You sound like you are in a tough boat and doing as best you can with it. I would hope your husband could be an understanding confidant about this... I know I would want to be if I was in his situation... but I totally understand being nervous about discussing it in even the best of relationships.
posted
I'm out to my husband and to some friends, but not to the kids. I don't think it would be good for them to wonder about the stability of their parent's marriage.
Posts: 10 | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'm glad to hear you and your husband have discussed it... it speaks *very* highly of both of you that you have.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Like a lot of women in my situation, I was slow to catch on and understand my own sexuality. And I married young. But my husband is a wonderful man, and I wouldn't want to hurt him, and I do love him. So, we're staying together forever.
Posts: 10 | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Transgendered is a blanket term that includes transsexuals, crossdressers, drag queens, and pretty much anyone whose gender issues skew from the norm.
Well, in terms of "GLBT", it's probably a necessary blanket term (to avoid "GLBTgTsCdDq", but I agree it's fuzzy to the point of being almost worthless outside that context. Regardless, I am extremely skeptical of the idea that "almost all of them are bi." (Except isofar as the majority of the human population can be considered "bi" to some degree). Additionally, the term "drag queen" is a huge catch-all term, and it's almost always considered something separate from transvestitism (at least by the insiders). Many "drag queens" are in some degree of transition towards becoming women, but I imagine the vast majority of male-to-female transsexuals go through the entire transition without ever considering themselves "drag queens". Likewise, there are huge numbers of "drag queens" and dabblers in the drag scene who completely identify as gay men and aren't at all transitioning.
Posts: 6394 | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Closeted, I do know of other married couples where one is same sex attracted, and yet they're able to make the marriage work and both are happy. It may not be advertised, and I imagine it takes work, but it is possible. Good luck.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by quidscribis: Closeted, I do know of other married couples where one is same sex attracted, and yet they're able to make the marriage work and both are happy. It may not be advertised, and I imagine it takes work, but it is possible. Good luck.
I imagine a lot of that would depend on if the person was still sexually attracted to their spouse?
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Storm Saxon: I imagine a lot of that would depend on if the person was still sexually attracted to their spouse?
I could see this taking a back seat to some other things.
I don't know...they say that when sex is good it's about 10% of a relationship and when it's bad, it's about 90%.
TMI warning....a while back I had some problems that caused sex to be painful for me. This went on for a long time because it took 4 doctors to finally correctly diagnose and treat me. My husband tried to be understanding but it definitely was negatively impacting things. I'm so glad I finally found a doctor to take me seriously. If this had been a permanent problem with no solution (ie I was not sexually attracted to men), I'm not sure our relationship could have survived. Then again, every relationship is different.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
It also depends on how important sex is to both parties. Some people have low sex drives. Especially as they get older.
If sex drive IS an issue, it could depend on if the les/gay partner is grossed out by the opposite sex or just finds the same sex much more appealing. Maybe they could still function with their MOTOS spouse. I would think someone who was completely grossed out by the opposite sex would still have their Gold Star and would not marry a MOTOS partner, but I haven't taken any polls.
quote:Likewise, there are huge numbers of "drag queens" and dabblers in the drag scene who completely identify as gay men and aren't at all transitioning.
That's how I always thought of it; a drag queen being a man, straight or gay, who is dressing up as a woman for fun, whereas a transexual would be confused about their gender identity, or not confused but started out in the wrong body. Kinda like in Birdcage they're drag queens and in Priscilla Queen of the Desert they are transexual. Or, on the flip side, a woman putting on a pinstrip suit and fedora and painting a mustage would be in drag, while a woman who for all appearances looks like a male, dresses like a male, thinks of themself like as a male and is referred to as a male, would be transexual. I dunno. I'm not claiming to be correct on this or anything, just interested in the semantic differences, based both on curiosity and a desire not to offend anyone (my neighborhood has a large GLBTgTsCdDq population).
Also, I guess on a related note, when one meets a female to male transexual, but is not sure whether they actually are transexual or just have a very butch style, is it appropriate to ask? or just say 'he'? On the flip side of that one: I almost always refer to any male to female transexual/dq as 'she,' and when I'm wrong, it's always been more funny than embarrasing.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by brojack17: Closeted, If I may ask, how does intimacy work?
