posted
I read your post Rebuke (to be honest, one of the few I read through in this entire thread) and I was quite impressed. I don't agree with you on the "relative truth" thinger, but you did an excellent job of expressing yourself. I wish I had that gift. I remember the time I tried to tell everyone in one of the political threads that "no one was going to get anywhere, lets just agree to disagree". My post, which I spent a lot of time and thought on, much like yours appeared to be, was ignored . Hatrack does tend to have some masochistic tendencies at times . Welcome though, and I hope you stay and continue to contribute.
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Just FYI, Rebuke, several of our members, including a couple who have been active in this thread, are Jewish. So I'm not sure you really want to make that joke.
And welcome to Hatrack.
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I don't have a No Soliciting sign, but have been thinking about getting one. The main reason I haven't is that I like supporting kids who come door to door selling stuff for school. If I got one, I would certainly think it would apply to missionaries. Those of you who think it would only apply to people selling things -- what should I put up instead? I've never seen a No Missionaries sign at the hardware store. I wouldn't want to put up two, anyway. What conveys the message that if I don't know you, I don't want you ringing my doorbell?
My reason isn't that I don't want to be "bothered" by missionaries, I'm perfectly capable of politely telling them I'm not interested. My reason is that I've had several people come to my door for one reason or another (salesmen, political reps) who've made me exceedingly uncomfortable. I'm a single woman living alone in not the best neighborhood in the world, and every time my doorbell rings when I'm not expecting someone, I am cautious. There have been numerous daytime break-ins in the neighborhood lately. I don't like answering the door. I'm not going to buy anything from someone at my door and I'm not gong to change religions, either. So what sign can I put out that will get people to just walk on by? (Leaving a note would be fine, I just don't want them to ring my doorbell and expect me to answer.)
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ElJay: Just FYI, Rebuke, several of our members, including a couple who have been active in this thread, are Jewish. So I'm not sure you really want to make that joke.
Indeed. *eyes Rebuke warily*
Back on topic, I want my city to start one of these. Too bad it ain't gonna happen.
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Back on topic, I want my city to start one of these. Too bad it ain't gonna happen.
Interesting that the site makes these definitions:
quote:Peddler means any person traveling either by foot, automobile, truck or another type of conveyance from place to place, door to door or street to street, taking or attempting to take orders for profit by the sale of goods, wares, and merchandise or personal property of any nature whatsoever for immediate or future delivery or for services to be furnished or performed immediately or in the future.
Solicitor means any person who obtains or seeks to obtain funds for any cause whatsoever by traveling door to door either by foot, automobile, truck or any other type of conveyance upon the private residences, including any house, apartment or other dwelling, within the City.
Neither of those definitions cover LDS Missionaries. In fact, it says in the FAQ:
quote:If I join the registry and post the sign decal, are there any uninvited persons who can still come to my door?
Yes, the Ordinance only addresses those individuals seeking funding. Individuals who wish to conduct polling or surveying, circulate petitions, engage in political or religious speech, or other similar conduct in which funds are not being sought are not prohibited by the Ordinance on the basis of constitutional grounds.
posted
LDS missionaries owe a lot to Jehovah's Witnesses because of ordinances like this. The findings that a city cannot prohibit proseltying door to door came mostly from cases brought by JWs against cities that tried to forbid it. Let's hear it for the Bill of Rights. Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Taalcon, that would be because previous attempts to ban them have been struck down on First Amendment grounds, not because of usual definitions. Read the article.
Dan, I'll take the girl scout, if she comes bearing Thin Mints. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: LDS missionaries owe a lot to Jehovah's Witnesses because of ordinances like this. The findings that a city cannot prohibit proseltying door to door came mostly from cases brought by JWs against cities that tried to forbid it. Let's hear it for the Bill of Rights.
Or the other way around. It was JW's that got people mad enough to try and make it illegal. But hey Ill thank their attorneys for not ruining it for everybody.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by JennaDean: Get a custom-made sign like this:
No trespassing No proselyting No soliciting* *Girl Scouts excepted
I don't like girl scout cookies, I still have two boxes in my freezer from I think 3 years ago. I want the kids selling chocolate to stop by, though. And really, part of my problem is that signs like that seem rude. I don't want to be rude, I just want to politely tell people I'm not interested and they're wasting their time. I know, I can't really have it both ways.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
It probably is. But to me, "No Soliciting" on it's own isn't too bad. It's just one small sign, discreetly saying I'd rather not be bothered. When you add "No Trespassing" and 'No Proselyting" it gets to be "Man, what kind of a grump lives here, who feels the need to put all these restrictions on her door?" If I walked up to a friend's house and saw that sign, I'd be a bit taken aback. Actually, I'd probably figure they'd been having lots of problems with it and were at the end of their rope. I'm not really there. Yet.
Added: This was to rivka. Jenna, I would never do that, so it isn't a question of being less rude than that. It's a question of being less rude than answering the door and politely telling them I'm not interested.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ElJay: When you add "No Trespassing" and 'No Proselyting" it gets to be "Man, what kind of a grump lives here, who feels the need to put all these restrictions on her door?"
