posted
Gyah! Dammit, I just read a spoiler while I was flipping through trying to see a response to what I'd typed before. I'm boycotting this thread until I read the most recent book. I'll be back here in a couple weeks.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I found myself actually starting to care a bit about what is going on with the Mandalorians, but I don't care at all about Boba Fett's personal life. It's wasted air considering how many more interesting characters there are to focus on. But the reformation of Mandalore is actually starting to look kind of interesting, if not a little limited in scope.
I'm extremely surprised that none of them suspected Jacen in Mara's death, and I also can't believe that Mara didn't go non-corporeal, even if the last and only thing she did was to appear before Luke to inform him of her real killer. The Jedi, politically and influentially, are beyond marginalized I think. They don't do anything, and have no influence anymore with the government. Luke is fumbling and has no idea what is going on, and Ben is only now starting to really figure out how things work.
I'm interested in what happens in the next book, and I found Mara's death to be passable, and believable, sad as I was to see her go, she was, next to Corran, my favorite EU character. After how Jacen responded to his parent's in the last book, his listless feelings on killing her don't surprise me at all, but I find the duality between how he feels towards his family and how he feels towards Tenal Ka and Allana a bit jarring. He isn't emotionless, he's just very selective.
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quote:I find the duality between how he feels towards his family and how he feels towards Tenal Ka and Allana a bit jarring. He isn't emotionless, he's just very selective.
Bear in mind that he's already accepted that he'll probably have to kill Tenel Ka someday.
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quote:Bear in mind that he's already accepted that he'll probably have to kill Tenel Ka someday.
You think so? Hmmm. I had gotten the impression that he was relieved that his 'sacrifice' (if you want to call it that) was Ben's love and respect for him by killing his mother. As much as Travis tried, that intangible was not nearly as painful as a full on calculated cold-blooded killing of someone he truly loved (in the vein of Neilani, which I honestly thought it was going. Would be on a par with Anakin's entering the Jedi temple and the younglings asking him what's going on, and he ignites his lightsaber. Just...so very cold.)
And the fact that he SEEMS to have gained new sith abilities (such as jedi battle coordination) seems to indicate that this was, in fact, the sacrifice necessary to set him on his path.
He may kill Tenel Ka, but only if she figures out he had something to do with it.
And it is kind of wierd for Mara to die corporeally so as to leave clues when she could have just appeared to Luke, told him she loved him, and what Jacen had become a sith lord. Kinda easier than expecting, CSI: Jedi Temple to figure it out (unless that series is branching out into space-fantasy novels)
BTW, Tom, am still curious about your thoughts on that short story. Thanks.
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posted
You know, that brings up another point: why on Earth is "Jedi Battle Coordination" a power bestowed upon Sithlords only?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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got me. seems stupid. Personal opinion is that they took what Zahn created (in Heir to the Empire) and attributed to the Emperor (mental coordination of all his forces) and made it an instantly aquirable skill, rather than one that took effort to create. You might remember CBaoth somewhat straining when he did as much in The Last Command.
But given it is merely a force created meld of non-force users mediated (and perhaps directed) by a master, it doesnt seem to be only something a sith lord should do (though, again, it should not be simply a skill you achieve when you receive that sith mantle, as if it were easy or something). I suppose, though, that if battle meditation were a light form of control (akin to what C'Baoth tried to do that officer who conducted him to Wayland- remaking his mind- only to a much lesser degree), then it might be something the JEdi, as 'ethical' beings eschewed.
Posts: 1346 | Registered: Jun 1999
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quote:Bear in mind that he's already accepted that he'll probably have to kill Tenel Ka someday.
Hmmm. I read it a bit differently than you do. I think he's accepted the possibility that he might have to kill her someday-another layer of uncertainty between the idea and the act, really-but he seems to fight tooth and nail to keep that as far away as he can. However, as of Sacrifice, he seems to have accepted that Telen Ka will certainly hate him bitterly one day in the future. But he's already crossed the 'hated by family' bridge.
