posted
I smoke marijuana, I enjoy marijuana. I generally come home after work, smoke some, have some dinner, play some video games/watch TV and go to sleep. Whenever it seems to me that weed is negatively effecting my life, I stop smoking, for awhile. But, poor timing has made it so that my "hobby" might totally screw up a better job offer.
I was just rethinking my attitude towards pot and thought it would make a good discussion.
I have known people who centered their lives around pot, making it a true addiction and a Bad Thing TM. But I know these people, they are screwed up and would find another crutch, possibly a worse crutch, if it wasn't for pot.
Many drugs have a large health risk. Even legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco are worse on your body than weed. There is also the fact that most "drugs" have to be refined, or processed, where as weed is 100% natural. Not to mention I've heard of many many drunken fights, but never someone getting in a fight after smoking a joint.
Originally in the 30s, marijuana was pushed into the illegal category by the big business drugs, pharmaceutics, alcohol and tobacco. Weed is truly a weed, able to push other plants out of its way. Anyone could grow it. It would be hard to make a profit on it. So, bang, illegal.
Much like the prohibition of 1920's, marijuana is being used coast to coast, in every city and state in the US.
Even legislation has backed off the punishment of marijuana users. In California, getting caught with pot amounts to the same as a speeding ticket.
I knew a nice lady, she was the mother of a girl I was dating a couple years back. She had cancer, and was dying. The only way she could have an appetite or dull some of the pain was to smoke marijuana. She passed away, but her last few months were tolerable, because of pot.
Anyway, those are some of my thoughts. What are yours?
quote: Originally in the 30s, marijana was pushed into the illigal catigory by the big bussines drugs, pharmisudicals, alcohal and tobaco
Were you high when you typed that sentence? I have to imagine that even high, I'd still be able to proof read.
And though I think this topic has been beaten to death, I'll toss in my two cents again.
I think marijuana should be legalized, taxed, and regulated, just like cigarettes (which I think should be outlawed, or taxed into oblivion) and alcohol. I'll let someone else post the pro/con arguments.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:Originally in the 30s, marijana was pushed into the illigal catigory by the big bussines drugs, pharmisudicals, alcohal and tobaco
With correct spelling:
quote:Originally in the 30s, marijuana was pushed into the illegalcategory by the big business drugs, pharmaceuticals, alcohol and tobacco
And I wonder if you wanted to say businesses and start an enumeration, or if the word "like" is missing there, or what?
Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Thanks Corwin, I did spell check the post, but have a bad Internet connection and it must have...I don't know...I wasn't worried about spelling because I spell checked it.
Guess in all the copy and pasting the original unchecked version made publication. I know, shame shame.
Posts: 6683 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Like most illicit substances, you're going to have three groups: the people who are against it for whatever reason, the people who use the drug responsibly, and the people who use the drug irresponsibly.
Marijuana has the benefit of not being physically addictive (unlike tobacco, alcohol and most harder drugs), but there's no hard evidence regarding psychological addiction - but I don't expect there to be, since you can get psychologically addicted to near anything, imho (like HATRACK, ugh, I tripled my post count in the past four days).
I'm all for legalization, as long as it's regulated the same way alcohol and tobacco are. There should be an age restriction, and strict penalties for providing it to minors or underage use, not to mention driving under the influence. It should be taxed, and everyone wins - crime would drop, tax revenue would be up, etc.
The way it stands now makes no sense to me, at all: pot is ridiculously easy to get anywhere in the United States at any time. When I was in highschool, it was much easier to get weed (or any drug, for that matter) than it was to get alcohol.
[Edit]
Marijuana gets called a gateway drug fairly often, but I fail to see how it's more conducive to harder substances than alcohol is. Tons of the kids who drank in high school / college smoked their first cigarette while drinking, and many smoked their first joint at some point afterward - and almost all of them stopped right there. There were a couple idiots who went and tried everything under the sun, but for a lot of people (or maybe just the ones I knew and/or saw), that was the limit - anything harder was too hard for them. I think society has done a good job of negative reinforcement when it comes to the harder drugs: we associate pot with rastafarian movements and stoner flicks, but we associate cocaine, crack and heroine with high profile crime, drug cartels, people getting shot at, arrested, etc.