*laugh* Ok, it's not cultural, then. It's just me. I have no problem with people thinking I'm a grump. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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"Look, if I'm home, I'm probably running around in my drawers and will have to put on clothes to answer the door which will annoy me unless I like you a lot."
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Maybe "No Uninvited Guests, Please"? And if you have friends who are welcome to drop by whenever, you can let them know they have a standing invitation.
Of course, that may not be a strong enough statement to deter people. You could leave off the "please," but then it kinda sounds rude again...
Posts: 952 | Registered: Jun 2005
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I carry no emnity toward any religious creed. The point is the reaction you get when you spout mindless, harmful propaganda. People are more keen to interest themselves in responding to a completely mindless comment than a well-constructed thought.
We humans are a funny breed.
I thought about including a disclaimer at the bottom of the point I was trying to make above, but that would have been less fun.
posted
I figured. If I had thought you were serious, I wouldn't have merely eyed you warily. Remember, I don't care if you think I'm a grump.
Oh, and welcome to Hatrack. You will find that while thoughtful posts are not always responded to, they are generally READ. No responses isn't always a bad thing (at least, that's what I keep telling myself when my pearls of wisdom are not responded to ).
kmb, the problem with your sign is that it's a bit more information than I'd be happy giving random strangers coming to my door (or most of my friends, for that matter).
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I know I'm late to the thread, but I just want to say that, unless you are getting, like, a million missionaries a year, I don't get the dislike of missionaries coming to your door. I've never met one that wouldn't leave when asked, and they were all pleasant. *shrug*
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I just don't like answering the door, regardless of who's knocking. I'm not saying I won't do it, just that I'd rather not.
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Dan_raven: soliciting girl scout.
Uh, Dan, you DO know that you can get into quite a lot of trouble for soliciting girl scouts, right?
Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Megan: I just don't like answering the door, regardless of who's knocking. I'm not saying I won't do it, just that I'd rather not.
Precisely. I knew someone who suggested an invention like an answering machine, but for the doorbell. Sadly, the last I heard she hadn't actually invented it yet.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I would love to get some missionaries at the door. I haven't had a chance to use my karate skills in such a long time.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
Why deny yourself the satisfaction of storming outside in all your glory to scare off the intruders with a cigarette dangling out of your mouth, brandishing a rolling pin, in curlers and bathrobe?
"Accept Jesus, my ass!" "Eternal life, my ass!"
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
Well, Scott, if you want to put your ass where your mouth is, please pick a time and place. You may bring any number of Girl Scouts as backup.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
You don't want to go challenging people to fisticuffs, KoM. The last person who did that, well, it ended in tears.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Well, Scott, if you want to put your ass where your mouth is, please pick a time and place. You may bring any number of Girl Scouts as backup.
I'm not an unaccomplished pugilist myself, but I have to admit I'd be frightened of someone with that sort of flexibility, with or withoout his uniformed minions.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote: You don't want to go challenging people to fisticuffs, KoM. The last person who did that, well, it ended in tears.
Actually, I'm pretty sure there's an unwritten rule for all internet dialogue that the first person to actually be goofy enough to resort to trying to pick an actual physical fight is laughed at by the rest of the forum.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
I know, ElJay. I'm in the same bind. I'm so attached to my privacy that I am willing to miss out on the kids with chocolate, though, as I also am interested in discouraging using children as fund-raising tools. (I have concerns about safety as well as other things.)
Attempts at creative solutions (any feedback, anybody?):
quote:"Please do not knock without specific invitation."
"No business at this door, whether public or private (including charity and religious)."
I prefer the latter, as it seems to me to most accurately present my policy. I don't want necessarily to dissuade someone who is in trouble (e.g., with a flat tire, etc.).
In bronze and with clear lettering, would it still sound overly grumpy, or just firm? I'm going for firm.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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quote:Well, Scott, if you want to put your ass where your mouth is, please pick a time and place. You may bring any number of Girl Scouts as backup.
I'm not an unaccomplished pugilist myself, but I have to admit I'd be frightened of someone with that sort of flexibility, with or without his uniformed minions.
For Scott, I am thinking, the feat would actually be fairly easy.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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posted
I was thinking "Please Go Away," actually. But that's just because I'm grumpy today.
quote:. . .I don't get the dislike of missionaries coming to your door. I've never met one that wouldn't leave when asked, and they were all pleasant.
Like I said, Storm, I've had unpleasant experiences with people coming to my door, and as such do not like opening it to strangers at all. I've never actually had Mormon missionaries stop by. I just don't want my doorbell to ring unless I'm expecting someone. This is also partly due to the creepy letter I got last year from someone saying he had a crush on me and was watching my house. *shrug*
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
O.K. I didn't really say it as a criticism, though I do feel bad for you that you had knuckleheads make you feel unsafe in your home.
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
From my point of view, it's also that I want to keep my home life calm and restful. I do so much during the day that revolves around addressing the needs and desires of others that I find myself really desperate for some time that I don't have to negotiate the goals of other people for a while, even if they think it is in my best interest.
