We have already told Betty that there is a place here for her anytime she may want to come back (which is code for, "when he's gone".)
To Mrs.M, answers to questions .....
Q: TL, how attached are you to this job? How easy would it be for you to quit and find another, comparable job?
A: I am impossibly, terribly attached. It would be very easy to find a comparable job, but if I can help make things better at this company, this is where I want to be.
Q: Whom did he joke with? Was it just you or was it with other employees at his same level or under him? Did he do it on company property or while you and he were socializing elsewhere?
A: He just joked with me, for the most part. Both at work and socially. He never said a word to the staff, because that would have given him away.
Q: Did the affair take place while he was her supervisor? Was she coerced? Did they have any relations on company property?
A: Yes, he was her supervisor. Yes, they fooled around on company property. I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "coerced" but I'm thinking no. She was not promised promotions or raises or anything like that.
Q: I assume you mean that she informed them that he was harassing her. What kind of harassment reporting does your company have? Ideally, there should be a form in the workplace manual, which each employee should have read and signed at the beginning of his or her tenure. What exactly was the nature of her complaint and to whom did she complain?
A: At my company, harassment reporting procedures are as follows: Complaints are made directly to legal counsel and when investigations are ongoing ALL involved parties are instructed not to discuss the situation at work until the investigation is complete. This is to protect the anonymity of the person making the complaint. The nature of her complaint was, in a nutshell, that he convinced her that the company policy against fraternization was silly, and they should be secret friends outside of work. Eventually he started putting pressure on her to have an affair with him. He told her horror stories of his wife, and she said she felt sorry for him and liked the attention he gave her, so -- she caved. It only went on for a couple of weeks but when she ended it, he turned on her. And there's a lot of stuff in there about him grabbing her butt, saying nasty things to her at work, etc. (While it was going on, not afterwards). This is one of the things that led to her ending the relationship; his attentions made her very uncomfortable and she was unhappy with herself that she would fool around with a married man anyway. I also wrote a complaint at the same time she did; mine was basically everything I knew that supported her statement. The things Jay told me about the affair, the joking, the things he told me about his intentions to pursue Betty. And also laying out the way his behavior had become retaliatory toward Dot at work.
Q: Well, what he did to Betty (and possibly Dot) is illegal. It's blatant sexual harassment. Did he tell you on company property? If so, did it make you feel uncomfortable? Also, did Betty report anything? If so, to whom? The proper person would be her supervisor or, if the harasser is her supervisor, the supervisor's supervisor or a HR person. This should be clearly outlined in the employee manual
A: Yes, he told me on company property. Yes, it made me feel totally uncomfortable, especially after I found out about him and Dot! When he told me about Betty, that was the end of my friendship with him. And the moment that I decided to write my statement to legal counsel. What happened with Betty finding out is, there is a particular staff member that Jay trusts above all reason; he tells her everything. (This is the same individual who informed me about the tire-slashing.) Well, he told this girl (I have tried to keep her out of this thread but let's call her "Meg") everything. Meg, being concerned, then told Betty. And Betty freaked out, because suddenly his too-friendly behavior towards her made perfect sense, and she did not like it. Meg, when she made her report to the boss about the tire-slashing, also admitted that Jay had told her everything he knew about the investigation and that she had told Betty what was going on. At this point the boss just kept rubbing his temple and going "This needs to end now. This needs to end yesterday." So the boss actually approached Betty, and he told her, "We know what's going on, and it's being taken care of. I can't tell you any more than that, but you don't have to worry." Poor Betty waited something like 4 weeks and nothing has been done about it. I don't blame her for leaving.
Q: Why do you know so much about what went on in the investigation? And who is conducting the investigation. It seems pretty slipshod to me.
