posted
This might be an odd time of year to ask, but my brother and I are planning to go camping for our first time, probably in January.
We're 17 and 18, and can both drive. It will be summer here in Australia. I spent a brief two years in army cadets, and my brother is still an officer in his unit, so we're not new to that sort of camping. We're ok with the idea of spending a few days away from running water and flushing toilets, and can navigate in the bush. But it will be our first time doing any recreational camping.
What we're looking for is a chance to just enjoy nature for a while, as far from civilisation as is reasonable. We aren't going out there to prove our manhood or 'eat only what we can catch'. There won't be air mattresses, but there will be a pair of comfy deck chairs. Cheap, but not Spartan. Case in point: we're not exactly huge fans of the standard army shelter.
A major limitation is that we only have access to a small front-wheel drive car. It can take dirt tracks, but we probably can't camp too far from an established route. We plan to be out for maybe a week. There are some camp sites with facilities we can take advantage of along the way.
Is there anything in particular I should look out for when I get a tent? I'm thinking of investing in a 3 or 4 man shelter, preferably which will stand up to some wear and can be opened up a bit during the day. What kind of food is most cost effective (but still palatable)? I hope the places we visit aren't declared no-fire zones because of the drought...
Any other relevant advice would be much appreciated.
(I know, I overuse commas.)
Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006
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One question before I make tent recommendations: how many days do you intend to be staying in the same place?
Your biggest concern with food if you're going for a week in mid-summer will be spoilage. Icepacks aren't going to last unless you take advantage of nearby streams for additional cooling, so you'll need to either bring non-perishables or plan to stop at regular intervals to replace either them or whatever cooling system you're using. Processed meats and jerkies -- hot dogs, lunch meat, etc. -- can last nearly forever, and if you have steak the first day you can use the leftovers for stew on the second day without any serious worries about spoilage. Pastas and soups are excellent choices, for obvious reasons, and you can do really creative things with bags of formerly frozen vegetables, a box of macaroni and cheese, some sort of protein, and a casserole dish. Camping desserts tend towards cobblers made with baking mix, canned peaches, and/or pie filling, but the old "banana, peel stuffed with mini-marshmallows and chocolate chips" is a standby, too.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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My question is much the same as Tom's: Are you camping or hiking? I wouldn't be able to stand just staying in one campsite for a week. Maybe a day, if it's beautiful 2 days, but then I have to have a pack on my back and be walking to be happy and relaxed (which is the whole reason I love the outdoors. It makes me happy and relaxed). If you're hiking, I've got tons of advice for you. If you're just camping, I'll still have advice for you, but my first advice would be to plan to do some hiking.
I'll post more after Christmas . I hope yours was better weather than mine! The much vaunted "Florida weather" has failed. The day is hot, muggy, and rainy. Pretty miserable. Ah well. Can't win em all I suppose.
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Canned meats are good as well, but if you're hiking in, you want to bring them sparingly. Make sure your tent is sturdy enough to hold up to wind, rain, and a mild sandstorm, even if you don't expect to encounter any of them, and you should be good. Bring an extra-large tarp for under the tent to make a "porch" area out front and you won't regret it. (It helps keep dew out as well as being a nice place to put your dirty boots.)
Gosh, I don't really know what all to tell you since I don't know what you do and do not know about pleasure camping, or how you intend on doing it. For instance, I could recommend some things about cooking sources, but half of them are useless if you're hiking in and the other half are pretty useless if you aren't...
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I'll echo the request for more information. Are you driving to your campsites or are you driving to a trailhead and hiking to your campsite? Or something else?
BTW, I use a tarp as my shelter when I'm backpacking. As long as you have some bugnetting when necessary, it's great.
Posts: 2149 | Registered: Aug 2000
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I like the beehive tents -- easy to set up.
I'm no Aussie, but there may be something special you have to do about native wildlife. Particularly that spider that can bite through a leather boot.
