posted
That makes me think... I am a firm believer in education and making it more accesible for all people and not just the elite, those that have the money for 600 dollar SAT courses and prep schools. All people should be able to study as much as they want, whatever they want. I'd be all for free college education, but this would sadly never happen. I went to college, graduated and still ended up droning away for nearly two years on a job I hated. It has been a long struggle trying to find full time work, a permanent job with benefits so I can have the security to really follow my dreams of becoming a writer. I don't regard being a mechanic or something as a lower or lesser job. I wouldn't mind doing it as it would probably make me a good amount of money. A person could go to college for 4 years and still go to a technical school to learn to repair air conditioners. People should have the freedome to work at any job they want to and not have to be forced into jobs they hate and despise because of a lower socioeconomic class. I know that is a fear of mine, being shunted RIGHT BACK INTO those dull jobs that make me no money at all and bore me eto the point of tears And yet now I am in a white collor job that does just that... Bored... not challeged... not making enough money. it is a difficult path and folks should find a way to make it easier somehow. I'm all for liberal arts education,l but against things such as being forced to take a subject I have no interest in. I'd rahter be able to study english writing, Japanese, Japanese culture and all the stuff I have wanted to study since I was a kid. It seems hopeless that I will ever get a job that will make me a great deal of money, I have no experience and trying to get that is so hard, but I want to study what I feel passionate about, not just a vocation that may become obsolete sometime in the future... But, writing is cool because the world always needs writers but I doubt that anyone would want to read the weird stuff I want to write.
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quote: I'm all for liberal arts education,l but against things such as being forced to take a subject I have no interest in.
Seriously, Syne, you need to get past this.
Not really. Why should i be tormented with difficult math that I hate, that has nothing to do with what I am interested in studying and that tortures me and torments me and causes me to fail? It's been like that in school every since I was a kid. I wanted to learn more about Japan and Scotland and things like that but was tormented by difficult math, gym and also American history. (Which I didn't learn to like until I read Johnny Tremain, but really, it's extremely depressing from my point of view.) I simply want to study what I want to study. That is not unreasonable. Now, not wanting to get graded, that is unreasonable. I hate getting graded >.<
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quote:Why should i be tormented with difficult math that I hate, that has nothing to do with what I am interested in studying and that tortures me and torments me and causes me to fail?
Because a certain level of math is necessary for you to live a responsible life as a free American. You are going to have to make decisions on the nation's behalf, and your own behalf, that call for you to be able to evaluate sets of numbers.
If you don't study a certain level of math, you are just going to be the pawn of demagogues, and you and every one around you is liable to suffer for your ignorance. You whining about Math is much the same as Bush whining about having to field questions from a hostile audience.
I know all of this isn't what you want, but it's possible that you aren't wise enough to want to appropriate things, so the school, in exercising its pressumed wisdom and greater authority, requires you to take these classes, and from my scant knowledge of your situation, I'm going to side with the school.
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posted
Yes, a certain level... But I truly am terrible at it. I don't know why. It's always been like that. Now I can't even do simple math without getting a headache... I reckon it's how I am wired. Oddly enough, it woul dbe cool to have a single person teach me about quantum physics. Yes, a certain level of math is not so bad, but quadratic equations? Calculus? Nightmarish trigonometry? No way.
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posted
I actually think high schools should spend more time teaching discrete math and statistical analysis, and less time on trig and conic sections. At least, my sophmore and junior year math classes spent forever on these topics. I've never used these branches of mathematics in a non-academic setting. It's hard for students to see the use of more theoretical math if they aren't planning on taking calculus. But that's just my opinion.
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posted
I wanted to study Japanese instead. And Kendo in gym. In my ideal school things would focus on what folks want to do the most. So I'd get to study history, writing, Japanese, and all sorts of cultural things.
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posted
Syn, You lack focus and discipline - from what I've seen, not just in mathmatical thinking, but in all your thinking. Regardless of that path you choose, this lack is going to be a serious obstacle.
