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Alright. Just for the record, I am being silly in my title of this thread. But I'm allowed to be silly, since I used to think that Harry Potter was of the devil. So, although my sense of humor may seem antagonistic, I, rather, believe that it is self-effacing. So, it's okay.
I had thought that Harry Potter was evil. Next, I thought it was a stupid kids' series, and I would hate it. So, I thought I'd read the Sorceror's Stone, and check it out, because OSC said he liked it in one of his review thingies.
After finishing the Order of the Pheonix, I believe that they are okay... I don't know, I may need to read the sixth one, just to make sure (They didn't have it at the library. Curse them!)
I think I picked a good time to read the series, considering that the seventh, and final, installation in the series is coming out in just a short while now.
I feel sorry for Snape. I did from the get-go. Pity is not an emotion I really experience much of while reading a book. Much less, a children's book. He is, I think, the most interestinc character I've read about in a long time. He's not my favorite (Hermione is!), but still. I'm really pulling for him.
So. I like the series, and it's not evil, and it's not lame. I stand corrected, and feel rather silly.
On an off note, I haven't read the sixth book. Just in case somebody cared to comment, and let out a spoiler or two... Please don't. This is serious, man, it's Harry Potter ! No messing around. Posts: 438 | Registered: May 2006
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Not a bit of spoiler from me, Nathan. I'm glad to hear you like Snape. He is about the most fascinating character in the series. I hope you get your hands on book 6 soon, cuz it's a trip. Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003
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I have not read the books but I do enjoy the movies. I have two fourth graders and planned on reading them together with them when they are older. It will still take too long for them to get through.
I was skeptical at first also, but I really enjoy the movies.
Now I'll get flamed for basing my opinion solely on the movie and knowing nothing about the "real" story.
Posts: 1766 | Registered: Feb 2006
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I'd wait with 4th graders, too. Mainly because the later books get much more disturbing--they're not children's books the way the first couple are.
One reason I like HP so much is that I think Rowling is doing something very interesting--the target audience of her book grows up with the protagonist. HP1 is clearly a children's book; HP5 is much more a YA book; and I expect that HP7 will feel much more like an adult fantasy novel.
Glad you're enjoying the series, Nathan! I recently re-read the series to figure out if Snape is good or bad. Posts: 834 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Why are people worried about getting flamed? :\. I think it's great that you decided to give the books a shot, Nathan. I tend to think that it's a shame when people criticize books without even trying to read them. And being pleasantly surprised is often much nicer than having one's pessimism proved correct...although some might prefer to have been right all along . And brojack, there is nothing wrong with liking the movies and talking about the series based on that - you're just experiencing a different aspect of the Potterverse and have every right to comment on it.
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I agree with you completely, but I have seen before where people look down on those who only have a movie or tv for a point of reference.
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As if any of that is interesting, Ron's hidden ninja past was by far the most pleasing surprise.
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You know, BlackBlade, when I read that part I was actually disappointed to discover that the whole Ron becoming a pirate thing was all just an act.
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but Friday, he had to do it to sneak the rest of the ninjas into the castle... there was no other way.
but seriously: I was also one that held off for a while on reading the series because I kept getting reccomendations from mothers who said their kids liked it. But once I started I quickly became engrossed, and realized that despite the first book arguably being a young adult novel it was still quite good for an adult read, and the rest got progressively more adult and more interesting.
As for the "thinking Harry Potter was the devil" I'm really curious to hear some rationale from someone who thinks/thought this kind of thing. It's a phenomena that's always baffled me (not specifically the HP = devil issue so much as any fiction = demonic)
Posts: 1038 | Registered: Feb 2006
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Um, no, they don't. They do their best not only to keep THEIR kids from reading books, but to keep OTHER PEOPLE'S kids from reading books. I 100% support the former, by the way...even if I disagree with a parent's opinion about a book's appropriateness for his or her child, it doesn't really matter what I think. It's not my kid.
Posts: 834 | Registered: Jun 2005
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see, I can understand people getting up in arms about kids being exposed to something that actually was claiming magic to be real (or contained any number of "inappropriate" topics such as sex, drugs and violence)
I'm just really curious as to what rationale is used in decrying a series such as HP which makes no claims to legitimacy, supports no actual alternate religion etc... my general assumption is that the people are either just crackpots or don't really believe what they're spouting to the media, but I'm willing to entertain that there's at least some fraction out there that have some sort of logic behind it all.
Posts: 1038 | Registered: Feb 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Liz B: I'd wait with 4th graders, too. Mainly because the later books get much more disturbing--they're not children's books the way the first couple are.
One reason I like HP so much is that I think Rowling is doing something very interesting--the target audience of her book grows up with the protagonist. HP1 is clearly a children's book; HP5 is much more a YA book; and I expect that HP7 will feel much more like an adult fantasy novel.
My son wanted to read HP when he was 8. I didn't want him speeding through all of them and reading book 6 by the time he was nine, because I thought the topics were too old for him even if he could read the books. So we made an agreement - he can read one book a year. He read #1 several times before he turned 9, & on his birthday he went to the bookshelf first thing in the morning and got #2.
So now he has to wait for the next one just like the rest of us did! And this way he'll be about 13 or so by the time he reads the last one - much more appropriate than third grade.
I first read #1 because I wanted to see if it would be appropriate for my kids, because there were so many people saying it was of the devil. I read all the rest of them just for me. Fabulous.
Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Yeah, I know. I don't see how anybody could see HP as having any sembelence to Wicca. Now I feel silly for spelling sembelence incorrectly... twice.
