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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Official PS3 Thread (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Official PS3 Thread
Blayne Bradley
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Interestign tidbit, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playstation_3#Linux

Linux and Sony will join forces, life is grand I must say.

I have alot of hope for the PS3, and I believe that ina WCS it'll be like the Xbox in the first round, not as many sales but still sucessful. At worst.

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Samprimary
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Wait for them to iron out the kinks. If you're going to buy one at all, don't be an early adopter.
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Dr Strangelove
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What if I don't want to become a registered member of NYtimes.com?
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Bokonon
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Use bugmenot.

-Bok

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B34N
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I hope it helps bring down the prices of all the new consoles. It's getting rediculous how much these things are costing.

I can't play ST: Legacy or Halo 3 without having to shell out $400 and that's not with the price of the games factored in.

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Sterling
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Hmm. I was able to read the article without registering. Curious.

It was interesting to hear the lauds for the 360 in comparison with the PS3. My limited impression (somewhat echoed by the article) was that one of the PS3's major problems was going to be a lack of must-have titles. Sure, Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy will come up the road, but right now it looks like Resistance: Fall of Man is the only PS3-exclusive that's really impressing people, and even it's been getting some mixed comparisons to the Halo franchise.

If Sony's requiring a firmware update to provide features gamers have come to expect... Uh-oh.

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twinky
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quote:
Originally posted by B34N:
It's getting rediculous how much these things are costing.

I'm not sure they're so far out of line with historical prices, when you consider inflation.
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Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged
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Unless I'm missing something in your link being inline with the video game crash of 1983 video game systems as well as the Sega Saturn and the CDi...not very good company imho.
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Enigmatic
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Last week I mentioned to a co-worker that I'd be trying to get a Wii over thanksgiving weekend (I did, but that doesn't really belong in this thread). He said "Oh, I really want a PS3!"

I was genuinely curious, so I asked "Why?"
He looked befuddled for a moment and then said "It's the superior machine."
"Fair enough," I said, because it does have better graphics processing and I'm not about to argue that. "What games do you want to play on it?"
He just stared blankly at me for 30 seconds or so and then shrugged "Games will come out for it."

Now this particular guy used to sell high-def TVs and is always upgrading his home entertainment system, so I can get the idea that he wants it because it's going to be the graphics powerhouse that fits best with his huge plasma TV and all the mega surround sound he's got set up. But I had to laugh when he was so excited about a game system without any idea what games he would play on it.

So Blayne, I know you want Final Fantasy when it comes out for PS3, and I've known enough FF-Fans to know that's enough to sell the system for most of them. But of the PS3 games that are actually out at launch, is there anything you're interested in playing? If by some miracle you found a PS3 on the shelf today and beat off the crowds and muggers to get it home, what game would you buy? Or would you just plug it in and wait for FF13?

--Enigmatic

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Samprimary
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If the PS3 has a similar problem to other Sony hardware, where downloadable firmware upgrades hose your system if they're interrupted, then I'm gonna laugh so hard.

Also I ain't sure I'm allowed to repost the article in full from a registration-only site, so anyone who is abstaining from the free registration process because of laziness and/or omgz liberal media ideological protest is .. welcome to not read the article?

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Blayne Bradley
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Level 5's White Knight! awesome in a box, CoD3, maybe that fall of man game.

I'm prefectely ok with sya 1 game a consol i only got the GameCube for Smash Bros Melee.

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
Level 5's White Knight! awesome in a box, CoD3, maybe that fall of man game.

I'm prefectely ok with sya 1 game a consol i only got the GameCube for Smash Bros Melee.

I agree White Knight looks interesting.

So will you be getting a Wii to play Smash Bros: Brawl?

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twinky
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quote:
Originally posted by Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged:
Unless I'm missing something in your link being inline with the video game crash of 1983 video game systems as well as the Sega Saturn and the CDi...not very good company imho.

B34N was talking about the Xbox 360, which appears to skirt under the inflation-adjusted retail cost line that approximately separates the successful consoles from the unsuccessful ones.

