posted
How many people here at Hatrack think what Prince Harry did was totaly out of hand? What the hell was he thinking? "well im going to a party." Yea, mabye i should dress up as Hitler this year for halloween and were a big ass swatzika on my arm. I think what ever comes out of this, loss of pride, humilation on his part, he damn well deserves it.
Posts: 5 | Registered: Jan 2005
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posted
Umm... No offense, but I really don't care about Prince what-ever-his-name-is in the least. Or any of the other various left over European royalty either. They can do whatever they want, whatever makes them happy. What they do, is none of mine, nor anyone elses business. Poor guy deserves some bloody privacy.
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O, i just heard about this on the news, and i thought it was repulsive. I really don't like the Europeans that much anyway.
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Oye... the fact that you heard about that on the news makes me sick (not at you, at the news). They should stop wasting their time invading these poor peoples privacy and go find something better to write a report on, like perhaps this BS the Bush administration pulled with the DoEd and paying off people to essentially market 'No Child Left Behind'.
Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Honestly, I didn't mind what Harry did at all, and I think the British tabloids need to cut that poor kid some slack before they completely ruin his life. It's hard enough growing up in Will's shadow, but it's got to be awful to be stereotyped early as the less handsome, less talented, less intelligent, less tasteful, and ultimately useless one.
He dressed up as a Nazi for a costume party. This is like dressing up like a vampire, a zombie, or Freddy Krueger. If I got upset every time someone came to a Halloween party dressed as the undead because I objected to brain-eating....
His mistake, if he made one at all, was to assume that everyone is "over" the Nazi menace. But let's not pillory the guy for it.
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quote:This is like dressing up like a vampire, a zombie, or Freddy Krueger. If I got upset every time someone came to a Halloween party dressed as the undead because I objected to brain-eating....
Weeell . . . I could argue that that's different. Vampires and zombies and so on don't actually exist, and never have. They're purely folklore and fiction, and no real person has ever been killed by a zombie. The same cannot be said of Nazis.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Did anyone else get confused and think that the actor who played Harry Potter showed up at a party as a nazi. Because I could have sworn that's what the AIM headlines said...
Or maybe I've been reading a tad too much Harry Potter fanfic recently.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Tom, I think you underestimate the horror Europeans still feel at that episode. Also, remember that there are still some highly nasty organisations around holding to that ideology, who would like nothing better than to claim the support of the british Royal Family. Like it or not, and I'm not saying he should like it, comrade Harry is in the public eye.
The King of Norway is sixtieth in line to the British throne, apparently. I wonder how much you'd have to spend on assassins to bring that about? Comrade Crown Prince Håkon has never been the sharpest knife in the drawer, but at least he's not an actual spoon like some people we could mention.
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posted
It's a hard choice, but if I have to choose, I would pick Dagonee! Oh wait...
quote:His mistake, if he made one at all, was to assume that everyone is "over" the Nazi menace.
I think it means more to the British, given that they were bombed by the Nazis and were close to being invaded.
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posted
Does a sick feeling come over people when they see someone dressed up as Count Dracula? No. Does a sick feeling come over the victims of Nazi tyranny when they see someone dressed up as a Nazi? Yes.
Dressing up to a costume party like Nazi is like telling incredibly offensive racist or sexist jokes in jest. The person telling them might not actually be racist or sexist, but people are certainly offended as well they should be.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
I just wonder what costume shop was selling his outfit...Unless he got some designer to make his shirt (Not much of a costume, really. Basically looked like one of those stupid tuxedo t-shirts. Personally, I really don't care what he did. I think it was a move of stupidity on his part, but jeez. I do not care what some teenager (He's still a teenager, right? Or am I going to have to freak out that he's over 20?) in England did (And honestly, he is just some teenager because I really don't care about the British royal family in the least.).
Posts: 3003 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Also, remember that there are still some highly nasty organisations around holding to that ideology, who would like nothing better than to claim the support of the british Royal Family.
quote:Does a sick feeling come over people when they see someone dressed up as Count Dracula? No. Does a sick feeling come over the victims of Nazi tyranny when they see someone dressed up as a Nazi? Yes.
Exactly. I know people who lived through the Nazi era and remember very vividly what things were like. Nazis are more than just "bad taste". The negative reaction to them is visceral and absolute.
