posted
I just received my copy of CotM back form my father, and it is in terrible condition. Pages are falling out, and the cover is all ripped. I know it was probably an accident, but he didn't even mention it. He just left the book on my dresser and didn't say a word about it to me. I want to say something to him about it, but I'm not sure what to say. I've never really had communication issues with him. But he's never done something like this before.
Edit: My books are the most important thing I own. I probably wouldn't say anything if it was something else.
Posts: 1401 | Registered: Jun 2004
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1. If your books are that important to you that you'll be upset if they are damaged, don't ever loan them out.
2. It might help if you chalk up this bit of destruction against the account of all your father has paid for in your life. If you had to, you could go out and get a new copy of the book. Let it go.
3. I'd be thrilled to have a chance to discuss a book with my father, were he still alive. If we read the same novel and could talk about it, I'd count that as a blessing worth the cost of any book on my shelf or any of my other prized possessions.
4. Sadly, everything physical in this world is destroyed eventually. The fact that you can peg this destruction on a living person encourages some direction to your anger and disappointment over its loss, but really, in the grand scheme of things, it's just a thing.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Bob_Scopatz: NO! Don't say anything!!!
1. If your books are that important to you that you'll be upset if they are damaged, don't ever loan them out.
2. It might help if you chalk up this bit of destruction against the account of all your father has paid for in your life. If you had to, you could go out and get a new copy of the book. Let it go.
3. I'd be thrilled to have a chance to discuss a book with my father, were he still alive. If we read the same novel and could talk about it, I'd count that as a blessing worth the cost of any book on my shelf or any of my other prized possessions.
4. Sadly, everything physical in this world is destroyed eventually. The fact that you can peg this destruction on a living person encourages some direction to your anger and disappointment over its loss, but really, in the grand scheme of things, it's just a thing.
Thanks! I won't say anything then. Regarding #1 though: I usually don't lend out my books, but since it was my dad, I made an exception.
Posts: 1401 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
That's why my dad refuses to borrow books from me. His eyesight is failing, and he can't read the words on the insides of the pages without breaking the spine. It's really a shame, because we read a lot of the same kinds of books--I'm borrowing his copy of Ringworld right now--but he refuses to borrow mine because he knows I wouldn't be happy getting them back with broken spines.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
If he says he liked it, give it to him as a gift.
Ah well. There are some people who are just "hard on books." I'm one such person. I warn people and never actually ask to borrow books from them. I'm horrible. Really. But if someone insists on letting me borrow their book, I still do it. And I've managed to, within the last year:
- get a papercut and bleed profusely over the edge of one book before I noticed. NOTE: a Hydrogen Peroxide bath is not the way to take care of this.
- set a book down on a slanted surface above the toilet at my dentist's office, with predictable results. Since the toilet been just flushed, the water was still clean, so this really would be the equivalent of dropping it in a bathtub or something, right?
- added random condiment or other food smudges to (practically) every book I've read. I mean, I don't even use ketchup. How did it get there? And how could eating granola end up destroying a book? I ask you...granola, on a spoon. No milk. How!!!???
- dog eared. Okay, I use a bookmark. Always. But there was this quotation I didn't want to lose track of...
- packed in luggage. Yes, it was carryon. I just got on a plane with small overheads and had to shove the bag in. Sorry.
- Dropped or rolled over upon because I fell asleep. This is every book I've ever read. I've slept with more literary characters than any other groupie I know. I still have a soft spot for Little Women (but my chiropractor says a few more visits should deal with it).
Ah well... the next time he wants to borrow a book, you'll have to decide whether to loan or not to loan. I personally would just loan the book and never expect to see it again. It's just part of being a family.
PS: I will NOT ask to borrow a book from you. I can feel you cringing way over here!
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
I dog-ear books all the time. My view on it is if the printed words can still be read in order, it's still good. Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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Bookmark? What's that? You mean you put down a book long enough to need to mark the spot?
I treat books very carefully. I can read a paperback several times, and it will still look almost new. I like my books to look nice, so I'm very carefull who I lend them out to. If it comes back messed up, I don't let it bother me. Unless it's *really* messed up.
Posts: 4174 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I get more frustrated when I see books laid open on its pages than I do when I see dogearing, but both cause me to shudder. I'll use just about anything I can find as a bookmark if I don't have one of my normal marks nearby... receipts, Post-its, scraps of newspaper, my train pass, credit cards, even on a couple occasions a pen/pencil! The only thing I refuse to use is the flap of the dustjacket.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I remember when I bought the beautiful paperback of Michael Crichton's Eaters of the Dead, with b&w art in it. Loved the book. But Lavina Fielding Anderson, who worked at the Ensign with me at the time, asked to borrow it. What did I know?