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As for why that particular force ability would be Sith Lord only...well, given their heavy emphasis on control and domination and power, it does fit them pretty well. Whether or not a Jedi Master could do it is less important than whether one would.
Finally, I'm not yet convinced that Jacen has made his sacrifice...or that Lumiya had the whole story. Really, now there's only one thing that could possibly have the whole story, and that's the Sith ship. Bear in mind, Lumiya's tutelage was itself incomplete...unless you took her word for it.
quote:And it is kind of wierd for Mara to die corporeally so as to leave clues when she could have just appeared to Luke, told him she loved him, and what Jacen had become a sith lord. Kinda easier than expecting, CSI: Jedi Temple to figure it out (unless that series is branching out into space-fantasy novels)
Heh, I hadn't thought of that. On the other hand, in canon wasn't this particular ability (appearing as a blue-blurry ghost) designated as a special ability of those who focus on the Living Force that Qui-Gonn specialized in?
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posted
Frankly I don't think all of the EU jives when it comes to the non-corporeal thing. Anakin, who I think probably knew more of the Living Force than most any of the New Jedi didn't go ghosty on them. But that Twi'lek who died on Ithor when the Vong were attacking disappeard from her bed ghost style, and she was only a Knight, and not only that, I think she was heavily brushed with the dark side, and not to Anakin's level of Force understanding.
And they specifically said in Sacrifice that Mara had chosen not to go non-corporeal, but frankly I think it was a dumb choice, if that is what she did. She could have said goodbye, and imparted valuable knowledge. As one of the top two or three Jedi Masters in the galaxy, I can't imagine it wasn't an option for her.
As for Jacen and Tenel Ka, I don't think he is at all willing to kill her, or at least, he certainly isn't willing to kill Allana. I think he's made it clear there.
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quote:Heh, I hadn't thought of that. On the other hand, in canon wasn't this particular ability (appearing as a blue-blurry ghost) designated as a special ability of those who focus on the Living Force that Qui-Gonn specialized in?
Anakin Skywalker seemed to learn how to do it in mere minutes after his battle with Luke, as demonstrated in the final scene in Return of the Jedi. Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
In looking at the wookiepedia, i was reminded that the sith tassles were made by Lumiya to entice and instruct Jacen. That fact makes the 'prophecy' much more suspect, more like a self-fulfilling thing, rather than some external, will of the force, kind of thing.
That makes the subsequent books and character attitudes toward that prophecy rather strange. It'd be like me making up a prophecy about someone else and then wondering about how they would fulfil it. Who am I?
Posts: 1346 | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Should we be using spoiler warnings for "Sacrifice"? Ah well, it's a bit late to start now.
My only problem with Mara's death and the events surrounding it is that Traviss, and I assume the other authors as well, are going out of their way to make the characters stupid just to stretch out the suspense of Jacen coming out as a Sith. Ben hears him talking to Lumiya and confessing everything. This is a BIG deal! But he decides not to tell Luke for no good reason. Instead he tells his mom... who also decides not to tell Luke for no good reason. In fact, Mara Jade, who is known for nothing if not her intelligence, survival skills, and pragmatism, decides not to share this vital information with anyone before she goes on an incredibly dangerous mission all by herself. So of course she dies, and Ben can't reach the obvious conclusion that if Lumiya didn't kill her then Jecen is the prime suspect. In fact, he STILL doesn't think it's worth mentioning that Jacen was Lumiya's apprentice! He knows that Jacen has messed with his memory before, and he knows that he's the only living person who can expose him. Why hasn't he told anyone?!
It always makes me so frustrated when the good guys in a story could get to the bottom of things in 2 seconds if they just talked to each other.