Supposedly: get the *best* food you can; money isn't an object. Calories per pound you have to lug in is. Also, things get really heavy when you have to carry them in.
posted
Thanks everyone! To answer your questions: We'll definitely be moving around. We probably won't spend more than 2 nights at one site, and will be hiking around quite a bit. Spoilage definitely is a problem; the wildlife services are particularly tough on littering, and for good reason. I don't think we'll run into very many cool streams. Your suggestions sound good Tom, thanks.
Will, I'll be sure to do some refresher research on our native creepy crawlies before we set out.
My brother tends to want to camp nearer to the car, but I personally don't mind parking it at a trailhead and hiking to a site on higher ground. I doubt camping near a trail will be as pleasurable or interesting as pitching camp on top of a hill we climbed ourselves. I'm trying to convince him to follow my plan. (of course in that instance we will forego the deck chairs)
One thing we definitely won't be doing is camping near a caravan park or a serviced campsite. We're doing this partly to get away from people. What we will do is stop by to grab a shower before the next leg of our journey.
Oh, and the reason I'm looking for a 3 or 4 man tent is because my brother might bring a friend along, and in case I go camping with my own friends in the future. Miro, I appreciate the lightness of a tarp shelter and actually like taking in the night air while I sleep, but I tend to get cold under one of those. I know, I probably need a heavier duty sleeping bag.
As for what we do and do not know about pleasure camping: We've pretty much got the safety/hygiene stuff and the equipment covered. You can count on us having a bit of common sense, but I'm not insulted when someone offers some advice I'm already familiar with.
Food was kind of a grey area, and any hiking tips would be great. Basically, was there something you wish someone told you before you went camping for the first time?
I'll have more specific questions as more detailed plans take shape. Sorry to be so vague.
I'll post more after Christmas . I hope yours was better weather than mine! The much vaunted "Florida weather" has failed. The day is hot, muggy, and rainy. Pretty miserable. Ah well. Can't win em all I suppose.
I don't think you want to hear about my Christmas.
I hope you still had a good time indoors though.
Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006
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- Dry summer sausage. It lasts longer than most people expect, especially if you wait to open the packaging. It's also calorically dense (and tasty). - Cheese. The harder the cheese, the longer it lasts outside the fridge. I have carried cheddar cheese during the summer for up to a week with no problems. It gets a little mushy, but doesn't go bad. If it's really hot where you are, though, you might not want to keep it more than a couple days. It also packs a lot of calories. - For a bread product, I sometimes carry tortillas, as they're easy to pack. Pitas also work. If you get tortillas, go for the ones with preservatives. The ones without mold pretty easily. - Rice and pasta are great for dinners. You can carry cheese or flavor packets to make it interesting. A lot of people go for Kraft-style mac and cheese. I don't, but that's just me. - Dry soup mixes are good, especially for cold nights. - Granola or fruit bars are good for a snack. - Peanut butter packs a whallop of calories and it keeps. I prefer Nutella, but I don't know if you have it down there. - Oatmeal is a classic breakfast, but can be a pain to clean up. If you get a box of individual oatmeal packets, you can actually just pour hot water into the packet itself and eat out of that. Easy cleanup. - Granola and some milk powder also works. - If it's cold at night, hot chocolate or tea can be really nice. - And don't forget gorp. There are a million recipes out there. I tend to just throw a bunch of mixed nuts, dried fruit, and chocolate together. Works for me.
Do you have a camping stove? If not, I'd reccomend some type of alcohol stove. They're really easy and cheap to make. (A coupleresources.) Denatured alcohol works best as a fuel, but there are some other options (check out the second link).
General camping notes: - Test all your gear before you go. - Treat all your water. - Tell someone at home the where and when (so they know to look for you). - HYOH (Hike Your Own Hike). Posts: 2149 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Ok, when I was hiking, I met this interesting character who went by the name of BonePac (first NOBO to finish the Trail this year Miro). He got me going on the whole cold food thing. He recommended getting tortilla wrap type things and putting deli meat, cheese and ranch dressing in it. Wrap it up, put it in a baggy, and it doesn't seem to go bad. I know, it defies logic and possibly sound medical advice, but it worked for him and it worked for me. They tasted really good and made evenings so much more enjoyable. No hassle with a stove, no dishes to clean, no trash to dispose of other than a sandwich bag ... It was heaven. And possibly very useful to you, since I believe you mentioned a possible fire-ban.