When she returned it it looked like she had used it to wipe up orange juice she had spilled on an asphalt surface, and then accidently ran over it twice with her car. And then read it while eating cotton candy. It was horrible. Pages were coming out of the binding.
And, just like your dad, she said nothing at all about the condition of the book, just, "It was all right, I suppose, but the original was better." Mostly I guess to prove to me that she recognized that it was Beowulf retold. So she wrecks my book AND gives it a snotty review.
That was about the time I vowed never to lend books again. I GIVE books away, and then they don't belong to me anymore so I don't care.
Posts: 2005 | Registered: Jul 1999
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posted
I treat my books horribly and I don't feel bad about it at all. Afterall, what's important is what they say, not how they look. I'd rather be comfortable reading and read a lot then be uncomfortable and never read.
Plus, if I treat a book too horribly, then I am sadly required to make a trip to the bookstore to buy a replacement. This is a punishment that I don't find all that difficult to bear. Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
I loaned out Sarah, before I figured out that you only loan out books you don't mind losing.
It was autographed. Personally, to me. I mean, OSC recognized me and wrote something. I can't, can't believe I loaned it out. And the person I loaned it to skipped town.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Contact this website and let us know your address and, if you remember it, exactly what I wrote. We'll send you another.
(This does not constitute a replacement guarantee to any others, plus more generic legal disclaimers, yadda yadda.)
Posts: 2005 | Registered: Jul 1999
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And I recognize all disclaimers and the fact that I only get one chance to be that dumb and have it be fixed, but thank you. *delighted*
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
My brother used to make people put one hand on the book and say something along the lines of "I swear that I will take good care, and get no hair, on the books of Rob." It made people laugh while being quite clear that he wanted these things back in the same condition they were in when they left his bookshelf.
Posts: 3243 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I treat my books absolutely horribly. But I tend to look at it as a sign of love. The more battered the book, the more I love it. All you have to do is glance at my bookshelf and see which books are my favorite. My copy of Ender's Game is up there. Probably the worst book on my shelf would be A Connecticutt Yankee in King Arthurs Court. That one... barely has a cover anymore. The spines on all of my books are broken, they all have dog eared pages, most of them have covers that have been bent back. The only ones that look new are the ones I've never read... Oh well
And I'm definately with Bob here, I never let people lend me books. Ever.
Though I will happily lend them out. Hmm... I think some of my friends still have various books of mine. I'll have to track those down before i leave for college.
Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Going back to how people mark where they are in books, I don't use a bookmark or dog ear the pages. As far as I know I don't memorize the page I'm on either. I can just open up the book to where I was last reading. Am I the only one who does this? Or do other people "keep track" of their place this way?
Posts: 194 | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
His Savageness, I can do that too. Usually it only takes a few seconds for me to find where I was last reading.
I normally try to use a bookmark, but it's usually a recepit or random bit of paper I found somewhere, when I needed it. Usually when I have to find my spot like you're talking about it's because fell asleep reading and didn't have a chance to mark my spot.
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
If I really love a book, I will buy a second loaner copy of it. I used to loan out my copy of EG, but now that I have it signed by Mr. Card, I just keep it on my nightstand. I bought a new copy to loan out. Yes, people do think it is weird that I loan out the new pristine copy and keep my old battered (but signed) copy. I've got a lot of history (and we have traveled a lot) with that old EG book Posts: 1918 | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Fahim can do that. I, however, use a bookmark. I was perfectly content to dogear them, but now, as a married woman, I have to make compromises with my anal husband.
On the other hand, it's not just a merging of two lives, it's also the merging of two large libraries. Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I had to correct my mom putting my copy of SotG face-down to hold her place. There's also an interesting crease in my copy of Wicked that I think she's also responsible for. That's a trade paperback, so I don't mind *quite* so much. Especially considering how many copies of Mom's books I've destroyed in my lifetime. The least I can do is return the favor.
I've gotten more and more careful, but I think the Harry Potter books just have bad binding--an HP book always breaks after my first time reading it. Don't even get me started on third and fourth readings...
Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
I was borrowing a book once, A Game of Thrones - which I thought was awful and so hadn't finished it. My mum wanted to borrow it off me, which was fine, I had no interest in continuing to read it. Then, when the book was lying innocently in hers and Dads tent (we were camping) along came the puppy.
I now own a coverless Game of Thrones (which I did eventually finish), and I'm not sure if my uncle, who I'd borrowed it from, noticed that the one I (bought to replace and) gave him back has a different cover picture than the one he lent me, since I couldn't find one the same.
... Which brings up the issue of why covers of books are changed anyway. Usually the original cover was better, and it makes the book harder to recognise. AND it means you can't sneakily replace the book if something happens to it! :mutter:
In any case, I don't think you should tell your dad. If you lend him a book again, just ask him to be careful - if he can't/won't, just accept that and either say you'd rather not lend books anymore, or be prepared to have your books back in worse condition.
In saying that, if it was MY Dad, I'd probably tell him! Heh. I don't think he'd mind and he'd take more care next time. If he'd done that, he probably didn't even notice himself.
... *rambles*
[Edit] Oh yeah and I dogear books sometimes, use bookmarks sometimes, and lay books page-down open sometimes. All my books look nearly new. Posts: 69 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I'm with you Alcon - the more a book is loved, the worse it looks!
Mind you, none of my books are coverless or illegible. Just a bit creased, a few broken spines and the odd tea spill.
(My doona has tea stains as well. One of the casualties of a Sunday morning spent in bed with cups of tea and a good book - but the experience is worth it. )
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
What Bob didn't tell you is that all of those books he destroyed were mine. But I married him anyway.
I have a sort of "velveteen rabbit" attitude about books -- the worse they look the more they're loved. I have a paperback Bible that's held together with duct tape -- I bought it for camping so I wouldn't ruin any of the nice hardback and leather covered ones. I bring it when we present Bibles to third graders in church. I tell them that lots of people are going to tell them to take good care of their new Bibles. And that that is good advice -- they should take good care of them -- not leave them out in the rain (or drop them in toilets), not let the dog eat them, etc. But that much, much, more important than taking good care of them is reading them. And that if they wear their Bible out because they're using it I'll happily buy them another one. I'd even rather see it accidentally left out in the rain than in perfect condition because it never comes off the shelf.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
In fact, dkw insists that I read her books. Then she laughs at me for destroying them. I warned her.
Really!
One other thing about damaged books. I enjoy going to used bookstores and often pick up freebies or 25-cent books as a way to acquire stuff I wasn't sure if I'd ever want to spend money on. Usually these are things that are plain falling apart.
My best find so far has been a PG Wodehouse paperback that is one of his funniest ever. Ah bliss. Free...
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
I'm old fashioned enough to be suitably reverent toward books. I am very careful with them; I never dog-ear them, I never write in the margins, I never set them down without ensuring the surface is safe first, and I never leave them open when I'm not using them (unless they are big heavy hardbacks that stay open with the pages up by their own weight).
However, I draw the line at bookmarks. I can scarcely think of any purchase that would be a bigger waste of money than buying a bookmark. Assuming you frequent reputable bookstores, any book you buy will come with a receipt, and that can do all the same things a specially-crafted bookmark can do, and they don't even charge you for it.
Of course, even if you don't take good care of your own books, beating up a borrowed book is another matter entirely. If you don't have respect for books, you should at least have respect for the fact that this object currently in your possession does not belong to you. If you can't even have the basic human decency to try to make sure my property doesn't get destroyed when I've been generous enough to let you borrow it, then I can't see any reason why I should ever loan you anything, ever, period. Few things make me angrier than betraying the trust of borrowing an item.
That's also a large part of the reason why I never, never, NEVER loan my CDs to anyone. I seem to be the only person on this planet who actually handles them correctly, and always makes sure to put them back in their case the moment I am done with them. Leaving them out exposed is reckless. I don't care how often you have to replace your own damaged CDs; I'll be damned if I'm going to let myself get in the position of replacing mine because you don't know how to handle them.
(Disclaimer: Every instance of the word "you" in this post is for rhetorical purposes only. None of them are referring to any specific individual.)
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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And even though I use "bookmarks" I've never bought one; I use pieces of notepaper usually, which is also convenient when I'm reading more than one book at once or want to mark more than one place in a book. As I said though, I dogear at will. Not in someone else's book if it's previously un-dogeared though.
I'm careful with books but not pedantic about it - I also agree that a worn book looks much loved, however I try not to deliberately let them get like that.
