posted
I know there really isn't anything people over the internet can do about this, but I love this community and I just needed to share my situation.
I'm nearly 19 years old and for over a year I've been with the most wonderful person I've ever met. It has become apparent over the past several months however that my girlfriend (almost 17 and living with her parents) has suffered a lot emotionally. And it's because of her family. Being my age, I know a lot of us teenagers tend to go through hormonal depressions and such, and get in huge fights with our parents. But I and my own friends and family agree that there is abuse going on here.
Her parents do not get along well, and they are constantly dealing with their son who has ADHD; as a result, my SO is expected to be perfect, and so the entire weight of this broken family weighs on her shoulders. When her brother is misbehaved, her parents take it out on her. When her mom and dad fight, they use her as a verbal punching bag. (as far as I know, she has suffered no physical abuse)
Just today her mother said these words to her: "You should _____ing hate yourself. As soon you're 17, you'd better get the ____ out of here. And you'll be getting a bill for T.C." (T.C. is her pony that they have been paying for until now...it's going to be put to sleep if my girlfriend cannot find a job and support the horse.)
I'm originally from Illinois, but I am currently at college in NY. I'll be going home for the holidays, but the way things are, I'm not sure she'll even be allowed to see me. I try to do whatever I can for this lady that I love, to reassure her that things will get better. But she is so hurt. Her family attended a few therapy support groups, but my girlfriend says that all it did was make her parents feel more right...and make her feel like things will never get better.
This isn't right. I don't think either of us is crazy, and that there has to be something in this land of the free that protects people from this. It's taken me a while to convince everyone that she's not just experiencing typical teenage woes. When she herself broke down in front of my parents and told them things she hadn't even revealed to me, I think they finally understood. But they're not sure what to do either. They're more concerned about me getting my grades up in college.
Anyway *sigh* Where we live the law allows persons 17 and older to move out. She will be 17 in April. But at this rate I don't know if she can take much more, and I'm not sure if I can take standing by helpless.
It hurts so much to see the one you love crying out in pain....and you can't do anything about it
I just wanted to get this out guys....thanks for reading it all.
Posts: 349 | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
(((Saephon))) Hang in there man. Do what you can from a distance and don't beat yourself up too much for not being able to do more. The first thing you need to do is make sure that you're set emotionally from your end. You can't do much to support her if you're stressed yourself about keeping grades and such up. So make sure you don't get overly stressed yourself, and then just do what you can. A friendly ear, even at a distance, can do more than you'd think.
By the way, where in New York are you going to school? I'm at Skidmore in Saratoga Springs, fourty minutes north of Albany. If more New York folk keep showing up we may have to have an NYCon soon Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
That's rough - I'm sorry. Is it a possibility that she can find a relative in her area she can live with until she's done with high school?
As for T.C., there are rescue organizations out there that will take him in and make sure he ends up with a loving family. That might be the best thing for her to do. She probably won't find a job at this age that will allow her to keep him and avoid living with her family, too.
Posts: 1006 | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
Thanks a lot for the responses. We've talked again and one of our mutual best friends may be able to give her boarding in his guest room. She's looking for a job right now so that she's prepared when she's old enough to get out of there.
I'm very proud of her; she's decided that she definitely wants to finish her education. If she can't pay for college on her own, she at least wants to find a place to stay to get through her last year of high school.
Anyway I just got off the phone with her, and she sounds a little happier. The support from me and our friend are probably no more than she needs. I believe things will definitely get better; I just wish it were sooner for her, rather than later. I'll keep you updated if you're interested. Thanks
posted
Glad things are looking up... a little anyway. Definitely keep us updated.
Still curious: where in New York do you go to school? Unless you'd rather not divulge... which I can understand.
Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
My parents also kicked me out of my house because they didn't like my boyfriend. It's incredibly hard, but survivable. The most important thing that you can do is be there for her.
If she's planning on going to college, you should do some research into financial independence. Even though I haven't taken money from my parents for almost a year, I'm still considered dependent on them for purposes of financial aid until I'm 24. Some states do have abuse provisions, though, and she may need to do something about that (if she's interested) while she's still living with them.
