quote:WASHINGTON - As many a dog owner will attest, our furry friends are listening. Now, for the doubters, there is scientific proof they understand much of what they hear.
German researchers have found a border collie named Rico who understands more than 200 words and can learn new ones as quickly as many children.
Patti Strand, an American Kennel Club board member, called the report "good news for those of us who talk to our dogs."
"Like parents of toddlers, we learned long ago the importance of spelling key words like bath, pill or vet when speaking in front of our dogs," Strand said. "Thanks to the researchers who've proven that people who talk to their dogs are cutting-edge communicators, not just a bunch of eccentrics."
The researchers found that Rico knows the names of dozens of play toys and can find the one called for by his owner. That is a vocabulary size about the same as apes, dolphins and parrots trained to understand words, the researchers say.
Rico can even take the next step, figuring out what a new word means.
posted
Yeay! I'm not sure that my dog can understand *that* many words, but I know that he understands a lot, and learns new ones. As I told a group in chat a few nights ago, I accidently taught him the word "smoke." Now, instead of asking him if he needs to go out, I can say, "Do you want to smoke?" and he runs to the door.
quote: Now, instead of asking him if he needs to go out, I can say, "Do you want to smoke?" and he runs to the door.
Well, seems to me there's pretty good evidence here that he's also processing the content of the anti-cigarette ads on TV!
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posted
Well, I caught my dog surfing the Internet the other month (apparently no one knew...), and a week ago, we got all these dog toys via UPS. She had ordered them using a credit card application she received in the mail in January. And now, I can't return any of the toys, because...
(Any one know the answer?)
Because they've got DOG SPIT all over them!
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quote:"Like parents of toddlers, we learned long ago the importance of spelling key words like bath, pill or vet when speaking in front of our dogs," Strand said.
That doesn't help in our house, because my older dog can often tell, not WHAT we are spelling, but THAT we are spelling out a word, and therefore are talking about something we want to keep hidden from her. So she gets all excited anyway.
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Once my dog realized what "walk" meant, my parents started spelling it. Soon she learned what "W-A-L-K" means, what a "W" is, and also that run and jog are essentially the same, except that she doesn't have to pull so hard on the leash.
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"...I smoke outside..." "...my dog...I accidently taught him the word 'smoke'. Now, instead of asking him if he needs to go out, I can say, "Do you want to smoke?" and he runs to the door."
Because I pretty much set my own work hours, I frequently helped out some working-couple friends by providing a few hours of free daycare for their toddler (barely when I first started) when their schedules didn't mesh.
Absolute babe magnet: strawberry blond hair, large hazel-with-emerald eyes, light-sprinkling of freckles, and long long eyelashes.
So after the handoff from his mom at a mutually convenient outdoor coffee bar -- where he'd get a LOT of smiling "how are you today"s from the women especially, both workers and customers -- we'd head down to the beach. After the first time -- when he attracted many many "hello"s from women strangers -- I began signalling that we were leaving the coffee bar to head to the beach with "Let's go pick up some chicks."
Then one day his mother dropped him off, mentioning that he'd gotten really cranky the day before. Apparently, he'd said his first real sentence -- ie beyond "I want baba (bottle)", etc -- and was frustrated that mommy didn't understand what he meant. Fortunately, one of the regular customers at a nearby table explained before I had to.
Yep, "Let's go pick up some chicks." had become his way of saying that he wanted to go to the beach. He continued to use the phrase for the next couple of years, cuz it would always make the adults around him break out into a big smile.
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To me this is kinda like farmgirl's usless research thing about females being more horny when they are most fertile. Yes we needed the research to "prove" it but any one who has been around dogs for any length of time already knew that. And for crying out loud have they ever looked at the intelligence guide dogs exhibit in situations that they've never been "trained" for persay?