Poptarts and PBJ were my lifeblood when I was hiking. Get a loaf of bred, jar of peanut butter, and jar of jelly. Make your sandwhiches. You are not allowed to have any of any of the items left over.
And granola bars. Simple little things to put in your pocket at the beginning of the day and munch as as they're called for. Oh, and if you're like me and don't care about all that transsaturatedfattysugar mumbo jumbo, honey buns are a massive amount of calories, cheap, and light.
As for hiking - Bring camp shoes!! For Gods sake bring camp shoes. For 3 weeks I had only my boots. When I camped at the end of the day, it was either wear the boots I'd worn all day, through rivers and mud and puddles, or go barefoot. Oh how I wished for some camp shoes. I don't know what your situation would require. For me, since I was doing a lot of wet hiking (rivers and rain), water shoes would have been ideal, so I could switch them out for my boots at river crossings and slip them on at night to wear around. But, since someone mentioned a man eating spider (donchya just love exaggeration?), that may not be a good idea.
Poles are your friend if you're doing a lot of uphill/downhill hiking.
As for shelter, that's pretty much up to you. You know your budget and your wants/needs. If you want something that will last you for a long time, its probably worth the money to dish out the big bucks for a high quality tent (I don't know how prevalent brands like MSR or Black Diamond are over there). If you just want something for a handful of trips where you don't expect any extreme weather, you don't need something expensive. I've slept under the stars, in a tent (huge, medium, and tiny), in a shelter, in a tent in a shelter, under a tarp, in a bivy sack, and in a hammock, and each have their places where they are best. Ask yourself how long you plan on spending in the tent (e.g., only sleeping, hanging out telling stories, etc). Ask yourself how important comfort is when sleeping, as opposed to comfort hiking (spaciousness vs weight). Ask yourself how tall you or your guests are (nothing worse than a too short tent). And finally, ask yourself, "Would Chuck Norris sleep in this tent?".
And finally, some words of personal wisdom I have learned: Sticks, not rocks. Tent poles are meant to be bent, not broken. And no Ginger Ale and jelly donuts at least 3 hours prior to hiking. (Don't worry, they weren't supposed to make sense).
Sorry this was somewhat convoluted. I just kind of wrote things as they came to me. Any questions, please ask. Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Thank you both for the great advice. Those are some especially useful food ideas. I'm definitely liking the cheese, sausage, and BonePac's tortilla.
Regarding the camping stove, we used to stick a mini-grill on top of a hexamine tablet and cook that way. That worked for kidney cups, but I guess investing in an alcohol stove would be worth it; it would be easier if one person could do the cooking for all 3 campers. I'll definitely look into it.
I will avoid gas stoves. Explosions are scary.
quote:Originally posted by Dr Strangelove:
And finally, ask yourself, "Would Chuck Norris sleep in this tent?".
quote:Originally posted by Dr Strangelove: Ok, when I was hiking, I met this interesting character who went by the name of BonePac (first NOBO to finish the Trail this year Miro).
I know BonePac. (: Shared a shelter with him in the 100 Mile Wilderness. He was so determined to finish that by the time I met him, he was down to the bare minimum as far as gear was concerned. I remember thinking he was a bit below the minimum. Cool guy, though.
Posts: 2149 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote: I will avoid gas stoves. Explosions are scary
Actually the Whisperlite is an excellent stove. Don't see how you would get an explosion unless you decide to get stupid with it. The only thing outside of it is using your fire, or using fuel pellets. The only problem using Whisperlites is getting the fuel. White gas isn't exactly sold everywhere.
I'll look at this later in the morning when I am not so tired and ummm....more sober. I'll see what I can come up with for you. I used to do a lot of extensive backpacking treks, and still do some now and then.
