quote:Originally posted by General Sax: I am not sure but I think that the anglo-saxon slang for primary sexual traits is a no-no here, I am sure that the Papa Janitor will have rude things to say about it if you do not edit a bit.
Again. I was using the word in it's adjective form, which is not the same as using it as slang for a piece of anatomy. But for the sake of civility, I will edit.
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quote:Originally posted by General Sax: I am not sure but I think that the anglo-saxon slang for primary sexual traits is a no-no here, I am sure that the Papa Janitor will have rude things to say about it if you do not edit a bit.
Again. I was using the word in it's adjective form, which is not the same as using it as slang for a piece of anatomy. But for the sake of civility, I will edit.
Wow. I just got to the AF being *expletive deleted*s and sort of shut down. I make fun of the Army, Navy and Marines because I work with them all and it's good-natured. What you said was not in accordance with the rules of the game.
Therefore, I feel it's my duty as a member of the force to prove your assessment wrong. If you ever come to GA, let me know, and I can iron this/you out.
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quote:Therefore, I feel it's my duty as a member of the force to prove your assessment wrong. If you ever come to GA, let me know, and I can iron this/you out.
And we have bachelor number three, does that mean I get to be Chuck Barris?
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quote:The Central Asian theater under Rumsfeld has really maintained high morals(no alcohol, fraternization rules enforced, etc). The army has CID men even in Germany and Korea stopping soldiers from frequenting the perfectly legal brothels (the little brown sisterhood actually protested bless their hearts...) so it is clear that much of the Peacetime antics are no longer allowed.
'Little brown sisterhood' isn't one I've heard before.
Anyway, the Korean posts have to be pretty gnarly duty. The DPRK keeps border duty strenuous, and yet there's no reduction in formalities.
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It's pretty easy to be the good guys in comparison with North Korea, which is by far the most dystopic nation on earth.
I saw a documentary on it, by a guy named Pettigrew. He had a rare chance to wander within the country and bring a camera. Real crawly stuff, there. And South Korea's doing pretty good, too! multi-party democracy, tech savvy, booming trade, Starcraft tourneys that can be seen from space ..
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quote:Originally posted by airmanfour: Wow. I just got to the AF being *expletive deleted*s and sort of shut down. I make fun of the Army, Navy and Marines because I work with them all and it's good-natured. What you said was not in accordance with the rules of the game.
Therefore, I feel it's my duty as a member of the force to prove your assessment wrong. If you ever come to GA, let me know, and I can iron this/you out.
Well, I spent plenty of time with airmen while I was at Fort. Carson and so I know exactly how empty your threats are. At any rate...THIS IS AN INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD!!! I thought eveyone already knew how ridiculous you can look when you try and threaten someone here (unless you are a moderator, of course. Then the threat usually has the word "banned" in it.) So go jump on your exercise bike to practice for your PT test and get busy not serving in combat.
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And I may have been out of line there. I don't really have anything against airmen. I think they are great people, most of them. Probably better people on average than army grunts. They're just not real soldiers. And they create resentment in the other branches because they are better paid, receive better compensation, don't do half the work and never put their lives on the line. And you will probably try and argue with me about it, but I saw it and I know. So before you do, answer me this: how many airmen have died in combat since Vietnam? How many even died in vietnam? What do they do that any other branch of the service cannot do? And how com airman who are stationed at an Army or Marine base get paid extra for "sub-standard living conditions?" Why are they allowed to go to school full time for free while serving active duty, while army guys need a waiver to take at maximum 6 hours a week, which is never granted if there is any training on the schedule? I was denied once because there "might" be training.
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Good point. While I'd like to smack people for saying dumb stuff, it's not a good idea. So I'll be content daydreaming about it.
I've never met a soldier with your attitude, but the 98s and 97s are so wound up in training with us pitiful AF people that I guess they get polluted early.