Regardless of your wiring, this is something you can develop, and the ordered thinking that goes along with many of the things you're decrying is a good aid in developing it.
Irami, da Vinci, Descartes, Locke, Franking, Mill, Russell. These are all great philosophers who were also scientists and mechanics. You may want consider that there are many aspects of these endevours that enhance one's abilities to think.
On a different note, what do you have to show for yourself? What I mean is, I've never seen a reason to afford you the position high over everyone else that you seem to think is your due. What is it that you think raises you to this exalted place and what do you think you display that others should treat what you say as anything more than empty arrogance?
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posted
Not really. I am working on focus and discipline. But I am simply not good at math. I don't know what the problem is. I am terrible at it. I can't even add or substract 3 digit numbers without a calculator. But I do play little number games involving multiples of 3. Other than that... Just not good at it. But a total lack of focus, no. The problem is that I am interested in too many things at exactly the same time which is a bit overwhelming. But, at least as a writer I can be interested in a lot of things and throw them into a book. So perhaps it's not a completely bad thing except when I try to pay attention to too many things at the same time.
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posted
Syn, We could do a poll, here at Hatrack, on "What is Syn's greatest problem." and I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of answers will be "lacks discipline and focus". It's one of the major defining characteristics of your interaction here.
You can add or subtract 3 digit numbers without a calculator. There's a world of difference between finding something difficult and being unable to do it.
Lots of people are writers, but a much smaller number have actually written things. What have you written?
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posted
A few essays, several stories... Mostly rants and the like... But I am starting to get a bit irratated. Yes, I'm not perfect, I'm working on it. I'm working on getting a better job, getting the stability to write and working on this novel.
Not being good in math doesn't mean I have a lack of focus or something. I'm just not good at math. There's like a mental block or something and it's been like that for years.
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This is tricky. I do think that people can habituate themselves to more focused and discipline habits. (Aristotle)
There is also a sense in which moral decisions concerning focus and discipline are decisions made out of time and place, as in, you have to make a decision, without regard to present or possible future external circumstance, that you are going to be focused.(Kant)
I think it's a blend. Kant would think that the idea of "working on being focused" is unintelligible. The upside of Kant's view is that it leaves open the possiblity of a sort of instant revolution. As soon as you make the decision to be more focused and disciplined, then you are a new, more focused and disciplined person. Most people think this view doesn't respect the weight of the baggage that goes with years of being unfocused and undisciplined. Who knows? My guess is that the whole business is like superhero teleportation. You know how heroes who can teleport get squeamish if they can't see where they are going. Making the decision to be focused and disciplined becomes all the harder if you don't know what focused and more disciplined "looks" like.
I'm just riffing, but I think that this is where the importance of role models comes in.
posted
Syn, I'm a mean guy. I'm also trying to help you. I think you have it in you to be a good writer. I also think, pretty strongly, that, as you are now, you will never be that writer. Although I could be wrong, it seems very clear to me that you have this problem.
So be it, I'm done for now.
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posted
I think I have it in me too. That's why I have been working for ages on this novel... It's been years, but I'm glad it is taking so long. Otherwise a lot of feelings and experiences would have never gone in. I'm working on it. I'm not just sitting on my thumbs, I'm on the path. And that is why I am getting aggravated. I hate being lectured. That is what my relatives do. If I wanted that I'd live with them. I lecture myself enough as it is.
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posted
Wow, Irami. Given your dim view of humanity, I find it difficult to take anything you say in any sort of serious light. Next you'll be advocating "ignorance cleansing" to wipe the earth of the chaff, leaving only the privileged elite.
I'm very glad the world doesn't work the way you want it to. I am part of that educated group you raise up on that pedestal, and sharing it with your high horse forces me to avoid piles of dung.
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posted
Irami, It looks to me like you're betraying one of the major weakness of eschewing science and real world applications in favor of Socratic thought experiments.
You wonder, "Can people work on being focused and disciplined?", talk about what two guys would say about it and then make the final judgement based on nothing but your own thoughts. And this makes sense to you as a resolution to the problem.