That is, unless a PS3 version of Halo 3 was announced, and I just missed it somehow. [Wink]

quote:
Originally posted by Enigmatic:
But I had to laugh when he was so excited about a game system without any idea what games he would play on it.

Does he have any interest in either of the high definition optical formats? You'd think if he was just looking for a cheap Blu-ray player he would have mentioned that to you.

Added:

quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
I'm prefectely ok with sya 1 game a consol i only got the GameCube for Smash Bros Melee.

You have to admit that there's a bit of a difference between buying a US$200 (at launch) console to play one game, and buying a US$500 or US$600 console to play one game -- or even two games.
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Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged
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Whoops sorry...misread it...
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twinky
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No worries -- I mean, it's not like he mentioned the 360 by name or anything, and this is the Official PS3 Thread. [Wink]
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Enigmatic
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Is White Knight out at launch? I saw the gameplay clip when it was linked on Penny Arcade, but I was under the impression it wasn't a launch title. And yeah, it does look pretty cool.

I believe CoD3 is available on all 3 systems. But I'm glad there's something out right now that you'd want to play if you manage to find a PS3. [Smile]

--Enigmatic

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BlackBlade
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White Knight is NOT a launch title, but I am not sure when it is slated for release. Ill have to look it up,

Dec 31st 2007 in Japan and TBA in the US.

Looks like its going to be a LOOOOONG wait.

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Blayne Bradley
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So? Worse case scenario I use it as a Linux server, assuming I had the mony to buy it and yes I would buy the Wii for brawl, maybe zelda.
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
So? Worse case scenario I use it as a Linux server, assuming I had the mony to buy it and yes I would buy the Wii for brawl, maybe zelda.

Zelda after about 20 minutes of tutorial becomes a TRUCKLOAD of fun, and it has yet to let up on me.
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Bokonon
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Considering you could probably make a cheaper conventional system out of someone's old Pentium II/III, why pay the 600+ bucks?

And real geeks^H^H^H^H^Hmen use NetBSD. In leiu of that, they install slackware Linux with nothing but an ISO and LILO on a floppy.

-Bok

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Blayne Bradley
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Because a PIII cannot play FFXIII
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Euripides
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Strangelove:

What if I don't want to become a registered member of NYtimes.com?

http://www.bugmenot.com/view/www.nytimes.com [Smile]
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Bokonon
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Hey, I said that! [Smile]

-Bok

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Sterling
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http://ps3.gamespy.com/articles/748/748397p1.html

So, around 200,000 PS3s were sold in North America.

Only 500,000 to 800,000 more are expected by the end of the year.

Sony takes a loss on hardware, expecting to make it back on software.

A game company has to sell 500,000 units worldwide to make a profit on a Playstation 3 title.

...Uh-oh.

I think Sony'd better make sure its relationships with its content providers are sparkling toute suite.

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Lyrhawn
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If they can refine the process they use to make the damned things, they could pump more out than a half million in four months.

It's hard to gauge the popularity of this thing yet. It could very well be (though I doubt it), that it only sold out because of extreme supply issues. We'll know in a year.

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Blayne Bradley
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eery PS3 in Canada (quebec at least) has been sold out on the first day.

Sony'll do fine.

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fugu13
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They would have done that even if they had millions more. They're having serious production shortages, such that they've been forced to lower the PS3 price in Japan by game makers (despite still having insufficient supply -- now they're losing even more money per console).
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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
eery PS3 in Canada (quebec at least) has been sold out on the first day.

Sony'll do fine.

Well, duh.

Personally, I won't bother even thinking about getting one until I get a Hi-Def TV. What's the point otherwise? I mean other than new games and what not, but without an HD TV the graphics matter fairly little, you might as well get a cheaper X-Box or a Wii, where the graphics matter less than the gameplay.

Sony stands to win big in the LONG TERM, when HD TV prices fall more, and average gamers get them and realize why PS3 is so great. But Sony has much, much more immediate problems to deal with. Investors are leary of Sony stock. The gaming and movie divisions are the only one really bring in money, and even the movie division posted a loss in the first two quarters. While I don't think the PS3 will flop, it's a gamble, and it has to payoff big.