My own first dog Splash, an Australian Shepherd was trained in scent discrimination. This means that in a pile of leather and metal articles, she could pick up the one I had rubbed my scent on. I had a friend over and was showing her off. I had him place the scent article, while the dogs back was turned and she was watching me so she couldn't possibly see him. Anyway she did the first one without any difficulty. I wasn't watching Anthony, and he (I thought) put the second one out, and said send her again. So she went out, walked around the pile, sniffing very carefully several times. She picked up one (which was the number that had been used the time before this time, you have to let the articles air out betwen practices so it probably had a very faint scent) and dropped it, turned around and looked at me, with a "what am I supposed to do now" expression. She *knew* the right article wasn't out there, and she wasn't supposed to bring back a wrong one, but also that she wasn't supposed to come back with nothing either. Until that moment I didn't know it wasn't out there, but I believed her, and I turned to Anthony and said, "Where is it?" He was amazed. He'd had it behind his back the whole time. Now it isn't high order intelligence, but she came up with an intelligent solution and a way to communicate with me, without breaking any of the specific rules she knew applied to that situation.
I don't know the exact number of words my current dogs know. probably at least 50 words or phrases or commands. I know Ciara picks up on them faster than Jake. But they are also capable of understanding nuance with only one word changed. If I ask "do you want to go for a run" Ciara goes bounding for joy because she loves to run, but Jake goes and hides in his crate because he hates it even though it is good for him. If I ask "do you want to go for a ride?" They know it is the car and are both happy. I really don't talk to them probably as much as I did to Splash, but they read a lot from my body language. There are also different training philosophies that have a lot to do with how the dog will select or not select objects as well. You can train a generic "take it" or "fetch" which means take what ever is in front of you, and many people don't bother training for specific object names. It doesn't matter what you point the dog at be it dumbell or clip board they are supposed to bring it back to you. This is also a sign of intelligence, the same command applies to multiple objects and they are able to readson and apply it even to an object they've never seen before.
In showing in breed physical cues are everything. even if you wouldn't consider it a "language" If Jake is standing posed in front of me. if I barely tap my right foot, he will move his rear leg on that side (actually his left hind leg) back, same for the other side. There are loads of little cues those handlers are giving those dogs in Westminster, but it is like with formal dressage in horses, an observer isn't supposed to see the cues. Is communication occuring? Absolutely!
I would also say that herding breeds like border collies and corgis are more into the situational awareness/ intelligent disobedience than other breeds. (though the hunting people might disagree with me) This is because they were used to control another unpredictable animal like sheep or cows. The handler would tell the dog where he wanted the sheep to go, and it was up to the dog to get them there the way they thought best. As a result while they can be trained easily they can also ask lots more questions during the training then your Golden Retriever will. (Goldens are some of the top obedience dogs in the world because they do the precise formal obedience to please the owner and they are dumb, they do what they are told without asking questions and don't care about mindless repetition because they don't have a mind.)(yes, I'm biased.)
Border collies are also some of the top obedience dogs in the world but for an entirely different reason. Obedience is their JOB and they have to have a job, owner or no and if you don't give them one they will go crazy looking for one to do. The other breed that is always in the most "intelligent" and top obedience lists are your Poodles, and they are halfway in between. They are more of their own dog and not quite as dependent on humans, than either the borders or the goldens. They have a wicked sense of humor, and are perfectly ok with manipulating their owners so deftly that the uninformed owner never knows that they are doing exactly what the dog wants. I'd actually put most of your herding breeds more like Poodles in that regard. Border collies have the OCD of the dog world and as a result are less likely to be manipulative of their owners, because it never crosses their mind that it might be something to do, since their JOB is to work for people.
posted
AJ, that was really interesting. Now you've got me wondering how many words my dog knows. Just because I'm curious - do you have an opinion on fox terriers?
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I'm not a "terrier" specialist. In general they have feisty personalities. I would expect they would be less likely to learn words, simply because they are less dependent on humans and not is interested in manipulating others as they are at doing their own thing.