I'm reminded of the bit in Asimov's Foundation series where one characters idea of archaeology is to read what other people have written and weigh their arguments in his mind without ever visiting the places that are being talked about.
I come from a somewhat different tradition. If I'm doing archaeology, I'm going to get right down in the dirt. So, if we're talking about if people can develop discipline and focus and, if so, how it can be done, I'm going to look at attempts to help people develop discipline and focus to see what, if anything, is sucessful. And if there doesn't seem to be sufficient evidence and I consider it important enough, I'll do my own experiments.
In this case, thankfully, there is a long history in psychological therapy of attempting to foster these qualities in people. If you're interested in how things work in the real world as opposed to just in your (or Kant's or Socrates') head, I'd suggest reading up on it.
posted
Excuse me while the libertarian in me has yet another round of nausea and vertigo at the thought of another inane mandate.
Irami, We'd let ANY job that can be done by a machine be done by a machine. Even your job whatever it is. We automate as much as possible because it frees us to do other, more interesting things.
The guy who mows lawns for minimum wage is more useful to society than someone who does nothing but sit around and think about how much smarter he is than everyone else and how he should mandate everyone do things his way. He may be dumber than you, Snowden but at least he helps hold up the world.
And I would think someone whose ancestry was tormented the way yours were simply because people thought they were a lesser species would be a little more sensitive to the thought of equality.
As far as identifying with your job.. ya know, for some people their job is their hobby and they'd do it for fun if they weren't getting paid. Is it wrong for them to proudly announce "I'm a chemist!" "I'm an accountant!" "I'm a mechanic!"
I believe it was JS Mill who said we need a mixed bag of pleasures. Doing nothing but sitting in your ivory tower thinking Deep Thoughts about how we should force others to follow our deep thoughts through mandates is but one kind of pleasure. Maybe you should pick an active pleasure. Maybe you should pick a lower pleasure.(*)
You're not a rounded person without them.
Pix
(*) An Active pleasure is one that requires more physical activity than turning the page of a book. A Lower pleasure would be one that is not particularly intellectual like watching a football game.
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posted
The funny thing is in Irami's universe, making things work is of less value than thinking about making things work.
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quote: I am a firm believer in education and making it more accesible for all people and not just the elite, those that have the money for 600 dollar SAT courses and prep schools.
I know several people that got 1600s on the SAT and at least 50 to 100 more that had scores were over 1500. None of them took SAT prep courses. At most, they bought a $30 book for a few sample tests. Only one went to a prep school, and she dropped out of it cause it was stupid busywork. She was the only one that didn't end up with a free ride to college either.
The most amusing case was the guy who had straight Cs in high school, but aced every AP test he took. Then he took the SAT once drunk, once high and then once sober, just because he was curious how he'd do sober. I can't remember whether the drunk or the high one was his 1600, but he did a lot worse sober.
quote: It just so happens that people who have cultivated their capacity for mental growth and moral development learn the ins and outs of varied vocations more fluently. I'm also of the opinion that these people are more likely to be life long learners and better, more adaptive parents, wiser citizens, and grander individuals. They are also the kind of peole I care to spend my time with.
No wonder you are out of touch with reality. I guess you wouldn't want to come if I invited you to dinner some time, since you think so little of me.
quote: A Bachelor of Arts indicates that a person has studied the liberal arts. The degree signifies that the student can read well, write well, measure well, and properly understood, it is an unspecialized degree.
Many (if not most) people with unspecialized BAs, after they get out of school, read crap (look at the popularity of the DaVinci Code) write like crap (they think the DaVinci Code is Literature) and certainly can't measure worth a damn.
quote: There are mixed vocations like the teacher, lawyer, and professional politician, vocations that are at the same time leisure activities and labor activities. That's also the reason why we have a hard time compensating these activities, and we use words like stipend, honorarium, and gratuity.