Well, THAT'S a personal question!
Like a lot of things in a marriage, it is a compromise. Less often than he'd like, more often than I'd like. He deserves marital relations, and it would be unfair to deny him that. It is not appealing to me, but, honestly, there are other "chores" I do as a wife that also don't appeal to me. I clean the bathroom. I wash dishes. I have marital relations. It may not be my favorite thing to do, but it doesn't do me any harm. And I try to make it nice for him, because, like I said, he deserves that.
I used to pretend to be satisfied, to make him happy, but he once asked if I ever "faked it", and when I admitted that I did, he told me that he didn't need or want that from me, so I stopped. There are things that I do get satisfaction from, physically. I enjoy the warmth and closeness of cuddling. Sometimes I'll rub his back, and pretend in my mind that it is a woman's back I'm caressing.
And for my own needs, well, I take care of that myself.
Posts: 10 | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
I'll also add that while I don't envy you guys the challenges that the situation must inevitably present to you, I absolutely respect both you and your husband's commitment to the relationship and to each other.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks, guys. I'm not unhappy. I have a wonderful family, a stable life, a caring and understanding husband. Actually, my life is pretty fulfilling. If I am not 100% fulfilled in every aspect of my life, well, I ask you, who is?
I stand by the decisions I've made. And I respect people who have made other decisions. My path is certainly not for everyone. But I think it is right for me.
Posts: 10 | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sex and sexuality is only part of intimacy. I noticed that in your answer, you gravitated towards sex (which sounds like a bit of a challenge). I hesitate to expand on this because I thought it was a pretty darn personal question in the first place. You didn't have to answer and you sure don't have to answer this, but...To me, intimacy in a marriage goes to the heart and soul of how a couple connects. Sex can be a part of that, but especially if it is not equally fulfilling and engaging to both partners, I would say sex isn't much of intimacy. How do you connect to your husband?
In my relationship, we connect a lot through talking. We are best friends and I would actually say that this friendship is the most intimate thing about our marriage. Since you were being personal, I'll go ahead and reciprocate...the sex is fine for me but I don't have a huge sex drive so I wouldn't mention it first if I were to describe how intimacy works between my husband and I. I'd say friendship...then cuddling...then sex.
Reading between the lines of your posts, it sounds like you probably have a great friendship and it's great that you can be honest with one another. I really do wish you the best and feel free to ignore my line of questioning if you think it's out of line. Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
My husband is my best friend. I love him, I admire him, and he is a hero to me. I really don't think there is a more wonderful person in the world.
We used to talk and laugh all the time. Now, we still talk, but I don't think it is our main way of connecting. Now, after kids and many years of marriage, there is a quiet intimacy. A look or a touch communicates so much more than words do. We are closely bonded, linked together so tightly that it is like we can read each other's thoughts and feelings.
We are completely honest and forthright with each other. If we weren't, I guess it would have been easy to keep my orientation a secret.
We depend on each other every day. We have love. We have intimacy. We have a deep respect for each other.
Why would my being a lesbian change that?
Posts: 10 | Registered: Mar 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Closeted: Why would my being a lesbian change that?
In your case, it doesn't sound like it does. I like to say that every marriage is negotiated between the two partners and that there are a lot of different ways to make marriages work. Some couples spend a lot of time apart and come together seldom and passionately -- but it works for them. Some couples have absolutely no sex at all and live their lives together as best friends -- and that works for them. As long as both you and your partner have come together and accept these terms, then this is what works for you. I would say that it could easily not work for someone else -- someone who needs a sexual connection with his/her spouse to be happy -- but those people need to work through their own problems in their own ways.
Thanks for answering. I've often found that these kinds of discussions can be helpful to people who are still unsure about their own path through life.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by brojack17: Closeted, If I may ask, how does intimacy work?
Well, THAT'S a personal question!