Interestingly, hallucinogens (shrooms, acid, pcp, salvia, etc.) seem to be independent: people either use them or don't, and I never noticed a correlation between them and any other drug, with the possible exception of shrooms & salvia (which is legal anyway), which are rapidly becoming more socially acceptable and more widely experimented with (especially by the "naturalist" crowd, since it's not refined or processed in any way).
The weird one is ecstacy. Its popularity was very sudden and very widespread, and a lot of people were making very uninformed decisions about whether or not to use it. A lot of people didn't realize that because it's refined (and from completely legal individual substances), a lot of weird and potentially very dangerous stuff goes into it. A lot of kids got hurt, and in really terrible ways: massive brain damage, throwing up blood, lots of really nasty stuff.
And that's one problem with marijuana as it is: although most of it's pure, some of it gets laced with synthetics, and most people don't know how to recognize it and aren't prepared for the consequences. This would also be solved by legalization: if marijuana were distributed through business and regulated by the government, there would be standards and laws about what can and can't go in it, testing, and then you would know if you had clean marijuana purely if you bought it in packaging from a reputable business.
In any case, everyone using or considering using any substance should research it first: I recommend www.erowid.org, which contains more information than I even know what to do with.
posted
There are problems with marijuana use today:
1) If you are caught, it is an illegal substance, and so you'll have a record with law enforcement. That record can follow you and do mean nasty things to your life. Unfair? Sure. But there you have it.
2) In some parts of the country, where the seizure laws have been interpreted somewhat liberally, over-zealous law enforcement types have been known to confiscate houses and cars of people who considered themselves "casual users" of marijuana. The way the seizure laws work, there is no presumption of innocence and you just basically have to figure out a big a bribe (oops, I mean penalty) the sheriff (usually it's a sheriff) is going to take before you get your property back.
3) If you ever intend (or think you might want) to get a secret clearance (or above), there's a question on the form that talks about illegal drug use. You have two options here. Tell the truth and risk not getting your clearance or lie and risk one of you smoking buddies ratting you out and then not getting your clearance. I heard that the US govt doesn't care as much about marijuana as they did in the past and so it's okay to just put it on the form and be proud. I've also heard that the question no longer pertains to marijuana. But that's a gamble in the current environment. Of course, if you're unlikely to ever pursue a secret clearance in any job you may have in the future, this is no big deal. But you'd be surprised how many jobs require it these days.
Legalizing marijuana would eliminate these problems. But since it's not happening any time soon, those who care about their ability to earn a living in certain settings or hanging onto their stuff that they'd have to pay for whether the sheriff owns it or they do...well, they just don't mess with the law.
Now, there are some problems with marijuana that simply won't go away whether it is legalized or not.
1) Lacing has been mentioned. I'd call it genetic engineering. There's been a lot of boosting of potency over the years and some of the stuff out there really does sound like a nightmare compared to what was available back in the 1930s through the 1960's or 70's. I hear this from friends in law enforcement who deal with the aftermath.
2) If you are high and are involved in any type of accident (auto, industrial, etc.) the presumption will be that you are the cause of that incident. In a minor traffic crash, this is not likely to cause you much concern as most jurisdictions don't test for drugs (it's too expensive) and if no-one was hurt or killed, you aren't likely to be discovered to have been driving under the influence of drugs. But, if someone is seriously hurt and especially if someone is killed, you are much more likely to undergo alcohol and/or drug testing post-crash. When that happens and you are discovered to have been under the influence, you're screwed. Not only will the state come down on you like a ton of bricks (and you'll have a record that'll follow you forever) but civil suit will be a slam dunk against you. Your insurance company will drop you like a hot potato exercising the clause that gets them off the hook if you behave in a willfully illegal manner. And the legal fees alone could easily bankrupt most people.
In the case of industrial accidents, the companies routinely do post-incident drug tests. Since the tests can't tell when your last toke was, they are pretty likely to deal with you as if you were stoned at the time of the event. Instead of being treated as an accident victim (entitled to compensation) you get treated as the causal factor and get nothing. No disability. No paid medical leave. No company funded treatment and rehab. Your medical bills are your own to deal with. And you'll be doing it without a job if you happened to be an employee at the time of your incident.
