I mean, there are single parent families consisting as father and children.
Oddly enough, my father was bonded to me more than my mother. My mother neglected me when I was an infant and my father and his family came and got me after my uncle called my father and told him that my mother had stopped taking care of me and I was in danger.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
No need to defend: I know you're not describing your own position, but what you're disappointed to percive in society. But the reason this makes me sad:
quote: But I would not be surprised to find out that many men feel like the most important part of being a father is the "sperm donation".
is that I did not donate any sperm to my children. So if there are people who feel this way, then I have no role as far as they are concerned.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Icarus, I think it's about how you feel and not how others feel. I don't worry about those who feel being at home with my children is a waste of my youth and an indictment of their lifestyle.
Even the notion of "biological father" is being questioned in psychiatry today because the presence of a father is of such ecological, if you will, significance.
And while I somewhat agree with PSI's position that single motherhood has been glorified at the expense of the role of fathers, I also think we could go too far in the direction of insisting that getting a father for a child is worth making a bad decision.
Anyway, I discussed this with my husband about 5 years ago, and I felt that because I wanted to get my tubes tied at 35, wouldn't it be better if he just got a vasectomy? He didn't see it that way. I guess it is normal for women to see reproduction as a phase in life, whereas men see their fertility as lasting most of their lives.
But in the scenario described, if we kept having one baby after another really close together, and we were weighing sterilization realistically, I would hope he would see that it would be safer for him to get the procedure.
P.S. There was a case in Utah where a woman agreed with her doctor to get her tubes tied during/post the delivery of her 10th child. Didn't tell the husband. Husband (after learning the truth, sometime after the procedure) takes doctor hostage. I mean, there was just so much wrong with that, it's hard to know where to begin. But it is apparently possible for the wife to exercise that option without spousal consent.
Withholding sex is not a good solution either. The couple would need to go to counseling (getting back to the original hypothetical) not just to change his mind, but to bring them both to a point of more effective communication. If no progress is made and she does get pregnant again, I would think she should get her tubes tied at the next delivery. I don't quite know what the procedure for that is.
I had a bright idea the other day- maybe in addition to the barrier method that we already use I could also try the mini-pill to see if it helps stabilize my moods. I'm still thinking about it, but I think multiple birth control methods might be a better choice than abstaining.
posted
PSI, that attitude far precedes the "Rise of the single mother" in this society. Our society has been hammering it again and again that a _mother_ ought to do much of the childrearing, period. Single mother empowerment added a new angle of attack on this point, wasn't the actual problem. Every portrayal of single motherhood I've seen showed a very difficult situation, but one that was able to be handled.
But that's just my perception.
RE: thread original topic. My dad got it done shortly after my brother was born (late 70s), which was only 20 months after I had been born. Which probably scared my parents a bit, since my dad was out on 3 month submarine tours, and my mom was student teaching in Maine, so they didn't have a ton of opportunities.
Maybe because I knew that, and fairly early on (no doubt explained to me when I was in 4th or 5th grade as to why I didn't have any more siblings), it didn't seem like a big deal. I expect to get snipped after the 2 or 3 children my fiancee and I figure on having, barring surprises.
Of course, I had one of the best fathers in the world, who impressed on me, through example, respect for authority without the fear. That's a whole separate thread though.
posted
This notion of "withholding sex" bothers me a little, although I can't really speak to the female opinion on the matter.
The term is being bandied around like it was a game or a punishment.
Frankly, if the husband is unwilling to consider the options involved and ramifications, the woman must take the matter in hand (as it were). The ten kid scenario is a case in point - unless you intend to go on welfare or have one hell of an inheritance, you won't be able to support ten kids easily, or at all in contemporary American society.
I assume the woman isn't enjoying the fact she chooses not to have sex with her husband as it's a fairly enjoyable act, unless the opinion runs that it's her obligation to provide marital favors for her husband?
quote: The ten kid scenario is a case in point - unless you intend to go on welfare or have one hell of an inheritance, you won't be able to support ten kids easily, or at all in contemporary American society.
(emphasis mine)
I assure you that there are people that are able to raise a family with ten children with nothing more than a modest single income. It's not easy, and it requires a lot of sacrifice, but it is far from impossible.
posted
1. Use no birth control, high risk of having a baby 2. Use only birth control, low risk of having a baby 3. Wife gets operation 4. Husband gets operation 5. Choose not to have sex
posted
Hey Bok! My dad was also a dolphin (served on submarine during his time in the Navy) and was also the best dad ever! (We have something in common!)
quote: The term is being bandied around like it was a game or a punishment.
It's unfortunate, but probably as pervasive as the desire for a man to remain "intact" that a wife can withold sex to get her way.
That is why this issue is confusing. Normally it is something petty like "stop playing basketball with your friends" or "find a better paying job." But where the abstinence is directly linked to the target behavior (repeated pregnancy) I guess some folks have more trouble saying witholding sex is definitely unethical.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Well I have no problem saying that witholding sex to get the man to change his mind is unethical (or, not that this happens a lot to my knolwedge, witholding sex to get the woman to change her mind). Witholding sex because you can not accept the consequences that result, that would be ethical, but if you have to "withold" sex instead of just making an agreement with your spouse to wait to have sex until a desicion is made on the issue then there's probably a problem in the relationship.
posted
May your rosy view of life continue, Hobbes. Not that I do the unethical thing, but that waiting until a thorny issue is decided would result in 9 years of abstinence. Sometimes it's necessary to just compartmentalize a problem and focus on what you like about your spouse and not what is bother you. By "you" I mean me. But the whole "never go to bed angry" thing wouldn't really work for me.
I think the issue is not whether life can be perfect and everything resolved at the end of the day (like some Star Trek episode). It's whether one let's his/her anger interfere with their ability to go about their lives. The "unethical behavior" may be a symptom, but a person conducting their lives that way probably has a lot of other problems.
Oh, and in Arab culture it is the woman who is punished with no sex.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
"Withholding sex" from women isn't as rare as you might think. Apparently one way that men express extreme discontentment or stress is by shutting down sexually. Technically the man isn't withholding, but it amounts to the same thing. They get stressed out or upset and sort of "forget" to have sex. I know, it sounds completely absurd. : D
While that might not sound as bad for a woman as it would for a man, it can be. Imagine that a man is stressed out from work, or subconciously resentful of his wife, or whatever, and seems to be shutting people out. What the woman really needs at that time is some expression of love or closeness, and it can be painful for her when the man just isn't interested.
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