Oh, and when she leaves, she needs to be sure to take either her Social Security Card or her birth certificate, to ensure that she can get a job.
Posts: 1 | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
Thanks for any additional advice. Little update: I went to her house yesterday and we just snuggled at stayed warm by the fire, watching movies. We exchanged gifts, and they were so lovely; her creativity and thoughtfulness was showed even brighter because she couldn't afford anything expensive. I gave her a ring....not terribly pricey, but it is very pretty, and she absolutely loves it. I'm so happy to have her in my life, and she feels the same.
Just now however...she's texting me telling me that her mother saw the ring and started screaming at her. She's threatening to punish her severely if she doesn't give it back or throw it away. :/
So much for happy holidays. I guess celebrating Christmas and one year of love is not proper. Funny that she also considers herself to be a devout follower of Jesus.
*sigh* My girlfriend is so depressed now ._.
Edit: I go to Rochester Institute of Tech. for anyone who was wondering. I'm home now in Chicago until mid semester starts up again in January.
Posts: 349 | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
This girl needs help. She needs to get out of there, she needs to worry about herself and finishing up her high school. Frankly, taking care of the pony should be the last thing on her mind. She needs to take care of herself, first. I had a gf with similar problems in her teen years. It was hard all around for her. Getting to a safe place where she isn't being abused should be the first priority.
Posts: 1042 | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I agree, it should be low on her priorities, but she loves that horse so much. Her mom blackmailed her today, choose your boyfriend or T.C. After a while my girlfriend told her to sell the horse and basically just go stick it. She wants to get out of there, get an education, and be with me.
Unfortunately she isn't having the best of holidays. She had to listen to her mom talk about how disappointing she is at a family party, got called a whore, and when she asked why her parents want to hurt her, the mom replied "because you deserve to be hurt."
:/ My mom asked me if I want her to try to meet with these people to hear their side of the story. I don't see what good it will do, in fact, my g/f swears to me that they'll just treat her worse if anyone tries to help. But I dunno....my mom knows how upset this makes me.
Meh...hope everyone's Holidays are good. Talk to ya later :/ Thanks for listening Hatrack.
Posts: 349 | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
Well, that tells about everything, 'because you deserve to be hurt'. That certainly IS abuse. Useless to hear 'their side of the story', no excuse for saying that if you'd ask me.
Posts: 1247 | Registered: Apr 2000
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posted
Speaking from experience, the best thing you can do to support her is to remind her that there is only a short time until she can leave home. You should treat her lovingly and kindly and express how much you love her. Believe me, in a family like the one you described, she will be in desperate need of kindness. As for T.C., she should ask around and post in the newspaper for someone to purchase her pony. There are plenty of people who would buy a good natured pony for their children, or barns looking for school horses for beginning riders. When you return home, give her hugs, listen to her, sympathize with her, remind her that what her parents say is not true and that other people love her. When you're at college, write to her and do as much. To deal with her family, just survive them. Don't try to fix them, they'll only get worse. Accept that they are dysfunctional and wait for them to calm down and forget what they shout when they're agitated. Silence or very few, neutral words are generally the best way to make it through the yelling.
Posts: 130 | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
Speaking from experience, the best thing you can do to support her is to remind her that there is only a short time until she can leave home. You should treat her lovingly and kindly and express how much you love her. Believe me, in a family like the one you described, she will be in desperate need of kindness. As for T.C., she should ask around and post in the newspaper for someone to purchase her pony. There are plenty of people who would buy a good natured pony for their children, or barns looking for school horses for beginning riders. When you return home, give her hugs, listen to her, sympathize with her, remind her that what her parents say is not true and that other people love her. When you're at college, write to her and do as much. To deal with her family, just survive them. Don't try to fix them, they'll only get worse. Accept that they are dysfunctional and wait for them to calm down and forget what they shout when they're agitated. Silence or very few, neutral words are generally the best way to make it through the yelling.
Posts: 130 | Registered: Jan 2007
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posted
If I were you, I'd solve the (little) ring problem by taking it back from her and holding onto it until she can move out. It will still be hers, but it won't cause her to be further punished in the meantime.