As for Mara leaving her body behind, she was primarily concerned with leaving forensic evidence behind. Sure, her Force ghost could have told Luke that Jacen killed her, but would a ghostly manifestation that presumably only jedi can see hold up as evidence in a trial? Of course, there's the fact that Qui-gon Jinn left his body behind but still managed to communicate with Yoda after death. The truth is that I don't think that EU authors really know how to handle the whole jedi ghost thing so they leave it alone for the most part.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
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That is a good point, neo-dragon. I guess forensic proof is necessary (though Jedi before haven't always acted like they needed proof for others, just themselves.)
And lack of communication among good guys is, bar none, the most irritating thing about many stories. I bet this series could be cut in half if people actually TOLD what they knew to those they admitedly trust. I honestly think they said, 'ok, Jacen starts on his path in book 1, takes an irrevocable step towards the sith and takes a name in book 4 (half-way point), and then we have 2 books before everyone else figures it out and everything comes to a head in the last 2 books.
Watch for Ben to be largely MIA (off on some personal quest or something) in the next book- artificially to keep him away from Luke and revealing about Jacen- with the focus largely on Luke, his grief, and its effect on the Jedi. Oh, and the mandos will once again be MIA (aside from, perhaps, a mention of their new ships.)
Posts: 1346 | Registered: Jun 1999
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quote:As for Mara leaving her body behind, she was primarily concerned with leaving forensic evidence behind. Sure, her Force ghost could have told Luke that Jacen killed her, but would a ghostly manifestation that presumably only jedi can see hold up as evidence in a trial? Of course, there's the fact that Qui-gon Jinn left his body behind but still managed to communicate with Yoda after death.
Oh come on, none of them are that naive. They knew how these Jedi thing go. None of them ever come willingly, especially Sith who want to change the galaxy. Evidence? Courts? What does that have to do with anything? When it comes down to it, it's good hunting and a fully charged lightsaber, he won't be coming quietly.
quote:Watch for Ben to be largely MIA (off on some personal quest or something) in the next book- artificially to keep him away from Luke and revealing about Jacen- with the focus largely on Luke, his grief, and its effect on the Jedi. Oh, and the mandos will once again be MIA (aside from, perhaps, a mention of their new ships.)
I think we'll get a fair bit of Ben/Luke bonding in the next book, but I think Ben will be a prominant force in the book after next, if the cover of the book and the title are any indication.
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posted
The only conceivable reason I can think of for MARA of all people to be remotely concerned with a trial would be Jacen's growing power in civilian authority circles.
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posted
Even in "Revenge of the Sith" the Jedi needed a legal reason to arrest Palpatine (his failure to relinquish his emergency powers even after Grievous was confirmed dead and the war was effectively over) rather than just the fact that he was a Sith lord. Jacen has considerable political, military, and popular influence. The jedi can't just declare that they have proof that he's a killer and haul him into the temple kicking and screaming. No, he won't come quietly regardless, which is all the more reason why the jedi will need the authorities and the public to see that they are working within the law. Otherwise, the next thing you know Jacen would claim that the Jedi tried to assassinate him to take over the government and inform GAG that every single Jedi is now an enemy of the Galactic Alliance...
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Slightly off topic, but I have to again strongly recommend The Secret History of Star Wars. Both intelligent fans and critics of the films will appreciate this well researched book. In many ways, it is a 'textual criticism' of the movies using hundreds of old interviews, scripts, and deleted scenes. Ultimately, one can clearly see all the seams of what became The Tragedy of Darth Vader, which it wasn't originally supposed to be. And how Empire Strikes Back was the pivotal film that both gave us Darth Vader=Father Skywalker and thus birthing the prequels and, ultimately due its profoundly grouling filming, killed the planned sequel trilogy forever.
Seriously, after reading it, I can appreciate it all in a whole new way. Along the way, while very critical of Lucas' deliberate obscuring of the facts and acting as if he had it all planned out from the beginning (revisionist history), I found myself appreciating the humanity of Lucas all the more.