Teaching is a "leisure" activity? Law is a "leisure" activity? I might grant you the politicians, but certainly not the other to groups!
quote: The burdens and benefits of liberty as well as the virtues that attend living in a free society are reserved for people qua people, not for the animal species laborer.
I can't believe you compared human laborers to animals. That's the justification for slavery. Or is it ok if they are Mexicans and not Black?
quote: I'm not one to base policy on the ancient and inaccurate assumption that as we are all equal in the eyes of God, we ought to be considered equally equal in the eyes of men. Some people, often in virtue of their attention to the liberal arts, are better than others.
So you think your ancestors should still be slaves? A slave didn't have time to "attend to liberal arts" while they were out picking cotton! If they didn't attend to it they weren't good people.
Although this principle is what the Chicago patronage system is built on. I don't know why you were so appalled by Chicago politics.
quote:I believe it was JS Mill who said we need a mixed bag of pleasures. Doing nothing but sitting in your ivory tower thinking Deep Thoughts about how we should force others to follow our deep thoughts through mandates is but one kind of pleasure. Maybe you should pick an active pleasure. Maybe you should pick a lower pleasure.
Mill made the distinction between higher pleasures(He liked to read poetry) and lower pleasures(like methamphetamines), but he made this distinction in service to the argument that seeking higher pleasures is qualitatively better, not just in short-lived circumstances, but in the long view of the human condition. Mill understood man as a progressive being and that the pleasures that scooted him along that progression were substantively better than the pleasures that were merely titillating.
I'm not the biggest fan of Mill's. That's tresopax. But I think that Mill is more right than wrong with respect to this issue.
AJ,
In defense of Syne's post, I'm sure that I know as many ultra high scorers as you do, and the vast majority of the kids in my pool of observation took a class or got private tutoring, and the honest ones admit that the experience raised their score a non-negligible amount. We don't need Scopatz to tell us that we are both dealing with skewed samples. Of course, I've met people who scored a perfect and didn't take a class, but every one of those kids I've met were exposed to the advantages of a rigorous and classical education either at home or from their school, and it seems to me that if you have kind of education, it doesn't matter whether you take the test strung out on crack or hung over from last night's bender, you are going to score a whole lot better than the general run.
If anything, my argument is that those with such a solid early education are going to more easily apply the insights gained from $30 book.
posted
I agree my sample is skewed, cause I lived on an entire dorm floor of National Merit Scholars (which was btw 3/4 male and 1/4 female) As far as sample size, there were 80 people right there, and I knew at least a couple hundred more than that, as 50 out of the 60 people in my Chemical engineering classes alone (none of which overlapped with the people on my floor) were National Merit scholars. OU recruits more national merit scholars than any other university in the nation.
Most of them *didn't* go to high quality schools and get the sorts of education you are describing. Many were from very rural areas oir inner city ghettos. They may have been in the honors/AP sections of their regular high school (if the high school had an honors program) but that was it. I will grant you that the commonality between all of them was that they Read. But it wasn't necessarily Literature that they read either, there were a heck of a lot of Star Wars books floating around along with Ender.
The other self-selection that happened with the people I knew, is that in a way we were all sellouts from your perspective before we ever walked in the door of the U. of Oklahoma. You see, even though we all got into the elite of the elite schools, we chose the free education, over the theoretically "highest quality" liberal arts education.
But now, I'm not in major debt and earn enough money to do whatever the heck I want during my leisure time. I own a house, am financially and am not one of your "animal laborers" that you disdain.
You are an IT guy, you fall closer to the classification of an "animal laborer" than I do for that matter. Although, I strongly object to the term "animal laborer" when applied to any human being, whether in the first or third worlds.
I am where I am because I have a technical degree in Chemical Engineering, and all manner of technical and scientific knowledge. If I didn't have an extremely broad science background, I wouldn't be good at my job, heck most of the time I even enjoy my job. Perhaps you would view that as "leisure" I'm not sure, since you think teachers are "leisure" workers also.