Posts: 1903 | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Does it strike anyone else as odd that this girl's parents got her a damn pony in the first place? I guess the moral of the story is that you should never get your daughter a pony. I'm only glad that these freaking morons are finally realizing what kind of child they've raised.
Posts: 763 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Hey Saephon, how are things going? I hope that last post didn't scare you off. I'm reasonably sure the vast majority of people here are really interested in helping and being supportive. So ... any good news? Bad news? Or no news?
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Survivor: Does it strike anyone else as odd that this girl's parents got her a damn pony in the first place? I guess the moral of the story is that you should never get your daughter a pony. I'm only glad that these freaking morons are finally realizing what kind of child they've raised.
Jackass.
And I am not talking about the parents, just to be clear.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
That isn't helping, Kwea, and Papa Moose has to run around on a Sunday to clean this all up. Whistling does enough.
Could you please edit yourself not to be name-calling, so that Papa Moose has a little less to deal with on a day he should be spending with his family? Call it rude, call it obnoxious, call it whatever. Don't call names, though, and don't use un-family-friendly words. Please! Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000
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posted
Okay, leaving any "profanity" aside, does anyone else think the described situation a little strange?
Posts: 763 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Survivor- No, not really. Plenty of abusive parents behave in completely incomprehensible ways. One of my friends is dating a girl who has every material thing a person could want. However, when her mother found the letters my friend had written her (nothing dirty, just letters) and the girl asked for them back, her mother dragged her by the hair down the hallway to her room and started beating her.
Plenty of abusive parents want everything to look good. They want to look like perfect parents. So they live in nice houses, and their kids have every material desire fulfilled. So everyone thinks, "oh what great parents". While behind closed doors, they are horribly abusive.
I'm afraid I'm not being very eloquent, perhaps someone else will explain this better than I am.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
*attempts* It's really important to abusive people that they be seen as good human beings. I think it's a way for them to justify their actions. It's also a way for them to gain even more control over the people they're abusing.
posted
blacwolve, I think you explained yourself very well.
My parents, for example, found it to be extremely important to have the right image. In front of other people, they acted kind and decent. In private, it was hell.
My mother is still caught up in the whole "we must appear to be a close family" crap. It's gotta look perfect. In reality, I disowned them over a decade ago and won't have anything to do with them ever again. They won't admit that to anyone else. They still want to know details of my life. They still want in. But there was never any amount of love, kindness, concern, caring. I never mattered. It was all about them, them, them, and what could I do to make their lives better.
My mother wants to be in communication with me not because she loves me but because it makes her look better.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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But does any of this have the slightest bit to do with the situation under discussion here?
Sure, I suffered moderate to severe abuse from one of my parents. Beatings and death threats and stuff like that. So maybe that makes me unable to see anything terrible here...other than a 19 year old guy doing an underaged girl, that is.
[Altered profanity. --PJ]
[ January 29, 2007, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: Papa Janitor ]
Posts: 763 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
I'm sorry for double posting, but I re-read Saephon's posts a bit more carefully to try and determine what you were all seeing in them that I wasn't...I've been guilty of wavering on the whole statutory rape thing from time to time...of course I think it's terrible, but I usually think that "rape" should only refer to a physically violent sexual assault.
But this...I honestly want to take a knife to this guy's jewels. Can't any of you hear the story he's telling? And he sees so little wrong with this...maybe that's what has you all thinking that he must be a good guy, that he doesn't believe he's doing anything bad.
This girl...maybe she's 17 by now. That's half my age. Perhaps that's just causing me to overreact because I'm desperate to deny that I'm a broken-down old man or something. There is exactly one person causing pain and regret in her life that will follow her for years--decades--to come, and he's a member of this "community" of yours.
Why will you turn a blind eye to this?
[ January 29, 2007, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: Papa Janitor ]
Posts: 763 | Registered: Aug 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Survivor: Ah, I so look forward to seeing y'all in Hell.
What on earth is this for?
quote:Originally posted by Survivor: Does it strike anyone else as odd that this girl's parents got her a damn pony in the first place? I guess the moral of the story is that you should never get your daughter a pony. I'm only glad that these freaking morons are finally realizing what kind of child they've raised.
