Personally, I really liked Phantom, and Andrew Lloyd Webber isn't the worst composer to ever live (I'd give that to whoever was responsible for Cabaret ).
And it was immensely popular at Provo Town Center Movie theatre. We couldn't even get tickets to the matinee, and had to wait in line outside the auditorium for a seat to the (packed) evening show. So to me, at least, the "limping" is a little unnoticable.
posted
I agree with much of what OSC said, but not at all to the same degree. He's right about a lot of what he said, the singing wasn't operatic, the deformity was more like scarring from a burn than a hideous deformity. There were many silly little things that made me go "yeah, right", or "oops".
However, I enjoyed the film. I enjoyed it in a state of suspended disbelief but I enjoyed it nevertheless.
Oh and the music? For worst music and lyrics I vote "Titanic: A New Musical"
posted
Oh, c'mon, Kwea. You can't tell me that you're a fan of Crawford's ridiculously nasal squeaking?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
If that's the case, stay away from his umbrella. KGB operatives have ricin pellet-shooting umbrellas. Not just some of them, all of them. Posts: 903 | Registered: May 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Did you know getting sent a carp means you're on a mafia hit list?
Anyways, I liked Phantom. I think OSC slipped into an incredibly culturally elitist mode here, which normally he seems to despise. Shameful, but his columns tend to follow that trend.
Posts: 1735 | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I wonder what happens if you send someone an umbrella with fish on it?
And I'd heard that though the actors who played Christine and Raoul had classical voice training before Phantom, Gerard Butler, aside from a high school rock band had none, and had voice lessons after being cast as the Phantom.
Common sense would dictate that this is a very stupid thing to do. But Hollywood's not known for it's intelligence, is it? Card is right that for PotO you need to sing, and sing very well. But I think Butler rose to the occasion quite well, and to sing as well as he did with as little training as he had he needed some serious raw talent.
Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I enjoyed the singing a lot more than I thought I would. Something about it not being operatic made it go down easy, which is good cause a good 90% of the movie was the music. Plus, movies are more intimate than plays so the more subtle singing was fitting, I thought.
I also liked the Phantom's singing voice. I hated it in the trailer, but seeing it (hearing it?) in context made sense with the character, to me.
Posts: 3636 | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Andrew Lloyd Webber can write catchy melodies but totally sucks at harmony. As a result even though the melodies are catchy they are also trite.
For example I love "Angel of Music", but on analysis it is predictable and much of his other stuff with crashing chords (that I've played as an accompanist) isn't that great).
posted
Usually I disagree with Card's more extreme opinions on movies, but here, I thought he was right on. I saw Phantom for the first time a couple weeks ago, and it really grated on me in a way that goes beyond a simple bad adaptation.
I mean, I'm a huge fan of Les Misérables, Man of La Mancha, Seven Brides for Seven Brothers ... so this isn't prejudice against musicals. The lyrics of the songs were way below par, as far as cleverness goes. The characters' choices often seemed bizarre or contradictory ... and now, thanks to you guys, I have "Masquerade" running through my head again. Thanks a LOT! Posts: 1539 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I kinda liked Masquerade. I liked how this upbeat song had some pretty dark lyrics. And the guy in the movie with the two-toned mask had my eyes the entire scene.
Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
There was one guy in particular in front whose mask was white on the left side and black on the right, and when he turned you only saw one color. He was the coolest.
Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Given that he didn't like the stage show, I don't see why he saw the movie. I griped about Phantom for years based on the fact that it was popular. But we were given tickets to the touring production. Better than an Alannis Morrissette concert, worse than a hockey game, in my very subjective opinion.
But I have to agree with the dude in "Forget Paris" who said one of the major songs was lifted from "School days, school days, good old golden rule days."
Posts: 666 | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Having heard five ALW musicals and seen two live (one twice) I think I do like his music and I am annoyed when people dislike it- I mean I can understnd disliking The New Starlight Express because of the roller skating and Cats because the plot is *ahem* weak (but honestly that's SO not the point), and Joseph and the Technicolour Dreamcoat because it's a mixture of stuff, but Phantom of the Opera, as musicals with recitative go, is pretty good.
Jesus Christ Superstar is very good, although it's the only one of the five that I've never seen a staged/movied version of.
EDIT: The New Starlight Express I saw in London, England aged about seven and as far as I know, that was the best production. Cats was better in London (rotating stage) than on Broadway.
Oh wait- is Evita ALW, too? I know bits of Evita. That's also good.
posted
I like Evita. Joseph is pretty good. The only thing I know about JCSS is that we used it to open our HS band's religious halftime show.
Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I've seen PotO, Evita, and SLE on stage so far. I'm going to JCSS in a couple weeks.... at least I think I am, Mom says the tickets haven't arrived yet, but it's one of the season pass shows so I'm fairly sure.
Oh, and Puppy, TS Eliot didn't write ALL the "lyrics". We just returned Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats to the library before Christmas and Heather (my 11 year old) enjoyed identifying which songs didn't appear in the book. Naturally, at the moment I can't remember for sure which ones, I'm pretty sure that a couple of the Grizabella songs (there are 3 or 4 total with her name in the title, plus Memories, which Heather considers to be a Griz song), I think Journey and Bustopher, possibly a couple others. And several were changed from the original poetry, minor stuff like having them sung in first person (i.e. Rum Tum Tugger) Myabe we'll check it out again so I can compare again. =)
posted
I was pleasantly suprised to find that elements of "Memory", although not from the Practical Cats book, are T.S. Eliot.
