posted
I used to work for a mental hospital. I was just an IT monkey, but I frequented the wards where patients were kept for intensive treatment. The particular hospital I worked for was well known for treating eating disorders. It is also the only hospital that treats male eating disorders in the world.
So, consequently, I saw the effects of long-term anorexia and bulimia up close and personal. Some of the girls could barely walk from here to there for lack of any energy whatsoever. They also had special mealtimes where they all went to the cafeteria, and were prodded by their caretakers into eating food. I remember one girl getting praised for eating a whole salad with no dressing. It was depressing to say the least.
Anyways, after seeing all of that, and stumbling into this website, I can't help but feel bad for these girls. They've built up their world and forced out any other world view other than "I can do whatever I want because I have a mental disorder." That seems like a dangerous view for a group of people to have and to edify to one another.
It kind of reminds me of my senior year of high school. Most of you won't relate to this story, but some of you can. The idea was introduced into our senior philosophy class that all sin is forgiven for the believer so all sin is permissible (I went to a protestant christian high school). So, some of the students took it to the extreme of doing whatever they wanted (at the time I was shocked by extra-marital sex and alcohol abuse, but after going to a state college... times have changed) and not caring about the consequences. A bunch of kids got in trouble in various ways. Some got hurt (traffic related incidents) some got pregnant, and others just dropped out of their first year of college stoned out of their mind.
I just thought I'd bring this up to hatrack for any sort of discussion. I don't really have much of a point to make or a question to ask. I guess I'm just curious about your thoughts, and am really curious if anyone thinks this is a good or healthy thing for these young women.
From the site:
quote:ANOREXIA NERVOSA IS NOT A LIFESTYLE CHOICE. You will *never* hear me say that. Anyone who believes that it is is wrong. Sorry. If you are indeed anorexic, you have no control over your mind, and can not make that kind of choice over what you put into your body. You crave control, and think that by doing this you are indeed in control, but in fact, you have less control than you ever imagined. This sounds like a anti-statement, but hell, it's true. I even hate the term "ana" because it takes the edge of the seriousness of the disease - makes it conversational. Makes it the in thing. makes it okay.
posted
PS: This site is just an example of many others out there. It just happens to be the largest currently known to exist. A lot have been shut down by concerned parents and, what I think to be, responsible ISPs. If this is a growing trend, it is "alarming" (to use a CNNism) to say the least.
PPS: They also sell bracelets to "show solidarity."
posted
I have a friend I worry about being borderline anorexic. She has many of the classic characteristics of an anorexic. I believe currently, she is trying very hard to stay on the border of weight/height BMI so she doesn't sound too many alarms. But I can see how she might lose that control in later years. My friends do what we can, but none of us live near her, so we only see her once a year or so.
It's a frightening disease because it's one of the few diseases in which the sufferer has "lack of insight." One of the biggest hurdles is for the person to accept that they have this disease.
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Saying that it's not something you can control is insulting to those who have struggled with the disorder and have learned to control it. I have a very dear friend who dealt with anorexia for years and has gone through a painful fight, but come out the victor. People can "fix themselves" and do quite often.
I agree with your analogy to a lot of contemporary Christian teachings. I heard a Christian song once that said "Being good is just a fable; I just can't 'cause I'm not able."
Sounds like a self-fulfilling prophecy to me.
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
But, it's not about not eating. Trying to force a person with anerexia to eat a piece of cake is like trying to hide sharp items from someone who cuts. It's not about the obvious thing, it's the sign of a larger problem. Have some sympathy....
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't know what happens inside the site, but as far as the mission statement goes I think acceptance is an important place from which change can proceed. However, I think non-professionally moderated interaction of the mentally ill can make some worse. Helping others and sharing experience is good, but there needs to be someone there who can tell what is support and what is competition.
P.S. Annie:
quote: Saying that it's not something you can control is insulting to those who have struggled with the disorder and have learned to control it.
People can recover, but I don't think they learn to "control" the disease. I think it's when they accept that they can't control it that healing begins. Sorry to be so greeting card-esque.
posted
They can learn to act contrary to what the disease tells them to do. My friend does this. She eats because, ultimately, she loves her family and doesn't want to hurt them. I'd call that control.
Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
I find this website really disturbing. Sure, they have the little disclaimer at the front.
But then there's messages like this
quote: Okay so I went and ate like 1500 calories like an hour ago, so tomorrow I am not going to eat breakfast and then I have three hours of basketball. I don't want to eat for as long as I have to but I will have to eat dinner. I heard if you wait til night to eat then your body saves every last calorie because it thinks you're starving it, so when do you suggest I eat? PLEASE HELP, I feel like I am just ballooning up as I type this
Getting responses to this won't help people with anorexia. Neither will users with names like "lbs000" or "thighsdonttouchthankgod".
It's just perpetrating a very very dangerous mindset.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Most of the site is encouraging girls to not eat. Most of the messageboard postings related to girls being upset that they ate and asking for help to not eat again.
It also seems like, contrary to the quote I posted, most of these girls haven't really developed anorexia at all, but are trying to starve themselves so they are that thin. Is this the early stages of anorexia or what? I never really chatted with the ED docs at the hospital.
One girl's name on the messageboard is "thankgodthighsdonttouch" or something to that effect.
posted
This is curious. It's like a help group for alcoholics trying to stay alcoholics. Or teenagers who need help getting out the house to do drugs. It's insane! I can't even think of a way to counter anti-help groups! Do you send in a mole person to subtly steer these girls away? Do you flatly condemn the message the site gives out? I'm at a loss for ideas.