How many people can you name who have had personal dealings with vampires? Even the real life man Dracula was based on has been dead long enough that no one alive today has ever been affected by all his impalings. He's a historical figure, no more "real" to us today than Superman or Ender. But even though Hitler has been dead more than half a century, there are still plenty of people who remember him, and plenty of people who still love what he stood for and would do anything to see it revived.
So yes, I think dressing up as a Nazi for a Halloween party is more than just bad taste. I think it's incredibly stupid, insensitive, and more than a little sinister. It's not the same as vampires at all.
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here is my question, If i went to the party as a nazi, would the world be criticizing me? NO. I would be with people whom I'm well aquatinted with and who's tastes I have felt out. I'm willing to bet not a single person at the party even gave Prince Harry's costume a second thought, well maybe they wondered who screwed it up, but thats probably about it. The only people who are making a big deal out of this are moronic fools who are holding him to much higher standards than you'd hold even your own children (I apologize to those of you who this apply's to). Prince Harry has suffered more than enough for his faults, and also for the genes that make him up.
Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Unfortunately, the Prince is not just a teenager, even though I wouldn't address him as "your highness" nor would I bow to him he is a representative of the British government. If he doesn't want that responsibility than he could abdicate and be rid of all the public scrutiny.
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quote: The only people who are making a big deal out of this are moronic fools who are holding him to much higher standards than you'd hold even your own children (I apologize to those of you who this apply's to).
I hardly think its moronic to expect your children to not emulate Nazis and use cannabis.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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posted
nfl, that can be read as "Do not emulate Nazis, but smoke cannabis."
I honestly don't care. The Nazi uniform debacle is exactly the same over there as the Janet Jackson nipple is over here. When that happened, the Brits just pointed and laughed, calling us uptight puritains. The Economist went so far as to post the image of Jackson's nipple in it.
I think I can return fire and say, Ha ha ha, those Brits are such uptight... uhhh... historians? Posts: 903 | Registered: May 2003
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nfl and/or someone with knowledge of the UK legal system- Really? Is there some British law that lets the son of the Crown Prince abdicate and have true privacy? Also, emulating is a bit too strong a word just for dressing up in a Hitler costume at a costume party. Openly expressing a sincere opinion in line with Nazism is pretty much the lower limit.
Offensive, but I hope he does not suffer any legal consequences. I suppose in some abstract sense he is as entitled to privacy as any other UK citizen, but I have a hard time feeling sorry for him. He knew or should have known what he would be getting into.
Posts: 281 | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote: nfl and/or someone with knowledge of the UK legal system- Really? Is there some British law that lets the son of the Crown Prince abdicate and have true privacy?
Depends what you call "true privacy." The Prince would certainly no longer be an official member of the British government, but I don't suppose when he does something outrageous that the tabloids won't report on it.
Posts: 3446 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quote:Honestly, I didn't mind what Harry did at all
quote:He dressed up as a Nazi for a costume party. This is like dressing up like a vampire, a zombie, or Freddy Krueger. If I got upset every time someone came to a Halloween party dressed as the undead because I objected to brain-eating....
quote:The only people who are making a big deal out of this are moronic fools who are holding him to much higher standards than you'd hold even your own children (I apologize to those of you who this apply's to). Prince Harry has suffered more than enough for his faults
Frankly, I am shocked and appalled at these reactions. I find them almost as offensive as the act itself.
Tom, my husband's family was not destroyed by vampires, zombies, or Freddy Krueger - they were killed by the Nazis. Not only that, but every part of their family was destroyed. Andrew's grandfather went back to Germany to visit his town. Maybe if you saw pictures of him weeping on his father's broken headstone, you wouldn't be so quick to trivialize this.
Well, Stryker, considering that I'm Jewish and my husband is the grandchild of the sole survivors of the Nazi murder of their families, we would expect our children not to dress up as a Nazi for any reason ever. And we would immediately cut all ties to someone who did.
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posted
Hmm. WWII killed 50 million people and was 60 years ago, giving roughly one million people per year ago. 9/11 killed 3000 people and was three years ago, so one thousand people / year. That makes it three orders of magnitude less important than WWII. Yep, time to get over that one.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
If Bush's daughters did that it still wouldn't be even nearly as bad because although they are directly related to the President, they themselves are not members of the American government.