I cannot recommend this book more highly to both fans and those who are more critical of the series for literary and continuity reasons (but are still interested in the GFFA- Tom, I'm looking at you in particular.)
Posts: 1346 | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Okay... time to ressurect this topic. And let me take part in the discussion. The next Legacy book came out today (Inferno), which appears to feature Kashyyyk prominently (do the Wookiees defect to the Confederation or something?).
From the hints on the back cover, it looks like Luke is going to go Confederate because Jacen is evil and controls the government. I feel sorry for him if he indeed does that; it's like deferring to Communism because George Bush is in power. The Confederation is still a bunch of arrogant, pigheaded, spoiled fools that do as many atrocities as the GA has (considering the Confederation is younger, that means things don't look too good).
Posts: 1029 | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
I got my copy today. So far I've just read the prologue and the first chapter.
*PROLOGUE SPOILER*
I'm not sure I like the idea that flow walking can actually change events in the past ie. Tahiri getting to kiss Anakin before he died, or even the fact that people can detect flow walkers. Time travel and Star Wars just don't mix.
Good. Nice to see people talking and sharing and the Jedi not being so dense. Emotionally tiring. The hatred for Jacen Solo continues to grow in me, as well as a strong like for Ben. First glimpses of the Force Legacy Sith and an unnamed Sith Lord (Darth Krayt, in the comics, which I haven't read about except on Wookiepedia.)
Major Pet Peeve: Interesting, here, how Denning's pet characters (Salust and the Ewok- in a very short scene- and Alema Rar) play such pivotal roles in THIS plot (as well as in the other books, notably Alema). But I note that once again, the Mandos and the Fetts, who took up (wasted) half of Sacrifice, once again play no role whatsoever. Not a mention, not a scene, not one thing (oh, except for the mention of the murder of Ailyn Fett). Only serves to reinforce the artificiality of what I can only see as a Deus Ex Machina in Travis' novels that they will become. Rar, a Denning character, plays roles in all the books by Allston and Denning. She is integral to the entire storyline. The Fetts and the Mandos play no role in anything non-Travis. That screams artificial, pulled-out-of-your-nether-regions-solution. And it is frustrating to feel like you are wasting plot time on something that is like that.
Posts: 1346 | Registered: Jun 1999
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quote:Originally posted by IanO: Interesting, here, how Denning's pet characters (Salust and the Ewok- in a very short scene- and Alema Rar) play such pivotal roles in THIS plot (as well as in the other books, notably Alema). But I note that once again, the Mandos and the Fetts, who took up (wasted) half of Sacrifice, once again play no role whatsoever. Not a mention, not a scene, not one thing (oh, except for the mention of the murder of Ailyn Fett). Only serves to reinforce the artificiality of what I can only see as a Deus Ex Machina in Travis' novels that they will become. Rar, a Denning character, plays roles in all the books by Allston and Denning. She is integral to the entire storyline. The Fetts and the Mandos play no role in anything non-Travis. That screams artificial, pulled-out-of-your-nether-regions-solution. And it is frustrating to feel like you are wasting plot time on something that is like that.
I haven't really been reading the current books, but I would like to add that this is pretty much the reason that more or less the only pre-NJO books I will recommend are the ones by Zahn or Stackpole. Those guys actually went out of their way to keep using the EU characters and settings consistently across all of their books. They actually managed to make the books act like an ongoing saga rather than just a backdrop to tell their individual stories.
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posted
Wait, you're saying that Zahn and Stackpole are not guilty of pimping their pet characters in their books? Aren't they the guys who started the trend? Everything Zhan writes must heavily feature Mara and/or Thrawn, and it's always a safe bet that Corran Horn will practically be a superhero in Stackpole's works.
That's not to say that their EU work isn't good though, but every EU author I can think of who's written more than 2 novels pimps their own characters, even when they're not important.
quote:Originally posted by neo-dragon: Wait, you're saying that Zahn and Stackpole are not guilty of pimping their pet characters in their books? Aren't they the guys who started the trend? Everything Zhan writes must heavily feature Mara and/or Thrawn, and it's always a safe bet that Corran Horn will practically be a superhero in Stackpole's works.
