posted
Hot on the heels of Michael Richards's incident comes a similar one from Rosie O'Donnell:
quote:Rosie O'Donnell says she's sorry for mocking spoken Chinese on "The View," but an association that represents journalists from diverse ethnic and racial backgrounds, including Chinese American, says it wasn't enough.
In a Dec. 5 segment, O'Donnell joked about how Danny DeVito's recent — and seemingly drunken — appearance on the ABC daytime talk show had become international news.
"You know, you can imagine in China it's like `ching chong, ching chong chong, Danny DeVito, ching chong chong chong, drunk, "The View," ching chong,'" the 44-year-old comedian said.
On Thursday's show, she told the audience: "To say ching chong to someone is very offensive, and some Asian people have told me it's as bad as the n-word. Which I was like, `Really? I didn't know that.'"
Karen Lincoln Michel, president-elect of Unity: Journalists of Color Inc., said O'Donnell's remarks "really didn't sound like an apology to me."
Lincoln Michel said Unity was waiting for Barbara Walters, who created the show, to respond to a letter asking her to publicly acknowledge that O'Donnell's remarks were "patently offensive."
"I think by allowing Rosie O'Donnell's cheap jabs at Chinese Americans to go unchecked, then the network is essentially condoning racial and ethnic slurs," Lincoln Michel told the AP in a phone interview.
Unity said it represents more than 10,000 journalists nationwide.
"You know it was never (my) intent to mock," O'Donnell said on Thursday's show, "and I'm sorry for those people who felt hurt or were teased on the playground."
"But I'm also gonna give you a fair warning that there's a good chance I'll do something like that again, probably in the next week — not on purpose. Only 'cause it's how my brain works."
O'Donnell characterized her accent as "Chinese, Asian, pseudo-Japanese, sounded a little Yiddish ..."
I can accept her statement that she didn't know how offensive her joke was to Chinese Americans, though it seems to me that anyone should know that when you mock the speaking style of an ethnic group other than your own you're asking for trouble.
But you don't apologize for even an unintentional racist remark by comparing it to being "teased on the playground" and joking that you'll probably do something similar again. And why does she need to say, "you know it was never my intent to mock," as if the people offended are guilty of taking the incident too seriously? At least Michael Richards put up the appearance of sincerity in his apology.
Posts: 781 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
It was a dumb comment to make and its unfortunate that THAT is her definition of an apology. Perhaps she didn't think one was in order and simply excused herself, I dunno.
I must confess I have never EVER heard a Chinese person say, "ching ching chong is like the N word for me." But admittedly I grew up amongst the Chinese not amongst the Chinese Americans. But I can see how jokes like that would be really tiresome and insulting, especially with how lumped together Asians are by other Americans.
If Ms O'Donnell wanted to refine her standard "Chinese news" sound I could probably give her some pointers. Even refine it towards Cantonese which sounds much more vulgar and funny then mandarin to my ears.
Then again would anybody have laughed if something big happened in China and she had said,
"You can imagine its like in America, "Earlier today a noted Chinese actor WAAANG CHUUNG was found at the Mang Shang bridge..." Nobody wants to laugh at how badly Americans butcher Chinese, why should we laugh at the Chinese who interpose English because there is no Chinese word for Danny De Vito?
posted
I am so tired of everyone caring about stupid stuff like this (not referring to Omega M.). Just change the channel and maybe throw out your copy of A League of Their Own.
And why is it okay to make fun of your own ethnicity/culture? Either it's wrong to make fun of ethnicity/culture or it is not. If it's funny (like Carlos Mencia, who makes fun of EVERYONE) then it's funny, choose not to be offended and get in a good chuckle. If it's not funny, don't listen, don't watch, don't talk about, don't fuel the fire, don't make a big deal about, just change the channel and think to yourself, "Wow, that Rosey isn't funny!"
posted
I agree. She should have said, "I feel like an idiot. I had no idea that was offensive, and I'm really sorry. If there's a silver lining, it's that many other people probably didn't realize that it's offensive, and now they will. Again, I'm sorry I said that, and thank you for letting me know."
That, I would have respected.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I've done the same thing in talking about Telemundo. That is, if I'm tired and not concentrating on it, it sounds like "blah blah blah blah blah Coke a cola. Blah blah blah blah."