I also write better than most people, even though I was never required in my childhood to write a paper, ever. In college, over a span of 10 years, I wrote a grand total of 3 non-technical papers. (And I had to take the same general ed courses as everyone else.) Although the engineering college I was in required us to do all manner of technical writing so that we could communicate effectively to non-technical persons.
I will grant that my science background is significantly larger than most people, and I would emphasize a much broader science education for children, because if they are only exposed to it when they are older, the fear of the unknown overrides the vestiges of childhood curiousity.
Although I'm sure you'd disdain the fact that I selfishly spend a significant amount of my disposable income (that I have because of my degree) on dog shows, rather than donating to art museums or educational institutions, like you think I *should* be doing. On the other hand, I know exactly how much property tax I pay to the schools as a property owner, even though I don't have any children of my own, and I am a net gain to my community as a result, contributing to resources that I am not using.
I *am* a Chemical Engineer and who are you to denigrate that it is an integral part of my identity? Who are you to say that a skilled master mill worker is an animal laborer because he is an immigrant and can barely read, much less take a liberal arts class?
posted
As an English/History/Politics major who is strongly interested in other areas such as Archaeology, Sociology, Philosophy and Religion I am constantly coming up against scientists and engineers (including my father) who consider what I study to be 'lesser' because they are 'fluff' subjects. I also come across people in my own fields who have a poor opinion of scientists and engineers. I've heard such things like they are uncultured and closed-minded.
The bias comes from both sides. And both sides, are, in a sense, absolutely right. Many (not all; many) scientists do not pay attention to the humanities and simply have no idea how to approach certain ideas, or a very limited idea of history, especially if the only history (as an example) classes they've been required to take in high school is a history of their own country only as is the case in Ontario and possibly all of Canada. This results in an astonishing level of ignorance about the history of the world as a whole.
In the same way, many people who focus on the humanities are completely ignorant of certain scientific concepts. I know; I graduated with only a grade 10 level of Biology and grade 11 of Chemistry. Now I find myself driven to figure out even a basic idea of how the world works. I am lucky that I have an very strong interest in science and so I am willing to take the effort to continue learning or I would be very ignorant indeed.
In my experience a balanced education is by far the best. Young people should be forced to learn a variety of subjects because a wide understanding of the world is far more useful and healthy than a narrow one.
quote:Not being good in math doesn't mean I have a lack of focus or something. I'm just not good at math. There's like a mental block or something and it's been like that for years.
In Syn's defence, her trouble with mathematics is not exactly unsual. Some people seem to simply have a real problem thinking in a mathematical way and thus dealing with mathematical problems. Why? I don't now. Syn's right; trouble with math is not necessarily to do with a lack of focus, it can be simply a difficult subject for some people.
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posted
Banna, it's okay. My boyfriend is a mechanical engineer, and I have a bachelor of business administration, so we're animals too. Let's start a farm.
posted
Teshi, I'm not saying what you study is specifically lesser in any way shape or form. I'm saying that many people who do study what you do, come out lacking the broadminded thought and communication skills that Irami thinks they should be gaining by studying those things.
I also strongly object to being told that what I studied is worthless, only for laborers and you could easily learn it on the job if you already know history and philosophy. Cause it isn't true.
posted
Teshi, I see what you're saying. Think about how I feel, especially considering the attitudes of some. Business school is clearly just for people who want to make an easy buck and doesn't teach anything useful at all, right?
Even WITHOUT my common curriculum courses (which included music, history, philosophy, religion, epic literature) I still had to learn plenty of non-"trade school" things. Business classes, good business classes, require you to understand philosophy, psychology, statistics, and to have good writing skills, among many, many other things. It frustrates me when people belittle business students, and I think that those kinds of negative attitudes clearly show a complete lack of understanding of the scope of a good business curriculum.
quote:you can force them to learn as much as possible and in a wide a spectrum as possible.
The trouble is that you can't, really. You can force them to sit a class in order to graduate, but that's no guarentee that they will learn (by which I mean remember, think about, and retain much past the final exam). It's the horse to water problem. Some people just aren't interested in some things, and forcing too much won't solve the problem.
