quote: I challenge you to use the "search" function on this board and search "homophobe" and see how many times it actually comes up. And how many people that used the word were actually on the conservative side of the aisle. (Excluding this posts itself, I only believe one liberal poster widely known for being outrageous and who has been chastened by the mods several times has ever used the word in the last year.)
(Another interesting number is how many newbies used the word in inflammatory rhetoric)
AJ
Quoting Chad:
quote: The correct arguement would be: "Yes it has happened in the past, but not very frequently and usually by newbies who come and go" ....You can defend that. You can't really defend it never happened and then do a search and still try to defend that stance.
That is exactly the argument I MADE, I just didn't give the numbers and left it as an excercise for the reader to verify if they wished. I NEVER said it NEVER happened.
I picked "homophobe" because it was arguably the most hurtful word in the list. And I did the search before my inital post and was surprised that other than Lalo just about everyone that mentioned it was a newbie or conservative.
To continue the excercise:
quote: bigots, homophobes, religious zealots, right wingers, enemies of democracy or peace, or morons or duped into believing in God
Search word "bigots": 43 hits "bigot": 136 hits (I would expect this number to be higher because it isn't as inflammatory as the word "homophobe")
"enemies of democracy":3 hits "enemy of democracy": 2 hits "enemy of peace": 3 hits "enemies of peace": 2 hits (one is this thread)
"morons": 42 hits "moron": 202 hits (the majority of the moron-type hits are totally non-political, and more that moron drove me off the road!) "dupes, duped": 20 total and most are again non political
Those are ALL staggeringly small numbers given the amount of verbage that goes through Hatrack in a year.
quote:My point, in case some missed it, is that some board members are as guilty as OSC in their "delivery" and to keep that in mind when attacking his.
Why should the fact that other people have qeustionable deliveries be kept in mind when by people attacking his delivery? That's the part that is unclear to me and, I think, several others in this thread.
posted
Would you care to elaborate as to which board members? Because you're either saying us, in which case you've been lying about not meaning us, or you're not saying us, in which case it doesn't much matter to us and so we don't need to particularly keep it in mind, and your point is essentially pointless.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
And I apologize if my post got interpreted as being aimed at Liberals, because it never was intended as such, but was intended as I have stated repeatedly now, to show that there are posters on this board who are not higher on the "moral word usage" pole than OSC as well.
Should we care? Maybe some do not. I do. Was I wrong in pointing out in a thread bashing OSC's delivery that the delivery employed by some in bashing him or ideals he espouses in this forum are just as bad?
I guess some don't see the connection and have asked. That's fine. You've asked and I answered.
And Amka, I agree with you. Am I wrong for posting that as well?
If so, I ask, what does half the posts questioning me have to do with the topic or discussion of Amka's thread?
You want to bash Chad, start a new thread, but Amka posted this and deserves to have it be a discussion of her topic and what it relates to, not me.
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Chad, What is the definition of bash that you are using here? It's not one I'm familiar with.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote: Why should the fact that other people have qeustionable deliveries be kept in mind when by people attacking his delivery? That's the part that is unclear to me and, I think, several others in this thread.
Dagonee
Because as a poster, we don't want to be hypocrites do we?
And the simplest answer Dag I can give you is to re-read your question, and answer it yourself.
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Chad, What is the definition of hypocrite that you are using here? It's not one that I'm familiar with.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Was I wrong in pointing out in a thread bashing OSC's delivery that the delivery employed by some in bashing him or ideals he espouses in this forum are just as bad?
I already respectfully disagreed on this point with Dagonee earlier saying that I believe the "bashing" people you are referring to are generally fringe and not mainstream Hatrack. This is further collaborated by the Hatrack thread hits on the inflammatory words you, yourself gave as being generally discriptive of the "bashing" group.
quote: Chad, What is the definition of bash that you are using here? It's not one I'm familiar with.
If you need me to define "bashing" and how "bitch slapping" another poster is bashing...I have nothing more to say to you.
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
So far we've come up with ONE "liberal" name. Lalo. (And knowing Eddie he'd be proud he was that "one", but that's a different story.) Any others?
posted
Chad, My post was probably the highest profile post disgreeing with OSC's usage and the one you engaged afterwards with this tack. As such, you pretty much said I was both bashing him and being a hypocrite. I guess I'm questioning how you feel I was doing either one of these or how it would be reasonable to assume that these comments weren't directed at me.
Do you get this yet? When you say things here, they don't just go away. You don't get to say whatever you want. There are consequences to your actions. Own up to them already. Stop tying to weasel out of things and maybe you'll stop saying things that you need to weasel out of.
posted
Then if you are so concerned about the "delivery" of OSC, why aren't all the posters here crying foul over his?
And yes Dagonee, that is exactly my point, which mutes the arguments against OSC's deliveries.
The outspokenness against his deliveries by those posting here, and the silence at some of the vitrol in the deliveries in this thread towards my posts.
It really hurts the validity of "crying foul" when one is so selective of it.
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Chad you haven't been around long enough to see the outspokeness against some of OSC's deliveries. The people who were outspoken against them have often been made to feel unwelcome and as a result many are no longer here or post infrequently and rarely.
quote: Chad you haven't been around long enough to see the outspokeness against some of OSC's deliveries. The people who were outspoken against them have often been made to feel unwelcome and as a result many are no longer here or post infrequently and rarely.
