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bev, the "dumbing down" is intentional. For most of its existence, Sesame Street was aimed at 4-5 year-olds, due to the way society was set up in the 60s and 70s (Big Bird is supposed to be a 5 year-old). Very few kids had any formal education before going to kindergarten then, so Sesame Street was designed to fill the gap, and help bring the kids watching to a level where they weren't seriously behind their peers in kindergarten. With the advent of pre-school/nursery school, Sesame Street has made a decision to move to a younger (3-year-old) demographic (See: Elmo), since pre-school generally brings kidds to a decent level prior to elementary school. This is related to me by my fiancee who just read the autobio of the guy who plays Big Bird and Oscar the Grouch.
Dora is designed to stimulate multiple intelligences. Which is good, if you believe in that sort of thing.
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Boobah and Teletubbies are made by the same company for different age groups. TT is for 1-2 year olds and BB is for 3-4 year olds. At least the BB dancers have more precision than the TTs.
Posts: 2010 | Registered: Apr 2003
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The children's tv I grew up on was a show in England called Blue Peter. It's been running for upwards of 40 (50 even?) years and it's basically four adults who go out to places and do things. They are enthusiastic, but not over the top.
They have people who come in (scientists, performers of all types of the arts, atheletes, dog trainers, you name it) and show what they do. They try to appeal to a wide age group (2-12). I believe it is the most popular children's show in Britain, or it was nine years ago.
They also go overseas to Africa and Asia and show what life is like there, on camera. They hold money-raising events and show the bring-and-buy sales that children and schools hold. Every summer they take a trip overseas to somewhere. The Canada series was funny.
In the studio, it's all live. In one classic episode, one of the presents made a terrible terrible pancake.
These are adults retaining their dignity, not leaping up and down the screen in a tiny colourful box, not making a fool of themselves. They do adult things that children are interested in; car driving, inventions, performing, sky diving.
If a child did something fantastic, like winning an international chess competition, they would either write or be invited to the show.
For some reason, this idea never caught on in America or Canada, yet it is what I believe teh heart of Children's TV should be. Not being "educational" or "moral", not intentionally, anyway.
I hope Blue Peter never ends, because it is really something special.
Now, if you turn on the television in Canada, more than half the tv shows are either Australian or British. More than half! None are quite like Blue Peter, but they all retain a certain childlike dignity that many shows do not.
Blue Peter is a link to the website. It has changed somewhat, but not too much, I hope.
EDIT: This competition is an example of the integrated power that has been gained. Children get to design a design that, if it wins, would really go on a plane. A real plane. Imagine; who wouldn't be thrilled about a proposition like that?
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Yep, yep, Bok is right about Sesame Street. I remember all the hoopla when they decided to gear it toward the younger age group. They deliberately put less randomness and more "patterns" into it because of the age group they're trying to reach.
Operaetta, who's 6, LOVES Mr. Rogers. She asked me if he was still alive and I just couldn't tell her that he wasn't. Only time I've ever lied to one of my kids.
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Any mentions of the Wiggles yet? They were pretty popular with my oldest niece a few years ago but no one else in my house could stand them. Just say to the Wiggles. Posts: 378 | Registered: Aug 2004
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Whatever happened to grandparents on TV? The shows I watched, Mr. Rogers, Lamb Chop, the people were like you're grandparents. They didn't try to make learning fun by being patronizing and making it colorful. They didn't talk down to you. The learning part, they just showed something to you and seemed genuinely interested in it, and because they were interested you were too. And they were so human, not just in the they're not animated sense. You could see yourself going over to their house and getting some juice and cookies.
And then there was Reading Rainbow and Wishbone, which I also loved. I miss those.
Imagine Wishbone saying "The enemy's gate is down".
Posts: 1735 | Registered: Oct 2004
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My big problem with Sesame Street is not the "dumbing down" per se; it's the overproduction. Example: in the early 70's, a segment encouraging little kids to dance consisted of Paul Simon, with a guitar, sitting on the stoop and playing "Me and Julio Down by the Schoolyard" with a big grin on his face, and a bunch of little kids dancing however they felt like. (On a side note, if I ever had to choose to meet a celebrity and ask him/her one question, I have no hesitation: it would be Paul Simon, and the question would be, "What in the heck is 'Me and Julio Down by the Schoolyard' about?") A recent segment encouraging little kids to dance consists of a song specifically describing what it means to dance (everyone can do it, you move your body to the music, etc.), while shots of little kids doing very "directed" dance moves are intercut with animation of dancing, etc. I much prefer the former.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Did nobody else watch Bill Nye the Science Guy? Or Mr. Wizard? That and the discovery channel, back when they were "All Nature Shows... All the Time!"