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
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You've stated you have equipment covered. You were asking about a tent, durable one too. Honestly, you are going to have to just take care with whatever you get anyway. For hiking it, you will want a nylon, or other light material, tent. Place a small tarp under it to protect the bottom. You can get tents pretty cheap at walmart, but you may want to check out stores that deal specifically with outdoors gear. Weight is a big concern for packing. Depending on the distance you are backpacking, it may not be so much. However, as I am sure you might know, 1 ounce at the begging of the day feels like 1 pound at the end of the day. And when they all add up...that's quite a bit of weight felt. Bring a patch kit along if you fear tearing. I have a 2 man, that has been through more abuse than a heavy weight boxer. It has a few patches, but not much else.
Sleeping bag. I prefer a mummy bag. I use a Kelty Hollowfill II. You can get these fairly cheap these days (mummies in general). Nothing extravagent (the 20-45 degree bags should suffice). But it definately helps if it compacts to a small size. Space considerations. You want to make as much space as you can for any extra gear and food as you can. Especially food.
Boots. I am sure you are aware of what you need for footwear. My belief is that this is most important. If your feet get wet or sore, it will ruin your entire trip. It may lead to a potential of seeing the doctor. I stress ankle support the most. The most expensive are generally NOT the best. My buddies did a hike with me while they were wearing $200 boots. I was wearing $40 Hi-Tecs. Those Hi-Tecs have lasted over 300 miles of backpacking. My buddies threw theirs away after one trip. They were too heavy, too stiff (you should have some flexibility), and overall, just too uncomfortable. I prefer all leather, my dad likes to use a mix of leather and webbed nylon. Whatever floats your boat, just waterproof them.
Socks. Goes along with boots as far as importance (catch the trend ). I wear two sets, even when I hiked desert. The inner socks were made of Polypropylene. These are great for wicking away moisture from the feet. The outer socks are made of wool. Not heavy wool. They make some socks that you probably don't need liners for, and you can always check those out. Whatever you do...do not use cotton socks . Cotton absorbs moisture. The only way you can get away with it is if you have used cotton socks on all of your trainin up hikes (if you did any). And I'm talking months in advance on this.
Food. We all feel that this is important. You need to sustain yourself somehow. Go with what you think is good. My recommendations (just friendly tips) do not bring canned food, unless you are bringing one can of something that you two really want for maybe the end of the trail. I would hope you would really want it though. I usually went with freeze dried or dehydrated foods. Nothing fresh that can spoil (I believe this was already said somewhere). Bring trail snacks. Miro made an excellent point of saying granola bars (All The above posters made great recommendations). Keep these snacks handy to reach in your pack while on the trail. I used to bring Pemmican bars as well. I don't recommend it really. They taste like cardboard, even though they are really good for you. They can also leave you constipated if you don't drink enough. Jerky does the same. Although it is kinda nice having some along (the real stuff, not that processed crap). We had processed cheese in packets, and would spread it on ritz crackers. Really, food is up to you. I just try to keep down on the weight. I already carry over 50 pounds on my back, and that's without food.
General gear.
-Pack cover -> If rain is expected than I would bring one. Also, you can put your clothes into ziplock bags.
-Lighter -> Matches are great...until some nitwit (we had one in one of my crews) leaves them out all night and they get soggy and useless. They do have waterproof wood matches though, so you can always use those.
-Clothes -> you probably only need to bring 2 sets of shorts, shirts, socks, underwear. Sounds like you are going to visit the showers along the way...I would bring a small towel. Full sized one is too bulky, holds a lot of water and adds weight.
-Raingear-> Poncho, or something that tucks away small. Space considerations. Don't get anything too cheap though. Hiking while drenched...sucks to say the least. Gaitors if need be, but those don't always work as advertised.
-Hat-> As you are aware, a hat is most likely going to be needed. No ballcaps. A hat with a full all around brim is, for lack of better words, required. Not only should you keep your face shaded from the sun, but the back of your neck too. These can be found cheap, like 5 bucks USD.