We're not supposed to be soldiers. If we wanted to we could have joined the Army and then be bitter when we found out that the AF considers our living conditions sub-standard and has more opportunities than the Army does. Wake up at 0430 for PT, have to go between my team, squad, and platoon leaders to finally be referred to my 1SG. Get a 180(?) on my PT test so I can be exempt from morning PT and then be told I have to show up anyway to "help motivate my ate-up, unmotivated, broken battle-buddy".
Yeah, sounds like fun. Not.
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As far as branch rivalry, I will sit and have a drink with anyone in the service and have a good time. All my chiding is just that. I hold nothing against any branch, even "part-timers." So I don't really see your point in being a jerk to airmanfour, Reshpeckobiggle.
After all, all your duty has been shore duty. Lucky you. Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by airmanfour: Good point. While I'd like to smack people for saying dumb stuff, it's not a good idea. So I'll be content daydreaming about it.
I've never met a soldier with your attitude, but the 98s and 97s are so wound up in training with us pitiful AF people that I guess they get polluted early.
We're not supposed to be soldiers. If we wanted to we could have joined the Army and then be bitter when we found out that the AF considers our living conditions sub-standard and has more opportunities than the Army does. Wake up at 0430 for PT, have to go between my team, squad, and platoon leaders to finally be referred to my 1SG. Get a 180(?) on my PT test so I can be exempt from morning PT and then be told I have to show up anyway to "help motivate my ate-up, unmotivated, broken battle-buddy".
Yeah, sounds like fun. Not.
I don't know if anything I said was dumb, but you do have a point about making the right choice. My point is that is a definite blow to our morale knowing that arguably the most useless branch of the military (the Air Force does nothing the Navy couldn't do) is treated so much better than all the others. I don't have problem with the Air Force in particular, nor with you. Like I said, you were smart to join the Air Force. There is a certain degree of envy in my residual bitterness. No, my problem is with the preferential treatment, and that is something I'm sure everyone can identify with.
As far as the specific points you make, I generally got up around 6, not 4:30, for PT (didn't get off work until 6 most days of course, not to mention the 24 hour staff duty and CQ shifts every week or so); I've never heard of anyone being exempt from PT, and if it were to happen, the cutoff sure as hell wouldn't be anything as low as 180, maybe the 300s; and as for my attitue, I assure you that I am not in the minority for Army guys at least; the resentment is palpable. But since one of the things we have to be resentful about is that no one cares what we think, nothing will ever be done about it. Unless the Air Force all of the sudden decided to speak up about the injustice.
And I don't know what you're talking about, Stan. I got shot at and saw my share of blood during the year I spent in that hellhole between Baghdad and Tikrit.
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If you are referring to the last part of my last post, it was a joke. Hence the at the end of it. I was hoping that it would relay that I wasn't exactly being serious.
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Oh. Hard to interpret that. I thought maybe you were just saying "no hard feelings," or something.
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Oh, and one more thing: We don't make fun of the weekend warriors or part-timers anymore. They get longer deployments than active duty now. Sucks.
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Oh, I know that. Buddy of mine was in the reserves and went to Iraq a couple years back. Tell you what, for the money that is offered, I'd go back out there. Wouldn't think twice about it.
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Not me. I was offered an A3 re-enlistment bonus, which would have meant about $18,000. But it was also a guarantee for going back to Iraq. If I'm going back to Iraq, it's as a civilian where I can make about three times as much, including that bonus.
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It must have been 290 then, we score it out of 100, so I get the two confused sometimes. The exercise bike test went the way of the Dodo before I joined, FYI.
$18000? What did you do? Ours is somewhere between $30-50k now, but I'd rather chop off my leg. I just looked at the 97E PF SRBs and those guys are making a killing. 3.5A for an E-4. Maybe I should join the army.
And Stan referring to shore duty references the fact that in the Navy you're not a real person until you've "been to the fleet". I've heard it's one of the strangest experiences ever.
Sorry you got shot at.
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Don't be sorry. It happens. At least I didn't get hit.
