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Author Topic: Please, a message, that's all we need.
Ramdac99
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I was having a discussion about politics with a friend of mine. More specifically we were discussing the political and sociological ramifications of the replacement of Sandra Day O'Connor in the Supreme Court. Many people believe that the seat should be filled with someone who could play a similar role as O'Connor. Namely, her being a Judicial Centrist and a swing vote on many decisions. My friend responded with: "He [Bush] can appoint whoever he wants, he doesn't HAVE to appoint a Centrist, that's just the Democrats thinking they have a say". I disagreed. Ever since she was appointed in 1981 by Ronald Regan, she has been a key player in many decisions that would have fallen differently if a Judicially conservative Justice had been in her position. There are Republicans who would agree, especially women. The fact that my friend took such an adamantly anti-democratic and non-pro-Republican stance got me thinking. I posed to him this question: "do you love Republicans, or do you just hate Democrats", to which he responded "I really don't know".

Herein lies the problem. It seems that our two party system is pushing voters into their corners not because the voters completely agree with their party, but because they despise the other side. This realization made me see how twisted up and bent over on itself the Democratic party really is in America today. With all the distaste for conservative republicans that exists among younger voters coupled with the fact that the Democrats have been able to be considered "liberal" which is always good in the eyes of the same demographic, all the democrats would have needed to win an election was a cogent message. Just a statement that summarized what they "stand for". I now have come to realize that we don't have a Democratic president not because the Republicans ran a terrific series of campaigns, but because they had a message. they stood for something. With the occurrence of 9/11, Republicans got another message, "Homeland Security". The Democrats, having been ill prepared for such an event, and having already been rooted deeply in a platform of lower military spending, were caught with their pants down.

Getting people to hate the other party will only get your party so far. A citizen cannot look a political leader and say "he hates who I hate and that's good enough". that's not good enough. The enemy of my enemy can only be my friend until he becomes my enemy. Ties must be made to a citizens views on policies and the future of the country. It is these ties that bind one to one's political party. It is also these views that will be conceded to by the other party in times of political compromise. What can republicans give to Democrats that is at the core of the Democratic ideology? The answer is nothing because right now the democrats have no core except the hatred of Republicans.

In the coming years I would like to see a complete and total overhaul of the Democratic Party. Only when Democrats feel tied together by similar views of policy, law making, and the future of the country will they ever have the power necessary to "have a say".

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Annie
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I think that the problem is that, constitutionally, the President's power to appoint judges is his check on the judicial branch. If you were to ask the founding fathers, they would probably say that the President most definitely gets to appoint whomever he pleases.

The only problem being that the founding fathers probably weren't envisioning the two-party system that we've dug ourselves into.

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Annie
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In my ideal America, I'd like to see coalitions of like-minded parties rather than two huge conglomerates that split up all the issues between them like two bully kids divvying up candy. Other nations (France, for one) have more than two parties, but have alliances of parties that tend to work together on the issues that they share concern over.

Why can't I be a fiscal democrat without having to jump on board with their moral stances? I would be all for a lot of what the democrats stand for - social equity, universal healthcare and education - if I didn't have to sign up to vote for people who support abortion. By picking a side, on either side, I'm aligning myself with a party who is partially in agreement with me and partially diametrically opposed. By calling myself a moderate, I'm saying that I have mild, watered down beliefs, but I'm probably one of the more extreme idealists around.

It's so frustrating. I want to "have a say", but I don't want to have to align myself with people who support things that I adamantly oppose to do so. Once again, though, this is a nation of millions, and change is not an easy thing to implement by policy. It only comes when individual people change their own outlooks.

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WheatPuppet
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Annie: Move to Vermont and split your ticket. 80% of people here feel the same way you do. Or, at least they used to, until Howard whipped up all the sortaliberals into a tempest of anti-moderates.

Next November I'll be voting for an Independent-Socialist for Senator, a Democrat for Lt. Governor and a Republican for Governor. I'm pretty sure each candidate I vote for will be elected. I love my state. [Smile]

National politics are so filled with rhetoric that I don't even follow it in great detail anymore. I don't expect to get anything good out of the open supreme court seat because I don't like the people in the executive branch who have the power to appoint someone.

The way our supreme court justices are picked is rather antifederalist. I'm not sure the Founding Fathers thought we'd have a party system quite like we do, nor did they think the supreme court have the powers that it currently has.