-Sun tan lotion-> Whatever you think you need for spf. make sure to hit all skin showing. especially the back of your legs. My boy Clint got no sleep one night when we hiked up a haunted mesa in New Mexico (I can share this story as a topic of its own if people want). When he was in his sleeping bag, his legs felt like they were on fire. When he was out of the bag, he was freezing.
-Watch, Map, Compass, First Aid kit,Chapstick/Lip Balm, Flashlight, Toothbrush and Paste, Cup, Plate, Fork spoon or Spork, Water Bottles(3 liters worth each is preferred), and a Pot -> self explanatory
-Bandana - 1 or 2. these can be used as hand towels, or dew rag, or anything else you come up with.
-Small trash bags-> Reality, large ziplock bags (freezer type because they are tougher) work best. To carry your trash out with you. Sorry, but I am a leave no trace hiker. I always bring these and say that everyone else should too. Only things being put in this should be your meal scraps, and containers. You can toss them into what ever trash receptical you come across on the way.
-Ground pad-> They not only help make you comfy for sleep, but can also help keep you warm. I use a Z-Rest, but you can use whatever you want. Z-Rests fold, so they always fold to the same dimensions. Other foam types and even inflatables (I own 2 inflatables) don't always roll to the same dimension. Care requirements are more stringent on the inflatable ones as well. 3/4 length will suffice.
-Water Filters or Iodine Tablets-> I've always used Iodine tablets, but have some friends that get sick with it. There are many types of filters available on the market. They all work as well as the next. It's just based on the want. Also, old fashioned boiling still works. However, it leaves the water tasting stale and uses fuel. Taste isn't a concern to me, but is for some people. Fuel usage is a concern of mine. At the end of the day I prefer a hot meal. Darn ya to heck and back if I am going to eat a cold dinner.
-Stoves-> I've stated above one type, and the problem. White gas isn't always easy to find. I don't like using propane, as the bottles are bulky, and not reusable. You mentioned not wanting to use a stove. That's fine. Use your camp fire, or pellet fuel stove to make your meal. There is also a very, very, very compact stove (you can make it out of a Coke can...we did) out there. It uses denatured alcohol as a fuel. The fuel can be found in most hardware stores. Unless you live by my parents. Then you have to go to the next county over.
-Dity bag-> Usually these are just a sack. Can be a spare sleeping bag case you have laying around. Whatever it is, it should be durable. Don't leave your food on the ground, in your packs or anything like that at night. By the way, experience has shown that chipmunks love trail mix... The biggest concern where I hike is the bears. So have plenty of nylon rope along as well. Most likely bearlines won't be installed where you are camping (most places don't have them). So you may have to suffice with finding a long branch of a tree. String it up (the bag) before you cash in for the night. Critters have all sorts of stuff they can eat without having to eat your food. Your trash (in the bags you use) will also go in here.
Wow, this is turning out longer than I intended. I'm writing this for anyone else who may want the info. Mind you, if it were winter...this list would have quite a bit more stuff on it.
Unusual objects.
-Half to full roll of toilet paper-> TP, or ApP (all purpose paper) as we called it. Fits easier in your pack if you pull the cardboard out of the middle. You should also put it in a small ziplock bag. You do not want it getting wet...unintentionally anyway. OK, TP can not only be used as its obvious purpose, but also can be used to aid in cleaning your plate, cup, etc. This is nice because if you were to use the bandanas..you would have to trash a new one every night, unless you wanted the scent for critters to find.
Optional items.
Sunglasses, a book, deck of cards, pen and paper, camera, whatever items you think of that you would want to bring that you can.
I'm sure I am probably missing something, but this list is long enough.
OH! Medication. Jeeze, I'm definately sure you don't need me to say this, but I'm just giving a friendly reminder. If you are alergic to anything critter-wise (bees, fire ants, i don't know), bring your stuff. Please. The most important thing is to come back in the same condition as you left. Not to come back injured, or deathly sick, or even dead.