I soo wanted to be a scientist when I grew up... except I grew up and realized I have a rare and untreatable condition wherein lab experiments produce completely inexplicable results. For instance, in my test cases, falling bodies accelerate at 5.31 meters/s/s rather than the normal 9.8m/s/s.
My little sister watches "Dora the Explorer", and I thought it was stupid, but there is certainly worse. She watches a show called "Dragon Tales", which is basically a poorly developed vehicle for drilling MORALITY(tm) into the minds of small children. I don't have a problem with teaching life lessons, but I've seen six episodes wherein the jist of the show was to be truthful. The other three were about not stealing or something. It seemed like a waste of time. The dragons were even really stupid looking, as if the art style needed to be dumbed down for the target audience.
Posts: 903 | Registered: May 2003
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I loved those shows! And this weird show with this guy and this dude dressed like a rat, very amusing show. Mr. Wizard taught me that people are longer than they are tall and when you mix baking soda and water and salt interesting things happen. ALSO 321 Contact taught me that crystals grow.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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It sounds like Reading Rainbow is a similar standard to Blue Peter, though it is focused on books. And when they had the Star Trek alumni on a quiz show, Levar Burton actually won. I don't see how he could have not with all the work he does on Reading Rainbow.
Posts: 2010 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote: She watches a show called "Dragon Tales", which is basically a poorly developed vehicle for drilling MORALITY(tm)
It seems like most tv for children/ book series' are all about morality. Each story seems to sneak a little hint of "what you're supposed to do" into it. It's as if many writers are unable to complete a plot without some spark of deliberate moral lesson (not the kind that just is, but one that is strategically placed) entering the story.
Also, moral correctness becomes supreme over everything else. In an episode of George Shrinks (small boy who is about the size of a mug who lives with the normal sized rest of his family) George organises a hockey team. He is the coach.
Throughout the practices and games of the plot the same ideas are repeated again and again, and they are almost rediculous. The kid who is monumentally bad at playing hockey finds his contribution to it is something absurd that has nothing to do with hockey, and no likely actual effect on the team. He exclaims "I've found my strength!" When the team looses, instead of being unhappy or disappointed they skate around shouting "we had so much fun!"
(I can almost imagine the child who dislikes hockey searching and searching, instead of leaving the ice and finding something different to be good at. I can imagine a different child seeing a scoreboard and feeling sad but feeling like he is bad to be disappointed.)
Heaven forbid a child should feel upset, or someone should not be fulfilled in hockey. Instead of dealing with these issues in a way that was realistic (for instance, the team is disappointed, but has improved and had a good time anyway) the writers have gone out of their way to be so morally correct that what happens is laughable.
I'm not sure what the effect of such totally mixed messages set in such an inconceivable plotline has on a child, but it can't be constructive.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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I decided I'd had enough of Clifford after watching the "Harvest Day" episode. They were very clear that this was a 4 day weekend in November where they go to Grandma's and eat turkey and stuffing and pumpkin pie, but it's not Thanksgiving.
I have been amazed at how little instruction in letters and numbers there is, apart from Sesame Street and sometimes Barney. My son learned his letters from playing Blasterball 2.
Posts: 2010 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Clifford? Ugh. I hate the Clifford books. Now, Franklin is not so bad, it's rather cute, a turtle! Arthur's nice. Little Bear makes no sense because little bear has no clothes, everyone else does. Why is that? *obsessed with picture books*
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Political correctness is another issue, but if in real life it's okay for some people to celebrate one holiday, and others to celebrate another, how come "Thanksgiving" can't be explained as something "some people do and others don't", instead of pretending everyone does, and everyone calls it something confusing.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:I have been amazed at how little instruction in letters and numbers there is, apart from Sesame Street and sometimes Barney.
There used to be a show--maybe it's still on--on PBS called "Between The Lions". That show is really great. It has a lot of the letters and numbers stuff in it, presented in a very "sesame street" way.