No, they definitely pimp their own characters a lot. What I like about them is that they don't ignore other people's characters nearly as much as most of the other writers seem to do.
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posted
I suppose. It really is apparent in the LotF books though. The Denning books not only feature the Sullustan, the Ewok, Alema, and Saba more than the others, but they also manage to work in references to the Myrkr mission or the Dark Nest as frequently as possible. Allston books always feature Wedge and his family, and we all know what Traviss' "Fettish" is. Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Pimping your own characters is, as the examples given show, normal. And there's nothing wrong with that, per se. But in a singular arc-series each author, while bringing their own strengths and interests to the table. But note the balance between major and minor pet characters. A perfect example- Denning's Juun or Tarfang, or Allston's Antilles. They show up and play roles at critical times or provide a unique perspective. But they are never confused with major characters. Though they will no doubt play some role in the final book, I have no doubt that it will be minor. Contrast that with Alema Rar, a pet of Denning, but still critical to the entire arc. She plays aa role in each book. She is acknowledged and used, even minorly. Her importance is major and she will have a big role at the end. This is logical. (contrast with Aurra Sing, who may show up but only to play a minor role.)
Travis, though, makes the Mandos/Fetts half the book. She makes half the story to be about them. Their importance is elevated (as it was in book 2, when it was conceivable that this series was partly about them). But each book they DON'T appear in demonstrates how little importance the other authors place on them. In fact, knowing Denning is writing 9, I'm sure they won't play much a role, now that I think about it. At most, they will play a very minor role. So why do we waste time on bit characters? It'd be like spending half of Ender's Game on Graff and his familiy. He plays a big role. But he doesn't (and certainly his presumed family wouldn't) warrant that much of the plot. But that is what Travis does.
I find it pathetic.
Posts: 1346 | Registered: Jun 1999
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I stopped reading halfway through the NJO and never finished the last Dark Nest. I think I read the first Legacy book.
I'm happy enough reading spoilers. Even in the Bantam era I didn't care about what happened to Lando or Wedge. I just cared about Luke, Leia, Han (and their kids). If I hadn't been 10 when I'd read all the Young Jedi Knights books simultaneously with the Bantam books, I probably wouldn't care about the kids either. I actually skim read the Thrawn books when I was younger because I didn't find Thrawn interesting enough to read about and pay attention to.
The new books have so many random Jedi knights that seem to have appeared from some of the books I didn't read that I don't know their histories enough to care, and it just annoys me.
Sacrifice screamed, "Buy me so you know who dies", but really, if I'd read the book, that's all I would care about, so I was happy to read the spoiler.
I didn't care when I heard they killed Mara. Zahn pimped her our way too much. Besides, I had a lot of trouble buying the fact that the emperor would have his own force user trained. I buy it a little more than the idea of him having a kid with three eyes.
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Travis, though, makes the Mandos/Fetts half the book. She makes half the story to be about them. Their importance is elevated (as it was in book 2, when it was conceivable that this series was partly about them). But each book they DON'T appear in demonstrates how little importance the other authors place on them. In fact, knowing Denning is writing 9, I'm sure they won't play much a role, now that I think about it. At most, they will play a very minor role. So why do we waste time on bit characters? It'd be like spending half of Ender's Game on Graff and his familiy. He plays a big role. But he doesn't (and certainly his presumed family wouldn't) warrant that much of the plot. But that is what Travis does.
Agreed, 100%. I don't know why Del Rey didn't just allow her to write her own stand-alone novel about Fett and the Mandos, or maybe a series of short stories or something. Horning them into LotF is pointless.
I still think that Denning references the Myrkr mission and the Dark Nest crisis too much though.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
My last couple of posts have focused on the series as a whole because I've only just finished "Inferno". I can now give some thoughts on that book in particular.