Like a lot of things in a marriage, it is a compromise. Less often than he'd like, more often than I'd like. He deserves marital relations, and it would be unfair to deny him that. It is not appealing to me, but, honestly, there are other "chores" I do as a wife that also don't appeal to me. I clean the bathroom. I wash dishes. I have marital relations. It may not be my favorite thing to do, but it doesn't do me any harm. And I try to make it nice for him, because, like I said, he deserves that.
I used to pretend to be satisfied, to make him happy, but he once asked if I ever "faked it", and when I admitted that I did, he told me that he didn't need or want that from me, so I stopped. There are things that I do get satisfaction from, physically. I enjoy the warmth and closeness of cuddling. Sometimes I'll rub his back, and pretend in my mind that it is a woman's back I'm caressing.
And for my own needs, well, I take care of that myself.
It certainly was not my intention to offend. If the question was inappropriate, a simple "no you may not ask" would suffice.
My reason for the question is because there have been intimacy issues with my wife and myself over the past year and a half. She had mentioned how she had "experimented" with women in the past. Your post, along with some gut feelings I have had, made me think she may be struggling with the same issue.
I apologize for being so blunt with my question. Maybe next time I will send a direct e-mail, but I thought the reason we all post on forums is so we can all learn/discuss.
posted
Today I told the guy that keeps asking me out that I was gay. That was the first I'd ever told anyone...It was hard, but not as hard as I expected, cause I think I prepared myself well. (I kept repeating what I was going to say over and over and over and telling myself that I absolutely HAD TO DO IT, and that really helped).
I'm so glad I did, because now I won't have to deal with him asking me out, and his feelings aren't hurt.
He was really, really awkward about it though. Also I don't know how disappointed he is, I'll have to wait till I see him again.
Posts: 930 | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I had some girl tell me she was gay, and then a couple weeks later at a party, she was kissing some dude. :/
Posts: 13123 | Registered: Feb 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tara: Today I told the guy that keeps asking me out that I was gay. That was the first I'd ever told anyone...It was hard, but not as hard as I expected, cause I think I prepared myself well. (I kept repeating what I was going to say over and over and over and telling myself that I absolutely HAD TO DO IT, and that really helped).
I'm so glad I did, because now I won't have to deal with him asking me out, and his feelings aren't hurt.
He was really, really awkward about it though. Also I don't know how disappointed he is, I'll have to wait till I see him again.
Edit: Nevermind, for some reason at first I thought you said that he'd asked you out of the blue if you were gay, and I was like, huh?
quote:Originally posted by Closeted: My husband is my best friend. I love him, I admire him, and he is a hero to me. I really don't think there is a more wonderful person in the world.
We used to talk and laugh all the time. Now, we still talk, but I don't think it is our main way of connecting. Now, after kids and many years of marriage, there is a quiet intimacy. A look or a touch communicates so much more than words do. We are closely bonded, linked together so tightly that it is like we can read each other's thoughts and feelings.
We are completely honest and forthright with each other. If we weren't, I guess it would have been easy to keep my orientation a secret.
We depend on each other every day. We have love. We have intimacy. We have a deep respect for each other.
Why would my being a lesbian change that?
This post made me feel much more hopeful about your situation. To be frank, the one where you mentioned chores really had me concerned. But if the above is a good description of your life together, than I think it's actually quite remarkable and you are both lucky to have such a relationship.
Posts: 300 | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Closeted, you are kind of my hero. I know you're probably just a regular person making the best choices you can, but that is what's so great.
If my parents were in a situation like yours, I would hope that they would try that course. I also would hope that if i found myself in similar circumstances that my partner and I would try to make things work as a family. I believe love and families are more important than sexual gratification, and sometimes there are sacrifices like yours - but it gives me hope. To what specifically? I don't know... just in people, I suppose.
Posts: 3936 | Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I know a girl who insists she's a lesbian, but has only dated guys for the last several years. She lives in Berkeley, it's not like there are a shortage of other lesbians around Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by porcelain girl: Closeted, you are kind of my hero. I know you're probably just a regular person making the best choices you can, but that is what's so great.
If my parents were in a situation like yours, I would hope that they would try that course. I also would hope that if i found myself in similar circumstances that my partner and I would try to make things work as a family. I believe love and families are more important than sexual gratification, and sometimes there are sacrifices like yours - but it gives me hope. To what specifically? I don't know... just in people, I suppose.