I was an 88M. A3 (or 3A, whichever) was 3x base pay x nuber of years re-enlistment. E-5 pay being around $2,000 for 3 more years. This was two years ago.
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quote:Originally posted by General Sax: I heard an amusing story out of a marine base in California, some 'gang bangers' got all drugged up and shot at a Marine guarded gate with pistols or machine guns. The Marines signaled their overwatch and the 240B shreaded the car and killed them as easily as a cat terrier kills a rat.
I'm going to assume that "marine base in California" is 29 Palms, given that it's the largest Marine base in the world, and it's in California. Doubts of the veracity of that story aside, and lack of knowledge of WHEN it took place, I still take issue with your "amusement" at such a story.
My brother served at 29 Palms for two years. He got out of the service just before Afghanistan and Iraq, but anyone talking about "amusement" at the thought of someone shooting bullets at a place my brother served, possibly while he was there, severely pisses me off, to say nothing about your casual disregard for human life.
I don't even have the words to describe how your attitude offends me.
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And Stan referring to shore duty references the fact that in the Navy you're not a real person until you've "been to the fleet". I've heard it's one of the strangest experiences ever.
More like one of the greatest as far as I am concerned. I loved going out to sea. Those that served with me couldn't always tell, but I did. On the days I didn't have watch, I would wake up at 0530 and watch the sunrise with a cup of coffee and a cigarette. Greatest start to a day. It's always the same sun and the same ocean, but there is always something different about it.
That and the fact that going out to sea gave me a sense of purpose. I was involved in everything from training, safety, maintenance, and mentoring. Now I work in supply, and I don't like it so much. I want to be on a ship, teaching a NUB (new useless body) how to do proper valve mainetence, how to run drills, and to give boards again.
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So*...lets get this straight. Might makes right?
What they did could have gotten me kicked out of the service, and could have gotten them kicked out as well....except for the fact that the whole system is corrupt. Cheating qualifying with a rifle? If you need an extra 4 bullets the pass then you shouldn't be in the Army at all, and that isn't only MY opinion...it is the minimum standard for the Army as well. If you can't shoot, don't get into my foxhole. If you can't carry a strecher, don't be a medic.
It isn't rocket science. Why are there pictograms on MRE's if all soldiers are so smart? Tin Foil is smarter?
If you think a .22, which is usually used for shooting rabbits, gophers, and squirrels, and an M-16 shoot even close to the same, then I doubt you ever shot either. Most of the "good ole boys" didn't do great on their rifle qualification. Not because they couldn't shoot, but because they felt they already knew how to, and didn't listen to the instructors enough.
Sax, it IS wrong to kill people, which is why there are so many rules against it, and different types of charges depending on the situation. It is even wrong to kill someone accidentally, which BTW is called negligent homicide. You didn't mean to kill anyone, but your negligence cause their death anyway.
Sometimes it is the lesser of evils, but that never makes it right. THAT was the comment that I had a problem with, to be honest, even though I realized that you were just being bombastic. I know, from painful personal knowledge, that sometimes you have no other option, but it is rarely the correct path to take....particularly if there are other options at the time.
First you quote an "Urban Legend" to make a point....when called on it, you claim that the truth of your "story" is not relevant....then you claim to have such a wonderful "understanding of violence" that you fail to understand why killing is wrong.
But this is all caused by the fact that I didn't liked getting smoked 15 years ago.
Your intellect "amazes" me almost as much as your apparent lack of morality disgusts me.
My aunt Maureen was a full Col. in the Marines, I was in the Army (USAMRIID, one of the highest concentration of intelligent people on the planet), my dad (who is without a doubt one of the smartest people I have ever met) was in the Army in Korea, my uncle Jim was in the Navy (South Pacific), and my uncle Bobby died in the Army on D-Day.
I am familiar with the Armed Forces, to say the least. If you look at all my posts, I have defended the Service more than most....but it is hardly the brain trust that some people try to make it out to be.