This has gotten special attention obviously because it is a member of the British royal family, but I think its something that should be condemned no matter who does it.
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If one brings the topic up in front of me, I will.
quote:Depends what you call "true privacy." The Prince would certainly no longer be an official member of the British government, but I don't suppose when he does something outrageous that the tabloids won't report on it.
Then why should he abdicate? Seems to have a potentially high cost for little or no benefit. People have the right to be offensive morons.
Posts: 281 | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote: Dressing up as a Nazi is not emulating one.
Tell that to a Holocaust survivor.
I would have no problems doing that.
quote:OK, what if the Bush twins dressed up as Osama Bin Laden for Halloween?
First of all, there were a *lot* of people that dressed up as him this last halloween. Second of all, the Bush twins are connected to an acutal leader. I don't understand why people even care what the queen does.
posted
There has been a lot of talk about how he is getting a harder rap because he is a prince. I think that is untrue. True, more people know about it because he is a prince and a representative of the British government, but wearing that uniform was beyond being insensitive. I would be very upset if someone I knew were to wear a Nazi uniform to a party, and when I have children someday, I would never let them out of the house dressed like that.
I really don't understand why people don't think this is a big deal. Wouldn't you be shocked if a member of the American government went to a party dressed like they were in the KKK?
We should never let ourselves get desensitized to hate to the degree that the symbols of hate become funny or somehow acceptable.
Posts: 1901 | Registered: May 2004
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posted
Putting aside the rightness or wrongness of wearing the costume for a minute, the reactions were absolutely predictable. This kid is what, third in line for the throne? There had to be a lot of points in the chain from his first getting the idea to putting it on where the thought, "Maybe this isn't such a good idea?" crossed his mind.
It makes me wonder if this outcry wasn't the intended result. And if it was, then it's hideously wrong, because he knew he would be causing great pain to people.
First of all, he should absolutely be held to high standards. He is royalty. Whether he likes it or not, he is in the public eye, and his actions reflect on his entire nation on the world stage. It may be foolish that the world stage cares what some kid does, and it may be a throwback to an obsolete era when there would have been a chance he'd one day come into real power. But that doesn't change the fact. He is the son of the heir to the throne of one of the more powerful countries of the world. That makes him a public figure, and a highly visible one at that. A private person's indiscretions may be their own business, but Prince Henry of Wales by definition is not a private person.
Secondly, why do you make assumptions about the standards we'd hold our own children to? How many people here would let their own children go to a Halloween party dressed as a Nazi? I'm sure some would, not because they're Nazi sympathizers but simply because they don't see why it matters. But I do see, and I sure as hell would not let my children.
(And yes, linguistically speaking, "emulate" is too strong a word. To emulate means to strive to be like, or more precisely, to attempt to surpass. Prince Harry was not emulating the Nazis, he was merely dressing up as one. A much lesser crime, surely, but still one for which he should have known better. His life is not his own, and as that has been the case his entire life, he should at least be used to it, even if he doesn't like it.)
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quote: Then why should he abdicate? Seems to have a potentially high cost for little or no benefit. People have the right to be offensive morons.
The press can target anyone, you don't have to be a public figure to be targeted. Abdicating would make him less a public figure and therefore much more likely to be left alone in the long run if he wants to continue to do stupid things.
Having the right to does not equal shouldn't be condemned for it. I have the right to go outside and scream that I hate everyone who isn't white, but if I did so everyone would be very much justified in condemning me for it.
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posted
If the Bush twins dressed up as bin Laden, I would laugh. That would be humorous in a way that some random person would not be. If their father (as well as the rest of our federal government) had not used 9/11 as a political tool, I could even see it being offensive. Now... if you are not offended by the big things, why worry about the small?
Posts: 281 | Registered: Aug 2004
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quote:First of all, he should absolutely be held to high standards. He is royalty.
I feel the opposite. Since he is royalty, he never has to actually accomplish anything. It wouldn't be fair to hold him up to the same standards we hold a normal college student.
quote:(And yes, linguistically speaking, "emulate" is too strong a word. To emulate means to strive to be like, or more precisely, to attempt to surpass. Prince Harry was not emulating the Nazis, he was merely dressing up as one. A much lesser crime, surely, but still one for which he should have known better. His life is not his own, and as that has been the case his entire life, he should at least be used to it, even if he doesn't like it.)