I wouldn't be too bothered by someone returning my book in less than pristine condition, as long as it was still readable. If the pages were falling out I'd probably be annoyed. Especially if some of the pages were MISSING! There's nothing worse than getting to the end of a book and realising the last five pages are just not there. But yeah as long as it's still good, it doesn't need to be perfect.
I really don't like lending things to people and not getting them back, though. Especially if they try to say they already gave them back, or worse, that they never borrowed it in the first place.
[Edit] Hey nixy! I also borrow from the library and only buy books that I like. I maybe have two books that I haven't read... Not counting all the law texts that I'm supposed to have read.
Posts: 69 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I tend not to be very careful with my books; I also think that the worse the condition of a book on my shelf, the more times I've read it and the more I love it. The only time I've ever been upset with a book of mine being messed up was with my fifth HP book. You see, I was working as a camp couselor, and I'd managed to get it the day it came out because the camp closes every other weekend. I knew that bringing it to camp, it would probably get dirt and whatnot on it, which doesn't really bother me. But once I'd finished with it my friend asked if she could borrow it because her copy was at home and she didn't want to bring it to camp because she was afraid it would get dirty. But since mine was already there.... When I got it back at the end of the summer there was a lovely dark splotch on the cover ("I think I left a starburst sitting on top of it and it must have melted in the heat"). The worst part? I don't think she even got through the first chapter. If she had been reading it and spilled something on it that would be one thing, but to ruin a book without even reading it...
posted
When it comes to the latest HP, I'm a bad person... I downloaded a bootleg ebook off the internet to read.
In my defense, I didn't read it before the book was released, and I made sure it was genuine by comparing the text with the hardcover copy I had purchased from Amazon. I didn't want to read from my copy. (I wanted it to sit nicely on my bookshelf with the others!) I'm horrible that way.
Oh, and hi keewee Posts: 494 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
You know, as much as I don't mind worn-looking books, I absolutely detest writing in books. I couldn't buy used textbooks in college because I couldn't stand to see the margin notes and underlines and highlighter.
I didn't mind that Bob dropped my book in the toilet, but if he ever opens a highlighter near one of my books I'll divorce him.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I once loaned a book to my sister and she took it to school. When she gave it back to me there was a pen mark on one page. I was so mad. But then my mom pointed out that if i didn't want anything to happen to my books I should not take them out of the house or even off the shelf. At that point I deceided that it was better to have to bood read and mark a little than to just gather dust.
I think that you shoudl be careful and respectful of other peoples things. And to return them in as good shape.
Remember that people are more important than things.
Posts: 747 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
I understand that, dkw. That grade-school memtality of not writing in books has stuck with me in every way.
Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003
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If I have the forsight (and didn't buy the book myself), I write the name of the person who gave me the book and the date it was given in the very first page.
Actually, I've only done it to one book that my mom gave me for my birthday. But when I look in it, I wax nostalgic and it gives me warm fuzzies.
Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:Originally posted by dkw: You know, as much as I don't mind worn-looking books, I absolutely detest writing in books. I couldn't buy used textbooks in college because I couldn't stand to see the margin notes and underlines and highlighter.
I didn't mind that Bob dropped my book in the toilet, but if he ever opens a highlighter near one of my books I'll divorce him.
TSK! Didn't they teach you anything in premarital counseling? You're never supposed to use that word.
What you should have said is, ". . . if he ever opens a highlighter near one of my books I'll kill him. And they'll never find the body."
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote: I'll kill him. And they'll never find the body
I've taken to hiding things that Nathan leaves out in the middle of the floor. I only hide them if I've asked him to put it away or have tripped over it more than once. Now, hiding the BODY...
Back to books, if I've borrowed someone's, I take very good care of it. It's someone else's property that they've trusted me with, and I won't misuse it.
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Verily the Younger: That's also a large part of the reason why I never, never, NEVER loan my CDs to anyone. I seem to be the only person on this planet who actually handles them correctly, and always makes sure to put them back in their case the moment I am done with them. Leaving them out exposed is reckless. I don't care how often you have to replace your own damaged CDs; I'll be damned if I'm going to let myself get in the position of replacing mine because you don't know how to handle them.
I leave my cds out and exposed all the time. For a couple of reasons.
