posted
I don't want to be judgemental or anything, but maybe punching your father in the face is not the best idea?
Posts: 3636 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Yeah I wouldn't recommend physical violence either. Besides, Once you come to terms with your own frustrations and let them go you will find funnier and subtler ways to do that anyway.
Some background: My dad, now retired this year, could and still can afford to send me and 15 other people to college, but he didn't and won't. He felt it is more important to spend the money on large and expensive houses and expensive cars and then glue him self in front of a 55" TV in every room with digital cable and satellite services on all of them. Or when he isn't watching TV he is complaining about all of the trash people leave lying around the house, mostly himself, or he is barking at the dogs because they are barking at him because he spoiled them and won't give them attention. My mom got her degree and started working full time just to get away from him most of the day.
And then there are all of the old typewriters, books, old film projectors, expensive paintings all stashed in any one of the 7 bedrooms of his house. All comprised of his passing fancies. The plethora of old and new gadgets that he finds too complicated to learn how to use even after I tried to teach him how to use them.
Orincoro, when reading your post I was seeing many, similarities.
All of us children have grown up and moved out. None of us, when we moved out, ever looked back. When I moved out I moved everything. I moved my bed my dresser...everything and I was just going away to college.
Ok so how do we punch him in the face? By responding to him in a loving an appreciative manner.
For example, when he is getting on one of his rampages about how much money he doesn't have. DAD: "Just who do you think paid for your college?" ME: "I did. Every penny except for the pell grants and that came from the government to which you paid taxes. So I guess you did contribute to in an a small way and therefore I'm thankful for that." DAD: "Damn right you are ..." ME: I had him a few pennies "There that should cover what I owe you for that." DAD: "..."
About the trash lying around the house: DAD: "Why the **** can't you people clean up after yourselves around here ...*** it's like I live in a **** **** hole." ME: "Why don't you hire a maid?" DAD: "I wouldn't have to if people would just pick up after them selves for ****** *****. Look at all of this **** laying around the room." ME: "I'm sorry, who does all of this stuff belong too anyway?" DAD: "..."
About his dog Freddy: Freddy: "Bark, Bark" DAD: "Freddy, quite!" Freddy: "Grrrr, Bark, Bark" DAD: "Quite!" Freddy: "Bark!" DAD: "Freddy, Quite!"
Rinse and repeat.
That in itself is rather satisfying. Even his pets are starting to talk back to him. Posts: 527 | Registered: Aug 2004
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posted
The sad part of Christmas for me is how the family dinner with all the siblings took place without all the siblings. In other words, they gathered together around the dinner table and celebrated being a family the day BEFORE I arrived in Utah for a week.
>_<
At this point, it's either malicious or complete incompetence. Matt got to see everything this past week, and he thinks it is utter incompetance. Despite being married and what he thinks, my dad is absolutely a single parent, and he just doesn't know what he's doing. Matt says he is like King Kong - he likes me, but he keeps knocking me down and can't tell he's hurting me.
I found out about the family meal sans Katie on Thursday, and was crying to my friend with whom I was staying and to Matt on the phone in the middle of that night.
However, except for that, everything was wonderful, even with my dad. It got much better. I got two stockings, too, and was completely delighted. I think I am figuring out how to deal with my dad - play Hard to Get, and have someone else there to take care of me. *sigh*
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
We'll celebrate Christmas - sort of - with my family the 31th. I'm already pissed off with my sisters. I know it's bad, but I can't help. One of my sisters is nice, but doesn't give a damn about what happens to me, and the other cares but is really annoying, at best. If it wasn't for my Dad, I gues I would'nt even come.
Posts: 3526 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Kat, I cannot believe how socially incompetent your father is. That is just beyond . . . beyond words.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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It got better. I said we were going to see King Kong on Friday, and my dad called me the next morning to see if he could take us out to dinner and go to the movie. I think he knew he had screwed up, because he tried to make up for it. I was wearing a chunky, funky necklace, and he said on Thursday that he was surprised I was wearing it - I preferred subtle, small jewelry. No, I don't - I never have. I think he started worrying about his present to me, and on Friday during dinner tried to explain that he had looked for something and couldn't find it, but found something else and he hoped it would be okay. It was very sincere - he was clearly nervous that I'd hate it. I think he's dimly aware that things are not good and he's not handling things well, but he doesn't know where it went wrong and he certainly doesn't know how to make it better. That's endearing.