I can't disagree with that. (In this case, a double negative *does* make a positive -- I agree with you.)
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posted
By the way, I don't think he's being held to a higher standard than any other children. Nazi apparel is shocking in Europe. My parents would certainly have grounded me if I'd tried anything of the sort.
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quote:Second of all, the Bush twins are connected to an acutal leader. I don't understand why people even care what the queen does.
****
I feel the opposite. Since he is royalty, he never has to actually accomplish anything. It wouldn't be fair to hold him up to the same standards we hold a normal college student.
Pirnce Harry lives a life of privilege. With that privilege comes responsibility. Granted he is not expected to lead a nation. He is however, expected to set an example for others.
Posts: 1592 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
It is just stupid, plain stupid. It is not the kind of stupid that is funny to watch like viva la bam and such shows, but stupid as in, wtf were you thinking. You dont just accidentally were that to a party. "Ooo looky here, this looks pretty, o no, its a what! o well."
Posts: 5 | Registered: Jan 2005
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quote:Pirnce Harry lives a life of privilege. With that privilege comes responsibility.
Not really. What is he responsible for? Can that responsibility be taken away? If not, then it's not real.
Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Wouldn't you be shocked if a member of the American government went to a party dressed like they were in the KKK?
Only at their political ineptitude, assuming they were running for reelection.
quote:How many people here would let their own children go to a Halloween party dressed as a Nazi?
Under or over the age of majority? I have no right to force an adult to do or not do anything that is not blatantly... immoral is a poor word, but I cannot really think of the right one. It should certainly be legal, but I would personally condemn it as wrong, unless it was done as a statement promoting free speech.
quote:His life is not his own, and as that has been the case his entire life, he should at least be used to it, even if he doesn't like it.
The first part of that sentence is much more offensive than someone dressing up as a racist. The second is certainly true.
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quote:I feel the opposite. Since he is royalty, he never has to actually accomplish anything. It wouldn't be fair to hold him up to the same standards we hold a normal college student.
I don't mean a higher standard of achievement. I mean a higher standard of behavior. Personally, I don't regard Prince Harry as very important. I don't regard anyone in a non-ruling royal family as very important. I think they're more like a hood ornament; they might look nice, sitting there on the car, but they don't actually do anything, and removing them wouldn't affect how the car runs.
(The same is obviously not true of monarchies where the monarch still rules rather than merely "reigns". So I'm not counting the Sultan of Brunei or the King of Saudi Arabia. But I am counting the British royal family, the Spanish king, the Dutch queen, the Japanese emperor, and any other royal figure with no actual power.)
But that doesn't change the fact that they are by definition in the public eye all the time. So it's not unreasonable to expect they watch their behavior a little more carefully than plain old John Q. Englishman the grocery store janitor.
(Of course, I think everyone ought to hold themselves to high standards. I'm not really a fan of debauchery, so people who go around living their lives like nothing they do matters don't really get much sympathy from me. But that's all beside the point.)
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quote:I have no right to force an adult to do or not do anything that is not blatantly... immoral is a poor word, but I cannot really think of the right one.
For me, "tasteless" is a perfect word. So is "offensive".
quote:I don't mean a higher standard of achievement. I mean a higher standard of behavior.
I think it is unrealistic to expect somebody to behave better when they have never really had to face the natural consequences of their actions. I don't know him -- maybe he *has* had to face those consequences in his life, but I'm going from the assumption that he hasn't.
quote:But that doesn't change the fact that they are by definition in the public eye all the time.
posted
Prince Harry has both been raised in the public eye and has had to deal with running into trouble before. Among other problems he's already had drug abuse problems. He knows perfectly well the standards that he's held up to and the consequences for failing to live up to them.
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The fact that he's royalty. He's a potential heir to the throne. Like I said, I personally don't consider that as making him an important person. Even if something should happen to Prince William that puts Harry on the throne, he still wouldn't be an important person because the British monarch doesn't actually have any power. He could only become an important person if he actually accomplished something important. But important or not, he's still, even now, a potential king. That makes him an extraordinarily prominent public figure.
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