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katharina
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Dobie not being posted: "Please, a massage, that's all I need"
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WheatPuppet
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Wouldn't that be, "Please, a massage, that's all I knead"? [Wink]
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Scott R
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>>if I didn't also have to sign up for denying the rights of women, homosexuals, and non-Christians.

The thing I don't like about the Democratic party is that they are pro-infanticide, anti-family, and pro-atheism.

Or are they?

[Big Grin]

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TL
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NO. [Frown]
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Annie
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Heh. I think we should all try to describe our personal beliefs in the most derogatory spinnish way we can.

I'm an anti-business, pro-hereticical religious fanaticism, UnAmerican bigot.

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Dagonee
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quote:
I'm pretty much the exact opposite of Annie. I'd be in favor of a lot of the conservative ideals of small government and fiscal responsibility if I didn't also have to sign up for denying the rights of women, homosexuals, and non-Christians.
So abortion is the only thing we disagree on? [Wink]
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WheatPuppet
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quote:
The sad thing is, Dr. Dean is one of those sortaliberals.
Well, he used to be one until national politics broke him. He used to be a conservative Democrat strong-man. Now he's a liberal somethingorother. I stopped paying attention when he stopped being amusing.

Unfortunately, he can't become a normal person again until he gets this whole presidential thing out of his system. *sigh*

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Enigmatic
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I love Annie's idea! That probably deserves its own thread. Let's see...

I'm a druggie socialist godless hippie-wuss!

I could probably do better than that if I gave it some more thought.

--Enigmatic

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King of Men
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Speaking of founding fathers :

quote:
There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, it to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution."

—John Adams


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WheatPuppet
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And more!
quote:
There are two methods of curing the mischiefs of faction: the one, by removing its causes; the other, by controlling its effects.

There are again two methods of removing the causes of faction: the one, by destroying the liberty which is essential to its existence; the other, by giving to every citizen the same opinions, the same passions, and the same interests.

It could never be more truly said than of the first remedy, that it was worse than the disease. Liberty is to faction what air is to fire, an aliment without which it instantly expires. But it could not be less folly to abolish liberty, which is essential to political life, because it nourishes faction, than it would be to wish the annihilation of air, which is essential to animal life, because it imparts to fire its destructive agency.

The second expedient is as impracticable as the first would be unwise. As long as the reason of man continues fallible, and he is at liberty to exercise it, different opinions will be formed. As long as the connection subsists between his reason and his self-love, his opinions and his passions will have a reciprocal influence on each other; and the former will be objects to which the latter will attach themselves. The diversity in the faculties of men, from which the rights of property originate, is not less an insuperable obstacle to a uniformity of interests. The protection of these faculties is the first object of government.
...
The inference to which we are brought is, that the CAUSES of faction cannot be removed, and that relief is only to be sought in the means of controlling its EFFECTS.
...
The influence of factious leaders may kindle a flame within their particular States, but will be unable to spread a general conflagration through the other States. A religious sect may degenerate into a political faction in a part of the Confederacy; but the variety of sects dispersed over the entire face of it must secure the national councils against any danger from that source. A rage for paper money, for an abolition of debts, for an equal division of property, or for any other improper or wicked project, will be less apt to pervade the whole body of the Union than a particular member of it; in the same proportion as such a malady is more likely to taint a particular county or district, than an entire State.

In the extent and proper structure of the Union, therefore, we behold a republican remedy for the diseases most incident to republican government. And according to the degree of pleasure and pride we feel in being republicans, ought to be our zeal in cherishing the spirit and supporting the character of Federalists.
--James Madison, Federalist 10

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/histdox/fed_10.html

Become a federalist, like me!

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UofUlawguy
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I'm a fence-sitting, wishy-washy, convictionless loser.
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WheatPuppet
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Oh yeah? Well, I'm a confederate isolationist libertarian fundamentalist.
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TL
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I'm a rabidly anti-American Socialist baby killer who hates God and heterosexual values.

.... From the Bible.

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Scott R
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That's a wonderful idea, Annie!

I'm a knee-jerk communist bigot cultist patriarch!

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aspectre
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Vote Republican
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TomDavidson
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I'm a radically anti-God, America-hating, selfish fat cat.
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James Tiberius Kirk
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quote:
Originally posted by King of Men:
Speaking of founding fathers :

quote:
There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties, each arranged under its leader, and concerting measures in opposition to each other. This, in my humble apprehension, it to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution."

—John Adams


John Adams was a wise man.

--j_k

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