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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Mormons and Alcohol in Cooking (Cioppino recipe finally posted) (Page 0)

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Author Topic: Mormons and Alcohol in Cooking (Cioppino recipe finally posted)
Tante Shvester
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quote:
Originally posted by docmagik:
Most Mormon's don't go out of their way to avoid, say, NyQuil.

Well, then, the answer is obvious. Substitute NyQuil for wine in the recipe!
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Noemon
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quote:
Originally posted by Tante Shvester:
Well, then, the answer is obvious. Substitute NyQuil for wine in the recipe!

Brilliant!
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ketchupqueen
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Actually, YMMV on that one, too-- my father-in-law uses only alcohol-free medications and mouthwashes and such.
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mr_porteiro_head
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I:

Do eat food cooked in alcohol when it is offered.

Do not cook with alcohol or have it in my home

Do cook with with vanilla or imitation vanilla and have it in my home.

Do not take NyQuil or similar.

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Dead_Horse
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I probably wouldn't mind a little cooked alcohol, except I don't like the taste.

Nyquil is yucky and only a good substitute for anisette. [Big Grin]

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MightyCow
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I don't know the dietary restrictions imposed by various religions, but if it's a matter of the intoxicating effects of alcohol, sufficient cooking actually removes the alcohol, leaving only the flavor in the food.

I'm glad I don't follow any religious dietary restrictions, because so many of them seem to rule out delicious food. I'm going to go boil some brats in beer now [Smile] [Big Grin]

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Dagonee
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The meal was a big success - I will post the recipe tomorrow. I highly recommend it to anyone who loves seafood.

On the alcohol and vinegar issue - I wasn't making this up:


Molecular Biology Archive

quote:
name Adnan
status student
age 16

Question - Does Red Wine Vinegar contain alcohol after it is done
transforming, and also if it is able to intoxicate a person.

Vinegars do still contain some level of alcohol. The "vinegar" taste is
actually due to acetic acid, but the chemical transformation is never fully
complete just sitting around a kitchen. Vinegar would be much too gross to
drink in the quantity it would take to intoxicate anyone. If you're trying
to eliminate the alcohol content in your food, cook it (this is true for
wine too). Alcohol is very volatile -- that is, it boils off at pretty low
temperatures. Just remember that alcohol also has a very low flash point
-- the temperature at which it can be set on fire. So be careful if you're
using a lot!
---------
Christine Ticknor
Ph.D. Student
Yale University
New Haven, Connecticut


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quidscribis
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quote:
Originally posted by MightyCow:
I'm going to go boil some brats in beer now [Smile] [Big Grin]

Brats the irritable whiny spoiled children or brats the small dried fish? [Big Grin]
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ketchupqueen
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I think he meant brats the sausages. Bratwurst is traditionally (in some parts of America, at least) cooked in beer when it is not grilled.
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pooka
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No wonder I like red wine vinegar so much. We hadn't bought it in a while and I bought some and for a few days I was having it at every meal. It just tasted soooo good to me. Of course, I was using it to make a lot of greek recipes.

My husband likes cheesefood with the port wine swirled in it. I looked askance at that when we were first married. I once declared I couldn't imagine myself ever eating a beer brat... until one was offered to me by my husband's supervisor at a work party.

I wonder what the alcohol content of bread winds up being, especially a sourdough bread. Most people have yeast in their gut and I believe part of the wonder of eating simple carbs is that they ferment in the gut. I'm certainly not saying there's no point in avoiding alcohol, even if that's what it sounds like.

I don't avoid Nyquil. I can't imagine consuming it for pleasure. Though sometimes I wonder about my husband.

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Sterling
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I asked a similar question about a year ago. The general concensus then seemed to be that alcohol doesn't *completely* cook off as quickly as many people think. Someone had a table of cooking methods and times and % of alcohol removed, which unfortunately I don't seem to have remembered to bookmark.

ADD: And in that discussion, I think someone suggested Fresca in the place of white wine?...

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Zalmoxis
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Forgive me for my inattention, but....

When did Annie get back? Is there some official welcoming thread where I can officially welcome?

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Zalmoxis
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I haven't done any cooking with wine. There is a recipe in a recent Sunset magazine for beef ale stew with green onion dumplings that I'd like to try, though.
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dkw
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quote:
Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
I think he meant brats the sausages. Bratwurst is traditionally (in some parts of America, at least) cooked in beer when it is not grilled.

