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While he did a lot of horrible things, and I have very little regret at his passing, Saddam was still a human being. I don't believe a human life should ever be taken lightly. I will not mourn his death, but it does us a disservice to mock it.
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Yeah! That was faster then Death Row in Texas. I hope South Park jumps on that, they have had him in hell for years...Anybody got a video link yet?
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I have not decided whether I approve of the sentence or not. However, I will say that I'm slightly frustrated that I came home to find it had already happened. Only this morning they were talking on the news about how it must be carried out within 30 days. Most of us were probably not expecting TONIGHT.
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Wow, that was...fast to say the least. It only seems like only a few days ago we talking about him being convicted.
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It had to happen before noon Saturday local time or it would have had to have been delayed. Their law prohibits executions during holidays, and Eid Al-Adha is about to start.
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Grow up, if you cannot open your heart to the fact that justice requires blood then you are a child. He was a mass murderer, if he was a cattle thief a century ago he would have hung, what has happened to our country that we doff hats and hang heads for the Mussolini of our time. He is dead and now like the children of the abusive father that might come home who dare not break his rules the Iraqi's can finally embrace change. I am hopeful for what this bodes, he is gone, we cannot imagine what this means for them.
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Somehow, Sax, I am of the opinion that we can be better than the criminals we condemn. Our humanity is most fully displayed in our treatment of those who don't deserve it. You are the child, not I.
Regardless of the justice of the sentence, it is inappropriate to joke. So please, go away.
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quote:Originally posted by General Sax: Grow up, if you cannot open your heart to the fact that justice requires blood then you are a child.
Regardless of whether one agrees with this sentiment, only a child would caper at a death of any sort. Justice, even grim justice, can be done without this.
quote:He was a mass murderer, if he was a cattle thief a century ago he would have hung, what has happened to our country that we doff hats and hang heads for the Mussolini of our time.
Refraining from making squawking monkey faces is not the same as doffing a hat. Surely you know this.
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It's ridiculous to have death as a penalty because we ALL die eventually. Saddamm should have sat through the rest of his trials. That would be worse than death for any real human being.
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I think simple hanging was letting him off too easy. He should've had to endure some of the same tortures he put other people through.
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quote:Originally posted by Eaquae Legit: Somehow, Sax, I am of the opinion that we can be better than the criminals we condemn. Our humanity is most fully displayed in our treatment of those who don't deserve it. You are the child, not I.
Regardless of the justice of the sentence, it is inappropriate to joke. So please, go away.
While I generally agree with you on the fact that mostly anyone can be changed for the better, some people are lost enough where it just becomes a waste of time to try and fix them. Best to just throw them out and let someone better take their place. No one would have let him do anything with his life even if he did miraculously realize the seriousness of all his crimes and regretted them.
On another note, Saddam hasnt had enough of a following recently to be martyr like radical leaders are, has he?
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"I think simple hanging was letting him off too easy. He should've had to endure some of the same tortures he put other people through."
"It's ridiculous to have death as a penalty because we ALL die eventually. Saddamm should have sat through the rest of his trials. That would be worse than death for any real human being."
I don't understand these thoughts. To me, the importance of this death penalty isn't to teach Saddam a lesson. It's to get rid of him from this world. As Will B said, the world is now a slightly better place without him in it. That was the point in all of that, IMO. Torturing him further wouldn't do anything else except satisfy our sadistic sides. But I agree that the death penalty shouldn't be too humane because it's also good to try to discourage future criminals ("See? This is what happens to bad men. They get hung. And people are happy about it." ), but torturing him wouldn't really help the world any more than just killing him would, IMO.
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quote:On another note, Saddam hasnt had enough of a following recently to be martyr like radical leaders are, has he?
*nod* As I understand it, even among the Iraqi Sunni insurgents there aren't (weren't) many fighting in his name. And of course, the Shi'a and Kurds were never too fond of him.
I'm pretty sure I know what TIME's next cover will look like.
quote:Originally posted by Eaquae Legit: Somehow, Sax, I am of the opinion that we can be better than the criminals we condemn. Our humanity is most fully displayed in our treatment of those who don't deserve it. You are the child, not I.
Regardless of the justice of the sentence, it is inappropriate to joke. So please, go away.
While I generally agree with you on the fact that mostly anyone can be changed for the better, some people are lost enough where it just becomes a waste of time to try and fix them. Best to just throw them out and let someone better take their place. No one would have let him do anything with his life even if he did miraculously realize the seriousness of all his crimes and regretted them.
I didn't hold out much hope for a change of heart, and I agree he deserved to be punished. I just don't think that killing him was right, no matter what he deserved. Life imprisonment would have been fine.