The nice part is that I am completely free of all guilt for thinking Nyla is a crappy stepmother. She's a great wife for my dad and I'm glad she's there for that reason, but it's clear that I am a rival for attention instead of a quasi-daughter, and while she may know what to do socially, she's not doing any of it for my benefit. Fine. That game I can play. *sparkle* I know how to fight for attention if I have to.
I did love my present, by the way. I have no idea what I would think if I got it without knowing that my dad really did do his best and desperately wanted me to like it, but I love it now. Black cashmere sweater and a pearl necklace and earrings - it's like I'm a daughter in the fifties. I need to get invited to a cocktail party for advertising executives as soon as possible.
quote:Originally posted by smitty: People's parents pay for their college? What's up with that?
OK, my parents helped with housing while I was in the dorms. But it always irks me when I financial planner asks "How much do you want to put away for your kids college fund?". NONE! I get the benefit of the dang schooling, it's my pay that'll increase, why should my parents have paid, even if they could have? One of the ladies here basically uses her entire paycheck to pay for her kids college (One got out, another enrolled). Another guy paid 100% of his kid's schooling. The kid now makes about $250k per year, while dad is at $80k. How does that make sense?
Sorry, ranting.
That's a family thing. It irks me that people claim that those whose parents pay for their schooling don't learn life lessonns or don't appreciate their education, or whatever.
In my family, everyone generally has children later in life. And it is taken for granted that one should provide for one's children, including any and all schooling that said children might want, so long as it is feasible to do so.
Also, the idea that helping your children getting a higher education is worthless because you don't receive a higher salary out of it is, quite frankly, disturbigly selfish to me. Why have children at all? All they do is leech money away from you.
posted
Still seems wrong to me, though. Especially all schooling after the undergraduate level. I don't see why kids can't be expected to handle the loans for graduate school, at the very least.
I have a friend who always moaned about money. Her dad paid for out of state tuition and books for four years of medschool, plus half the room and board costs. This is AFTER paying everything for four years of out of state undergrad which was her choice even though she knew how much money that cost her parents. He then surprised her by paying off the rest when she graduated. She moaned constantly about how little money she had. Then you'd think she would quit that after her dad paid the rest, but no. She immediately bought a $35,000 car and then complained about her loans for that. Where's the appreciation? Where's learning a little patience and frugality? I think she'd have been better off to pay more herself instead of daddy doing it all for her.
Posts: 1014 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I don't see what children are going to learn by graduating over a hundred thousand dollars in debt.
I've told this story before; I have a friend who received his bachelors $75,000 in debt. He couldn't afford to continue his schooling, and entry-level jobs for those with bachelor's degrees in his field didn't pay enough for him to work in his field of choice. Now he works in a restaurant.
quote:Originally posted by smitty: People's parents pay for their college? What's up with that?
OK, my parents helped with housing while I was in the dorms. But it always irks me when I financial planner asks "How much do you want to put away for your kids college fund?". NONE! I get the benefit of the dang schooling, it's my pay that'll increase, why should my parents have paid, even if they could have? One of the ladies here basically uses her entire paycheck to pay for her kids college (One got out, another enrolled). Another guy paid 100% of his kid's schooling. The kid now makes about $250k per year, while dad is at $80k. How does that make sense?
Sorry, ranting.
UH wow, great parenting. You don't know how many friends I had in highschool with the grades for college, who went to junior colleges instead, and ended up wasting a couple of good years living at home. (no I don't think ALL junior college is a waste, but it can be) KIds with parents that just didn't provide them with the opportunity to attend the colleges they could have. I think this is a really sad thing.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Blayne Bradley
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posted
This is why the education system is crap. This is why in Quebec we have CEGEP its free college level education that can put you straight into your chosen profession unless you go onto univerrsity.
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quote:Originally posted by Theaca: Still seems wrong to me, though. Especially all schooling after the undergraduate level. I don't see why kids can't be expected to handle the loans for graduate school, at the very least.