No no no -- cooked in beer and then grilled.
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ketchupqueen
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That, too. But around here, it's usually an either/or proposition.
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kmbboots
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Thanks, dkw! I was going to have to object! And kq, honey, it doesn't matter how you cook them if you ruin them by putting ketchup on them anyway. [Wink]
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BlackBlade
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I am fine with eating something that has been cooked in alcohol as for me its cooked out and will no longer harm me in any degree.

That was very courteous of you Dag to call in advance and find out. This is one of those topics where there is no official church doctrine on the issue and there could be a polarized response amongst Mormons.

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MightyCow
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If there's no grill handy, cook the bratwurst in beer, then just let the beer evaporate out (see, no alcohol left) and let the sausages brown in the pan.

If you're so inclined, you can throw in some sliced onion too for extra delicious.

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Dagonee
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I have to compile my notes to post the recipe. I will say that searing the scallops (there's no point having scallops that haven't been seared) and then deglazing the pans with the wine made for a wonderful, wonderful base to the broth.

BTW, when I cooked it, it boiled ferociously for about 5 minutes, then stopped bubbling for about a minute, then started boiling again. If I remember my 10th grade distillation lab, the first boiling was the alcohol going away at 185 or so, the second was the water boiling.

I wish I'd set up the probe thermometer to test it.

As for brats, there must be grilling or browning of some kind, and there must be beer. Also, only dark mustard on top.

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Megan
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Darn this thread, now I want brats. And my hubby doesn't like em, so when I get them it's only for me.
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Zalmoxis
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Agreed on brats.

I visited my in-laws in Wisc. last summer. I wasn't sure if I liked brats or not -- I had had one once and wasn't very impressed.

At dinner I tried one with sauerkraut and French's mustard. Didn't work for me. Tried one with ketchup. Was even worse.

But the next day for lunch I pulled out a dark, grainy mustard and had it with sauerkraut. Completely different experience. I'm a big fan now and was delighted to discover that even out here in Calif. you can sometimes get the Johnsonville party back (that's 12 brats, yo) at Costco.

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Shigosei
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Wow, this has been quite an educational thread!

quote:
If I remember my 10th grade distillation lab
The school taught you how to distill alcohol?

quote:
the first boiling was the alcohol going away at 185 or so, the second was the water boiling.
I'm sorry to say my first thought was that water boils at 100 degrees, so why would the ethanol boil first? And then I realized that I've been doing science way too long. It isn't as bad as the other day when I saw 93 on an ice cream machine readout and thought for a moment that it might be the temperature -- in Kelvin.

As an aside, regarding science and alcohol, I once bought alcohol when I was 17. Of course, I was buying it from the chemical store for the lab I worked in and it probably had benzene in it or something. Still, it's interesting that apparently it's perfectly fine for a minor to be in possession of lab ethanol for scientific purposes.

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ketchupqueen
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Lab ethanol will also kill you fairly quickly if you try to drink it like beer.
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Tante Shvester
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My high school taught us how to distill alcohol. And I suspect that Dag hasn't moved to the metric system, and that's why his alcohol is boiling at 185.

You can also freeze distill alcohol, since it has a lower freezing point than water. I've done this at home, and find it easier than steam distillation, since you just have to separate the liquid from the solid, not the gas from the solid. Capturing the gas involves all kinds of length of condensation tubing, tight seals, yadda yadda ya.

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Zalmoxis
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Excuse me but are these ice cubes non-alcoholic?
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TomDavidson
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quote:
That, too. But around here, it's usually an either/or proposition.
Egad. Boiled brats -- i.e. brats that are boiled and then NOT carmelized by frying or grilling -- are of Satan.
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quidscribis
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I don't think I've ever had brats the sausage. Huh. The way y'all are waxing poetic about them, it almost sounds like I'm missing something.
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RunningBear
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I have wanted to make very close to 200 proof alcohol as an experiment to see exactly how fast it combusts.

I hear it is almost explosive on its own.

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quidscribis
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You could also buy it - 190 proof, that is. Everclear, for example.
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Verloren
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At our monthly work parties (BAD Friday we call it, as an acronym for Burgers And Dogs), we have had Brats as well.

Since we were all LDS, someone got the idea that using a non-alcoholic beer would be OK. I don't know about doctrine or the actual alcohol content, but I do know that those were some yummy brats (not that I have ever had brats cooked in real beer to compare against).

I can hardly wait for our next BAD Friday!

-V

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The Rabbit
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quote:
Originally posted by MightyCow:
If there's no grill handy, cook the bratwurst in beer, then just let the beer evaporate out (see, no alcohol left) and let the sausages brown in the pan.

If you're so inclined, you can throw in some sliced onion too for extra delicious.

