quote:That is exactly what I'm saying, and there is much evidence to back it up. Look at his reviews. Barring the non-fiction books he disagrees with, he has no compunction against writing a glowing review of something created by someone who is a 'flaming' liberal.
IIRC, he called Ellen Degeneres something like "the best talk show host interviewer out there today." And it wasn't a disguised slam, but honest appreciation.
You don't get more flaming liberal than that.
Posts: 2919 | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote: Personally, while I'm not particularly keen on being coddled, I wouldn't mind having a week go by in which he didsn't accuse me of hating America or being too stupid to realize that I hate America.
Removed from context, it isn't really possible to tell which side wrote this. (it was Tom, presumably talking about OSC). I see this as the basic problem with partisanship. Whenever we divide ourselves into labelled classes, horribilization of the other follows.
I don't make a point to eclecticize my political outlook, but it just happens that I don't agree with anyone on everything.
Posts: 11017 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
hmm going with the whole Locke/Demosthenese idea, remember in the books how OSC had the person who actually disagreed write the article. Peter was Locke and Valentine was Demosthenes.
If I could believe OSC to be Valentine at heart, and just writing Demosthenes for the excercise of it, it would make it a lot more palatable.
posted
If it makes a difference, I met OSC after I had publicly and at length argued with his column on homosexuality, both on Ornery and through e-mail. He still seemed delighted to see me.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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What shall we do with you, miserable mouse? Cover you in peanut butter, Throw you in the gutter, Feed you grilled cheese 'till you swell up like a house?
Or maybe we'll send you to the place where oil is sent When it's spent six days In the grave of Willie Mays, Or maybe do you worse and make you president!
Oh whatever we do will be hori-hori-horrible! And when we're through you'll be sorri-sorri-sorrible! For what you've put us through, and how you made us blue We'll make you sad, sad, sad!
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
You see, that OSC is a really nice guy when he's not writing his columns speaks pretty well to my point. I expect him to be a nice guy. I expect him to care about other people. From what I know of him, this seems to be the person he generally is.
I'm not sure but I think that makes it worse. He is engaging in demogougery and, as you attested Amka, he is smart enough and well-educated enough to know what he is doing. The way he writes is designed for the purpose of increasing the aggression (so many people neglect the role that mental aggression plays) of the people who agree with his views against the people who disagree with them. It is intended to widen the divide between people by using rhetorical tricks.
OSC is not writing for reasonable people. His arguments are not intended to be persuasive. He does not intend for people who disagree with him to read them and think "Ok, I can see how reasonable people could disagree with me."
One of the things I brought up early in this thread is that using other people's bad behavior as an excuse for your own is immature. In that vein, saying "I'm doing this to counteract the Liberal Media." is a really poor excuse. The responsible way to fight manipulation is by providing people with the knowledge and the tools to be able to recognize the manipulation, to help people get to a point where cheap manipulations won't work on them, not to engage in manipulation yourself.
Acting out of hatred is a bad thing. How much worse is it to attempt to increase the hate-based acts of many others, even or maybe especially because you yourself don't feel this hate?
It's a rare thing in our country for people who hold opposing views to have a reasonable, productive discussion of those views. Most people have neither the maturity nor the dedication to truth that makes this possible. And yet it has been happening on Hatrack more and more these days. Amka, you say that OSC isn't looking to Hatrack when he's writing his essays. I guess I'm saying maybe he should be, or at some of the other places where people who strongly disagree still treat each other with respect.
I think it's pretty easy to judge the worthiness of your agenda if you have to get people to turn other people into labels and things in order for them to carry it out.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote: And yet it has been happening on Hatrack more and more these days.
Sadly, the front page today does not seem to be evidence for this . . . there are multiple inflamatory, republican-baiting threads there.
Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Yeah, I don't know if the proportion of quality has increased that much. We've got plenty of people who are content to wallow in the mud, but I think we're getting an increasing number of people who see that for what it is and decry it, regardless of their political affiliation. I don't think you can beat immature and poor quality stuff by fighting directly against it, but you can make some great strides by doing high quality stuff, as long as there is an audience around that appreciates it.
I think one of the big problems with the political climate in our country is that, as I've said numerous times, people tolerate and even celebrate behavior that we wouldn't allow from a 10 year old. As a big believer in group dynamics theory, I think that if people started standing up for actual principles, standards, and quality instead of schoolyard rhetoric and behavior, we might see a growing trend in that direction.
You're always going to have immature and short-sighted people on both sides of any strongly felt issue. The difference is how they and their actions are regarded. Right now, both political parties have these people front and center. I think here at Hatrack, there are some glimmers of hope that they are getting moved more towards the margins.
posted
Incidentally, I just wanted to say that I loved your "I'm not familiar with the particular definition of _______ that you are using" responses. Much better than "What the crap are you talking about"! Posts: 13680 | Registered: Mar 2002
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