancy has NOT been preventable by the means advocated by your argument, I suggest that humans are not capable of preventing all unwanted pregnancies within the guidelines of "all pregnancy is preventable"

Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Paul Goldner
Member
Member # 1910

 - posted      Profile for Paul Goldner   Email Paul Goldner         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"I agree. Birth control seems to work well, wouldn't you say?"

Ahh, I see you edited after my response.

Yes, yes, In fact, I would say this.

Given thats what my post ABOVE says...

Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Dagonee
Member
Member # 5818

 - posted      Profile for Dagonee           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
In none of the programs Bush suspended funding for did tax dollars go to abortion. The programs spent monies acquired through donations on teaching about abortion, all tax dollars went to contraceptive information.

Clearly Bush was helping make abortions unnecessary by cutting off information about contraceptives.

I have an annual budget of $10,000. I spend $2,500 of that in use X. I spend $7,500 on use Y.

If you don't want to contribute any money to use X, it doesn't do any good to say the money you donate goes to use Y, when that money clearly frees up other money for use X.

Dagonee

Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ak
Member
Member # 90

 - posted      Profile for ak   Email ak         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What kills me is that people who are against abortion ought to be FOR the widespread dissemination of reproductive information and the free availability of birth control, yet they gut programs which teach about these things, because the teachers and educators understandably will not agree to gag rules about never mentioning abortion, even in cases where the health of the mother is at great risk.
Posts: 2843 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jon Boy
Member
Member # 4284

 - posted      Profile for Jon Boy           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
You did.
Don't put words in my mouth.
quote:
The argument that "all pregnancy is preventable" is predicated on people not having sex outside of circumstances where they want to be pregnant, otherwise the argument has no logical backing and fails before it gets off the ground.
But isn't that what "reproductive rights" is? The freedom to choose when to have children? You don't have to be married to decide to have children. If you choose not to have children, there are options.
quote:
I tend to think history is a fairly reasonable guide to how people will act. Since, historically, pregnancy has NOT been preventable by the means advocated by your argument, I suggest that humans are not capable of preventing all unwanted pregnancies within the guidelines of "all pregnancy is preventable"
And historically, birth control wasn't widely available. Thus, history is not always a reliable guide for present actions.

[ April 25, 2004, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]

Posts: 9944 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Paul Goldner
Member
Member # 1910

 - posted      Profile for Paul Goldner   Email Paul Goldner         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Exactly, ak.
If we can make birth control 100% effective, there is no reason for abortion. Win win situation! People can have sex if they choose, and no abortions need to be performed, meaning no murder in the eyes of those believing embryo's to be people.

Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Hobbes
Member
Member # 433

 - posted      Profile for Hobbes   Email Hobbes         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I know of no one who thinks that abortion is a good thing. All the pro-choice people Iíve heard speak say that they acknowledge that abortion is a very terrible procedure, they just donít feel it should be legalized. So I donít think we have to establish common ground on abortion being a very bad thing, which is normally where these discussions end up going. What we have to do is draw a line.

We have to figure out when we are willing to stop those things we know to be damaging society. We have to figure out when we are willing to step and tell someone that we think that they are making the wrong choice and we will not let them ruin their life, and possible otherís.

I know exactly where my line is drawn when it comes to abortion. Iím ambiguous when it comes to the legality of abortion, though I think that anything after around first trimester shouldnít be that hard to show makes legal sense, but regardless of the legal situation, to me, every time someone gets an abortion, someone else dies, and I would break the law to save someoneís life. That means every time I vote on an abortion issue, despite the legal question, I would vote to stop abortions.

Hobbes [Smile]

Posts: 10602 | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Paul Goldner
Member
Member # 1910

 - posted      Profile for Paul Goldner   Email Paul Goldner         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Jon Boy
I strongly suggest that you go back and reread my post.

It talks about BIRTH CONTROL. You've been arguing at me like I'm advocating abortion as birth control. I'm not.

Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jon Boy
Member
Member # 4284

 - posted      Profile for Jon Boy           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Okay, Paul. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I really do agree that the best solution would be effective birth control and good education. I can accept that people are going to have sex outside of marriage. And since I really don't think that anybody wants to see abortions continue, I think the best solution is to prevent the pregnancies that would have ended in abortion. In my opinion, the pro-choice people are putting their emphasis in the wrong place.

Posts: 9944 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It's not fair to say that birth control should be used, and that this will remove the need for abortion. Aside from abstinence, there is no fool-proof method of birth control. (Well, there probably are some non-reversible methods, but you get my point...)

So it's pointless to point to the woman and say that she shouldn't get pregnant. Accidents happen. They happen to everybody. Accidental pregnancies will exist as long as people keep having sex.

Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Hobbes
Member
Member # 433

 - posted      Profile for Hobbes   Email Hobbes         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
*Whole heartidly agrees with Jon Boy*

Education is key, I agree that much more money should be put into this, people should make informed choices about when they're having sex and what they'll do to prevent pregnancy, as well as what to do if it occurs.

Hobbes [Smile]

Posts: 10602 | Registered: Oct 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I agree with Jon Boy that people should be educated about birth control. But it cannot be a complete solution, because birth control can never be 100% effective.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Jon Boy
Member
Member # 4284

 - posted      Profile for Jon Boy           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
So it's pointless to point to the woman and say that she shouldn't get pregnant. Accidents happen. They happen to everybody. Accidental pregnancies will exist as long as people keep having sex.
I'm not trying to say that it's the woman's fault or responsibility. If that's what it sounded like, I apologize. That's not what I meant. What I mean is that if a couple is in a situation where they don't want a pregnancy, there are a couple of reasonable options: (1) use birth control, cross your fingers, and be prepared for an unexpected pregnancy; or (2) if you absolutely cannot accept the possibility of a pregnancy, don't have sex. Yeah, #2 is a crappy option for most people, but it's less expensive, it won't possibly endanger your life, and it won't cause the emotional damage that an abortion could cause.

[ April 25, 2004, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Jon Boy ]

Posts: 9944 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
fugu13
Member
Member # 2859

 - posted      Profile for fugu13   Email fugu13         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I quite agree birth control education is necessary. Which is why I consider it so awful Bush cut all that funding for birth conttrol education.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr_porteiro_head
Member
Member # 4644

 - posted      Profile for mr_porteiro_head   Email mr_porteiro_head         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Jon Boy, it didn't sound like you were saying that. At least not to me. But it was an extrapolation of what you were saying that I wanted to hedge up. I pretty much agree with you. [Smile]
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Nick
Member
Member # 4311

 - posted      Profile for Nick           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thank Anne Kate. I don't agree with Bush in this instance, that's for sure. Why would he think cutting educational funding would limit accidental pregnancies?
Posts: 4226 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AvidReader
Member
Member # 6007

 - posted      Profile for AvidReader   Email AvidReader         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hypothetically, let's say government tax dollars went to fund Syrian students attending college. College is good, right? They get an education and have the ability to better themselves, both principals of our capitalistic democracy.

Now lets say all the students were being taught to hate Westerners and that blowing themselves up to kill us was a good thing. Let's say that upon reaching office, Bush pulled funding to this program.

Now, you could argue that was really mean of Bush. He's denying those children a chance to attain an education. Education is a good thing, right? To about half the country, these two scenerios are identical. Education is nice, but education that advocates the death of the helpless is just plain evil.

Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Nick
Member
Member # 4311

 - posted      Profile for Nick           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
How exactly does educating people about birth control cause death of children. I was very well educated about all kinds of birth control in high school, and I'm not pro-choice. And your analogy doesn't work. The people who learn about birth control and sex are not being indoctrinated to hate anything. They made their choice about what they believe, and I don't see how the education could have caused them to be pro-choice.
Save the "Bush is never in the wrong" routine for somebody who believes it.

Posts: 4226 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AvidReader
Member
Member # 6007

 - posted      Profile for AvidReader   Email AvidReader         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have never said "Bush is never wrong". I disagree with him on a great many subjects. I can see teaching abortion if we're very careful about it. Personally, I would prefer the money be awarded on a case-by-case basis based on content.

Teaching 'abortion is ok if the baby doesn't happen to be conveinient' is teaching murder. Teaching the procedure exists is not. Discussing the uses and implications in a culturally and religiously sensitive manner doesn't bother me. Saying "And if the pills fail you can always abort" does.

Posts: 2283 | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rappin' Ronnie Reagan
Member
Member # 5626

 - posted      Profile for Rappin' Ronnie Reagan   Email Rappin' Ronnie Reagan         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Where did you get that they're saying that?
Posts: 1658 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
fugu13
Member
Member # 2859

 - posted      Profile for fugu13   Email fugu13         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
As none of the tax dollars Bush cut went to teaching about abortion, its sort of a moot point.

He only cut birth control dollars.

Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Nick
Member
Member # 4311

 - posted      Profile for Nick           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Teaching 'abortion is ok if the baby doesn't happen to be conveinient' is teaching murder. Teaching the procedure exists is not.
I'm not saying you said Bush is never wrong, but you seem to defend Bush in every thread he is bashed in.

Who said that they teach abortion is right?

Posts: 4226 | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bob the Lawyer
Member
Member # 3278

 - posted      Profile for Bob the Lawyer   Email Bob the Lawyer         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Looks like this should have been called The Loiter for Women's Lives.