I do agree that a certain degree of competance in a wide range should be required, so I'm not proposing that math and history, etc., should be completely optional. With enough resources, I think it would be possible to provide electives within an area that would appeal more to those who don't particularly want to study that area. For example, sf/fan lit classes would probably attract the interest of a different crowd than Moderism. Or in a physics class, focus on theoretical physics- string theory, etc -that would give a motivation and a reason to people like, say, me, to learn some basics so as to not be even more lost.
In conclusion, the trouble with education is that it's hard to find the resources to enable treating ALL subjects (including history, literature, philosophy, psychology, etc.) as though they are about more than banging rocks together.
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quote:you can force them to learn as much as possible and in a wide a spectrum as possible.
This is what I don't agree with. I'm advocating that students learn how to read, listen, write, and speak well. The first two are active; the second two are passive. I believe that this is more important than taking a smattering of subjects and treating all worldly knowledge like a plate of tapas.
At the end of my brand of education, the person doesn't have any illusions that they "know" how to do anything, but the person will be adequately adept at learning to inquire with due perspicuity, setting them down the road to a life of learning adequate to the demands and liberties of a person living in a free society.
I'm not advocating for wide breadth of specialized formal education. I'm advocating for a core, and for my money, all of these social and behavioral sciences could be done away with outright, especially at the high school level.
Anecdote:
I was chatting with a teacher least weekend. She teaches "Consumer Education." Apparently that's the name of a class. And it's darn near a requirement. It's a city school and there are too many kids who end up pregnant or with unmanageable cell phone bills, and the schools think that the best way to address at least the latter problem is require "Consumer Education."
I: I didn't take anything like that when I was in high school.
Teacher: You aren't from Chicago.
I: California. I don't know if I agree with such a class.
Teacher: You'd be surprised what some of what these kids don't know.
I: I just don't know if I agree with what you are teaching them in that class.
Teacher: Kids need to know how to fill out a check.
I: Yep.
Teacher: They don't know what to put in the "Memo" box.
I: I guess someone should tell them.
Teacher: What would you say?
I: The truth? (Fish swim, birds fly, and I flirt with school teachers, but it's ticklish business to say that I don't respect what you teach, and I doubt you do it very well, but you are still hot. I continued with a bit of sadness.)
Teacher: Yes. What would you say?
(I doubt I'm the first man to try to take a woman to bed with designs on changing the quality of her pedagogy.)
I: I don't know. My approach isn't fashionable, but this what I'd do. I'd write on the board: "Mnemosyne"
She is the mother of the muses. The muses being where we get the term music. I imagine that most kids are familiar with word music. Well, in order to create music, you need the faculty of memory.
Memo is derived from Goddess Mnemosyne, or her Latin cognate memor, where we get the words memory, memorabilia, memorandum, Memorial Day(the holiday we just celebrated), and the memo box is there to help you remember why you wrote the check.
I know it's the long way around, but I think if more children were taught well, we wouldn't need classes like consumer education. _____________
Then again, by my standards, teacher education would look completely different. Instead of training our best and brightest to be administrators, we'd train them to be teachers. I got lucky. She threw me softball, even though she didn't know it was a softball, but with a trickier question, I think that it's a good idea to start with the OED. Granted, this assumes that the teacher has some knowledge of Greek language and culture, Latin language and attending cultures, and possibly German language and culture, but hey, when we speak and teach in English, it's part of the job. It's like teaching early American History without knowing anything about British common law.
posted
Reading Iram's comments, all I can think is dang, he has never been in an inner city classroom before.
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posted
Even if I were a country boy from a farm in Nebraska, it doesn't change that Mnemosyne is the mother of the muses, and that etymology is a more than adequate mnemonic strategy.
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posted
Okay. Based on what's been said in this thread, I think Irami should volunteer to tutor Synesthesia.
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I don't know. My approach isn't fashionable, but this what I'd do. I'd write on the board: "Mnemosyne"
Student: You spelled that wrong.