I don't think this should be classified as racist. Insensitive perhaps, but calling it racist seems way overboard to me.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
In Korea the their mock English equivalent of "ching ching chong chong" is "shilly shilly shally shally."
Because we took the bus so much on my LDS mission, my companion and I would often have deep meaning conversations for everyone to hear.
Me: "Shilly shilly shally." Him: "Shally shilly shilly shally?" Me: "Shilly shilly shally shilly!" Him: "Ohhhhh....Shally shally shally. *nods *continued is similar vain for 10-15 minutes.
Little kids loved it. They would just watch with fascinated eyes. Adults would try to listen in and always looked really confused. hehe
Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Stone_Wolf_: I am so tired of everyone caring about stupid stuff like this (not referring to Omega M.). Just change the channel and maybe throw out your copy of A League of Their Own.
And why is it okay to make fun of your own ethnicity/culture? Either it's wrong to make fun of ethnicity/culture or it is not. If it's funny (like Carlos Mencia, who makes fun of EVERYONE) then it's funny, choose not to be offended and get in a good chuckle. If it's not funny, don't listen, don't watch, don't talk about, don't fuel the fire, don't make a big deal about, just change the channel and think to yourself, "Wow, that Rosey isn't funny!"
[/rant]
Of course it's okay to make fun of your own ethnicity/culture/race. I don't get what that's even an issue. Funny is funny. The only reason it's wrong to make fun of others is that it's so often part of a general pattern of oppression.
One summer when I was on staff at a Jewish summer camp in Wisconsin, we were sitting around the staff lounge and started telling Jewish jokes. We went about 2 hours, I think, starting with fairly innocuous ones, and getting into really nasty and horrifying ones (even Holocaust ones). I mean, jokes that would have shocked Mel Gibson.
Along the way, people kept coming into the lounge and going out, and people who found it distasteful didn't hang around, but a lot of people stayed. It was actually cathartic, in a way.
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posted
I find Carlos Mencia offensive, and I'm not even a minority.
Then again, I find almost all comedy offensive. Too much of it seems to rely on saying the most outrageous thing you can think of, and hoping people will laugh because it's so unexpected.
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posted
I find carlos offensive and hysterical. When what he says bothers me, I just choke it back because I laugh at the other stuff he says.
Very similar to south park.
And honestly, if we ditch this kind of humor we're left with stuff that's not funny. Think about all the Embarassment humor movies and Spy Hard type movies that have been out in recent.. well, decades... Most of them just aren't funny and the Embarassment motif is just painful.
Anyway, the reason it's ok to make fun of your own race and not others is because if you're making fun of yourself we *know* there's no hatred there. If a white person makes fun of black people, or vice versa, the presumption of racism favors the offended.
Carlos immunizes himself from this by picking on latinos more than anyone else. Much like Dave Chapell picked on Black people as much as (more than) whites.
posted
I don't really understand what the confusion is about.
Rosie O'Donnell made a racist comment, and then said:
quote:"But I'm also gonna give you a fair warning that there's a good chance I'll do something like that again, probably in the next week — not on purpose. Only 'cause it's how my brain works."
So basically, she made a racist comment, and is admitting she's a racist and will continue being a racist.
So...let's write her off as a racist. Case closed. There was nothing about her attitude or words that was even remotely apologetic.
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posted
Part of the problem is that there is no evidence that she is a racist. It really doesn't seem as if she were trying to offend and we've no evidence that she has any racist attitudes. She said something in a way that some people don't like. That doesn't make her a racist.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: I've done the same thing in talking about Telemundo. That is, if I'm tired and not concentrating on it, it sounds like "blah blah blah blah blah Coke a cola. Blah blah blah blah."
I don't think this should be classified as racist. Insensitive perhaps, but calling it racist seems way overboard to me.
The difference is that "blah blah blah" is not historically (and presently) associated with racist attitudes toward not only Chinese, but all asians.
Do you really not understand how this is racist?
I've had people (not many, but this has happened more than once) that I didn't know whose only interaction with me is to stare at me and say "ching ching chong ching chong wang chong ching!" (I'm Japanese American).
If you think that's the equivilant of going "blah blah blah," well, then you're a racist too, bud.