They are often off exploring their own interests and looking for a good time. They were initialy used for hunting vermin and therefore have a strong prey drive. I would imagine they would learn words relating to food fastest (most dogs do) and if you convince them that an activity is fun, they will be more than happy to want to learn the words involved. If they keep hearing a word gives them some advantage then they would probably pick it up rapidly.
Another thing way that I communicate with my dogs is simply by clearing my throat. Ah-hem, has a variety of different meanings both positive and negative, and they know the difference between Drop everything cause you are in trouble and hey I'd like a bit of your attention.
When I ride my bike with the dogs Ciara is always running out in front of the bike on a Flexi-lead. I am able to communicate with her just using ah- ahs and uh-uhs and A-hems which way she is supposed to turn. I couldn't tell you if I do the same thing every time or not, but whatever I do she generally understands which way she is supposed to go at any given corner. I thought about teaching Gee and Haw like the sled dogs, but what we have is working so what's the point?
If my parents' dog is any example, it is affectionate, hyperactive, ADD, and has no sense of guilt in terms of being caught when being disobedient (which is often).
Essentially, very cute, yappy, sneaky, affectionate sociopaths.
Really. I have met cats with more developed guilt responses than my parents' dog. That doesn't mean he's the "just as soon kill you as look at you" type.
He's the "just as soon take your sandwich while you're looking the other way" type.
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posted
ahh now we are getting into the interesting stuff.
What exactly do your parents do to punish him? I would bet that he has outsmarted them, because they haven't figured out a way to cause something so unpleasant to happen to him that it is a deterrent.
For example, I would bet if you put a sandwich on the table and covered it in moustraps and one snapped on his paw, he would be offended first. How dare that thing go against my wishes. Then he'd figure out how to nudge them over so that they don't go off or to spring them all without hurting himself and then he'd eat the sandwich.
He's figured out ways to get what he wants, and it doesn't sound like it would be any advantage to him to learn a large vocabulary of words so I doubt he would though intelligence wise I'm sure he could.
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Guilt is something that has to be taught, for the most part to both animals and children. Some sensitive souls like Irish wolfhounds (where's Lead?) pick up on the every nuance quite quickly. Others need constant reinforcment of who the pack leader is.
For example. Steve and Jake will always have somewhat of a battle for being the dominant male in the household. Steve's place is now firmly intrenched as the dominant one, but Jake will test his limits from time to time, in little sneaky ways. If Steve doesn't catch the test, then Jake gets more and more beligerent, until they have a "session" (also known in dog circles as a "come to Jesus meeting") and the dominance is re-established.
A "session" doesn't generally involve any sort of beating of the animal lest you wonder. What it does involve is going back to the primitive part of their brains, and teaching the dog that YOU are the alpha wolf. There are different methods to do this, but one of the easiest is physical incapactation. THe dog is rolled over onto its side or back (a vulnerable position) and your hand is placed firmly on its neck (and one on its body if necessary) until it stops fighting the restraints and lies still. This is exactly what would happen with an alpha wolf teaching a puppy a lesson. They have to lie still until YOU decide they can go. A simple exercise, but I bet you once the Bichon figured out you were serious, that you weren't going to scratch his belly and you weren't going to let him go, you'd have a pretty good fight on your hands for a while before he gave up.
AJ
Another option, if he's walking around with something that is "his" you take it away from him for no apparent reason, other than that you are dominant. Dogs do this all the time when they steal each others toys.
Another little thing that Steve has to do, is say if he's watching TV and comes back, Jake will have stolen his spot on the couch. Jake HAS to move and defer to Steve because steve is dominant. If he doesn't, then he's testing Steve.
some of this I already knew and I actually spent some time with the little wanker (I really do like the scoundrel) establishing dominance. Like you said, it didn't entail a beating.