A: The investigation is being conducted "on the ground" by my boss. I know so much about it because Jay has loose lips, talks to the staff about this though he has been instructed not to, and that information gets back to me through the occasional furious staff member. They are furious with me for what they have been led to believe is my "betrayal" of Jay. I handle these situations by saying, "What have you heard? From whom? When? Under what circumstances? Okay, thank you for telling me. No, in fact it is something I simply cannot discuss." Further inquiries are answered with, "I can't comment on any of this. If you are really concerned, I invite you to discuss this with the boss." I agree that it's totally shoddy and inappropriate for the staff to know ANYTHING about this. But it is not because of the investigator that they know.
Q: This is really, really bad. This goes way beyond a hostile workplace environment. Now you have 5 women with very strong harassment complaints against your company. Six weeks is far too long for an investigation.
A: I could not agree more.
Q: This could not be a less appropriate and illegal way to handle the situation. I am appalled. Not only is keeping sexual predators away from women not in anyone's job description (at your company, I assume), but it's an impossible task. You can't be everywhere all the time and I'm sure he could corner someone at some point. Your company has an obligation to create a safe work environment for all of its employees and it is failing miserably.
A: I agree, but that is what we have been told to do and we are trying our damndest to do it. You see, if it was up to any of us, this would have been handled swiftly and quietly.
Q: Are you sure you did everything correctly? Did you follow company protocol to the letter? Did you report the harassment immediately upon learning of it, or did you wait? If you waited, how long?
A: Fairly sure. Yes, for my part I followed protocol to the letter. I reported what I knew properly and to the correct people, and I have cooperated with the investigation on every level. However, I *did* wait. It was about 3 days between the time he told me what he planned to do to Betty and the time I reported him. I just wasn't sure if he really meant it. I didn't know about Dot until the following day; it was when I knew that he had already done this with Dot that I realized he was serious about Betty. After that I and Dot both made our separate reports the following day.
Q: HUGE mistake. They will have no defense when the sexual harassment lawsuits are filed. What kind of HR department does your company have?
A: This is my first real exposure to that particular department. Personally I'm less than thrilled. I've never been more miserable at work and the morale among the employees is horrible. And all of these problems could have been avoided if this had just been handled quickly. And I don't discount myself in the "hostile work environment" equation, either, just for the record. If the girls did decide to sue, just between you and me, I would support them in any way I could.
------------------------------------------------------ Okay, Mrs.M, thank you for taking the time to thoughtfully consider my problems. I really do appreciate it. I look forward to hearing what you might have to say about my responses to your questions, if anything.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
I just read the whole thread and the timeline of what I knew when I knew it sounds very muddled. So I will try to lay it out very clearly. I heard his jokes from the moment he walked in the door. Never took him seriously. He told me about Betty on 4-18-05. I found out about Dot on 4-19-05. Dot and I both made our separate reports (via email) on 4-20-05. (I just went back and checked my copy of the complaint.)
It's important to me that I am not contributing to the "hostile work environment," especially for the girls. I am trying to support them in every way that I can, while at the same time doing what the company asks me.
Do you think I am contributing to the problem? And if so, what steps might I take to correct that, in your opinion? If any....
posted
You sadi that he joked with you in private about them, and while it make you feel unsocfortable, you didn't do anything about it for a long time, until you found out other behavior problems.
I would have made sure from the start that not even th jokes were OK,,adn that if he continued I would have to report him.
That is realy all I could see that you should have done different.
posted
I don't disagree with you. The truth is I think I messed in several ways, and that is one of the main ones.
Posts: 2267 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
If they don't fire this idiot tomorrow, I'd consider taking a copy of Mrs. M's responce and giving it to your manager, the HR Dept, and more.
This guy sounds like the type that assumes the world revolves around him. Anything you do or his wife does or Dot does is in response to him, getting revenge or being jealous or simply about him. As long as he can't look beyond himself he is going to cause trouble for everyone and not care.
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quote:A: He just joked with me, for the most part. Both at work and socially. He never said a word to the staff, because that would have given him away.
What do you mean by "for the most part?" You are going to have to be more precise if you are deposed. It's good that he didn't "joke" to the staff.
quote:A: Yes, he was her supervisor. Yes, they fooled around on company property. I'm not 100% sure what you mean by "coerced" but I'm thinking no. She was not promised promotions or raises or anything like that.