It isn't all (for me) just a matter of feeling unsafe or threatened, but moreso a matter of feeling stretched overly thin. I do not want to be impolite, but trying not to do more damage in the world (including by being rude to young missionaries who believe they are doing their God's work) takes a lot of energy.
I feel like baking soda -- I have only so much buffering ability, and when that reserve is used up, I start to degrade. And being quietly pleasant and saying yet again, "No, thank you, I am not interested. No, I am not interested. Have a lovely day. No, I do not want XYZ, but I appreciate your sincerity. No, please, no," just uses up the buffer eventually. There are many days when I feel (a'la Bilbo) stretched too thin like butter over dry toast, and I structure my days to minimize social negotiations like this whenever possible -- I buy lunch at a deli or bring my own rather than deal with waitstaff, I use self-serve gas stations with pay-at-the-pump option, and so forth. Little things that end up -- no one thing is too much, but together, they can carry significant weight.
It isn't that the world has to accomodate me. I'd just like the discretion not to engage the world if at all possible,* as a matter of caring best for self and others in the long run.
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*(Of course, this is in itself a luxury, as I well understand. Most people in the world do not have this option.)
----
I will say that my life is stretched less thin than before, and I can tell I have much deeper emotional reserves again. When my mother was dying and I was working 36-hr shifts, the need for peace was more dire in my life. All that has passed. This is a beautiful thing, and I cherish it.
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*Edited to add: I suppose I could take the irritation of dealing with people I don't want to deal with and offer it up for the souls in purgatory. I am enough of a Catholic still that this has some calming psychological effect, even if I am not a believer. And it was a helpful approach for me, way back when. I do believe I'll try that.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
I've never actually Mormon missionaries come to my door either.
(though apparently, back when we were living in an apartment in a less-than-nice neighborhood, they came knocking when I wasn't home and my husband was. I am sorry to say that, instead of merely politely declining, he politely declined their offer and then asked instead if they had any information on Satanism. I'm sure he thought he was being playful.)
Posts: 4077 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
I didn't take it as a criticism. You said you didn't get it, so I was trying to explain. And, really, I do feel safe most of the time. But an unexpected knock at the door does make me feel, uneasy, would be the best word. And that's not the solicitor's fault, precisely, they have no way of knowing I've had to deal with jerks. But I would still rather not have to deal with it.
Posts: 7954 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ElJay: I didn't take it as a criticism. You said you didn't get it, so I was trying to explain. And, really, I do feel safe most of the time. But an unexpected knock at the door does make me feel, uneasy, would be the best word. And that's not the solicitor's fault, precisely, they have no way of knowing I've had to deal with jerks. But I would still rather not have to deal with it.
Not that ElJay needs any verification of her feelings by me, but I have this, as well. It reminds me of the feeling I get whenever I hear footsteps behind me, despite the fact that it may be broad daylight in the middle of a "safe" neighborhood. It's a prickling in the back of the neck, a hair-raised alertness that takes a while to go away again, even if there is nothing wrong.
Again, it has more widespread effects on emotional reserves, at least for me.
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
( Me, too! I am working towards the day when I can be at peace in the midst of chaos, 24/7. Maybe someday. It is an ongoing project, and the goal seems very very far away. I think this is in large part -- at least in my case -- a matter of deeply ingrained tempermant and personality, even moreso than outside pressures. Would that it were not so, but we all have our own crosses to bear.)
Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
We've stopped getting J-witnesses at our door after they tried following my grandpa's car up our driveway a few thanksgivings ago. Retired Army. He stopped in the middle of our driveway (Parents live out in the middle of no where now), and went to their car. A minute later he is walking back to his, and the car is backing out. We didn't ask what he said.
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
KOM: Unfortunately they would not be allowed to fight back, lest they risk being sent home. It be pretty boring fighting missionaries (who obey the rules) as they would simply take your blows, or try to run away.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:You don't want to go challenging people to fisticuffs, KoM. The last person who did that, well, it ended in tears.
That's actually true in a quite literal sense. Uwe Boll, best known for his atrocious film adaptations of video game franchises, challenged his many internet-based detractors to a boxing match. He may or may not have mentioned that he was a trained boxer. Subsequently, someone by the name of "Lowtax" (IIRC) took him up on it, and Boll pounded him into submission within a couple of minutes.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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posted
I usually enjoy having door-to-door folks come by. One of the things I picked off this forum that struck me immediately as true was TomD's "rule" to always buy whatever the under-10 crowd is selling.
The vacuum cleaner salesmen and their ilk get a harder facade-- but I'll listen for up to thirty seconds, especially if they're charismatic.
I welcome all religious representatives and political boosters inside, and offer them water, or a snack or something. I know what it's like to be out there, slogging away with a message most people don't want to hear and don't believe it when they do.
Posts: 14554 | Registered: Dec 1999
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. Hatrack does tend to have some masochistic tendencies at times ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
. Welcome though, and I hope you stay and continue to contribute.
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I'm sure he thought he was being playful.)