****
Gaal, the problem with that is that the death penalty isn't a deterrant. If it were, you might have a case, though I think megalomaniacal dictators would do what they do anyway in the confidence of never getting caught and tried for it.
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General Sax -- as someone who is in favor of the death penalty and who does not what others to thing that all people with this view are cretins, I ask you to please stop talking.
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For the record, porter, I'm happy to respectfully disagree with such a person. I'm sorry if you got the impression I think everyone who is in favour of the death penalty is a cretin. I didn't mean to sound like that.
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I'm undecided on the death penalty. While I consider any form of violence outside of self-defence to be immortal, I also find it grossly immoral (immoral, not just economically inefficient) to take taxes from law-abiding citizens and use it to clothe, feed and guard prisoners.
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In that case, Euripides, what form of criminal system do you favour? Fines paid to the victim, perhaps?
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quote:Grow up, if you cannot open your heart to the fact that justice requires blood then you are a child.
We are all children, including most definitely you.
My opinion is that it is sad when ANY child dies - but especially sad when he dies because other children are so foolish to think that they understand justice well enough to sacrifice lives in its name. Saddam killed many children for precisely that reason. Now we kill Saddam for the same reason. Somewhere out there some terrorist is now plotting to kill us for that same reason too. We all think we know what justice demands, but all it ends up amounting to is a bunch of children getting killed.
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Wow I was going to go to bed but I think I will stay up and post on the principle of free speech. As one who has fought and risked his life for your right to speak, I think I will retain mine.
Oh what is the Hatrack policy on links to execution video, is that like porn?
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quote:Originally posted by General Sax: As one who has fought and risked his life for your right to speak, I think I will retain mine.
My grandfathers and my uncles fought for my right to speak. I'm not so sure you have. Regardless, you are free to speak, just as I am free to ask you to go elsewhere if you can't speak with a bit of decency.
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quote: My opinion is that it is sad when ANY child dies - but especially sad when he dies because other children are so foolish to think that they understand justice well enough to sacrifice lives in its name.
Since none of us are God, your statement that we are all 'children' is silly, relative to what? Some are responsible some are cruel, there is right and wrong that humans not only can but must judge. If for no other reason then the cruelty of letting a man live in captivity, depriving him of his right to freedom or judgment. Saddam had time to ask God for forgiveness, that is all the time he needed before facing the real judge. All mistakes are sorted out by the real judge, but some people just cannot be kept around to clutter up the awareness of those they hurt. In the end we police ourselves because God does not see the need to, and this is as it should be, God is not our janitor, he is our Creator.
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quote:Originally posted by General Sax: Yeah! That was faster then Death Row in Texas. I hope South Park jumps on that, they have had him in hell for years...Anybody got a video link yet?
Are you...insane?
quote:Originally posted by General Sax: No point in procrastinating.
True that...
quote:Originally posted by Tara: It's ridiculous to have death as a penalty because we ALL die eventually. Saddamm should have sat through the rest of his trials. That would be worse than death for any real human being.
That would also be too expensive.
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Some less so then others, and the difference is meaningful in that it makes a difference to us. We have wise men and we have villians. We have all of history to teach us when a man needs to be removed from our company and we must do the best we can. Sometimes we are so right that it makes one happy to see justice happen.
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What happens when we stretch human life expectancy to hundreds of years? Will Europe and Canada offer free longevity treatment to its lifetime prisoners or will that be cruel and unusual?
Just one of the cruel ironies of not executing a man. The film is coming out soon, who has the sack to show it do you think? How much of it and where? I bet CNN shows all but the drop. I wonder if his last words were a code? A single proper name unknown to people seems odd especially without all the three or four names that should go with any Muslim ID. It was not his wife's name was it? surely someone would have noticed that...
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I'm going to have to agree with Sax on this one. By the way, I WILL watch Saddam being executed, not because I'm sick, or because I'm evil, but simply because to me it's justice. And that may not be you're opinion, and you may not like it, but I ask you to respect it.
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In that case, Euripides, what form of criminal system do you favour? Fines paid to the victim, perhaps?
No, that wouldn't provide protection against repeat offenders. Ideally, I would like to see criminals jailed at a correctional facility and pay for their stay afterwards, to return the money to the taxpayers. The money would have to come from taxes in the first place, but I can see no alternative to picking the lesser of two evils (condoning crime or taking taxes to fund jails).
But I realise that doesn't work in all situations, so hence my indecision regarding life sentences and the death penalty.
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), but torturing him wouldn't really help the world any more than just killing him would, IMO.
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