By the way, I don't dare open the window, so I'm just judging from what you've said. If my parents found such a site on my history they'd have a heart attack! If I found this site on a friends computer I'd be on them in a second!
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Addiction and mental disorders are so difficult to quantify.
I might be Clinically Depressed, or might just be in a funk. There isn't a hard and fast test to identify my condition.
Having said that, it's one thing to put your life on a strict routine - take a look at the "skinny actress" thread.
As to the "as easy as eating a piece of cake" garbage...alcoholism is as easy as not drinking, drug addicts can just quit by not shooting, smoking or snorting their next fix.
Eating disorders are fascinating in a strictly analytical sense in that they are entirely self-imposed and in fact created in the mind of the patient, but are no less real for that.
posted
I have heard of sites like this before. I think they are horrifying. But I agree with Teshi -- what CAN be done? Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
You can implement laws that require these sites to be shut down, but they are only feeding the problem (forgive the pun).
Girls think they gain a measure of control over themselves by starving themselves. They may think they'll look like X-super-fashion model.
To "fix" the underlying problem of insecurity with her body, the girl needs to have massive doses of reality pumped into her system and to be brutally honest, there are plenty of adult women who could use the same reality check.
And this is by no means excluding men on the subject - traditionally, eating disorders were a female problem, but the gender gap is a'closin.
Many people with anorexia have the problem of visualizing themselves in a way that one could say doesn't mirror reality. The girl whose thighs don't touch, I bet you a hundred dollars that she still views herself as fat. It's a psychiatric problem, very real, very worrying.
If you're the kind of person who doesn't believe that depression (not all depression, but clinical depression) is a disease, then I can't argue effectively with you. Anorexia kills. It's not as simple as dieting. It's an obsession that consumes them, and weighing 82 pounds is the symptom.
Posts: 1892 | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged |
I just find this website sad and alarming - it encourages and even actively helps people mantain the disease, under a guise of not glamourising anorexia.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
| IP: Logged |
P.S. I don't think I've ever felt as bad as I did when I realized I was undereating while I was pregnant. I felt like my liver was shriveling up like a raisin.
My thinking about all this is still pretty messed up. I don't know how much thinking is really a solution. Though I do think honesty is important.
What is the relationship between honesty and thinking?
posted
While on the surface it seems disturbing, I must say that their heart is close to the right place. Americans in general overindulge, when it comes to eating. We need to learn to cut back. However, half starvation is not the way.
However, I am too weak willed to cut back on my eating. When I go to college I plan to loose a lot of weight through not eating, for the lack of money that I foresee.
Posts: 262 | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
CT, it wasn't your comments that bothered me. I didn't think anything you said was caustic. And I was very glad to see you pop up in this thread, because I know you really care about not being flamatory and hurtful when you discuss a topic. Also, I figured you would have a better understanding of eating disorders, being a doctor and all.
I am really struggling with how to respond to this thread. I've spent the past half hour trying to write something, but I keep erasing it. Maybe the words will come later. Right now I've got to get down to work.
It is not about the food. It never is about the food.
Posts: 72 | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Foust: I don't say this often to people I don't know, but screw you. I feel much more like using stronger language, but I don't want to offend anyone who hasn't said something so heartless, ignorant, and sickening as your first post in this thread was. If you had any idea what being anorexic or loving someone who is anorexic is like, you would know why I'm so completely incensed by your comment.
I'm sure CT said something to this effect and then deleted it, but I'm just plain not as nice as she is.
Everyone else: In the last year of living with my roommate and friend who is anorexic, I've learned more than I ever knew about EDs. I've seen pro-ana websites before, but only representing anorexia, fasting, and purging as a valid diet option. Never a website that effectively says, "Well, we can't change this incredibly unhealthy aspect of ourselves, so lets run with it." The very idea angers and saddens me.
It's so frustrating to watch someone starve themselves without doing anything about it. To have them beg you not to make them eat and cry about it. To have someone who is completely beautiful think that they're ugly and fat and not worth anything. I'm just so relieved that my roommate has gone back into treatment that I can't even put it into words. I'm just glad that my roommate knows that her ED is unhealthy, knows that she wants to change it, and knows that it's just a part of her, and not her.
It is true that it is difficult to ever completely recover from a serious eating disorder, but the idea of not trying on purpose is saddening and will most probably eventually lead to death.
Posts: 4816 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
One thing that kind of suprised me, and maybe leads into how dangerous this site is, is the elevation of Anorexia into a gnosticish Goddess named "Ana." In some of the blogs linked off of the site, I saw several references to the "Goddess Ana" who would see them through their desire to eat. This kind of touches on that part of me that hates all things neo-pagan, but it also scares me in that they're making something spiritual out of this, and I can see that leading most people even farther astray.
posted
Not to change the topic, but it's so refreshing to see a person censor her own posts -- especially when she wasn't asked by anyone to do so. Hooray for Claudia Therese!
Kathryn H. Janitor (who now returns you to your regularly scheduled discussion)
Posts: 92 | Registered: A Long Time Ago!
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Grumble]](graemlins/grumble.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I have heard of sites like this before. I think they are horrifying. But I agree with Teshi -- what CAN be done? ![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