Hey, sorry I overloaded, but I just ran through my list of the training I give the Boy Scouts prior to doing any backpacking. With a couple of exceptions. You don't have a Class A Uniform you have to wear on the way there. So, with that, I bid you a safe and happy hike.
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Wow, I knew I was long on that post. However, now that I see it fully.....that's way long! I apologize.
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Bring lots of water (it's Australia. It's summer. You know that )
I think a 3 man tent is *minimum*. We camp in a 6-man tent for the two of us, but that contains our 'queen' sized mattress (queen in camping world, bit bigger than a single in the non-tent world) and enough space to walk around the mattress.
If you are planning on camping away from abultions, a solar shower is a nice thing. We camped on the ningaloo reef and didn't have one - but luckily the other nice campers sharing our ground did.
Food wise - for Australia - just pack non-spoilable stuff (pasta, beer , biscuits, tinned tuna, whatever) - then pack an esky with ice. Either load up the spoilables in the esky (pasta sauce you have pre-cooked (or, just buy the premade stuff), eggs, milk, bacon (you need bacon while camping) etc) or wait until the nearest general store to your camping ground and load up there.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: . Processed meats and jerkies -- hot dogs, lunch meat, etc. -- can last nearly forever, and if you have steak the first day you can use the leftovers for stew on the second day without any serious worries about spoilage. Pastas and soups are excellent choices, for obvious reasons, and you can do really creative things with bags of formerly frozen vegetables, a box of macaroni and cheese, some sort of protein, and a casserole dish. Camping desserts tend towards cobblers made with baking mix, canned peaches, and/or pie filling, but the old "banana, peel stuffed with mini-marshmallows and chocolate chips" is a standby, too.
I have to say, we don't have hot dogs (in the uncooked preservative sense), processed lunch meats and macaroni and cheese here. At least, I don't think we do.
Posts: 4393 | Registered: Aug 2003
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quote:I have to say, we don't have hot dogs (in the uncooked preservative sense), processed lunch meats and macaroni and cheese here. At least, I don't think we do.
I had forgotten that Australia was a Third World country. Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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Thanks so much Stan, that checklist looks pretty much complete. And no problems about it being long. I really appreciate the detail.
I'd be interested to hear about your hiking trip in New Mexico.
---
My brother is definitely bringing the beer, imogen.
I've never seen a solar shower before. The idea of a pseudo-warm shower is definitely more inviting than a water-bottle bush bath.
As for where we are camping, probably northern New South Wales. I want to mix a little climbing with some swimming at the beach. For those outside of Australia, the geography in NSW is hilly (mountainous by Australian standards), dry to temperate but with pockets of almost subtropical vegetation especially to the North. And lots of nice beaches. As imogen said, I'm guessing a lot of Western Australia is similar.
I started this thread soon after deciding on camping next month, so the route isn't set. (Honestly, I wasn't expecting this much fantastic advice.) I'll keep you posted as plans take shape.
posted
Food: freeze-dried food is good in a weight-to-calories-ratio sense, but not so good in a tastes-good sense. I recommend bringing a few heavier things to "jazz up" your freeze-dried food, as well as plenty of spices you like. Tuna is now sold in pouches here. Use the whole jar of shelf-stable pasta sauce in a jar at one go and you don't have to worry about refrigeration. Things like that.
I'm sorry, I forgot if you said if you're going to be hiking in, or driving then hiking once you get there? If you're hiking in, I can suggest a few "recipes" to jazz up ultra-lightweight freeze-dried camping food; if you're going to be driving in I've got some great camp recipes using nonperishables that are in heavier containers. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Yeah, what Stan said. Really, I've mostly been hiking in wet terrain, so my specific advice wouldn't apply to Australian hiking.
And Miro, that's awesome! He got to Stratton the same day as me and we shared a room for the afternoon, then he headed out. He was a really cool guy.
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Studying up on the flora and fauna can do nothing but benefit you. Make sure you have a trusty map of the area too, and know how to read it, and bring a compass (hopefully you know how to use one of those too).