Also, the difference between racial insensitivity and racism is like the one between punching a stranger in the face and shooting him in the foot: one of degree, not kind.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I kind of wish people would not do that in the first place. I was talking about being happy about being able to read the Japanese printed on the Boston Globe while talking about the new team member for the Red Sox with the cabdriver did that. It erks me and I'm not even chinese or Japanese, it just BUGS me. Especially when I know that Chinese or Japanese doesn't even sound like that! Also, how immature is it to do that to someone because they're Asian? *Extra sensitive towards prejudice towards Asians for some reason I can't figure out*
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Because some people use it in a racist way does not make it racist. I see no indication that Rosie O'Donnell intended this in any sort of racist way. It seems like from her perspective, what she was saying - though it definitely carries other implications - was pretty much equivilent to the "blah blah blah" thing.
quote:Also, the difference between racial insensitivity and racism is like the one between punching a stranger in the face and shooting him in the foot: one of degree, not kind.
You think actively hate and trying to hurt people of a specific race is different only in degree from not being completely aware of the things that may offend some people?
If disagreeing with that makes me a racist, I guess that's what I am.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:You think actively hate and trying to hurt people of a specific race is different only in degree from not being completely aware of the things that may offend some people?
No, I think acting in an inadverdantly racist fashion and then, once it has been called to your attention, being unapologetic and offering the disclaimer that you will do it again because that's 'the way you are' makes you a racist.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I think it's hard for people to see it as racist because people generally don't see Chinese people as a minority. Not in the way we see African Americans or Latinos. So to everyone who isn't Asian, they see it as though Rosie were making fun of the French language, or a British accent, or something. Whereas to the people who are Asian, they are aware they're in the minority, so they see it as racist.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Mostly it makes her a bit insensitive to just how annoying that is to a lot of people, including me, but I tend to hate most ethnic jokes or people who immitate gay men by letting their arms go limp... It pisses me off throroughly, but i still laugh at a lot of stuff on South Park. (Though I did get irked over the skronky natives in the Amazon episode, and there are some episodes of theirs that make me think, that was a rather lame joke, but I can see what it's trying to do.) Perhaps more people should take the time to realize that what they think is an innocent joke or remark is really obnoxious to another person. It just seems like non-white people have to put up with this sort of thing all the time. (If this has been done to me, I don't even notice it)
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quote:No, I think acting in an inadverdantly racist fashion and then, once it has been called to your attention, being unapologetic and offering the disclaimer that you will do it again because that's 'the way you are' makes you a racist.
I don't think disagreeing about what constitutes a racist statement necessarily makes you a racist.
I think it's much more likely she heard the outcry, but disagrees that what she said was racist and therefore sees no reason to change her behavior. Which, in my book, makes her inconsiderate and insensitive; not racist.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: I agree. She should have said, "I feel like an idiot. I had no idea that was offensive, and I'm really sorry. If there's a silver lining, it's that many other people probably didn't realize that it's offensive, and now they will. Again, I'm sorry I said that, and thank you for letting me know."
That, I would have respected.
Just chiming in to say that I think this would have been a brilliant apology. Too bad Lisa's not on her staff.
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
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posted
As I see it, she wasn't making fun of the Chinese language. The ching chong ching was filler words for the words we don't understand in much the same way as my Telemundo example.
quote:I think acting in an inadverdantly racist fashion
I'm not sure you can act in an inadvertantly racist fashion. It seems clear she meant neither harm nor offense. From my view, she said that in the future, she may again express herself in ways that get people upset, in large part because she's not thinking about it, but she is again not going to mean any harm or offense. I really doubt she'll use the ching chong ching thing again. She didn't do anything wrong, and though it is possible her actiosn caused some small harm, she apologized for that. You seem to want her to say that she did something wrong.
So, what is the problem here, really? To me, it looks like people falling over themselves to portray themselves as victims of an innocent occurance. I'm very concerned about racism, but I think making a big deal a bout things like this hurts this cause rather than helps it.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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quote:I think it's much more likely she heard the outcry, but disagrees that what she said was racist and therefore sees no reason to change her behavior.
I don't see that last part as necessarily true. Like I said, it seems likely to me that now that she knows that it offends people, Ms. O'Donnell is unlikely to using ching chong ching again.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
See if she had taken out the "Ching Ching Chong" nonsense and actually said something in Chinese with the English interposition it would have sounded just as funny, because it IS funny to hear English in the middle of all that foreign sounding diction. Not only that, her humor would have been ALOT more refined as she actually took the time to learn how to imitate the language.