Irami: I spelled it how it is meant to be spelled.
Student: Then it's wrong. (aside) Teacher don't even know how to spell. (laughter)
Irami: She is the mother of the muses. The muses being where we get the term music.
Student: Who cares where the word comes from? This class is stupid.
Irami: Well, in order to create music, you need the faculty of memory.
Student: No you don't. You can freestyle, and you don't need to remember what you said.
Another student: What's a faculty? Ain't that the teachers and stuff?
Irami: Memo is derived from Goddess Mnemosyne -
Student: Goddess? Who cares about goddesses?
Another student: Goddesses aren't real. My mother says that anyone who talks about goddesses is a witch.
Irami: --or her Latin cognate memor--
Student: Cognate? That greek or something? What's that mean?
Irami: --where we get the words memory, memorabilia, memorandum, Memorial Day(the holiday we just celebrated), and the memo box is there to help you remember why you wrote the check.
Student: Who cares where the words come from? What's a memorabilia?
Student: That's like for drug stuff.
Student: No, stupid, that's paraphernalia.
Student: So what does that have to do with checks?
Student: No offense, teach, but the government don't need me to know about goddesses and strange words - they just need their check on time... so what do I use the memo box for?
***
Irami has obviously never tried to teach a group of students who don't want to learn.
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quote: Irami has obviously never tried to teach a group of students who don't want to learn.
Integral to Irami's teaching philosophy has always been the assumption that all people want to learn, or can be taught to want to learn.
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quote:Yes, but that doesn't make it a good way to teach kids to write a check.
The kids didn't know what the memo box was for, and now they do. That my approach opened the door for more questions, as Flying Cow's dialogue shows, is a felicitous by-product. It's nice to know a discussion about something seemingly mundane can open the door to thoughtful, honest questions and an awareness of our intellectual legacy.
If the only issues covered in an hour's class are:
Who cares where the word comes from?
Cognate? That greek or something? What's that mean?
So what does that have to do with checks?
Goddess? Who cares about goddesses?
Who cares where the words come from? What's a memorabilia? (The immediate answer to the first question is, "You do," which is why you asked the second question.) ________
It's slow work, but it's the work of developing a core and teaching learners, even if they are initially reluctant, even violent in the form of balled up checks. I find this exercise much more appropriate to the task of education than the pitiable task of merely teaching kids how to fill out forms. Again, it's slow work, but I don't think that it is supposed to be otherwise.
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What is a memo box though? Can't say I am interested in that. But I am interested in mythology and the like.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Flying Cow, You forgot the very next question the students are likely to ask, at least if I remember high school and my undergraduate experiences correctly.
Student: Is this gonna be on the test? (while preparing to completely mentally shut down if the answer is "no")
Posts: 82 | Registered: Jan 2006
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Irami seems to be focusing on the wrong issue. The students didn't ask what "memo" meant or the where the word came from. They wanted to know why the memo line is on the check and what it's for. Greek mythology won't teach them that. Someone needs to say "That's where you write down why you wrote the check so when you do your bookeeping you know what you spent that money on."
Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote:Someone needs to say "That's where you write down why you wrote the check so when you do your bookeeping you know what you spent that money on."
No, I disagree. I think that this assumes that kids are stupid, which is much more dangerous than overestimating them, in my estimation. What happens when they see the memo button on their answering machine?
I do think that it would be appropriate to, after my explanation, ask the class what they think the memo box on a check is for, and have them guess, rightly and wrongly, by the light of my explanation.
They should know the sense of the word "Memo," and go from there, such that when they read the phrase "Since time immemorial," they'll have a strong intuition as to the sense of the phrase.
quote:No, I disagree. I think that this assumes that kids are stupid, which is much more dangerous than overestimating them, in my estimation. What happens when they see the memo button on their answering machine?
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You know how heroes who can teleport get squeamish if they can't see where they are going. Making the decision to be focused and disciplined becomes all the harder if you don't know what focused and more disciplined "looks" like. ![[ROFL]](graemlins/rofl.gif)
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