I really can't add anything to what Dr and Stan have said except on the medication bit. The anti allergenic stuff is very important. But make sure you bring some gauze with you. Most hiking injuries are sprains, breaks, bruises, and cuts. The bandanna that Stan mentioned is also VERY useful for a (GAH! I can't spell this word! Ternicate? Turnicate? Tornicate? I just spent 20 minutes at dictionary.com and Google wracking my brains!)
If you need to apply pressure to a wound, a bandanna can do it marvelously. It is also useful for making a splint if necessary. I agree with the roomy tent, I can't tell you how many times I have thought, "I wish this tent was bigger, there are too many people that need it." I've yet to think, "man the extra few lbs this bigger tent packs is NOT worth it!"
But try your best to pack intelligently and discard any unnecessary fluff. If you plan on leaving your gear so that you can hike around thats fine, but nothing ruins a hike like an overly heavy pack. If you can drive your camping gear around and just keep your hiking stuff in your day pack thats preferable IMO. If your car represents a stinging rememberence of the civilization that waits for you upon your return fine, you will have to carry you crap everywhere.
edit: tourniquet BAM! I FOUND IT!
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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I thought we weren't supposed to use tourniquets any more. So said my last three first aid classes, anyway.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Because if you leave a tourniquet on for any length of time you do serious and lasting tissue damage to everything downstream of it.
It's my understanding, though, that it is still sometimes the only option (like taking a sharp branch through an artery miles from civilization). You might end up amputating the limb, but you'll live, at least.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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One other thing that I'd recommend that I haven't seen anyone mention is a sturdy space blanket. Besides being good for emergencies, they also make great ground tarps to keep water out of the bottom of tents, and help keep you warm at night. They're pretty light weight (although the one I have is kind of bulky), so you probably won't lose anything by taking one. At any rate, I've always been glad to have it.
Also, Stan mentioned this already, but I'd just like to say it again. Pack your clothes in ziplock bags. For one thing, they will keep any water from getting at your clothes, which is obviously important. They also are an easy way to keep a backpack organized. The best thing, I've found, is to use gallon bags and try to keep clothes packaged so each bag contains clothes for the same day.
Posts: 2437 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: I thought we weren't supposed to use tourniquets any more. So said my last three first aid classes, anyway.
THIS I can answer.
Don't use them....unless you have to.
Seriously, people use them for all sorts of wounds that could have been stopped, or slowed enough, by direct pressure. Also, people do stupid things like take them off periodically....which is the WORST thing you can do, and will probably kill you.
If you HAVE to use one....for a spurting arterial wound, or an amputation.....LEAVE IT ON UNTIL YOU GET TO A HOSPITAL!!!!! Do NOT take it off, or loosen it yourself. Once on, it has to STAY on.
Sorry, it really IS that important.
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Well, right, if you have to move someone and you're the only one to do it and need to stop the bleeding, I know you can in an ABSOLUTE ENTIRELY TOTALLY REALLY UNAVOIDABLE EMERGENCY.
But if there's someone there to keep on direct pressure, that's infinitely better, so much that tourniquets weren't even taught the last three times I took my First Aid certification, only mentioned in passing. (Speaking of which, my CPR and first aid certs are expired... I need to do that again.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
(A bandana does, in combination with some sterile gauze, make an excellent pressure bandage, though. So I think the original point stands. )
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Official Red Cross policy for the last 20+ years has been not to teach tourniquet use in basic first aid courses (and instead to give dire warnings about them). EMT-level courses do include proper tourniquet use, I believe.
I have been told this is a legal issue (teaching tourniquet use to what are essentially slightly trained amateurs opened the RC up to lawsuits every time someone with their certification used one).
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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Well not to mention that if you are hiking or camping you are most likely far away from immediate medical personell. Even non artery wounds that are bleeding profusely can be fatal in that scenario. But thanks for the whole long term tissue damage explanation.