Look for those who didn't find it offensive that's fine, I'm not calling you a racist, I have the precarious dilemma of having grown up in China and yet I am not Chinese. Can I laugh at Chinese jokes?
Man I don't even know what my opinion is on this matter. Chinese people refer to Americans as "big nose" in Taiwan, and without any shame. They pinch their noses so their eyes look like ours, and they say Americans eat hamburgers and fries and thats about it. All without any sense of shame.
I dunno it just seemed Rosie was laughing at something that could be legitimately funny, but her complete ignorance on the Chinese culture kind of demonstrates no license to do so.
People compare it to Mencia, but does he make fun of things he has no idea about?
I dunno if you have seen the movie, "Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story." They shows a scene where he and his girlfriend go out to the movies and see "Breakfast at Tiffany's" They show how in the movie within the movie there is a Chinese person in the movie and they basically make fun of him using stereotypes that are not accurate. They end up walking out of the movie and I can't say I blamed them, I already thought the movie sounded stupid, now I really don't ever want to see it.
I guess its a question of who your audience is. If I am around a bunch of expats we make fun of all the cultures we have lived amongst and just as often make fun of Americans who don't know what they are talking about in regards to other countries. If I was on a nationally broadcast show with an international audience, I wouldn't use such humor. If I was Mencia and my show caters to the ethnic humor crowd, go nuts.
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posted
But, again, from what I can tell, this wasn't meant to be ethnically directed humor. In it's intent, it seems that the ching chong ching was meant in prety much the same way as the blah blah blah's (which I give a mexican accent to) in my example.
The joke is on the experience of everything blurring together and you being unable to understand anything except for the one little bit in English. Using actual, differentiated Chinese words would have killed the humor there.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
He was supposed to be Japanese played by Mickey Rooney. It annoyed the heck out of me about that movie. Perhaps people of other races are a bit sensitive about these things, but white people really never have to think about their whiteness until they're in China or Japan or Africa or some other place where they are the minority. They'd think, "It's just an innocent remark, some humour, why get offended?" But people who are not white have to put up with that sort of casual unconcious (Sp) racism all of the time. Perhaps they need to have this pointed out to them sometimes. People really get tired of that sort of thing... Especially Asian Americans who get that just for walking around looking Asian...
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posted
I guess I should desist from saying (as I have in the past) that Russian sounds like people talking backwards. Nyet Culturnya!
Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
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quote:No, I think acting in an inadverdantly racist fashion and then, once it has been called to your attention, being unapologetic and offering the disclaimer that you will do it again because that's 'the way you are' makes you a racist.
I don't think disagreeing about what constitutes a racist statement necessarily makes you a racist.
I think it's much more likely she heard the outcry, but disagrees that what she said was racist and therefore sees no reason to change her behavior. Which, in my book, makes her inconsiderate and insensitive; not racist.
I used to play Everquest II with a kid from Texas who was really bothered by the stereotype that all Texans are redneck, gun-toting racists. He explained that there are a lot of black people in Texas, and that for the most part blacks and whites get along. I was listening intently, because the kid sounded sincere (to explain, we were on Teamspeak, so I could actually HEAR him).
He explained that he doesn't even use the "n-word" jokingly, because it's so racist. I was impressed. Then he clarified that "the lazy, no-good blacks are a different story. Those're niggers. You know the kind I'm talking about."
I tried to explain to him that that was a pretty offensive and racist thing to say, and he was appalled that I thought so. He sincerely believed that he was not at all being racist.
Do you think he was being a racist? Or just insensitive?
Because honestly, if you really believe there's a distinction there, you're operating in a totally different universe than I am.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Mr S: Guess we will have to disagree, I would have found it quite funny if she had used real Chinese.
Is Chinese really funny because it all sounds the same (because it really doesn't) or because it sounds so strange and different?