So he ended up very compliant with me. It just didn't generalize to anyone else. Don't know why the parents haven't put in the time and energy changing things with him - he's almost ten years old now, but I met a bichon (thanks for the spelling correction) who was nineteen years old and didn't end up dying until it was past twenty.
The dog is looking like he could match that - he's still pretty spry and energetic. Looks and acts barely middle-aged for a dog.
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posted
Its funny, I go through the same thing with my cat. He is smart enough to know that Tom and I have different responses to different things. He is much more vocal with Tom because he has to be to get what he wants.
Another example: Cat will feel threatened or grumpy and bat or nip. When he does this to Tom, he nips and then rolls over on his back, or will continue to "play bite" as Tom ignores him. When he does this to me, he runs off as quick as can be because I yell or swat back. If I persue him, though, he will roll over and/or hide.
I would say my cat knows about five to ten words. He knows tone of voice a lot better and is really sensitive to body language, which I find amazing.
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Ok, sad but true - I have been making a list of words my dog knows. So far we're up to 25. AJ, you're totally correct about the prey instincts; he loves to chase birds, squirrels, and anything else that wanders into the yard. He doesn't go off and do his own thing very often, though. However, that's probably b/c of our two kids who play with him a lot.
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The sensitivity of dog's to human body language is amazing. Many people talk about knowing someone was bad because their dog didn't like him. One of the theorized explanations for that is that the dog's owner had intuitive bad feelings about the person, and the dog picked up on those feelings before the owner did.
After all, dogs are experts at reading the owner. People are experts at reading strangers - it's a skill learned from very early childhood. But in civilized society, people supress their intuition all too often.
quote:Steve's place is now firmly intrenched as the dominant one, but Jake will test his limits from time to time, in little sneaky ways.
We have a similar situation with our two dogs, but at a much less intense level. Our older dog, Mishka the chocolate Lab, is very peace-loving. The younger dog, Seven the black Lab/Chow mix, is more aggressive. When we first brought Seven home, in fact, we were worried that she and Mishka weren't going to get along, because Seven was so snarly and snappy toward Mishka.
We need not have worried, because Mishka knew exactly how to handle Seven.
She shunned her, as in "you are a nasty little dog and I am going to try my best to pretend you don't exist."
It turns out that the one thing Seven can't stand is being ignored.
By the next day, Seven was approaching Mishka with a much humbler attitude. "I'll be a good doggie, only play with me!" Mishka brought a rawhide bone to Seven and let her chew it for a while. Then she ran to the door, barking frantically. Seven thought that there must be someone at the door, so she dropped the rawhide, ran over to the door, and began barking her head off. Mishka went TEARING back to the rawhide, grabbed it, and ran away with it, waving it in Seven's face for good measure. That was when we knew that they were going to get along. (Mishka still does this, pretending there's someone outside, whenever she wants to distract Seven for a while. Seven has never figured out that she's faking.)
After a while, we noticed that Seven was looking to Mishka for clues on how to act, especially in new situations. I like to think that this is another reason Seven submits to Mishka's leadership: she realizes that Mish is more experienced than she is (also smarter) and knows the right thing to do. For example, Seven cannot understand many words. However, she knows that Mishka does understand. Therefore, if Mishka gets excited about something we said, Seven knows that there must me something to be excited ABOUT, and so she gets all worked up too.
Mishka is the "leader" in the relationship, but there are only a few aspects in which she asserts her leadership. One is when we are riding in the car. If there are no human passengers, Mish insists on riding shotgun. If Seven attempts to usurp the front passenger seat, Mishka sits on her and squashes her until she moves to the back. (Mishka weighs eighty pounds. Seven weighs less than fifty.)
The other aspect involves ice cream containers. Mishka will share almost every other food with her little sister, but NOT ice cream containers. Those are HERS to lick clean.
They do play a lot of sneaky head games with each other. Seven's favorite game involves going to up her sister who is peacefully chewing a stick, stealing the stick, and running off. Mishka then finds herself another stick. Seven steals that one as well. Seven doesn't want the sticks; what she wants is for Mishka to chase her.