*INFERNO SPOILERS*
It looks like Jacen has truly crossed the line and entered the realm of irredeemable super-villainy. Taking the academy hostage and burning Kashyyk (sp?) are unjustifiable. I'm glad that the authors are showing us that the dark side of the Force really does warp people's minds. I've always been against the crap that Vergere fed Jacen and the rest of the Order started to believe in the NJO era: that the dark side could be used safely if one's intentions are good. Jacen's making it quite clear that it doesn't matter what one's intentions are. If you give in to the dark side, you're just going to end up like Palpatine. Even he thought that he was giving the galaxy order and peace. Jacen's totally lost sight of the fact that his brutal methods are actually escalating war, not ending it.
And then there's Ben. It's hard for me to decide how I feel about Ben. I was mad at his stupidity when he was Jacen's lapdog, but even now that he sees Jacen for what he is, I still don't like how he's handling it. He's becoming even worse than Jacen. He's prepared to sacrifice innocent lives just for revenge. At least Jacen thinks his own transgressions are in the name of galactic peace. It's starting to look like Ben, at just 14 years old, is going to break the Skywalker/Solo family record for fastest dark side fall. I know it's not his fault though. Look at what this kid has been put through! If anything, I blame Luke and Mara for being such horrible parents and deciding that it wasn't their place to make decisions for their 13-14 year old son.
Anyway, I think that "Inferno" is easily one of the best books in the series so far. "Tempest", "Exile", and "Sacrifice" had a bit too much filler and it was starting to feel like the story wasn't going anywhere. "Inferno" got things back on track.
By the way, are Kam and Tionne dead? Denning kinda ended the incident on Ossus rather abruptly. I assume that Tionne is alive and just lost a couple of limbs, but if Kam is actually dead I think he should have gotten a bit more than just a passing reference.
posted
having never liked Jacen (he was always a self righteous arrogant jerk) it is somewhat amusing to know how Vergere and Lumiya played him. They appealed to his ambition and delusional need to always be right and fed him a pathetic Sith accountant (Vectivus- and weren't Alemas thoughts on him hilarious) as an example, and he bought it. Hook line and sinker. He's nothing but a stalking horse for the Korriban One Sith. So very sad.
Posts: 1346 | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Ever since Bloodlines, I've been hypothesizing that it will turn out that it was really Luke and Mara that had turned to the dark side, in a different way from the paths Jacen and Ben are taking.
The Korriban stuff is over the top, but I suppose it justifies the loads of new Sith that those stupid Legacy comics are introducing.
During the tail end of Sacrifice, I got the notion that Mara really was starting to act out of vengeance and deferring to her old Emperor's Hand ideologies. Judging Jacen, a family member who honestly believes he's doing the right thing, as an irredeemable Sith who must be destroyed is hypocrisy. It's the exact same logic Jacen used when he made the decision to fire on his parents.
Luke is being even worse. When some say Luke wasn't becoming suspicious of Jacen quick enough, I think he was being far too judgmental.
Ben seems to actually be the most rational character in the entirety of Legacy of the Force. Recently, yes, he has been using his logic and reasoning skills to justify his personal feelings and what they call for, which is in itself the dark side. However, instead of being overly proud of his status, his assumptions (or his "destiny"), like his parents and Jacen, he is still a person who will not act until he knows all the facts, and will act in very astonishing ways to get the facts. This is what makes Ben the most mature of any of his mentors or guardians.
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I don't buy Tahiri's turning. She used to firmly be on the side of Leia and Han, and I find it hard to believe that she'd turn to Jacen and become a lapdog just for a hand out of Anakin-visions, which apparently has the same hold on her that drugs would on a normal person (which I find even harder to believe given her history). I don't like her character at all anymore.