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: As I see it, she wasn't making fun of the Chinese language. The ching chong ching was filler words for the words we don't understand in much the same way as my Telemundo example.
quote:I think acting in an inadverdantly racist fashion
I'm not sure you can act in an inadvertantly racist fashion. It seems clear she meant neither harm nor offense. From my view, she said that in the future, she may again express herself in ways that get people upset, in large part because she's not thinking about it, but she is again not going to mean any harm or offense. I really doubt she'll use the ching chong ching thing again. She didn't do anything wrong, and though it is possible her actiosn caused some small harm, she apologized for that. You seem to want her to say that she did something wrong.
So, what is the problem here, really? To me, it looks like people falling over themselves to portray themselves as victims of an innocent occurance. I'm very concerned about racism, but I think making a big deal a bout things like this hurts this cause rather than helps it.
Squick, I really have no problem with you outside of this, but I'm going to leave this thread now, because it's apparent to me you're as unaware of your racist attitude as Rosie is, and I'm just going to keep getting angrier and angrier with you without a purpose, because you obviously don't understand what about your attitude is so infuriating.
posted
bb: When I first started watching Anime (Yes, I know, japanese and chinese are as different as english and russian) to my untrained Arkansan ears, japanese sounded... well.. this is awful, but it's the most accurate description... like "monkey talk". Especially when they were angry. My brain couldn't parse the sounds so it really sounded like screeching.
Now I can't even conceive of hearing Japanese like that. Yeah, I still can't understand it very well but at least I can break the sounds apart and assemilate them and now I *hear* it and I realize what a beautiful language it is. I LOVE the sound of Japanese.
I think "ching chong" is what chinese sounds like to untrained english ears. Even I frequently hear it like that and I've worked with chinese people for years.
As for "Is Rosey Racist?" I have no idea... There's prolly some racism in there somewhere. I doubt she's maliciously racist.
erso: I've heard the "there's black people and then there's N-words" idea before. I'm not sure what I think about it because if I heard "There's gay people and then there's fags/rugmunchers" I would be upset but if I heard "There's women and then there's sluts/bitchs" I wouldn't be.
(thinking outloud) maybe it's the idea that such a bad word has been used too often to describe an entire set of people is what makes it wrong even if you are only using the word to describe a small number of "bad apples"
posted
Thing is, she didn't make a racist comment. She made a linguistic comment. The Chinese language is not a race.
Now, Rosie was offended because somebody didn't want to shake hands with people in the audience during cold and flu season; she called that comment "homophobic." No, I don't get it either. So it's apparent her offensitivity is highly selective.
Posts: 1877 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I'd like to point that just a few weeks ago Rosie tore into Kelly Ripa for what Rosie considered a homophobic remark towards Clay Aiken. Why is it OK for Rosie to not only make racist remarks, even if unintentionally, but state that she will probably keep doing it, but no one can make homophobic comments? To me, she sounds a bit hypocritical.
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posted
Pix: Completely with you on the Japanese point. At first it sounded like funny gibberish to me but now I LOVE the way it sounds.
But when it comes to cantonese, I've heard if for years and it just does not sound good to me. The only reason I want to hear it is because it is nostalgic to me of my days in Hong Kong. Kinda like how I love the tar smell of freshly laid road because it reminds me of home, but I would never pretend that people should learn to appreciate the smell on its own merits.
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posted
That's exactly what I was thinking, gator. She got all defensive for that issue and glosses over this one.
That said, I think the whole culture of "getting offended" is overblown. When people say/do offensive things, it's your choice how you react to it. You can choose to demand an apology, or take the higher ground and blow it off.
That's my opeenion.
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quote:I think it's much more likely she heard the outcry, but disagrees that what she said was racist and therefore sees no reason to change her behavior.
I don't see that last part as necessarily true. Like I said, it seems likely to me that now that she knows that it offends people, Ms. O'Donnell is unlikely to using ching chong ching again.
I think you're probably right. But her reaction was singularly ungracious. I mean, hell, if you did something, completely innocently (which I think was the case here, btw) that you found out was really offensive to a whole group of people, would you say, "Oh, oops. But you know, I'll probably do the same kind of thing again, and soon". Or would you say, "Oh, sh**. I didn't realize that was offensive. Sorry."
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I find it odd...well, on second thought, I don't find it odd at all that it was a group of JOURNALIST who protested. Too much of what passes for journalism today is creating controversy where none really exists.