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Sterling
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The problem, as I see it, is this:

Sony is taking a loss on the PS3. That may change with increased efficiencies in manufacturing, but it may not.

So, to make up that loss, Sony really needs licensing fees from the companies that make games.

According to a gentleman from Namco, a PS3 title has to sell in the vicinity of 500,000 units to make a profit.

There are presently around 200,000 PS3s in North America (and yes, I know there are more internationally, but then you get into matters of game localization and so forth.) Very few PS3 owners are going to purchase 2.5 copies of the same title.

When more PS3s are added to the market, there will be more people available to purchase those titles. However, that still means you need 50% or more of your market to purchase a game for it to be profitable. Essentially, it's dangerous to publish a game that by most recent standards would be considered moderately successful.

Meanwhile, there's the Wii and the X-Box 360. The latter already has the greater market penetration; the former, not being ultra-HD, requires a lower budget to produce a game.

If I were a game production company, the Microsoft and Nintendo markets would be looking considerably more attractive to me than the ultra-high budget, ultra-high risk PS3 gamer market, especially early on. And without the early innovators jumping on and willingly taking a few in the teeth, the PS3 may come to be seen as a visionary piece of hardware with largely theoretical capabilities. Looks nice on the shelf, hand me the Wii controller.

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Blayne Bradley
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Oh Ill hand the Wii controller.

*throws it at Sterling*

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
Oh Ill hand the Wii controller.

*throws it at Sterling*

Were you trying to play Wii Baseball Blayne? You don't have to actually throw the controller, a good flick of the wrist suffices when pitching [Wink]

Not only that if you are wearing the safety strap as suggested the controller won't go anywhere.

Blayne, the PS3 is obviously suffering from a rushed delivery. It was not ready in time for the holidays and it didn't have a door buster title for fans to pick up. For the Wii there's Zelda, and even the free Wii Sports is tons of fun, and it's the title that is getting people to see why the Wii is so fun to play.

Playstation this time around didn't have a Final Fantasy title really close to release. By all rights the only reason Playstation took off was because of Final Fantasy VII being exclusive to it. PS2 had at least FFX going for it. But what does the PS3 have come launch day or even just around the corner? Almost nothing.

Now Ill give PS3 one thing, if it clears this hurdle it should be in the clear. It really only needs games and folks will see how awesome it really is.

Realize though, if the Wii comes out with killer titles that take advantage of its controller, Microsoft and Sony can't do anything to copy it.

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Zeugma
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Man, I wouldn't want to be a PS3 game developer right now. [Embarrassed]
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Flaming Toad on a Stick
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:

Realize though, if the Wii comes out with killer titles that take advantage of its controller, Microsoft and Sony can't do anything to copy it.

Already been done.

So, in summation, the PS3 is running at a loss right now. They are currently depending on the sale of games, and the emergence of cheaper HDTVs to promote their superior graphics cards. They must also plan on optimizing and reducing the amount of money they spend on making, advertizing and marketing their games, while still promoting them enough to sell them.

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twinky
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Not only that if you are wearing the safety strap as suggested the controller won't go anywhere.

Not necessarily -- they have been known to break. It isn't common, but HDTV owners in particular should be exceedingly careful when playing Wii games. Poke around the site, you'll see plenty of pictures of cracked 40"+ HD displays. Not all of them are due to broken safety straps, but the straps do break occasionally. Nintendo seems to be good about replacing the straps, and the Wiimotes themselves appear to be very durable, but of course Nintendo isn't going to replace your plasma TV. [Razz]

quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
Realize though, if the Wii comes out with killer titles that take advantage of its controller, Microsoft and Sony can't do anything to copy it.

Why not? The core idea -- translating player motion into avatar motion -- has been around at least since the EyeToy on the PS2. It may be that the next round of consoles all have accelerometer-enabled controllers that can sense absolute motion.
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Lyrhawn
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You'd think they'd try and actually sell a HDTV that's fairly cheap then, as opposed to being one of the more expensive models out there.