One: I have a TON of them. No really, I have a whole lot of them. Game cds, sampler cds, mac addict cds, burned music and game cds. More than I can count really. And I have duplicates of many of them. I have long since lost the cases of these things. I have a couple of cd books I try to keep them in, but I often find that the act of putting them in to and taking them out of a cd book often scratches them about as much as leaving them out.
Two: A cd will run, even when its scratched to heck and back. I've since cds that were so criss crossed with scratches that it appeared as if a cat had used them as a scratching post run as if they were brand new with out a scratch. Really, a scratch on a cd isn't that big a deal.
Finally: Most of the cds I use are game or music cds and I find the content on said cds is often easily replacable over the net via no-cd cracks or just plain downloading.
So in short: I don't see the need for such reverance of care of a small plastic disk that contains binary data that is easily copiable and easily replacable and not nearly as easily broken as many would have you believe.
Just my $0.02 on the subject of cd care
On a side note: When I do borrow cds (rare), its at a LAN party and the owner is right there. The borrowing never lasts more than an hour at most, just the time it takes to either use the cd to install a game and then crack it, or rip the music from the cd. So the issue of care never really comes up. The entire time the cd is borrowed it is in the cd drive of my computer Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
I dogear my own books. I loaned books to a neighbor in an apartment building once ... he didn't dogear them. He ripped part of the back cover off to mark his spot. Now, I would have preferred that he dogear them, of course.
He had other disturbing qualities, as well. Posts: 2034 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
I'm a perfectionist when it comes to my books. But I am also a member of a book loving family and quickly learned that if I allowed the other book lovers to read my books they would let me read their books in return This does lead to some problems; my father travels a lot, which is very hard on books (not to mention all the books he has left on airplanes). My sister has an amazing talent for making books disappear, I just bought my third copy of Ender's Game last week, and my second copy of By the Sword has yet to be replaced.
And then I developed an affection for little rodents who love paper above all else (my local library has some beautiful new books thanks to my slow learning curve on chinchilla-proofing the room)
But I agree, as long as the book is still readable, and you know your friends/family members enjoyed the book it is best to consider most (key word "most") wear and tear the marks of love
Posts: 29 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Alcon: I leave my cds out and exposed all the time. For a couple of reasons. [. . .]
One: I have a ton of CDs, too. And they're all different. So having one destroyed would still be a pain, because it would have to be replaced.
Oh, and having lost the cases? I consider that rather careless, too.
Two: A person can survive having the crap kicked out of them, too, but that doesn't mean I think people should go ahead and do it. A scratch on a CD may not do as much damage as a scratch on a vinyl record, but a CD will still last longer if you take care of it.
Finally: Having the ability to illegally re-acquire the contents of a destroyed CD is no substitute for taking care of the original. Sure, I could steal a book from a bookstore to replace my damaged copy, but that's not exactly ethical, is it? Since I'm not the sort of person who steals things, any book--or CD--I have that gets damaged will have to be replaced by my purchasing a new copy. And since I'm not fabulously wealthy, I'd rather not have to spend money on the same thing twice. So I take care of my things to avoid being put in the situation of having to replace them.
Posts: 1814 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Typically I'm pretty good with books. But every so often something happens that I didn't know about/do that gets put on me or something happens by accident.
For example our family's copy of Red Prophet was getting kind of old. The front cover was starting to get weak and kind of flimsy. Well one day our dog, (Which just has to dash into my room every time the door is opened.) Ran over the book and um... well lets say that I couldn't find it for a while. When I did, I didn't know it at first. I had grabbed the front cover of a book that I didn't know what it was to, and um... well a text book was on top of it, so a single word should describe it. Rip.
Now, have you ever noticed how there's blank pages in the back of books? Well, I um... took advantage of that once in a fairly evil way. There was a kid who really wanted to read the book I was after I was done with it. I basically told him that if he really wanted to read it, he'd have to wait until I'm done. Well, he kept begging so I took the book, opened it to one of those blank pages and um... ripped it out. Thankfully it was my own copy, but I swear the kid was going to have a heart attack.
Personally, what I do instead of book marks or dog-earing is I memorize what page number I'm on. For example, in Shadow of the Giant, I'm on 207. And Jonathan Livingston Seagull, I'm on page 3... I really should get around to fininshing that one. Or romeo and Juliet, I'm on Act 2, scene 2.
As for getting foreign objects like condiments stuck in the pages, I've never had a problem with that.
I also admit to not taking care of my Cds as well as I should, but when it comes to other peoples, I'm pretty carefull.
Posts: 1831 | Registered: Jan 2003
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