quote: I think there needs to be a counterpart to Godwin's law that states when an atheist pulls out pink unicorns, purple pandas, and the easter bunny, productive conversation has died.
I don't understand why, Beverly. For every witness claiming to have witnessed Christ's love, we can pull out witnesses historical and living who claim to have witnessed the power of some other mutually-exclusive force or godhead. Clearly, there is no authoritative witness here.
Which means, as far as we're concerned, that the only difference between Bigfoot and the Christian God is that there's no one in any numbers out there saying that they have proof Bigfoot doesn't exist, while thousands of Muslims, Hindus, and pagans would insist that they have proof that the Christian God doesn't.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Tom, I am well aware that there are contradicting witnesses. It is logical for me to conclude that some are true and some are not. While witnesses are far from being the only reason I believe in my faith, I do find the accounts convincing. I do not find the accounts of Bigfoot convincing.
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It's hardly my fault that no-one is willing to persecute the faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorn. I can't help that I was born into a tolerant age.
As for your evidence : Had you been born into a different faith, the same evidence would have supported a quite different doctrine. That's the point I've been making for much of this thread : If people do, indeed, select their faith based on evidence, why, it's really amazing how often that evidence coincides with what their parents happened to believe.
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Or it could be that as their parents were happy in their religion, that sense of fulfillment carried over the the children...in other words, since they came from very similar backgrounds, they value the same things highly.
Wow, what a concept!
Sorry, I DID say I would stay out of this, didn't I? Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote: As for your evidence : Had you been born into a different faith, the same evidence would have supported a quite different doctrine. That's the point I've been making for much of this thread : If people do, indeed, select their faith based on evidence, why, it's really amazing how often that evidence coincides with what their parents happened to believe.
Funny you should mention that. The evidence I have for my belief fits with only one religion. That's the one I'm in. I've seen no other religion professing claims of doctrine that are in any remote level of harmony with that evidence. And no, I'm not going to tell you that evidence. Sorry, that's personal
edit: It's okay, Kwea, just do like me and screw with his head.
[ March 27, 2005, 02:50 AM: Message edited by: Boris ]
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quote: Which means, as far as we're concerned, that the only difference between Bigfoot and the Christian God is that there's no one in any numbers out there saying that they have proof Bigfoot doesn't exist, while thousands of Muslims, Hindus, and pagans would insist that they have proof that the Christian God doesn't.
Muslims believe in the same God as Jews and Christians. Just sayin'.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Nah, despite this thread, KoM is ok, most of the time. I know him form Ed Sauron's aborted DnD game, and while we are not what I would call close, he is OK.
I don't even completely discount everything he has to say here, just his absolute belief in himself, even about things he has no clue about...or even better, in things that have no definitive answer...
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Yes, Boris. I'm saying that had you been born a Catholic, you would have made up a different set of evidence.
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punwit, i had a further though on the search for love. If an abused child took its search for unconditional love into a fantasy realm, creating imagined parents to care for it, would we not label that unhealthy?
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More accurately, KoM, you believe Boris made it up. Will you concede the possibility that he, of all the people on Earth, might have but is highly unlikely to have actual evidence? I see no way you could conclude otherwise.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Rather than fall into a rather deft logic trap that you've laid I'll posit this scenario instead. A perfectly normal, well adjusted child claims, when questioned, that he makes his decisions about what to do based on voices he hears. He makes good choices most of the time and seems to learn from his mistakes. As time goes by he continues to declare that his choices are directed by inner voices but he has grown to be a considerate, productive member of society and often takes stances that his peers ridicule him for but which his parents are proud of. He never falters in his assertion that he is directed by some unseen hand. Should this person be subjected to intervention to cure him of his, to some, obvious delusion?
I'd like to point out at this time that love isn't the only emotional handle that can be used for manipulation. You've settled on religion as the bugger in our society but I could hold patriotism up as equally dangerous and rife with potential to engender violence.
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OK, punwit, I see your point, but I'd like to hold up two further points for consideration. First, what if your likely young lad's voices are just setting him up for a fall? For all we know, they may decide that tomorrow is the day they're going to tell him to go out and rape someone. Second, I contend that the lad in question is not, in fact, an upstanding member of society. He has been known to set the dresses of ladies on fire, not to mention breaking and entering.
TomD, fine, I believe he made up his evidence.
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What assurances can you provide that tomorrow won't be the day you decide to make the world a better place by ridding it of a few highly placed religious icons? Posts: 2022 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Only the fact that at least I haven't done it so far. Plus I'm moderately rational and do not hear voices in my head. Usually that's considered a bad sign, you know.
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I always felt that anyone who is %100 confident in their religious or non-religious beliefs was simply fooling themself. Either that or they hadn't though about the matter deeply enough.
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