I'm ridiculously sick of the Alema Rar storyline. For the love of God just kill her and be done with it. Korriban and the Sith are over the top, I agree, just be done with it. The Mandalorians should be in a separate series unless they can establish any sort of relevance to what is going on now. I thought the last book did that, but then no follow up.
I think it's clear that Kam is dead, and I'd imagine if Tionne isn't, she's at least crippled with none or few limbs. I found their deaths to be rather useless and fairly unceremonious. Killing Mara to spur the sorts of emotional changes we've seen is one thing, but killing the two of them just for the heck of it? Meh, doesn't really jive with me.
I find it extremely hard to believe that the people on those ships and the people of the Alliance in general are stupid enough to go along with his brutality without making the obvious links to Palpatine.
I like that Luke finally managed to pull his head out of the black hole it was sucked into and went postal on Jacen. He really seemed to be back in control of the Jedi in that book, at least until the end. I was REALLY getting sick of confused topsy turvy Luke.
Much as I thought this was a very active book that moved some characters in good directions, I found myself strangely not super excited about where the series goes. And I agree with comments others made about the characters the authors use in the books, they even admitted to a bias in the interview that was in the back of the book.
I think Zahn and Stackpole were a bit better at it. Stackpole based the point of view of his books largely around Horn, but he did a very good job of covering everyone else around him. Zahn, I thought, also did a great job of covering the non-Mara characters in his stories.
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quote:I find it extremely hard to believe that the people on those ships and the people of the Alliance in general are stupid enough to go along with his brutality without making the obvious links to Palpatine.
I find this a very telling point. Then again, most people (especially the voting public) never pay much attention to history. Or they think that this situation is unique and that this time ('this time' they say with such naivete) it'll be different. And remember, for most people (those not on the radar- aliens, rebels, and anyone caught or thought to be doing something the government didnt like) life under the empire wasn't all that much different from life under the alliance. Add in all the wars and the pathetic UN-like weakness of the alliance, and they might look back a bit wistfully on the imposed 'stability' of the empire. Heck, some people in Russia do that now regarding Communism.
Posts: 1346 | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Yes, you have to remember that the days of Palpatine may not seem that long ago for us fans, but for the characters, it was almost 40 years ago. Many of the officers serving under Jacen wouldn't even have been born when the Empire was at its worst. I think that that's part of the reason why characters like Ben can spout off that "was the Empire really so bad for regular people?" crap like he did a few books ago. Sometimes you have to live through something to really get it.
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I think it's clear that Kam is dead, and I'd imagine if Tionne isn't, she's at least crippled with none or few limbs.
If Tionne is alive, missing limbs shouldn't be too big a problem considering how sophisticated their prosthetics are.
And...
quote:Originally posted by Lyrhawn: I'm ridiculously sick of the Alema Rar storyline. For the love of God just kill her and be done with it. Korriban and the Sith are over the top, I agree, just be done with it.
I think they're trying to establish more solid links between the LotF books, and the Legacy comics that take place almost 100 years later. In the comics, it's revealed that there's been a Sith order in hiding since the time of the Yuuzhan Vong war.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
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posted
Yes. But the comics suck. And always have. They should be treated as their own, special continuity, perhaps the "SWUckiverse," where all truly sucky Star Wars ideas go to die.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by neo-dragon: Yes, you have to remember that the days of Palpatine may not seem that long ago for us fans, but for the characters, it was almost 40 years ago. Many of the officers serving under Jacen wouldn't even have been born when the Empire was at its worst. I think that that's part of the reason why characters like Ben can spout off that "was the Empire really so bad for regular people?" crap like he did a few books ago. Sometimes you have to live through something to really get it.