3) It's a myth that smoking weed is less harmful than smoking cigarettes. Think about it...while the cigarettes most people smoke have some chemicals in them, there's also a filter and the amount of tars and various other nasty things is tightly regulated. Marijuana has all kinds of crap in it too, but it is unregulated. And you smoke it unfiltered. Your lungs are under assault when you do this.
4) People on marijuana usually think they are a lot funnier and more creative than they really are. It has a sedative effect. It's a mild (to moderate) pain killer. It dulls one. And that's the truth. Sure, it could be great for some activities and for someone who is in pain or suffers from anxiety pot may be a better alternative than self-medicating with serious narcotics. But it's still a drug. There are almost always better ways to use ones time and resources.
I don't have time right now to look up various physiological effects of dope smoking. There are a few that are worth considering. But ultimately, I do think that it should be legalized. I think our "war on drugs" has been a collossal waste of money and especially in the case of marijuana-related busts. It's just overkill.
I think adults should have the ability to choose their poison. And we should spend the money we save from toning down enforcement on programs that are aimed at helping addicts overcome their problem(s) with more serious drugs.
But still, smoking marijuana just doesn't make much sense. Even if it were legalized.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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Let me begin by saying that I am totally biased on this issue because of what I saw in my brother (see links above). I don't know if he was sick (schizophrenic) before he started using or vice versa. When he started using, it was in the context of partying with his school friends. What did we know? It just wasn't a big deal.
In law school, I dated a guy who was convinced he was better on weed; more creative, smarter. I think what Bob Scopatz had to say is the dispositive factor here: this is not a legal activity; it puts you at all kinds of risk. Having a criminal record--even a single misdemeanor drug offense--will change your life. It changes the way every police encounter in your life will go. This is not something I am willing to risk for the sake of a high. There are easier ways to relax that don't carry this type of hazard.
Posts: 516 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
Response to Bob's #3. What makes it less harmful is the fact that you smoke a LOT less than you do with cigarettes. Also, there are other methods to smoke, such as through a water filter.
erosomniac: There are 4 groups. You forgot one. There's those of us who don't smoke, but support legalization.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:What makes it less harmful is the fact that you smoke a LOT less than you do with cigarettes. Also, there are other methods to smoke, such as through a water filter.
Of course, if you smoke less it'd be safer no matter what the substance is. I wonder if marijuana were legalized if people would get a pack a day habit going?
Water filtration. I've heard conflicting info on this. Like it turns the water brown and yucky so something must be coming out of the smoke, but that the smoke that gets through is still a toxic stew.
I haven't got a clue, really, but I suspect both statements have some truth to them.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
A pack a day??? There's no way. The room would be spinning loooong before that. Haha. People just don't smoke THAT much. I think I have heard on the web about people smoking an ounce in just one day...but there was probably more than one person... of they were just insane.
And you can eat it... which is a yucky thought if it's not regulated through legalization. But if it's clean, then people say it works just as well or better.
The fact is, people who smoke only are going to take 1-3 hits or so at a time, (maybe some take more..but not much more.) while smokers are likely to smoke 1-2 cigarettes at at time--or maybe more.
And for a bit of anecdotal evidence... there's this guy I know who's over 60. He stopped smoking cigarettes 10+ years ago after smoking them a LOT through his life... but he's been smoking pot everyday. The doctor is quite impressed with the state of his lungs. They're very clean. *shrugs* I know, it's anecdotal, so what does it really mean...
I'd like to see some actually unbiased scientific studies done on it. I don't trust the government ones, and I know that the pro-pot ones also started with a bias--although I'm more likely to believe them! Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Hmm... about the driving or working while impaired thing... the tests that test whether or not you are high are really unfair. If you've smoked in the last month, it will show up--and if you have a hair test, I believe that it will show up from a much longer time ago. Where's the test to see if you are currently impaired?
Fact is, two guys can sit at home, not endangering anyone and one can smoke a joint and one can drink a beer. If they're both involved in an accident the next day and they're both completely sober at the time, the one who smoked a joint is in MUCH more trouble than the one who drank a beer.
It's a messed up system.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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alcohol is a systemic poison. It has short-term deleterious effects on judgement and motor skills. It has long-term effects on the central nervous system and liver.
quote:Originally posted by Katarain: Hmm... about the driving or working while impaired thing... the tests that test whether or not you are high are really unfair. If you've smoked in the last month, it will show up--and if you have a hair test, I believe that it will show up from a much longer time ago.