No argument there! But as for the rant about helping your kids at all?? My parents make enough money to pay college tuition for all four of their kids comfortably, OF COURSE I am glad this is the case. It has NOTHING to do with my independence from my parents; from an early age my parents told me that college was a part of what they wanted for me, but I had to want it for myself. I did, so they pay happily. This comment earlier about how the kid now makes more than the parent is frankly nonsense, the kid makes more because his parents provided for him and nurtured him, they didn't have kids so that they could reap the financial benefits!
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Re: Kids and higher education and obligations of parenthood: I think it's a nice thing when parents save for their children's higher education, and I'm pleased that we're able to do so. It's not an obligation, nor should kids think that it is. Just as it isn't a parent's obligation to provide a child with his own room, brand new clothes, or anything beyond basic needs. A good parent wants to give their child more than he needs. We have to hold ourselves back. Largely because children who are lavished with more than they actually need are often ungrateful with some confusion over the difference between wants and needs, which will not help them in their adult lives.
pH, your friend made a choice (series of choices, really). He's now working his way through the consequences of those choices, which can be very character building. I'd be interested to know what he thinks of those choices 10 years from now.
My parents didn't save to get me through college. I qualified for scholarships, but it wasn't enough. So I didn't go. I could have gone into debt, but decided not to. When I was ready and knew what I wanted to study, I went to night school and worked during the day. I still don't have my degree, but that has been a choice. I'm raising kids instead, and continue learning on the job from very smart people who got higher education. Now, does this limit my career choices? Yes. But everything limits career choices. My mom has a master's degree, which she no longer puts on her resume because it prevents her from getting jobs. She has tons of higher education, not so much job experience. There, I trump her big-time. And my earning potential will always be greater than hers.
It's all about choices and being grateful for what you have. I'll pay for my kids' college as long as they appreciate that it's a privilege that they get to go.
Posts: 5948 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Hey, when I was 17 I wish I had gotten an invitation to come back home for Christmas. Or my birthday. Or a present or a phone call or something.
Or when I was 19 to have been told that my dog had died when it happened rather than a year later. Heck, I'd only had him since I was five.
But hey, it's a lousy old world sometimes.
And sometimes the world is a fine and dandy place, once you've made a bit of space for yourself on your own.
Posts: 2848 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Still seems wrong to me, though. Especially all schooling after the undergraduate level. I don't see why kids can't be expected to handle the loans for graduate school, at the very least.
My parents pay for me to go to college. My dad, the responsible account, has putting alittle away since I was born. When my parents got married my dad inherited all my mom's student loans for college. My mom's dad was almost glad to be rid of her at that point because she couldn't pay for it (med school) alone and would have gone running to her daddy eventually. My dad thought the whole thing was ridiculous and he didn't want to put his kids, or their future spouses, through that.
I was still expected to work my butt off and earn scholarship money. Whatever is left over, which is currently my meal plan and my rent and utilities (I'm living off campus so I can have quiet to study) is picked up by my parents. I only work seasonally in New Orleans because my dad made a deal with me that stated clearly that being a good student WAS my job for the next few years. He didn't want me worrying about money and wasting time which could be spent getting the grades I need for a good career and/or grad school. The money I make working every summer and every holiday (minimum wage and 50 hours a week) allows me to pay my grocery bills and have some fun at the movies once in awhile.
Am I lucky? Yes, I am. And I'm grateful. In the college program I'm at and with my bad history with stress and coping, supporting myself with a job while attending classes isn't feasible. I'm glad to know that I can focus fully on my papers and upcoming thesis without worrying about all the loans I'll have piled up when I left.
Its a gift my father gave to me and he only asks that I repay him by doing something good with my life.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I'm not ripping on kids whose parents paid for their college - and if the parents make enough money to, that's fine. I just don't see why the parents should basically put themselves in the poor house for their kids education. Just helping with the housing put a serious drain on my parents, something I still feel guilty about. And yeah, the student loans are a hardship for the graduate. Between my wife and I, we're paying more in student loans than our mortgage. But why should it be a hardship on my parents, instead of myself? (technically, two of the loans are in our parents names) It's not being selfish, it's not bad parenting, it's taking responsibility for MY desire to increase my education, and make a better life for myself. Will I help my kids out (God willing, if we can have any) with their education? Of course! Will I hand it to them on a platter? Probably not.
