posted
Tat, first off, unless NO is on a delta circuit, only one phase goes into a residential type building. It may be delta, but most systems are wye connected. If it is Delta, and one phase is out, she should have no power. If it's wye connected, then partial power is usually from a bad connection.
I'm an engineer at the utility, this is exactly the type of thing I investigate.
In most wye systems, the bad connection is found in the customer's panel box - it's not the fuses blowing, it's something flat failing in the box.
Odds are, a transformer failure won't give partial power, although a poor connection on the transformer could. But it's hard for there to be a problem in the windings that would only cause a partial loss of power. It does happen, just unlikely.
Best place to look for this type of situation is at the entrance (meter), but it's not the type of place you want to go digging around unprepared, and especially not drunk. Posts: 880 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
JT, 120/208 is a completely different config than the 120/240 to most residentials. 120/208 uses all three phases (Open Delta primary is possible with two) There, you lose a phase, you have trouble. Most residentials are phase to neutral connections. There are 120/240 three phase connections, but would be pointless in a residential - there's only one 120V circuit. In a 120/208 there's three, but sometimes your 240V stuff can act... funny.
pH, glad you got power back! You need to get the city back in order before I get there!
Posts: 880 | Registered: Nov 2005
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smitty, we lost a phase and had only half power to our building, once, too, and once in our house. I'm always glad to learn more about this stuff, though, and you sound like you have seen a lot more applications than I. Could you find or post a wiring diagram to illustrate what you mean? I'm trying to picture what you are saying, and making sketches left and right.
pH, did the power to your fridge and stove ever come back on?
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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Ugh.... Tat, I did a little looking, and didn't see anything. I can't even find my wicked-slick GE manual, hoping it would have a web page. There are plenty of books for sale on the subject... ugh again.
If this thread is anywhere in the first few pages when I return, I'll see if I can't scan and post some pictures.
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I know the difference between 120/208 and 120/240, I was just saying that losing a phase is not uncommon. Although I agree with you that most times it happens at the panelboard or service entrance and not at the transformer.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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oh, gotcha JT. Lost phases aren't near as much fun as loose neutrals... the 240 stays solid, but the two 120's go up and down. Can create some pretty nasty situations.
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See, I'm glad to know this, because I have no idea what is most likely, only what's theoretically possible. That's where experience with fixing these same type problems comes in handy.
Still, half her power was gone, and then came back. So what do you think happened? It still sounds to me like she lost a phase.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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I thought I bought the right kinds of fuses, but apparently I didn't. Because the 20amp fuse doesn't fit where the 20amp fuse is supposed to go. The 30amp one fits there, instead.
And even though I replaced the one that was labeled "refrigerator," the fridge still won't turn on.
posted
I'm going to call the condo association if this doesn't fix itself soon.
The boyfriend is at work. Oh, trust me. He has heard ALL about how the universe is plotting against me, what the hell, I do not live in a third world country, I need my ginger ale chilled. He's supposed to come over tonight and make it go.
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I'm really surprised that the condo association doesn't have a 24-hour emergency numberfor this sort of thing. And is maintenance of the fusebox supposed to be tenant responsibility?
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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The condo association is supposed to handle the structure. Basically, I'm in charge of what happens to everything from the inside surfaces onward. Which means that windows and such are iffy. Plumbing and electrical SHOULD be handled by the condo people, as far as I know, but I'm not entirely certain on that one. I'm going to do as much as I can without attempting to involve them, though.
posted
For what it's worth, I once saw the entire village of Lake Placid lose one phase, so it's not out of the question. I don't know how common though.
I'd try to leave the air contidioner off, because it's really a luxury, whereas the refrigerator is more of a necessity. Also, refigerators generally operate at lower load levels, and on 120 single phase. My first temptation would be to try running the refrigerator off of another outlet, but turning off any lights or appliances that are unnecessary.
I'm thinking the buzzing may be coming from the neutral line, which usually sees little or no load. The neutral only carries a load if the phases are out of balance, which it would definitely be if one phase is out.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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Apparently, no one else is having this refrigerator problem. The refrigerator will be tested in another outlet as soon as SOMEONE arrives who is strong enough to move the thing, as it has its own recess in the wall and probably weighs like eight times as much as I do. *shoots meaningful looks in the appropriate direction*
The air conditioner is probably going to stay on, if for no other reason than it's not central, and I want to know what to expect for the summer in terms of effectiveness. I'm not sure I like this thing.
I switched the fuses. It didn't help. Fortunately, I also bought a TON of Lysol air deoderizer and other such products so that my kitchen no longer smells like a rotting hyena covered in sewage.
posted
How many 220V outlets do you have? (Is your fridge 220V?) Mine I would have to lug downstairs to the dryer outlet. Not sure that would be worth it. Instead you might want to take a multimeter and test the outlet and see if it's hot.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
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You could just get an extension cord for the refrigerator. I've never heard of a consumer style refrigerator that takes more than 120V.
I don't understand your reasoning for keeping the air conditioner on.
I can't parse all the iterations discussed here. Is it more than just the fuses in your apartment? Does the blackout extend beyond your building?
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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You don't understand my reasoning for leaving the air conditioner on? I live in Louisiana. I'll probably never need a heater, and I like my house to be in the 60's. So unless it's rather cool out and I feel like leaving a window open (which I don't because the only window in the living room makes it very, VERY easy to break in), I'm going to be running the air conditioner.
Well, as it turns out, an extension cord was not necessary. The boyfriend came over and played with the fuses or something, and it started working again. I guess he has the magic touch.
So I still have no idea what voltage my refrigerator is. Hopefully, I'll never need to know. At least, not under these circumstances.
posted
pssst....your refrigerator plugs into a regular outlet, aka 120 volts. Just in case you want to impress someone with that later.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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But seriously, unless you see a mold growing on it, probably not. Preserves are designed not to spoil. That's how they got their name.
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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pH, any chance the current outage is related to the tornados I just saw on my newspaper's homepage?
Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Hope you also had it checked by a certified electrician, to see whether there was failure that could be dangerous.
We had a similar thing happen last year to our home (on an old, rural line), when suddenly have my house lost power. I checked the breakers and re-set them. Power would come on for a little while, then go back off again.
Called out a professional electrician and it turned out that at a joint where the lines came from the pole, and were spliced to have some power go to our outbuilding, and some feed into our breakbox from the outside -- that joint was seriously overheating. When it would get too hot, it would pull apart and we would lose power, then as it cooled, it would come back on. But there was serious burn at that junction on the side of the house.
Could have easily become a fire if I hadn't had it checked. FG
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I thought I bought the right kinds of fuses, but apparently I didn't. Because the 20amp fuse doesn't fit where the 20amp fuse is supposed to go. The 30amp one fits there, instead.![[Wall Bash]](graemlins/wallbash.gif)
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