What tests do they use to see whether or not you are high?
I ask because A) I honestly have no clue about how it's done since I only know of one method of testing (urinalysis) and am sure there are more, and B) because I've been doing some training with a local law enforcement department this past week and I've been told they can only trace marijuana in your system for 2-4 days, not 30.
*not trying to argue the fairness of the test, just curious*
Posts: 378 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
The hair follicle test is able to detect presence for months, not days.
I don't know about urine tests (which is, I'm sure, the more common test).
They really wouldn't want a bunch of false positives, to be honest. It's a royal pain to prosecute these cases and they know the limits of the tests as well as anyone, and how smart defense attorneys are.
It's just that there probably isn't a good standard for "level of impairment" when it comes to cannabis. We don't have the equivalent of a .08 law, so the real question is how much damage did you do and how pissed off are they at your for your attitude or the damage you caused.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Marijuana residue shows in hair follicles for 30 days or more. Crack cocaine can show in hair for as much as 6 months. I have one friend who was turned down for a job based on a hair test that showed marijuana in his system and another who has to be tested monthly to make sure she's off the crack in order to attempt to get custody of her children back from her ex-husband.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
Y'know robin williams has the best take on this because it is just so god damn funny.
"Yeah man alchohal's a crutch"
"Really Captain Herbelight, you just macromaid yourself into the sofa and your telling me that?"
But man, playing video games stonned I can imagine has to be the greatest thing to do sadly I don't have the guts to try it.
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posted
You can also smoke marijuana through vaporization of the THC, which generates no smoke whatsoever, and therefore presents less of a health risk - although I have no idea what other chemical compounds are getting vaporized and introduced into your lungs.
quote:Of course, if you smoke less it'd be safer no matter what the substance is. I wonder if marijuana were legalized if people would get a pack a day habit going?
Given that the marijuana high lasts way longer than nicotine and the fact that marijuana has no physically addicting compounds (ordinarily, at least), I think we'd be looking at a much smaller total amount of smoking.
quote:3) It's a myth that smoking weed is less harmful than smoking cigarettes. Think about it...while the cigarettes most people smoke have some chemicals in them, there's also a filter and the amount of tars and various other nasty things is tightly regulated. Marijuana has all kinds of crap in it too, but it is unregulated. And you smoke it unfiltered. Your lungs are under assault when you do this.
The lack of filtering alone is killer - which is why popular joint rolling machines will put a filter in your joint for you (ah, modern technology). The common number I hear quoted is that unfiltered marijuana smoke is seventeen times more harmful to your lungs than filtered cigarette smoke, but I've never seen a study or evidence to back that up.
quote: And you can eat it... which is a yucky thought if it's not regulated through legalization. But if it's clean, then people say it works just as well or better.
The fact is, people who smoke only are going to take 1-3 hits or so at a time, (maybe some take more..but not much more.) while smokers are likely to smoke 1-2 cigarettes at at time--or maybe more.
If you do it right, eating it does work, and the high is actually quite different - the method of absorption of a drug almost always changes the high pretty significantly (e.g. crack vs snorting).
I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers though. The pot smokers I know almost always take at least 7-8 hits, unless they run out before then - that's about how many good hits one person can get from one well-packed bowl, and nobody smokes just one bowl.
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
You'ld just happen to know all this because why?
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
Also pot would be a great way to deal with anger management. Have you ever seen an angry pot smoker? No? Why you ask? Because there is no such thing as an angry pot smoker.
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quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: But doesn't pot have that mellowing effect that calms you down?
For a lot of people, smoking pot does have the calming effect so commonly portrayed in movies.
It is by NO MEANS the only effect marijuana has.
The effects of marijuana (and most other drugs) are HIGHLY impacted by the individual: your succeptibility to certain things, the environment in which you use, the conditions you expose yourself to immediately before and after.
I've seen people smoke out and go crazy with paranoia: one girl I know was so stoned that we had to leave her in the car while we went inside to get something. When we came back out, she looked at us and ran away screaming - we had to chase her down, which was pretty hard to do without hurting her, given how violent she was being. Later, she told us that she didn't recognize us, and thought we were coming to arrest her. When we wouldn't leave her alone, "arrest" became "kill."