What kind of child do you think they raised? And why would that be the moral of the story?
quote:Originally posted by Survivor: Hmm...okay.
But does any of this have the slightest bit to do with the situation under discussion here?
Sure, I suffered moderate to severe abuse from one of my parents. Beatings and death threats and stuff like that. So maybe that makes me unable to see anything terrible here...
We were discussing patterns of behavior in abusive parents. Was that not sufficiently clear for you?
quote:Originally posted by Survivor: other than a 19 year old guy doing an underaged girl, that is.
quote:Originally posted by Survivor: I've been guilty of wavering on the whole statutory rape thing from time to time...of course I think it's terrible, but I usually think that "rape" should only refer to a physically violent sexual assault.
But this...I honestly want to take a knife to this guy's jewels. Can't any of you hear the story he's telling? And he sees so little wrong with this...maybe that's what has you all thinking that he must be a good guy, that he doesn't believe he's doing anything bad.
This girl...maybe she's 17 by now. That's half my age. Perhaps that's just causing me to overreact because I'm desperate to deny that I'm a broken-down old man or something. There is exactly one person causing pain and regret in her life that will follow her for years--decades--to come, and he's a member of this "community" of yours.
Please point out exactly what Saephon said that indicates that they're having sex. From where I'm sitting, I see nothing indicating sexual activity is taking place. They may be - I have no idea. But really, that's the point. We don't know.
Accusing him of being a rapist based on what's posted in this thread is, well, rude and uncalled for.
But then, given other things you've said in this thread, this isn't surprising behavior from you.
Using foul language is not necessary. Neither is accusing someone of statutory rape based on the zero evidence in this thread.
Is this a game to you? Are you trying to see how destructive you can be here? Are you a troublemaker? A troll? From where I'm sitting, that's the evidence I'm seeing so far.
quote:This girl...maybe she's 17 by now. That's half my age.
From first post:
quote:I'm nearly 19 years old
Okay, so you, some random person, is twice as old as the girlfriend of some other random person. How is this relevant?
Posts: 1547 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Hey survivor if at any point you actually want to try to help the situation, that would be cool too.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Also, even if they were having sex, the age of consent is 17 or less in many states. On top of that, they clearly don't have much of an age difference. So this is a terrible thing why, exactly?
posted
The only thing that would help is for Saephon to realize that he's the primary stressor on this girl. What he can do to make things better...none of us can know that till Saephon is willing to bring a more honest assessment to the table.
Posts: 763 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Survivor, whether or not folks agree with your take, it's at least in some way reasonable (if inconsiderate, depending) to posit, if you can do so without a personal attack (perhaps ask a question rather than state the claim?). But please cut out the profanity, leetspeak or not.
quote:The only thing that would help is for Saephon to realize that he's the primary stressor on this girl.
Yeah, man. You are a manly Internet man, who does not even have to afford the possibility that her parents may be the wrongdoers, and not Saephon. What a great way to bypass any inconvenient ambiguities! You don't ask questions, you just point fingers.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Actually, I did ask a question. It was answered in such a way as to fully justify some finger-pointing.
Posts: 763 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Oh, and sorry about the obscenity (as if it's possible to profane that particular concept, sheesh). It was an unwise experiment. Probably not a very meaningful one either.
Posts: 763 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Survivor- You came into a thread in which a guy talks about how his girlfriend is undergoing abuse from her parents. You automatically assume that he's the problem, without ever saying anything to justify that assumption. Along the way you accuse him of being a rapist, again with nothing to back it up.
This is all after behaving like a troll for several days as an "experiment".
Why would you think people are going to respond well to that?
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Survivor, you claim to be an ascetic, of the taoist type, but you do not fit the bill. You do not follow the way, you are causing turbulence instead of averting it. One does not need to experiment with being a troll, because one already knows what will happen if they are pulling off that kind of bull.
By the way, this guy's treatment and correspondence with the girl is definitely a positive. A stressor is not a positive that causes another person to become angry at the person receiving the positive, the one being angry is the stressor.
BTW, you need to research the taoist meaning of balance.
Saephon, keep it up, and do not think you are hurting her by providing compassion. Help her with college apps or other items that will help her achieve independence.