It's pretty bad that he was her supervisor and that they fooled around on company property. By coerced I mean, was she threatened with negative action (demotion, dismissal, etc.) if she didn't have intercourse with him?
quote:A: At my company, harassment reporting procedures are as follows: Complaints are made directly to legal counsel and when investigations are ongoing ALL involved parties are instructed not to discuss the situation at work until the investigation is complete.... And also laying out the way his behavior had become retaliatory toward Dot at work.
This is odd. In fact, I've never heard of a reporting procedure like this. The usual procedure is: verbal warning, written warning, termination (all witnessed by the person's supervisor and an HR person and documented). Is the legal counsel the general counsel for the company or is it a labor law attorney on retainer for the company? The reason I ask is that it is very important for your company to have a labor law attorney dealing with this situation. Lawywers specialize, just like doctors. You wouldn't go to a dermatologist with a broken bone, just like you wouldn't go to a corporate attorney with a labor law situation. Also, I think that Dot would have a hard time making a case that she was coerced - Jay's lawyers could make a convincing case that she was a voluntary participant.
quote:So the boss actually approached Betty, and he told her, "We know what's going on, and it's being taken care of. I can't tell you any more than that, but you don't have to worry." Poor Betty waited something like 4 weeks and nothing has been done about it.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. I have to wonder what kind of HR training your company gives its supervisory staff, if any. Unless your boss is in HR, he should not be handling this situation and he should not have said anything unless he had taken action against Jay.
quote:A: The investigation is being conducted "on the ground" by my boss.
Geez Louise. Unless your boss is in HR or has had adequate HR training (both of which I doubt), he should not be conducting this investigation. Frankly, he is botching it, although possibly through no fault of his own.
quote:Yes, for my part I followed protocol to the letter. I reported what I knew properly and to the correct people, and I have cooperated with the investigation on every level. However, I *did* wait. It was about 3 days between the time he told me what he planned to do to Betty and the time I reported him. I just wasn't sure if he really meant it. I didn't know about Dot until the following day; it was when I knew that he had already done this with Dot that I realized he was serious about Betty. After that I and Dot both made our separate reports the following day.
That's fine. It was perfectly reasonable to wait and you followed company protocol (however muddled and inadequate they may be). I wouldn't worry.
I'm sorry you like this job, but I want you to consider your decision to stay with this company. There are 4 women (Betty and the 3 girls he "inspected") who have excellent grounds for a successful lawsuit against this company. Losing a lawsuit can ruin a company - it is financially devastating. It's not just the settlement - the attorney fees are staggering. If the company survives, they often have to make significant cutbacks. If Jay is not fired tomorrow, I would walk out of there.
You're certainly welcome to share any of what I've written with your company. However, I want to stress that I am not, nor have I ever been, an attorney nor am I a paralegal or an HR exec. anymore.
posted
You asked a couple more questions, so I will answer them. No, Dot was not coerced. "Just me, for the most part" means: occasionally he would crack these jokes when we were around other friends. People who did not work with us. At work, just me.
In terms of company policy, the lawyer to whom these reports were made is not general counsel for the company. He is employed by my company and handling harassment complaints is all he does. He is located in another state so he handles these cases by instructing an appointed individual to run the investigation (in this case my boss). Tells them what questions to ask, who to talk to, etc. Then he takes the information he gets from the investigator, and makes a report. This report is used in making the decision about what kind of action to take.
If I understand correctly, when my boss fires Jay, he will do so using specific language which will be given to him by the lawyer.
Thanks for your all of your well-wishes and sweet, sweet advice. I will update this if and when anything is resolved.
Oh, and by the way Mrs.M, although it would be easy for me to find a comparable job elsewhere, doing so would set me back 2 years. (I can't really explain why without getting into specific details of the industry in which I work.)
I will do it if I have no other choice.
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