Mishka's favorite game involves going to hide behind the dog door when we call for Seven to come inside. As Seven tears through the yard, approaching the dog door at top speed, Mishka bursts out through it, tackles her sister, and rolls her over. It's like Hobbes and Calvin. (She has done this often enough that it's amazing that Seven still comes when we call.)
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Most people who have dogs knew this, but I suppose it is comforting to know. It's that much harder to commit me to a mental institution now.
Ever since my teen years, I've spent pretty vast amounts of time around large numbers of Australian Shepards and Border Collies (frisbee, agility, family pets, etc.) I'd say the breeds are about the same intelligence wise (though Borders are bred to obey, Aussies are bred for a certain degree of independence so the training techniques and behaviors are quite different).
The most intelligent (and child-like) behavior I've seen from any of our family Aussies was from Crystal when I was about 16. Since I was pretty much a litter-mate to the family dogs (and still am), I was the person for the dogs to see about playing tug-of-war or catch. Crystal got bored of those games, took the rope bone, and disappeared to the front of the house. I figured that was that, and went back to AIM. A minute or two later, she came back without the toy, and just stared at me. So I figured I'd get the toy, and throw it a few more times. Well, look around the front of the house, no rope bone. A little more looking, it's tucked in the couch cushions. So I take the bone back to the computer room with the dog in tow, and throw it again. Dog disappears again, only to return with no rope bone. By this point I pretty much concede hide-and-seek is a valid game, and go to get the bone. Look around, it's not on the floor. Check the couch, figuring dogs could appreciate habit like the rest of us. No bone there either. So, I actually have to look for the thing again. Find it a few minutes later behind a set of curtains. This went on for another five or so rounds (my parents were watching, and found this hilarious.) The bone was never in the same place twice through the entire thing (under a chair or table, behind the couch, etc.) The game ended when I figured out Crystal had just laid down on top of the bone.
A nice little sign of intelligence, but I'm not certain the characteristic of hiding things from your owners is a trait dogs should be bred for. Crystal has gotten stubborn in her older age (she's 11 now). She refuses to come inside until you say the word treat in a sentence. Treat worked for awhile, but on occasion my parents or I would just say it, and then not pay out. So now it takes "Come inside, and I'll give you a treat" for her to move towards the door. Sad to say, the other two Aussies currently residing at my parents place aren't quite as sharp as Crystal, but they have their own personalities. (One is very nearly as obsessive-compulsive as a Border Collie. And anyone who says that Border Collies aren’t a text-book example of obsessive-compulsive disorder hasn’t spent enough time around them). Seems to make them fast learners though.
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Cool, Feyd, while I haven't owned an Border Collie (partly because of the OCD) I have owned an Aussie, glad to know I got the contrasts basically right.
My cardigan corgis are extremely intelligent, but they are a bit more laid back than the Aussies, and really much nicer housepets as a result.
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Until recently my family had an Australian Shepherd which was apparently very very neurotic. The howling in response to sirens I suspect was normal for dogs, but she had somehow developed a phobia of thunder; she would cower at the front door pleading to be let in whenever it started.
She also became unhealthily attached to me. We intended to breed her, but not the first time she came into heat--so my parents, who had stupidly not prepared a pen ahead of time put her in an old barn elsewhere on the property, and as the oldest person not working I was chosen to feed and water her. Before long she began leaping up and wrapping her paws around me, clinging to me and refusing to let me leave. She got better after release, fortunately, though she still hugged me as a sign of affection, but then I went off to college. She recognized that a car had taken me away and I hadn't come back, and soon thereafter any strange car became a threat to be driven off lest it take another packmate. (Previously she hadn't minded strange cars much.)
She died just a few years ago--sniff!--leaving behind her son, the only member of her one litter that we ended up keeping.
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