Which tangentially brings me to bunbun's links: I don't know for sure about any links between marijuana use and chronic mental illness, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out without further study.
quote:You'ld just happen to know all this because why?
I think we all know the answer to that question.
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quote: I've seen people smoke out and go crazy with paranoia: one girl I know was so stoned that we had to leave her in the car while we went inside to get something. When we came back out, she looked at us and ran away screaming - we had to chase her down, which was pretty hard to do without hurting her, given how violent she was being. Later, she told us that she didn't recognize us, and thought we were coming to arrest her. When we wouldn't leave her alone, "arrest" became "kill."
I have known some people with pretty violent reactions as well. And I don't know if it was from the THC levels or the other stuff that might've been in the mix.
Suffice it to say that this is not the mental state one expects from dope, but it is at least a possible reaction. If someone is already suffering from a mental illness, would pot tend to bring it out or make it more severe?
I have seen data to show that alcohol and pot in combination (now who would ever do that?) magnifies the impairment beyond what one would get from just the pot or just the alcohol. This shows up in driving studies.
Posts: 22497 | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:I have known some people with pretty violent reactions as well. And I don't know if it was from the THC levels or the other stuff that might've been in the mix.
I've tried to figure out what it was in the pot that night that made her go nuts, but to no avail, because everyone smoked it, and she was the only one with the reaction. There could very well have been an added compound that only she had a bad reaction to, but I have no clue what it might've been.
quote:I have seen data to show that alcohol and pot in combination (now who would ever do that?)...
I tried to find a guilty smiley, but the best I can come up with is .
But they're right. Pot + Alcohol = ridiculous. Although for future reference, don't do the drinking first: forget the spins, you'll be on your knees over a toilet for three hours straight, long after you have nothing left in your poor, poor little stomach.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:For a lot of people, smoking pot does have the calming effect so commonly portrayed in movies.
It is by NO MEANS the only effect marijuana has.
heh, I got giddy. Silly giddy. To the point where I thought that One Night at McCool's (I think that was the name, Liv Tyler and Matt Dillon) was the funniest movie I'd ever seen and was on the floor in hysterics.
Watched the movie again without the influence and couldn't figure out what struck me as so funny, so I knew it had to be the pot.
And yes I'm a serious lightweight where that's concerned, I think I've smoked three times in my life. Doesn't take much alcohol to make me loopy, either.
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
lol, I remember a story my teacher told me for the one time had had hashesh.
Apparently when a friend remarked he was stoned gave him a little push and it apparently took 15 minutes to fall down.
Next ya, he got the giddy reaction too i think.
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quote:To the point where I thought that One Night at McCool's (I think that was the name, Liv Tyler and Matt Dillon) was the funniest movie I'd ever seen and was on the floor in hysterics.
Do we need more proof of the damage wrought marijuana? Think of the children!
Posts: 26071 | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I don't smoke pot, but support its legalization. Unlike cocaine and heroin, which are imported and whose profits support organized crime and oppressive foreign regimes, marijuana is often grown by local family farmers.
Now what could be more "mom and apple pie" than that?
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I don't want to sound rude but that was strikingly incoherent. I smoke myself and I don't feel this person is representing the stoner's viewpoint very well.
The only drugs I've used are marijuana and pain killers, and the painkillers were prescribed. The gateway theory is bs.
Posts: 58 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I'm all for legalization. I don't smoke anymore and probably wouldn't start again even if it became legal. I mean everybody has to grow up at some point and unfortunately, I have hit that point in my life where I get more enjoyment out of 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep than 4 hours of giggling as my friends play with glow sticks.
On a side not, the top 3 kids in my class all smoke at-least a bowl a day and nobody who hasn't seen it would believe it.
Posts: 1094 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
The odd thing is alot of my friends think I smoke pot, I don't understand it.
Peter keeps remarking about my special brownies but I don't remember making any.
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
oh ya in corporate is misspelled. Before someone else complains.
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*WARNING: Link contains language that would be censored on this board.
Oh, and Blayne, how is it that you noticed and nitpicked about corporate being mispelled, but not marijuana?
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