Gauze and tourniquet make an excellent splint, are splints bad now too?
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Splints can be essential-- you just don't do it tight enough to cause tissue damage. Find a stick for legs or make a sling for arms is what I was taught about immobilization.
Basically, your objective is to stabilize the person until a trained EMT or doctor or nurse practitioner can tend to them. So in the case of profuse bleeding, if it is at all possible to stay with the victim, slow the bleeding as much as possible with elevation and direct pressure, treat for shock, and summon help via cell phone or radio or someone hiking the half hour to the nearest ranger station (hopefully fast enough that they get there in 20 minutes instead if that is feasible), that is the best thing to do. If you end up having to transport the victim without the aid of rescue equipment and personnel, it's likely he is going to die anyway. In that case, you can try the tourniquet, because if it works, it's better than the alternative even if limb loss is the result... I hope never to be in a position to have to use a tourniquet myself.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
haha, splints are still good. I carry a campmor emergency first aid kit with me. Usually though I have to stock different band-aids in it because they use the cloth style ones. Those don't hold up near as well as the plastic ones do.
OH! Hey, something else we used to bring with us. Duct Tape. If you have an external frame pack you can wrap a few times around the frame. Comes in handy say if your boots fall apart (which happened to one of my guys in 1993). That and duct tape has so many valuable uses. including first aid. If using internal frames, you can just wrap some around a short dowel or something. Again, for space considerations and weight, I don't recommend bringing the entire roll. For one week you shouldn't need it anyway.
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Right, to add on to what some people said: Duct tape is gold when hiking. Well, actually Cliff Bars are gold, but Duct Tape (or Duck Tape. Whatever) is pretty darn good also. I wrapped it around my water bottle.
Medically, if you have blisters and don't have anything to put on them, go with duct tape. If your knees start hurting, try wrapping a bandanna tightly around the kneecap. Someone else will likely be able to either discount that or explain it, but it worked for me.
And the zip-lock bag thing is pretty awesome too. Awesome for space saving and for keeping your clothes away from nasty stuff.
Oh, and a word of caution: One friend of mine dehydrated his food and then kept his citronella lotion right next to that food. Somehow the citronella made its way into dehydrated beans. Yeah. Not good.
Actually, it was great for me because I was dangerously low on food, so they gave the beans to me. As I ended up literally running out of food, that free dinner saved me a lot of pain. But, its if possible, avoid flavoring your food with anything unintentional.
Oh, and I wouldn't recommend dehydrating your food if you're anticipating water scarcity.
Posts: 2827 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Thanks all. I was also told in my first aid course that tourniquets (constrictive bandages) were a last resort, but we were still taught how to do it. In cases of severe bleeding, shark attacks, amputations. We were instructed to write a 'T' on the victim's forehead and note the time we applied the bandage.
Good point on the space blanket ricree101. The one in my kit practically fits in my wallet. It's definitely coming with me.
I'd be glad to hear some of your hiking-in recipes ketchupqueen.
Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006
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I also had HiTec hiking boots, and they lasted forever. Excellent excellent boot, durable as all heck, and comfortable. My brother, who works construction, switched over to using them for work because they lasted longer for him than work boots did.
Make sure you wear the boots in before you go hiking. What I did was soak the boots in water, put them on with socks, and wear them until they were dry. They ended up being perfectly molded to my feet after that one day. No days and days and days of wearing them in.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Okay... So after a long discussion my camping plans were hijacked. We are now spending about a week up in Northern NSW, sleeping in a walker's hut with the bare amenities. It should be fun though.
Thanks for the tips everyone. They will come in handy in the future.
Posts: 1762 | Registered: Apr 2006
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The biggest concern where I hike is the bears. So have plenty of nylon rope along as well. Most likely bearlines won't be installed where you are camping (most places don't have them). So you may have to suffice with finding a long branch of a tree. String it up (the bag) before you cash in for the night. Critters have all sorts of stuff they can eat without having to eat your food. Your trash (in the bags you use) will also go in here.![[Confused]](confused.gif)