It's no wonder Sharp and LG are rocking them.

twinky -

I'm willing to be there will be a lot more motion sensitivity to the next round of consoles, but that's what, five years in the future probably? Lots of ground to cover between then and now. Can Sony and Microsoft keep their fancy graphics AND add the absolute control that Nintendo has? And how will they do it? Nintendo BOUGHT the company that had the technology. They'd have to develop their own, or pay Nintendo a licensing fee, which would be worse than not having it at all.

I think the next generation of consoles will be a combination of traditional and motion sensitive.

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Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged
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It's not really a good sign imho that no one on hatrack actually has one. Here we are two weeks after the launch and the silence is deafening. There are happy smiling people waving hands in the Wii thread, they seem to be having fun. Where are the PS3 owners?
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Blayne Bradley
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i cant afford the money for any of the three systems.
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BlackBlade
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Lyrhawn: Thats pretty much what I mean.

I agree that the next gen consoles will be a combination of closer motion capture controllers and even better CPUs.

It will be interesting if Nintendo capitalizes on its Wii market and milks it for all its worth. If executed properly I see them standing to release another console in 5 years somewhere in the tune of 350-400 bucks with both comparable graphics to whatever Mircrosoft and Sony put out in addition to whatever innovative peripherals they include in the console. Nintendo has said its going in another direction, and I think it guessed right as to the path it took, tons of fans are coming out of the woodwork to see what the Wii is all about.

I'm pretty certain right now the guys in Nintendo's marketing dept are giving each other back rubs and high fives everyday. It just remains to be seen if Nintendo can keep up the momentum.

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Samprimary
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A gaming lounge opened up in town. You can go in, drink coffee, and play computer games on large HDTV sets -- they couldn't survey enough interest in the PS3 so they didn't bother to purchase any, but the Wii has been a mega hit.
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Lyrhawn
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BB -

Nintendo doesn't have to do anything but sit back and make more Wiis. They get free marketing now, between news outlets and word of mouth. But that's what is more important anyway. Word of mouth can make or break a product, and that's what they're doing right now.

I think their next big decision is what's next? Get a hardcore chip for their next system and pump up the graphics? They're certainly going to be around for the next generation, and they'll have the money, and quite frankly, they'll have saved a ton too, as the next gen, millions more people will actually have HDTVs. Tons of options for Nintendo.

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
BB -

Nintendo doesn't have to do anything but sit back and make more Wiis. They get free marketing now, between news outlets and word of mouth. But that's what is more important anyway. Word of mouth can make or break a product, and that's what they're doing right now.

I think their next big decision is what's next? Get a hardcore chip for their next system and pump up the graphics? They're certainly going to be around for the next generation, and they'll have the money, and quite frankly, they'll have saved a ton too, as the next gen, millions more people will actually have HDTVs. Tons of options for Nintendo.

Right, but I think I see Nintendo pumping up its consoles power in the future as well as continuing to research how to better immerse gamers into their games. I don't think that will be their sole emphasis. I still hope they continue to think of ways to make games more innovative.
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Sterling
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
Oh Ill hand the Wii controller.

*throws it at Sterling*

*Ow!*

Good thing big N made that thing relatively small. [Smile]

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twinky
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
I'm willing to be there will be a lot more motion sensitivity to the next round of consoles, but that's what, five years in the future probably? Lots of ground to cover between then and now.

Sure. I just think the extent and longevity of the Wii's success will determine a lot of things about the future of the industry.

quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
Can Sony and Microsoft keep their fancy graphics AND add the absolute control that Nintendo has?

Yes. The two are not mutually exclusive.

quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
And how will they do it? Nintendo BOUGHT the company that had the technology. They'd have to develop their own, or pay Nintendo a licensing fee, which would be worse than not having it at all.

The Wiimote contains accelerometers and an IR sensor to ping off the two IR emitters in the Wii sensor bar. Nintendo doesn't have a monopoly on either of those things, as evidenced by the fact that the PS3 controller contains accelerometers as well. What it doesn't have is IR sensors, so unlike the Wiimote, the "SIXAXIS" can only detect relative motion. The PS3 actually doesn't have an IR port at all.