Posts: 883 | Registered: Aug 2005
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What, exactly, about her parents' behavior is abusive? Even taking Saephon at his word, which I'm not inclined do. What about the situation indicates that he is not the problem?
Saephon, feel free to correct me. We're all going off of your words and nothing else here. Tell us more about these "therapy support groups" her parents have taken her to which are actually some kind of abuser justification system. Make it clear why it's unusual for you to "just snuggle" with her at her parents' home. Help me to understand why it is that every objective indication in your posts seems to suggest that she really would be better off in every way if you would just leave her alone for a few years.
Posts: 763 | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Ok, I gave you the benefit of a doubt. You choose not to take it. I'm really sorry that Saephon is being subjected to your bile; but I'm no long going to give you the attention you clearly crave.
Posts: 4655 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Ok maybe I'm just crazy but how does her being almost 17 and him 19 have anything to do with him causeing her stress and whatnot (regadless of if sex is involved or not). In a year whn shes basickly 18 and hes 20 will the ages still be what mnakes you think theres a problem? He is trying to help her and be supportive and he's in the wrong? The only propblem I see here is that you jump to the conclusion that it's all his fault casue hes over 18 and shes under. As for the statutory that is not even an issue for him to have to worry about cause as was said in most state 16 or 17 is consinting age and also to cover situations where one person is under ager and another is barely over atleast some states also have it where if your within like 3 to 4 years age differance it's considerd leagl as well.
Posts: 38 | Registered: Nov 2006
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quote: What, exactly, about her parents' behavior is abusive? Even taking Saephon at his word, which I'm not inclined do. What about the situation indicates that he is not the problem?
It's amusing to see this because you're answering your own question. All we have to know each other by here are words. Basically on an internet forum without any other information you have to assume that people are behaving and being truthful. It's called an honest and good faith discussion. I know it's probably beyond comprehension. But people here are actually trying to believe that people are telling the truth as they see/understand it.
posted
I just figured if it got asked in a slightly differnt way he might respond.
As for advice for Saephon haveing been in a simular situation all I can say is continue what you have and them same things MOST people here have said.
Posts: 38 | Registered: Nov 2006
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I already said that I think breaking things off for a few years would be a sensible strategy. And yes, it will almost certainly make an amazing difference in her level of maturity and her parents willingness to let her date him.
The fact that this is technically legal in some states doesn't affect the basic problem. Taking slaves and executing disobediant females are both legal in some places, that doesn't mean I'll approve of either.
The more problematical issue is that you all seem to be willing to uncritically condemn this girl's parents and say that continuing the destructive behavior pattern that has, by his own account, initiated the stress she's under, is a good thing. You are setting her up for a disaster of the first order, and none of you seem to recognize this possibility.
Can you at least consider the fact that this teenaged angst might have more to do with her age than with any actual wrong-doing on the part of her parents? Storm Saxon said something very wise which all of you could have heeded. It's hard to give good advice without knowing both sides of the story. You all could have at least asked the obvious questions.
Why did her parents feel more justified in treating her this way after attending therapy? What kind of upbringing made her appalled at the notion of having to pay for her own pet's upkeep or sell it? Why would both of them feel comfortable enough to go to her parent's house to "just snuggle" in front of the fireplace and exchange gifts? Is the parents' concern about the effect of her behavior on her behaviorally challenged younger brother totally unjustified?
And you didn't, and I couldn't be bothered with this place at the time, and probably a young girl has missed out on a chance to reconcile with her parents at the cost of simply cooling off things with her boyfriend for a couple of years. I know that seems like an eternity to most teenagers, but that's because those couple of years can change damn near everything.
I'm not here to save anyone, and you're all quite right to feel uncomfortable with me. But don't let your hatred blind you. Or, well, don't let it make you blinder.
Posts: 763 | Registered: Aug 1999
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I'm originally from Illinois, but I am currently at college in NY. I'll be going home for the holidays, but the way things are, I'm not sure she'll even be allowed to see me. I try to do whatever I can for this lady that I love, to reassure her that things will get better. But she is so hurt. Her family attended a few therapy support groups, but my girlfriend says that all it did was make her parents feel more right...and make her feel like things will never get better.
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