That, and did anyone else find it mildly amusing that they were having this "march" underneath a giant phallus?

Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Belle
Member
Member # 2314

 - posted      Profile for Belle   Email Belle         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
These discussions don't come down to whether or not we agree abortion is a bad thing or not - they come down to the question "Is a woman's desire not to be inconvenienced by a pregnancy she did not prevent worth more than the life of the baby she's carrying?"

Some people think yes.

Some of us think your right to live as you wish to does not trump the right of someone to LIVE.

Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
John L
Member
Member # 6005

 - posted      Profile for John L           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
That, and did anyone else find it mildly amusing that they were having this "march" underneath a giant phallus?
I thought that's what drew them together.
Posts: 779 | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BannaOj
Member
Member # 3206

 - posted      Profile for BannaOj   Email BannaOj         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Kasie I'm glad you enjoyed your march!

AJ

Posts: 11264 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Storm Saxon
Member
Member # 3101

 - posted      Profile for Storm Saxon           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I hate you all.

Damn smurfs. [Mad]

Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Beren One Hand
Member
Member # 3403

 - posted      Profile for Beren One Hand           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"Is a woman's desire not to be inconvenienced by a pregnancy she did not prevent worth more than the life of the baby she's carrying?"

It all comes down to recognizing that every act has a consequence and whether people are willing to accept the consequences of their actions.

Having said that, I think our current system is not doing a good job of holding fathers responsible for unwanted pregnancies. I can see (and somewhat agree with) the feminist argument from that angle. If women are always stuck with the chore of raising an unwanted child, of course that is a violation of women's rights.

Posts: 4116 | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
aspectre
Member
Member # 2222

 - posted      Profile for aspectre           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"THERE IS NO CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO PRIVACY."

Amendment IX: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people


" Let me try to illuminate how livid, and hurt, and outraged I am.
'Today, I was at the Klan march, where we celebrated the inherent superiority of the white race!
' "

You have bragged about going on a family vacation to the 1915 birthplace of the modern Klu Klux Klan, Stone Mountain, bought in 1958 to be completed for the same reason as the Confederate battleflag was placed on the Georgia state flag in 1956: to show the state government's opposition to desegregation.

"You realize, that you a celebrating something that a lot of people consider to be a travesty, murder, something too horrific to even contemplate, and you are celebrating it and wondering why some of us are upset?"

You were the one who advocated murder of innocents: cutting off humanitarian food shipments to people who were being starved to death in a longterm famine (in many ways, induced) worsened by the Taleban to consolidate their political hold on Afghanistan.

"I hate to speak for the Cards..."

Simple solution: don't.

[ April 26, 2004, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: aspectre ]

Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
fallow
Member
Member # 6268

 - posted      Profile for fallow   Email fallow         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Beren,

I think it goes a bit deeper than that (your last post).

Fallow

Posts: 3061 | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kasie H
Member
Member # 2120

 - posted      Profile for Kasie H   Email Kasie H         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks, Banna [Smile]

Some of you are going to hate me for saying this, and I know some of you are livid that I had a great time at this March (I'm sorry, Belle [Frown] )....but I'm going to be honest, I just don't care.

I always used to get worked up and angry when people had these discussions on Hatrack. I felt they were attacking me personally, and since Hatrack is so overwhelmingly pro-life, I felt really alone. Part of me posting these pictures was defiance -- say what you want.

I am pro-choice. I am proud to be pro-choice. And there are millions of other women just like me. YES!

So say what you want. Believe what you want. It doesn't hurt me, bother me, or even irritate me. I'm not going to change you, and you're not going to change me.

I'm happy you have found strength of convinction. Because I have finally found mine.

So there. [Big Grin]

[ April 26, 2004, 07:12 AM: Message edited by: Kasie H ]

Posts: 1784 | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Scott R
Member
Member # 567

 - posted      Profile for Scott R   Email Scott R         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
[quote]Having said that, I think our current system is not doing a good job of holding fathers responsible for unwanted pregnancies. I can see (and somewhat agree with) the feminist argument from that angle. If women are always stuck with the chore of raising an unwanted child, of course that is a violation of women's rights.
[\quote]

If I get a girl pregnant, I have no choice in whether or not she carries the baby to term. I can only hope she values the life of the innocent as much as I do.

After the child is born, if we are not married, I have no practical rights to have custody of the child. If I pick him up from school and take him home, for example, it is conceivable that I could be prosecuted for parental kidnapping. If we do marry, then divorce, the possibility of me getting custody of my child are virtually nil, no matter how fit a parent I am.

Inequality? Oh, yeah.

Deadbeat dads should be made to pay-- but good fathers are not allowed to be good fathers for the simple fact that they lack the boobies.

:pet peeve:

Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 6 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Codeô is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2