However, there's absolutely no reason why Sony or Microsoft couldn't release a controller with accelerometers and IR sensors with future consoles, or even with adaptors for current consoles.

quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
I think the next generation of consoles will be a combination of traditional and motion sensitive.

I agree, provided the Wii is a big success.
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Lyrhawn
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quote:
Yes. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I know, I guess what I'm really asking is what would that do to the price point? PS3s are so expensive because of the blu-ray disc, and Xboxes are still pretty pricey without the HDDVD accessory that is being sold with it. But the next round won't be like that.

The next round will have to have an integrated HDDVD player, if for no other reason than the big fancy graphics will mean four or five discs per game for some of the more graphics heavy titles if they use the old discs. Developers and gamers are already leery of the idea of games being released on old discs AND HDDVD simultaneously. Integration will jump the cost of the next Xbox, as it has with the PS3. Sure, they are still taking a loss, and sure they'll make that money back from game sales...but we've yet to see what high cost systems do to the market. Part of the reason Nintendo decided to forgo the fancy graphics was cost. Developing them would have been expensive and the system would have been as well, so they went for a cheaper, gameplay oriented system.

If they decide to go the way of fancy graphics, chances are they'll either have to adopt Microsoft or Sony's disc system, or go old school and release four disc games with ripper graphics and total motion sensitivity control (or develop some third disc playing apparatus), which will appear old fashioned and annoying next to PS4 and Xbox 720's advances, especially since I have to believe Sony will find a way to lower the production cost of the blu-ray player in it's next console, same with Microsoft.

I don't think it's a question we can answer for another year, we have to see how sales do at the current price, once production meets demand, and that will tell us if this price is sustainable, and if it is, then there'll be little problem integrating Nintendo's play style with Sony style advanced graphics.

My concerns are less technical feasibility, and more marketing.

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Marlozhan
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If Sony can significantly reduce the price of blu-ray technology, then having one-disc games would be nice. But as it stands right now, I would choose a 4-disc game for a much cheaper system than dish out hundreds more for the console, as well as the more expensive software, just to reduce the number of discs.

And my guess is that the gaming crowd that gets into the Wii (which now includes a lot of virgin gamers) would be more concerned with cost and practicality over convenience and high-end technology. The people that would be willing to buy a PS3 for superior graphics are the ones willing to pay more to have less discs. The people wanting to have more fun and save money are playing the Wii, and they won't care if they have to load another disc into their system every couple days when playing. And as it stands right now, it seems the Wii-crowd is winning out (though that would be better to judge if the PS3 could produce an equal number of units).

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twinky
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyrhawn:
The next round will have to have an integrated HDDVD player, if for no other reason than the big fancy graphics will mean four or five discs per game for some of the more graphics heavy titles if they use the old discs.

Actually, I don't think this is necessarily going to be the case. Recent real-world applications of procedural texturing look extremely promising (and, while we're on the subject, pretty fracking cool [Big Grin] ).

We may be able to stick with double or triple-layered DVDs until game consoles can handle full digital distribution.

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Lyrhawn
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Ooh, that's impressive stuff, and it looks like Xbox game producers are already taking advantage of it, which should be a boon to gamers.

Remains to be seen what will happen in the next round, but this is a good sign to keep cost down and reduce annoying disc changes.

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BlackBlade
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Very interesting Twinky!

Marlozhan: It would be easier to judge as well if the PS3 actually had a single interesting game since launch.

Right now its a $600 paperweight that can play DVD's and can now run linux.

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Altáriël of Dorthonion
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I would never feel good knowing that I have spent $600 on a piece of entertainment. It's a GAME SYSTEM for crying out loud! That's the main reason that I will not buy a PS3.
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Fusiachi
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Well, looks like some kid might be [URL=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200055757245[/URL] courtesy of the PS3.

Hopefully some rich benefactor comes through.

Actually, I don't care. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

[ December 05, 2006, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: Fusiachi ]

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