Posts: 903 | Registered: May 2003
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I don't trust between the Lions because it has Dr. Ruth on it. In the 80's, she used to have a sex therapy show on cable. There are a lot of 80's references like Gawain's word, which is clearly based on Wayne's world. What the hey?
And then there is the potato private eye, where they poke fun at parents who set the channel to PBS and then walk away assuming everything is fine. It's just too creepy for me.
Posts: 2010 | Registered: Apr 2003
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For all that I hated it, my daughter loves Boobah. Thank goodness she doesn't get to watch it. It's awful.
And I agree about Dora. But I also dislike Calliou. It seems to me to be an instruction video for toddlers on how not to act. And is really intended to not-so-subtly teach parents how they're supposed to discipline their children. Yuck.
I do like Arthur, Clifford, and don't outright hate DragonTales. My favorite is Jakers!. I love that show.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote: But I also dislike Calliou. It seems to me to be an instruction video for toddlers on how not to act. And is really intended to not-so-subtly teach parents how they're supposed to discipline their children. Yuck.
YES! I only watched this a couple times, but it was just awful. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Did nobody else watch Bill Nye the Science Guy?
Meh. I thought it was just a cheap "Beakman's World" knockoff. I mean, I'm sure it wasn't. I'm sure it was a completely different kind of show that would also have been valuable to me. But give me a break; I was just a kid. I had watched "Beakman's World" for so long by the time Bill Nye came along that I figured, at the time, that Bill Nye was just a wannabe. My loss, no doubt, but there you have it.
quote:(On a side note, if I ever had to choose to meet a celebrity and ask him/her one question, I have no hesitation: it would be Paul Simon, and the question would be, "What in the heck is 'Me and Julio Down by the Schoolyard' about?")
You wouldn't be the first to ask him that. Here's a link that may be of interest. It includes an excerpt from a written interview and an excerpt from a different, audio interview where he explains it. Don't click the link if you want the mystery preserved.
Incidentally, does anyone remember the "Reading Rainbow" episode where LeVar Burton took us behind the scenes of "Star Trek: The Next Generation" and showed us how they make the show? Man, that was awesome!
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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I watched the "Fred Rogers: America's Favorite Neighbor" DVD the other week, and it was quite an experience. It's amazing to me now how much the same man he was on television and in real life. It had a bunch of footage from some of his earlier shows, and other things he'd worked on, as well as the various interviews he did.
What really got to me, though, was watching him testify before a Senate subcomittee when public television was slated to have its funding cut by twenty million (billion? surely not) dollars. Very moving - he somehow convinced them, in six minutes, not to cut funding to public television - and a considerable portion of what he said was just the lyrics of a classic Mr. Rogers song!
Really wonderful. If you get a chance to see the DVD, don't pass it up.
Posts: 54 | Registered: Sep 2004
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At Christmas my sister-in-law gave me a crate of old kids video's she doesn't need anymore. In them were a bunch of "Thomas The Train" videos. I thought great, Sasha will love this being a 4 year old boy.
They were the WORST storytelling I've ever experienced. The plots have no arc, the jokes and lessons have no timing, and the whole thing put me to sleep.
I do like the Wiggles. They encourage kids in front of the TV to dance and move--EXERCISE!!!! (that was a Dora yell).
BBCA had on a silly show doing a take off of the Telle-Tubbies and other famous Brits. In one episode they introduce a Tubby. He is sad. Why? Because their show is aimed at only 2 year olds, who have very short memories, why they only need 15 shows. Poor Tubby, we have those shows on tape, so Tubby no longer has a job. Bye-Bye Tubby.
Posts: 11895 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Thanks, Verily. But he doesn't really explain it, he just says he doesn't really remember what the heck was going through his head. The things you learn on Hatrack. At least I learned I'm on track with what Truman Capote always thought it was about. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Yeah. It is kind of anti-climactic, after years of hearing and being intrigued by the song, thinking surely there must be some fascinating meaning behind this. Then you find out the whole meaning is that he liked the phrase "Me and Julio" and wrote a bunch of words around it without really worrying about whether they meant anything. Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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*mourns the passing of Bill Nye the Science Guy*
Right when I started watching and loving this show, they took it off the air. I was in my early 20's. Posts: 7050 | Registered: Feb 2004
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My 2 year old daughter is getting heavily repeated doses of (on DVD) Kiki's Delivery Service , Spirited Away , and Hellboy , which she loves. She also likes WWE Wrestling.