You know back in the good old days, there was a Swedish Chef on the Muppet Show who only spoke in mock-Swedish, and the funny thing is, lots of people laugh, and I don't remember the American Swedish Institute being up in arms. In fact, I suspect they laughed along with the rest of us.
Speaking in mock languges is an old comedic trick and more than anything it is making fun of the American far more that the respresented mock language. There is, in fact, one comedian who speak in many many mock languages and captures the tone and inflection of the various world languages to perfection, even though he never utters a coherent word.
I see Rosie as now living the very point she was making. She was commenting that Danny DeVito's inconsequental and insignificant appearance on The View had now been blown up into international news by journalists eager to create controversy where none exists in order to boast ratings and sell ad space.
Her comments had nothing to do with China or the Chinese people. They had to do with an insignificant story being so blown out of proportion that even people in remote parts of the world were talking about it. She simply used China as an example of a remote distant place were little Western news was likely exist. The 'ching chong' was the least of her statement, and by using 'ching chong' she comically exaggerated her own lack of knowledge of that language.
Keep in mind that I have heard lots of comedians speak in mock languages as a joke. I've heard Jay Leno speak in mock-French, essentually using vocalizations that he associated with the French. I didn't hear the French up in arms over that.
This is a complete non-story that doesn't even deserve a second of air time or printer's ink. This is hack journalist desperate to fill air time with any controversy they can fabricate. Children are being slaughtered in Africa, the Middle East is in a perpetual state of irrational hysteria, Russia is assasinating people in foreign countries, people are starving, irrational power-mad fanatics are killing people every where, and the best news we can come up with is Rosie spoke mock-Chinese while making both a joke and a valid point.
Really people, are we that sad? Have we really fallen that far?
It was a joke, get over it. Better yet, spend your energy doing something about the real atrocities that exist in the world, and quit wasting our time.
quote:Originally posted by Will B: Thing is, she didn't make a racist comment. She made a linguistic comment. The Chinese language is not a race.
It was racist/culturist/stereotyping/bigoted, or would have been had she known.
When people use "Jew" as an adjective ("a Jew banker", for example), or even worse, as a verb, I tell them straight out that it's an anti-semitic way of talking. Now... if I find out that the person honestly didn't know that (which is possible) and doesn't do it again, I don't think that person counts as an anti-semite. If they were to say, "Who knew? I'll probably do something like that again next week", I'll think they're obnoxious, but still not an anti-semite, because they didn't say they were going to do that again -- they at least recognized that it was offensive, even if they were kind of rude about their response. If, on the other hand, they say, "Get over it", then yes, they're an anti-semite.
Rosie is not a racist. She said something that would definitely be racist/culturist/etc-ist if she knew it was offensive, and I think it's pretty clear she's not going to do it again. But she was obnoxious in the way she responded to it. I guarantee you she wouldn't have been so blase about it had someone else innocently used a slur against lesbians.
Posts: 12266 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: Look for those who didn't find it offensive that's fine, I'm not calling you a racist, I have the precarious dilemma of having grown up in China and yet I am not Chinese. Can I laugh at Chinese jokes?
Man I don't even know what my opinion is on this matter. Chinese people refer to Americans as "big nose" in Taiwan, and without any shame. They pinch their noses so their eyes look like ours, and they say Americans eat hamburgers and fries and thats about it. All without any sense of shame.
I dunno it just seemed Rosie was laughing at something that could be legitimately funny, but her complete ignorance on the Chinese culture kind of demonstrates no license to do so.
My attitude would probably be similar to yours although maybe more laid back. For the record, my background is Chinese-Canadian, so I had the reverse experience, growing up in Canada in a predominantly white area while being ethnically Chinese.
To be honest, the whole 'Chong Qing' thing sounds more like ignorance and insensitivity than true racism. I mean there was no intent to offend and no real racial meaning. When compared to stuff like the use of racial profiling against Middle-Easterners, concentration camps for the Japanese during WWII, the continued existence of KKK-like groups in the American south, and the dismissal of that Chinese scientist from Los Alamos labs simply for being Chinese... this is so far down the list of legitimate offences in the US, that it almost seems to demean the legitimate offences.
For the record, being Cantonese, I might note that the predominant term for white people is "Gwai Lo" which essentially means ghost-people. It would probably take me some time just to *think* about using another term. Then again, they never even renamed Hong Kong despite the fact that it essentially means "fragrant harbour" due to the smell of all the drugs that the British smuggled into China.