Most of the really intelligent people I did know if the AF did the same thing I did....they got out as soon as they could, and used the GI bill to get a real education. Some of them made a career out of it...particularly the guys I knew in the Navy, who were working in Subs and with Nuclear Reactors.
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quote:Originally posted by Kwea: I am familiar with the Armed Forces, to say the least. If you look at all my posts, I have defended the Service more than most....but it is hardly the brain trust that some people try to make it out to be.
Most of the really intelligent people I did know if the AF did the same thing I did....they got out as soon as they could, and used the GI bill to get a real education. Some of them made a career out of it...particularly the guys I knew in the Navy, who were working in Subs and with Nuclear Reactors.
LOL "Brain Trust" is not the world I would use either. I like to think I was a few degrees more intelligent than my battle buddies, and I did just that: got out after four years and went straight to school ( 25-yr-old junior at CSU now). But I'm gonna use some statistical terminology now, and what you have to do is compare the relative risk of stupidity of someone who is not in the military with someone who is. I'd put it around 1.2, which is not much, but statistically significant to be sure.
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I think that doesn't take into effect some of the truly stupid people I have met while in the service.
You know, the people who are PROUD of the fact that they have NEVER read an entire book in their lives.
I don't know if they are more stupid than anyone else, but the fact that they are armed makes me worry about it more.
I will admit that a lot of people go into the service just for the GI bill, and that raises the curve more than a little.
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As far as the shore duty pass I made earlier. Here is a joke I found to go along with. It is edited for language.
An old Sailor and an old Marine were sitting at the VFW arguing about who'd had the tougher career.
"I did 30 years in the Corps, " the Marine declared proudly, "and fought in three of my country's wars. Fresh out of boot camp, I hit the beach at Okinawa, clawed my way up the blood-soaked sand, and eventually took out an entire enemy machine gun nest with a single grenade. As a sergeant, I fought in Korea alongside General MacArthur. We pushed back the enemy inch by bloody inch, all the way up to the Chinese border, always under a barrage of artillery and small arms fire. Finally, as a Gunny Sergeant, I did three consecutive combat tours in Vietnam. We humped through the mud and razor grass for 14 hours a day, plagued by rain and mosquitoes, ducking under sniper fire all day, and mortar fire all night. In a firefight, we'd fire until our arms ached and our guns were empty, then we'd charge the enemy with bayonets!"
"Ah, " said the Sailor with a dismissive wave of his hand, "lucky you! All shore duty, huh?"
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Oh yeah! I almost forgot my biggest biggest issue with the Navy. When they GIVE(!!!) EVERY SINGLE CTI IN THE COMMAND A 40GB VIDEO IPOD for "training"! They do EXACTLY the same thing we do and get iPods! Who's the spoiled service now? Stan.
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BTW, Engineering types are lucky to get anything. Things such as Camelbacks were great when we were out in the North Arabian Sea. Our ventillation may be great in the engineering spaces, but it's not air conditioned.
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I'd trade air-conditioning for windows. Going to work when it's dawn, and leaving when it's dusk is more than a little bit confusing when there's no visible progression.
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Sadly enough, the a/c units are in the engineering spaces, but we don't get any (except on subs, where everything is air conditioned). I won't take any windows. I work below the water line. Bad things could happen. Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
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To Kwea: The part about being stupid and armed, yeah...
But my point was about balancing the idiots on both sides. And it is more likely that any random civilian you meet is some drug addict or thug or hillbilly with a room-temperature IQ than any random soldier.
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Uh, not so much as you might think. Of course that depends on where you live too. Like if you live near me. I live about 2 blocks outside of crack central east coast.
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Yeah, it depends. Even in the inner city (I grew up near Detroit) most people just want a regular life. They go to work, keep their heads down, and hope no one violent notices them or their families.
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Yeah, it depends. Even in the inner city (I grew up near Detroit) most people just want a regular life. They go to work, keep their heads down, and hope no one violent notices them or their families.
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