While I understand what you're saying here, I feel the need to point out to you that if a relationship is really not working then it tends to be better for the family for them to split up, even if there are children. "Better to be from a broken home than a dysfunctional one" is the way I've heard it said. And while it's nice that what has worked for Closeted can work for some, "sexual gratification" as you so crassly put it is an enormous part of most mature adult relationships. I wouldn't want anyone to think that just because one person can make a marriage work without physical attraction that everyone can or should make it work that way.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Christine, "if I found myself similar circumstances" doesn't mean "in all circumstances, no matter what."
Nor did she say she desires "everyone" (with the exception of herself and her parents "if this happened") to consider following Closeted's example should they find themselves in a similar situation.
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Puffy Treat: Christine, "if I found myself similar circumstances" doesn't mean "in all circumstances, no matter what."
Nor did she say she desires "everyone" (with the exception of herself and her parents "if this happened") to consider following Closeted's example should they find themselves in a similar situation.
My biggest concern in porcelain girl's post was the very last part:
quote:I believe love and families are more important than sexual gratification, and sometimes there are sacrifices like yours - but it gives me hope. To what specifically? I don't know... just in people, I suppose.
This sentiment felt very naive to me, and is entirely the reason that I felt the need to point out that mature adult relationships aren't just a choice between love and family and sexual gratification. I don't think the question of generalizations really comes into it.
posted
Christine: But that's exactly the choice Closeted is making, and she's making the right one. This isn't an abusive situation where she's taking black eyes for the sake of staying married for the kids, she's just not getting her rocks off.
Posts: 7085 | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Where did she say mature adult relationships are "just a choice between love and family and sexual gratification"?
Where does she say she feels that "everyone" should feel the way she does?
Seems like some generalizations are being made here here, because you're filling in what she "must also think" based on one specific opinion.
Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think that what Christine is writing - at least what I am reading - is that, for some people, sex is not about sexual gratification. It can be, not for everyone, a necessary way to connect intimately with your partner. If that connection is out of balance, it can be a bigger problem than just the loss of arousal and orgasm.
I'm glad that what Closeted has works for her and her husband. It might not work for everyone.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: I'm glad that what Closeted has works for her and her husband. It might not work for everyone.
*nod* I greatly admire Closted for continuing to be in her relationship, since I can say frankly I wouldn't be able to do so if I were in her situation.
Posts: 208 | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Christine, my parents are divorced and it was absolutely the right decision under _their_ circumstances. I have never been a believer in "stay together for the children" as I was one of those children and it tore apart my whole world when my parents were together and unhappy.
I didn't think I was generalizing in my post, and I'm not so naive to think that sexual gratification is the only point in sex and that is the only reason someone might end a relationship, either.
However, it would be a mistake to believe that a lot of people don't selfishly leave committed relationships to seek more exciting sexual lives.
Maybe I completely misunderstood Closeted posts, but to me it sounds like where sexual fulfillment lacks, intimacy and devoted love picks up - and i am glad that is a priority for her and her partner, because that is NOT always the case. And I'm not naive for thinking so. Nor did I think referring to sexual gratification was crass. Leaving someone over it is, though.
Posts: 3936 | Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think that these situations vary by case to case basis and due the people involved. What Closeted and her husband are doing seems to be the best solution for them, and I too really admire the choice they have made.
Anyway, I'm Snail, 22, gay and also closeted to most people.
Posts: 247 | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
porcelain_girl: Ahhh...I see. Yes, I was misinterpreting some of what you wrote in your first post. You seem to be on the same page I am. Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Tara: The day my parents got divorced was probably the best day of my life...
Funny how I read this book that said the opposite... But I didn't like that book that much. It was filled with evidence that was mostly annecdotal *random*
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I am very saddened to read that, Tara, for the environment you must have grown up in.
I really think divorce should be looked at as an amputation-- an ugly, but sometimes necessary procedure. Having been through one, now, I also wish the states (Texas and South Carolina) involved were a little more respectful of my decision making process.
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Also I don't know how disappointed he is, I'll have to wait till I see him again.