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If we are ever to accept each other as brothers and sisters of the human race we need to just let stupid sh*t like this go. We are different, as individuals, as groups. We will always be different, as individuals and as groups.
But we are also the same, as individuals and as groups. We all need love, and food, and search desparatly for happiness.
The rest is just not important.
There are places in the world and times in history where people were killed, enslaved, disenfranchized, paid less, beaten in the streets, treated with utter disrespect, etc.
A celebrity making a bad joke on a talk show is not that.
The more we focus on how much we are hurting each other, the more we insist on being victoms, the further away from unity and harmony we move.
It was just a stupid joke.
Part of what makes Carlos Mencia funny is that he makes fun of everything that he feels deserves to be made fun of. He treates everyone the same.
We are all just human beings trying to make it.
Posts: 6683 | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
In a temporary lapse, I find myself posting again in this thread.
quote:Thing is, she didn't make a racist comment. She made a linguistic comment. The Chinese language is not a race.
No, it's not a linguistic comment - the use of "ching ching chong" and similar monosyllables to refer to the Chinese (or any asian) language is too closely tied with racism in US history for it to simply be a matter of linguistics, any more than a person saying "black people look like monkeys!" could be a comment on the bone structure and anthropological history of blacks.
quote:You know back in the good old days, there was a Swedish Chef on the Muppet Show who only spoke in mock-Swedish, and the funny thing is, lots of people laugh, and I don't remember the American Swedish Institute being up in arms. In fact, I suspect they laughed along with the rest of us.
Again - perhaps if the Swedes had been openly discriminated against by most of the nation in recent history through mocking the way their language sounds, this might be a relevant example.
Instead, it isn't.
quote:This is a complete non-story that doesn't even deserve a second of air time or printer's ink.
I know you aren't directing this specifically at me, but I wholeheartedly agree - hence my first post in this thread. What I take issue with is people trying to say that what she said isn't racist. Yes, it is racist. It's racist, and mildly offensive, and we can move on. But the continued insistence that this isn't racist is what really bothers me.
Lisa summed it up well here:
quote:I mean, hell, if you did something, completely innocently (which I think was the case here, btw) that you found out was really offensive to a whole group of people, would you say, "Oh, oops. But you know, I'll probably do the same kind of thing again, and soon". Or would you say, "Oh, sh**. I didn't realize that was offensive. Sorry."
If she were apologetic, I'd be willing to believe it wasn't a racist comment, just an ignorant mistake.
quote:It was a joke, get over it. Better yet, spend your energy doing something about the real atrocities that exist in the world, and quit wasting our time.
Pot, kettle - have you two met?
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Mucus: lol Even without the drugs Hong Kong's harbor is so polluted that its name is still misleading. If you are in Hong Kong its not uncommon to get the common phrase, "Qi Sing" attached to the "Guai Lo." "Crazy White Ghost."
Depending on how its said it can be a term of endearment or a vicious label.
I guess I can't help but think Rosie got her joke from something like "How do Chinese people name their children? Throw change into a pot, CHING CHING CHANG!"
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Will B: It was not racist, unless you're using "racist" to mean something unrelated to race, such as "bad." But we already have a word for "bad."
What it was, was offensive. Terms matter.
Yes, they do.
Racist. Period. No more, no less.
Posts: 4313 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
Will B: I don't believe that what Rosie said amounts to actual racism, but not for a stupid reason like semantics. The fact is that the popular definition of racism relates to ethnic groups, not necessarily one of the "races". Thats why people use the term racism for prejudice against Middle-Easterners, or Hispanics, or FOBs, even though none of them are real "races".
As for this issue, the fact is that the vast majority of people that speak Chinese *are* ethnically Chinese, so you can't get away from the popular belief that a prejudiced attitude toward the Chinese language is racist anymore than a bigoted joke towards Hebrew would get you in hot water as an anti-semite.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Okay, I'm going to try one more post and then I'm leaving this thread.
erosomniac: So the comments were racest...so what? What harm did it cause? BlueWizard has pointed out that making fun of other languages is a common humor tactic. Many comics make fun of culteral differences.
So, an actress made a racest joke on tv. So what?
Posts: 6683 | Registered: Jun 2005
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