EDIT: Rhapsody on a Windy Night:
quote: ...
Half-past one, The street lamp sputtered, The street lamp muttered, The street lamp said, "Regard that woman Who hesitates towards you in the light of the door Which opens on her like a grin. You see the border of her dress Is torn and stained with sand, And you see the corner of her eye Twists like a crooked pin."
posted
Teshi - Starlight Express has always been on skates - I don't see how using rollerblades somehow undermines the inherent dignity of singing crappy songs while doing a congo on wheels.
Posts: 2245 | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
My first singing performance in public (in front of my year 3 or 4 class, acapella), was a rendition of "Crazy", with me singing Rusty's part. My classmates must have thought I was insane.
Starlight Express will always have a special place in my heart.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
He is right about the lyrics though. If an ALW musical is good, it's usually good because of Tim Rice. (Joseph and the ATD, Evita, JCSS, Aspects of Love...)
His orchestrations are horrendously boring. He can't ever think of anything NEW to do...he's found a formula and sticks with it because...well I don't know why. Is it because he's been churning out musicals for way too long? Is it because he's not talented enough to try something new to do?
I think Phantom is all of the WORST ALW characteristics rolled into one....and Evita. Joseph and Cats have some beautiful music. Original and new and fresh music. Starlight express isn't even bad.....
Anyway, I'm on a tangent. Smack me!
Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Not generally a fan of ALW. Joseph can be a WONDERFUL show, but much of that is in spite of trite music that is so very harmonically uninteresting, borderline juvenile. I accompanied for Joseph one summer (the entire summer) and the first time I started playing through the score I was seriously disappointed -- although I think it does have a couple of real musical gems in it. I've seen the PotO stage production three times and haven't hated it, although the things that I like work IN SPITE of the music, not because of it.
Am I being too opinionated? Feel free to chalk this up to what I have affectionately termed "snotty-music-major syndrome," of which I must admit I'm terribly afflicted. I've realized that I may very well be the stupid one and I'm just too bullheaded to recognize it. Posts: 270 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I liked the phantom, and the actor has some talent in singing... the problem is what OSC said as well, he couldn't quite... hit his notes properly.
But I loved the movie and disagree with OSC in general on this one...
Posts: 1831 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
JemmyGrove, you can't be too opinionated on this board.
I still haven't seen the movie version. My high school girls are all swooning over it and they've been bugging me to go see it for a week now...I suppose I'll have to suck it up and go one of these days. It does look like it's visually a stunning movie, so it shouldn't be too big of a loss.
oh and muppet, thanks for the smack. I needed that! Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
No no no!! The kid from charlie and the chocolate factory is CLEARLY the right choice for Ender. ( )
Posts: 6415 | Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged |
WARNING! There is some language. But funny stuff, there is also.
quote: [Il Muto seems to be about a giant pink poodle-lady who may or may not be having an affair with a page boy who may or may not be an actual boy, played by an actual girl (Christine). People watching the movie who have never seen a real opera make a note not to start going now. We know that the Phantom is going to wreak havoc on the show because we have seen him playing with his Opera Dollhouse of Crazy.]
CARLOTTA [shoving Christine]: Outta mah way, toad!
THE PHANTOM [backstage]: GRUMBLE GRUMBLE TOAD RASSAFRASSIN’ GRUMBLE…
CARLOTTA: I am so gladda to have my throata spritz!
[The Phantom has switched Carlotta’s throat spray with something a**-nasty. Let’s see if she notices.]
CARLOTTA: *spritz spritz* It taste-a little different tonighta, but—AHHHHOOOOAAAAACKKKKUUUUUGHHHHHHHHHA!
CAST OF IL MUTO: Flee the stage! Run for your lives!
posted
Les Miserables is definately my favourite musical, i think it's because it has such a idealistic and tragic story but also heaps of meaning and purpose...and i've seen it a bunch of times. I like Evita too, but that's the only one ALW musical i can handle, his music really all sounds very the same to me. Kinda flashy typical stereotype 'musical' to me. Give me Boubil and Schonberg any day!
Posts: 46 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh, and question I've been meaning to ask. What is with the hand at the level of your eye thing? I don't understand it.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I had to ask too, and my roommate was able to tell me. Keeping your hand at the level of your eye means the Phantom can't strangle you with his noose. Your hand is in the way, see.
It's explained only slightly when Mdm. Giry says it to Boqet, who then puts his hand at his neck to stop the oncoming noose. I only picked it up the second time I saw it.
Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
That's what I figured, then again, I watched an episode of an anime where the basic same thing happened. ^_^
Posts: 1831 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I still like colm Wilkinson best as Phantom. And despite the negativity, I want to see the movie anyway.
Posts: 2849 | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Movie Spoiler (kinda), in case anyone cares at this point...
The Point of No Return scene was awesome. I wasn't a fan of the Phantom's voice up until that part, and the transformation Christine undergoes is just downright impressive to watch.
Other than that, I thought the guys were pansies who sometimes decided to sing properly and Minnie Driver badly overacted a part which calls for bad overacting.
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
![[Dont Know]](graemlins/dontknow.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
![[Evil Laugh]](graemlins/evillaugh.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