My guess would be a large portion of the senior ranks were young kids fighting the Empire 40 years ago. People like Gavin Darklighter know exactly what they are up against. Besides, the ONLY people who flourished under the Empire were male humans. Women and aliens of all kinds were repressed, so what stability are they looking back on wistfully? That's like, and I mean this quite literally no matter how bad it's going to sound, but it's like Jews looking back on WWII and saying, "well gee, at least under Hitler Germany was strong." It makes no sense. Sure the Empire was powerful, and stable, but that came at a ridiculously bloody price. As soon as Kashyyk burned it should have been a giant wake up call. I can easily see how they'd be willing to look the other way with the terrorists and a few dead Bothans, but this is different, this is Death Star territory.
And for people who have holographic technology and who are pretty good at keeping history alive when someone isn't intentionally out to destroy it, I find it hard that there aren't people out there making the obvious allusions. I bought it up until Kashyyk, but that's too much.
Good point about Tionne, if she survived, I'd imagine she does have prosthetics.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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Truth is, Lyrhawn, that bothered me too. The fact that NO ONE in the government or media is talking about the similarities to Palpy's rise. We even have a word for it, Godwin's Law, when the rise of Hitler is invoked in a discussion on the internet. Of course, they have been nearly continuously at war for the past 40 years. But you'd think pundits or political makeriks, the John McCains, Howard Deans, Dennis Kuciniches or Jon Stewarts who live in that universe would have a field day.
So, yeah, it bothered me. Glad that the Jedi, at least, pulled their heads out and dropped Jacen quickely and clearly, instead of all the hand-wringing that we had begun to see.
Posts: 1346 | Registered: Jun 1999
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The thing is, once Jacen decides to burn Kashyyyk's forests, it is very clear that his subordinates are less certain of Jacen. In fact, by the time they get cornered by the Bothans, it seems clear that pretty much the whole fleet thinks Jacen is a rotten evil bad guy.
The Legacy of the Force series isn't told from a common man's point of view; it's told from the point of view of the Jedi (light and dark) and of Jacen. Both of them have firsthand knowledge of what's going on (at least in general) and are independent on the media's commentary.
I find it very likely that EVERYONE has heard some kind of speculation by the media, but it has either been dismissed as speculation, or is unpatriotic (considering the Galaxy has been at war for the last few decades, I'm sure people have been driven to cling close to the establishment and support it, as the surge in national pride peaked during World War II and has since dwindled). Those who are genuinely suspicious of Jacen and his political affiliates just use it as just another reason to join the Corellian Confederation, which a whole bunch of systems think is "cool" now.
Posts: 1029 | Registered: Apr 2007
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One thing we need to remember when discussing how the galaxy seems to be viewing Jacen Solo's behavior is that for 20+ years, he's been considered a top-tier hero. We can make all the comparisons to Hitler and other despots that we like, but Hitler was a nobody before he entered the world of politics. I can't really think of a real-world analogue to any of the main Jedi or political figures in the Skywalker and Solo families.
Also, let's not forget that Jacen is lauded as the one person most responsible for ending the most hurtful war in the galaxy's history, and that happened a helluva lot more recently than did the Empire's New Order. I can imagine that Jacen would have vast pull with the very people figures like McCain and Stewart in the real world typically sway, the young and the disaffected with the political system.
As for the story, I'm a bit baffled and disappointed (from a reader's perspective) by some of the decisions they're having Jacen make. I'm surprised and annoyed that they seem to be painting things as Lumiya being the one who was the master manipulator, who stopped Jacen from making over-the-top cliched villainy moves. It doesn't really fit in with his character from before, the master of concealment, patience, and deception.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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I just got "Fury" (a few days before the official release date). I have so little free time these days that It may be a while before I actually finish reading it though.
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004
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She did. She got better, theoretically anyway.
I was reading bits and pieces of Destiny's Way the other day, and I think that's where they started screwing up the different person they made Jacen Solo. The Jacen Solo talking to Ganner Rhysode in Traitor is radically different from the Jacen Solo having a fun vacation in Destiny's Way. I can't really reconcile the two, and I think if they had, many subsequent character growths would've been much better.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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In my defense, though, it is a given in this thread! *wince*
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