But when my wife lets her watch TV, she puts on the Wiggles for her, or as a last resort, Hello Kitty DVDs
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Mathnet was my very most favorite thing when I was a kid. It was the greatest. I loved Square One in general too. And I loved Mr. Rogers (I had a fish last year named Mr. Rogers...he died. ), Sesame Street (The No Song!), and all that stuff. I was a huge fan of Reading Rainbow, but I don't like the newer ones. They're totally bizarre. Ha, and last year I took a math class and my TA reminded me of Levar Burton, so every morning, at 7:30am, only half-awake, I hummed the theme song to myself.
Did anyone watch Today's Special? I was a big fan of that too, and Zoobilly Zoo (?), Shining Times Station, and the World of David the Gnome. Posts: 119 | Registered: Oct 2004
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Okay, wow. Turns out Bill Nye is anything but a wannabe. He graduated from Cornell University--having studied under Carl Sagan--with a degree in mechanical engineering.
Beakman, on the other hand, has no formal training in science at all. He's obviously interested in science, but he is certainly no scientist.
Bill Nye is a mechanical engineer. Beakman is a political satirist. Now I guess I know who the wannabe is. Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Both Beakman and Bill Nye started about the same time, at most a year apart. I watched more Bill Nye because I didn't like Beakman's World, I don't remember why though.
Posts: 2489 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Is this the America version of Thomas the Tank Engine? A Blue steam train with a face on the front who runs on a branch line?
Were they narrated? Who by? It's a book series, I believe, turned into a tv series. The films I'm thinking of are narrated by Ringo Starr (as in the Beatles).
If they are the same, I can only think you watched a shoddy re-make version. I love Thomas the Tank Engine.
A Train to one who fell into a ditch because of his pride and arrogance:
"I smell a smell. A musty sort of smell. It's ditchwater!"
Pure genius I hope we aren't talking about the same thing.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Looking at the Wikipedia articles for "Bill Nye the Science Guy" and [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beakman%27s_World]"Beakman's World"[/url], it seems Bill Nye's show is actually older, though not by much. So why had I never heard of Bill Nye until I was already an established Beakman fan? And why do I remember myself as having been younger than I was when those shows came along? I could swear I was watching Beakman when I was eleven, but according to Wikipedia, the show didn't exist yet. Very mysterious.
Edit: And why isn't the link to the Beakman page working? Very mysterious.
I don't know what "Thomas the Train" is, but I know we had that same "Thomas the Tank Engine" show here, with Ringo Starr as the tiny little conductor. (I want to say George Carlin also played that role sometimes, but I might just be imagining things.) I never watched it, though, so I couldn't say if it was any good.
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George Carlin did, in fact, narrate "Thomas the Tank Engine."
My son, who is eight, finally said it was OK to retire his Thomas sheets. He had four train birthdays(2, 3, 4, 5) in a row. He loved him some Thomas.
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In England the station master is called the Fat Controller. I've forgotten what he is called here, but it not that, hee hee.
Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003
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No, the controller is different than the tiny dude. The tiny dude pops in and out, the Fat Controller is sort of a despotic railroad tycoon.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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Alisha, I think you're me. Honestly - no one else has ever heard of Zoobily Zoo. We used to watch it all the time, and one time one of my friends insulted me rather harshly by saying "Stop being so bossy! Geez... you're just like Bravo the Fox!"
My siblings love Dragon Tales, and I don't really mind it, but I don't think they learn much from it. Heaven knows they don't learn any of the Spanish - I tried the other day to say "Hola ninos! Como estais?" and they stared at me blankly. They did, however, laugh uproariously when I improvised a new version of the magic dragon words:
I wish, I wish With all my heart To know if dragons Have fiery farts. Posts: 8504 | Registered: Aug 1999
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Teshi, I don't think he is called that on the show, but he is in the book. Let me check. It is swirling around my brain, but I can't remember. It is more PC than The Fat Controller, for sure.
Posts: 10890 | Registered: May 2003
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quote:Honestly - no one else has ever heard of Zoobily Zoo.
I've heard of it. I've never seen it, and wouldn't recognize a clip from it if I saw one. But I've heard the name. You know, if that counts. Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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to the Wiggles. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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At least I learned I'm on track with what Truman Capote always thought it was about. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I was in my early 20's. ![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