Criminal. A Bratwurst is by definition a grilled sausage. Boiling it in anything would make it a Kochwurst rather than a Bratwurst and boiling a sausage which was designed to be grilled is a crime against decent cusine.
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Primal Curve
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quote:
Originally posted by ketchupqueen:
That, too. But around here, it's usually an either/or proposition.

Since "around here" is CA, which is not in any way shape or form the bastion of Germanic heritage that WI and MN are, I'd hardly call it authoritative. I can only assume that the folks 'round your parts are wallowing in pure wurstian ignorance.
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ClaudiaTherese
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Indeed, their wurst is not the best.
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ketchupqueen
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Nope, it's just the wurst. [Razz]

I didn't say it was authoritative. I said it was done around here. [Smile]

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ketchupqueen
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(Except, of course, the wurst at the local German butcher shop, which is next to the German bakery, both owned by a real live German. The brats at the deli there are grilled, not beered. And served with a lump of bread and some kraut. And heavenly.)
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Zalmoxis
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I realize that CT was making a pun, but I just have to put in a pitch for Top Dog. The Bay Area is by no means a sausage mecca (and what is up with all the sausages with mango and the like in them? That's one part of California cuisine, I don't get -- mixing meat and fruit [I will sometimes make an exception for apples]), but Top Dog is awesome. The calabrese is to die for.
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Annie
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quote:
Of course, I've met Saints from Japan who drink green tea.
Then they're willfully flouting, because green tea (nihoncha, matcha etc.) is specifically prohibited by the church.
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Annie
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And hi, Zal! I checkd out the new motley vision... spiffy!
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ketchupqueen
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I know, Annie, but some of them came to America and were told by American Saints that green tea is okay, so that's what they think.

I've always understood it to mean any product of the tea plant.

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ketchupqueen
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(There was a Mormon family on Take Home Chef the other day and whatever his name is, the cook dude, made green tea ice cream for dessert. The woman thought that was fine. Didn't know any better, obviously. Made me want to write a clarifying e-mail to him about the Word of Wisdom, but I haven't got to it.)
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Annie
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You've always understood correctly.

Funny story:
Lunch with Sachiko at a restaurant with us and the elders. Sachiko asks, "Oolong tea? Is oolong ok for you to drink?"

Me: "Nope, sorry. Not Oolong either."

Sachiko: "Maybe I'll call and ask permission from President Hinckley. 'Just for one day,is coffee and tea OK?' It's delicious, you know."

Me: "How about asking God?"

Sachiko: nods with a wry smile

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Zalmoxis
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Thanks, Annie. It will soon be spiffier. [Smile]
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The Rabbit
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quote:
Originally posted by Annie:
quote:
Of course, I've met Saints from Japan who drink green tea.
Then they're willfully flouting, because green tea (nihoncha, matcha etc.) is specifically prohibited by the church.
Curious. In the german missionary discussion it was always clearly stated that "black tea" was prohibited but no mention was made of "green tea". A friend of mine who served in Korea said that tea was never a problem there because the green tea commonly consummed in Korea was not forbidden by the Word of Wisdom. I think this is another case of a gray area and not an example of willful flouting.
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Annie
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Maybe the definition has become more clear-cut in recent years. General authorities in Japan have specified that anything made of the tea leaf is tea.

Green tea is tea - it's naturally caffeinated. The only difference between green tea and black tea is that the black tea has been fermented.

I'm guessing any ambiguities in the past came from the fact that American church officials weren't aware of the huge variations on "tea" that existed in the orient.

There are many "teas" in Japan, however, that members drink: mugi cha (made of barley), ten cha (Yamamoto sweet tea), juuroku cha, ruibos ti (some South African something - tasty!)

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ketchupqueen
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quote:
(some South African something - tasty!)
Is that bush tea? My mom loves bush tea, you can get it in the U.S. This stuff.
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Annie
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Yeah! That's it! Oishii yo.
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ketchupqueen
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You can buy it at most grocery stores around here. [Smile]
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rivka
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I've never heard that called bush tea. Just red tea or rooibos (which I had no idea meant anything other than "red") tea. Either way it's lovely.
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ketchupqueen
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I had never heard of it, period, until my mom started reading the No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency novels and passing them on to me. [Big Grin]
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Dagonee
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I finally got around to posting my Cioppino recipe.

It's not a quick or easy meal, but it's delicious - it got rave reviews from all 6 of us at the dinner.

This is based on three different recipes from the Food Network site plus quite a bit of my own ad-libbing. Fortunately I took careful notes. The recipe begs for improvisation during cooking.

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