AJ
Thanks to all of you in this thread for trying to make me feel the same.
quote: So this was a generic warning to people not to engage in a particular undesirable behavior that they weren't engaging in?
Again, none of the people criticizing OSC's delivery are engaging in these delivery methods.
Dagonee
They have against me, so it's valid. Their posts have proven as much. Read the responses by some of people in this thread, and then tell me they don't engage in that type of delivery or that type of vitrol.
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Then if you are so concerned about the "delivery" of OSC, why aren't all the posters here crying foul over his?
And yes Dagonee, that is exactly my point, which mutes the arguments against OSC's deliveries.
The outspokenness against his deliveries by those posting here, and the silence at some of the vitrol in the deliveries in this thread towards my posts.
It really hurts the validity of "crying foul" when one is so selective of it.
Actually, except for the Bitchslap comment, none of these strike me as particularly vitriolic.
quote: Stroman: Fair enough - I was implying that your reticence was due to ignorance.
What is it due to instead?
How about the fact that I'm not a dictionary and that blatant bashing has occurred on this thread directed at me, DIRECTLY.
And that I am only one person trying to respond to the bashing, questioning attacks of multiple people at once.
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Chad, this is not bashing. This was an attempt to get you to answer questions in a fact-based substanitive way.
And to be slightly snarky I admit intentionally, "If you can't run with the big dogs stay on the porch."
In other words EVERYONE else posting in this thread is capable of and has in times past had to deal with rebutting mutiple people at once on a controversial subject (quite often we've done it to each other.) Don't whine about it. It isn't becoming and we don't sympathize.
posted
I've heard of martyr complexes, but around here, some days there's a competition for the pariah complex. Posts: 472 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
But the silence of posters, who cry foul in this thread at OSC, but say NOTHING at the "delivery" of others here, makes their arguements moot.
And I'll say this again ONE last time. If you can't understand it, then that is your problem. The original post was aimed at those who used those terms in the past (and I make an emphasis on TERMS as in Plural for those who purposely ignored it) on this board, the posts since then have been more evidence of "foul deliveries" by people in this thread which have backed up the original post.
They cry foul at OSC's deliveries, and then spew vitrol in their deliveries aimed at me. Some..not all, but it's YOUR responsibility to read the thread and see who those with foul deliveries are.
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Stroman, you've missed Dag's essential point which is that is it DOES NOT MATTER what other people are doing (which is NOT a concession that other people are doing it) when discussing what OSC is doing.
Which is why I don't understand the purpose of this thread, because this, rightfully, couldn't be an open discussion because of the location.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
What few things that might be construed as insults here have been rather mild. Spewing vitriol is more than a bit of an overstatement. OSC says things like that the deep, dark, secret of homosexuality is that many homosexual are converts due to sexual molestation and rape, which is several levels up from any insults that have occurred in this thread.
Second, OSC's insults (that we take offense at) are mostly aimed at whole populations, and can be refuted for many specific members of those populations. Many of the insults at you have been warranted; I fail to see a need to defend you from insults you have earned.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Please name names chad and give a specific instance in this thread. Here's a list of people who have actually posted in this thread:
AmkaProblemka fugu13 pooka BannaOj Scott R Lost Ashes Icarus beverly Xaposert Synesthesia Mr. Squicky Godric celia60 aspectre St. Yogi Katharina Ela Dagonee Bokonon TomDavidson Noemon SaraSasse
I think that's everyone. Please give us specifics as to all of the outrages things said about you and we will believe you.
So far I'm the worst offender other than the bitchslap comment which I didn't make. And the worst things I've said about you specifically personally directed is that you are "nearsighted" and that whining won't gain you sympathy here.
quote: Stroman, you've missed Dag's essential point which is that is it DOES NOT MATTER what other people are doing (which is NOT a concession that other people are doing it) when discussing what OSC is doing.
It may not matter to you, but it hardly makes OSC "odd" when others do the same. It deflates the argument that he is doing something that others don't. Especially when it comes to those attacking his views.
That it doesn't matter to you, is your opinion. Glad you finally got it out there and tied it to the original thread.
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote: So far I'm the worst offender other than the bitchslap comment which I didn't make. And the worst things I've said about you specifically personally directed is that you are "nearsighted" and that whining won't gain you sympathy here.
That you think I'm actually seeking it, is "nearsighted" snarky.
Posts: 1533 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Uh, yeah Chad, I went through the last three pages of this thread in pretty excruciating detail to pull those names and failed to find the "it" you are talking about. Perhaps you can help me?
posted
What people here have been saying OSC is unique in what he does? That's a silly position. People here have been saying OSC uses rhetoric in ways that polite people making well-reasoned arguments do not.
Posts: 15770 | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
Does it really take 12 people to debate Chad? Couldn't you take turns? Draw a number out of a hat or something, or at least take shifts.
I hate to see some of Hatrack's finest wasting their time here. Of course, I enjoy a "gotcha" game as much as anyone, but I'm not a pillar of this community. Posts: 1592 | Registered: May 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote: They cry foul at OSC's deliveries, and then spew vitrol in their deliveries aimed at me. Some..not all, but it's YOUR responsibility to read the thread and see who those with foul deliveries are.
And this isn't looking for sympathy? And I looked for the vitriol and I haven't found anyone, so what should I do now?
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Uh, yeah Chad, I went through the last three pages of this thread in pretty excruciating detail to pull those names and failed to find the "it" you are talking about. Perhaps you can help me?![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