The guy I was referring to paid for his kid's education. He only asked that the kid pay the interest on the loans while he was in school, to help teach him responsibility. The kid went nuts, and moved in with his mom, thus forcing the guy to pay for his schooling PLUS more child support. I do think some kids take it for granted. Not all, not even most, but some. I knew I took my initial scholarship for granted, and studied a HELL of a lot harder when I knew that money was going to be coming out of my pocket.
pH, there's a big difference between "why have kids at all, if they're just going to leach money" and paying for a kid's college.
Posts: 880 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
smitty, that story is a little confusing. If they were federal student loans, there is no interest while you're in school. I have no idea why you'd get any other type of loans to pay for college. And if the kid was over 18, there would not have been any child support required when he moved in with his Mom. I know some kids start college under 18, but it's pretty rare for them not to at least turn 18 in the first year.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
My mom and dad's loans weren't federal, don't remember what they were, but they had to pay the interest while I was in school. Parent Plus Loans? Been a while ago. The bulk of the money was federal, but that only entered into the equation once I lost my scholarship, and by that time, I had a pretty good job, and was making enough to take care of myself. But the interest alone was enough to take a toll on my parents...
Well, here in IN, if the kid is living with one parent while in college, the payments keep on going until the kid graduates. Considering most of my cow-orkers (that's not a typo) have had at least one divorce, it's not the first time I've heard the story.
Edit: All of my stories are confusing. I'm used to it.
Posts: 880 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
smitty, the way it was described, "Why should I pay for my kids' education when I'm not getting anything out of it" DOES put it in the same realm as, "Why have kids? You're not going to make money off them." Unless your name is Joe Simpson.
My parents have a similar "Being a good student is your job" arrangement with me. I essentially go to school year-round. And I take unpaid internships with flexible hours in my spare time. An internship is required to graduate in my program, and there aren't many that pay. Not to mention, a lot of employers and graduate schools require experience. So being able to work without needing the money to survive is a huge plus.
posted
I wasn't trying to imply that, ph. I wasn't saying the parent should make money from it. Sorry I caused so much trouble with my rant. And it's not like my parents didn't help, and they're paying for my sister's schooling now (something about she can't get loans, mom and dad make a lot more now). I guess the point of my thread is, I would rather take that debt on myself, rather than place it on my parents. Especially if it's going to be a hardship on them. And some of the kids I know do take it for granted, which frustrates me.
Posts: 880 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Actually you didn't cause any trouble, you kind of have me thinking lately of how codled I am. Thanks for the perspective injection!
I should work harder at being a student and work harder at being a part of my family, and do it without banging my head into a wall; when something doesn't work, I need to examine my actions and determine what needs to change. I need to know what I can DO not what I wish would happen!
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
That was a really mature statement and some good insight.
(Not that was not sarcasm. I meant it. Realizing things like that and following through is very, very tough.)
Posts: 14745 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
Wow, my family are saints its seems from reading these stories.
My grandmother is a generous dear who, when needed, supports my single disabled mother as much as she can.
My mum is disabled and very distant, stuck to her computer constantly; but its only because she is in the final year of a University course. Either way she is a loving kind woman, who granted has a hell of a temper.
My dad... he loves me and isnt a bad guy, sure he has a bad temper, is quiet and always expects me to be the one to keep in contact, but he is a good guy. Still havent gotten a call from New Year from him yet though
Though these things could change any time, nothing is perminant.
Hmmm, i really dont have anything to report.
My mother questioned if she thought i could have been diffrent is she had been more strict with me; which i did find highly insulting since it basicly says 'I'm not happy with how you have turned out'
Sure i'm a lazy idle git, but i'm kind compassionate and loyal to my family. Modest too.
Its not my fault i had a bike accident that is still giving me bad effects; i think not being able to go to collage this week is what started her thinking. How can i help i'm constantly tired and drained (from my back) and happened to get a nasty cold?
Meh, its still nothing compared to some of these.
Yeesh if my Dad hit me i'd have whacked him back too, then just left.
Posts: 67 | Registered: Jan 2006
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