Yeah, I did notice how the books got increasingly serious as the series went on... I didn't realize that the kids that read the first book would be teenagers by the time the fifth one came out. That is really neat. Of course, I read all five in 2 weeks, so it's not really like I had that particular experience, but I still think it's neat.
PS: I hate all of you. You've ruined the series for me. Those things would have been the BIGGEST twists ever, because I would NEVER had seen them coming, but now, I know exactly what to expect. Hmph! Posts: 438 | Registered: May 2006
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This is Nathan's sister, not Nathan, and I'm posting here because I do not have my own account. Anyway, I think people saying HP is the devil is silly, too. Some I know say that it makes kids start to do magic, (and that's demonic!), but kids can also watch starwars and try to use the force, really. I don't see a difference. It all matters if they take it seriously, and if parents are so worried, they should just specify fiction from non fiction.
Posts: 438 | Registered: May 2006
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Oh, Nathan's sister again, don't take it personally, he hates everyone. (Nah, nah.) I can tell you dirty little stories of his hidden life of crime. And I repeat, nah nah.
Posts: 438 | Registered: May 2006
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And they were correct. That's why ya hafta say "Gesundheit!" after someone goes "Raichu!" If they don't "danke" back, you know they've been possessed.
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001
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I think it's a great idea to have kids reading one book a year. I actually think that was how they were meant to be read. I've got some young relatives -- 8 years old - who have read the entire series so far (and all the movies) and it's clear that they're seeing it all through children's eyes. They run around holding out "wands" and shouting "havadah kadavrah" (sorry if that's not spelled right -- I listen to them on tape). When I saw that I knew I would be putting off all Harry Potter reading until Middle School. I'm hoping some of the mania dies down so he's not surrounded by third graders who have all read the books and seen the movies and he wants to do it too. (He's 1 now, so there is some time.)
Anyway, I don't know what to do with people who think Harry or the books are the devil. The fact that they want to get the books banned bothers me, but I don't have any fear that they will actually succeed -- not for such a popular book. What worries me more is all the other books that they think are the devil and want to ban.
I don't really want to talk to them, though. We don't live in the same world.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:I'm hoping some of the mania dies down so he's not surrounded by third graders who have all read the books and seen the movies and he wants to do it too.
My concern is that they'll have read some of the later books and spoil the surprises! One of my son's second-grade classmates had book #6 in his desk. I SO did not want those Secrets spoiled! (Second grade! )
This is of course the main reason I'm taking my kids out of school next year and homeschooling - I don't want Harry Potter #7 ruined for them. Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:They run around holding out "wands" and shouting "havadah kadavrah"
Yipes! No wonder people want the books banned...Death curses flying everywhere, and from eight-year-olds? *shudders* Posts: 1114 | Registered: Mar 2004
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There is a four year old next door that "kills" me with a mock machine gun almost everytime I come home from work.
I wonder if the people trying to ban Harry Potter are the same people trying to crack down on the NRA? Probably not.
I think the book a year is a great idea for the HP series, and that 8 years old is plenty old enough to start. I've always been a little sad that my youngest brother loved the Harry Potter books when they first came out, but he was growing up as the books were coming out. Right as book four came out he was the age where you actually care what all those other older kids are saying about Harry Potter and how stupid it is. He never finished the series, and it was after he quit that I finally started reading them.
At least now at seventeen he is interested in reading Ender's Game!
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I started practicing withcraft after reading the first book. I've gotten pretty good at it to.
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quote:Right as book four came out he was the age where you actually care what all those other older kids are saying about Harry Potter and how stupid it is.
Who are these people?
I've heard LOTS of villifying of Harry Potter but have not heard anyone criticize it as stupid. Of course, "older kids" to him are probably "teenage children who ignore me" to me, so I guess I wouldn't hear their all-important opinion. Thank goodness.
Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by porcelain girl: There is a four year old next door that "kills" me with a mock machine gun almost everytime I come home from work.
Why don't you just "shoot" back and show him who is boss.
Posts: 21 | Registered: Jan 2007
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I just finished re-reading book 5 and I have to say, it never fully occured to me just how young Harry is supposed to be in these books. I'm pretty sure I didn't start reading them until eighth grade or so, and I guess I must have just pictured Harry being about my age each time. But now, picturing my friend's little brother (age 11) fighting off Voldemort is quite disturbing.
Posts: 3420 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Getting old is like that. Yeah, you're slightly more mature, but not that much so five years later. When you look at people younger than you, you don't see yourself at your current age as being so amazing. Therefore, younger people must be naive.
Except you never were.
Little kids need more credit.
Posts: 1757 | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by JennaDean: I've heard LOTS of villifying of Harry Potter but have not heard anyone criticize it as stupid.
That's actually the main complaint about Harry Potter that I hear from people around me, old and young alike. The devil worshipping complaint I've seen people toss around on the Internet and in some newspaper interviews, but never heard it come from anyone close to me.
In general most of the people I know dislike Harry Potter because they've read the first two books or so and can't understand what the hype is about. (Which, granted, I wouldn't understand either based on just the first books.) Others find it badly written, and then of course there are those odd people who think all fantasy is "stupid", Harry Potter included. Even more common are those to whom Harry Potter is the only fantasy they've ever read, and who are now making excuses to why they like Harry Potter and why it is so much more than those other sillier fantasy books. Or who go "Of course Harry Potter is silly and childish and not relevant to the real world in any way, but sometimes you need pure escapism." Or something.
Posts: 247 | Registered: Dec 2006
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My sister wouldn't let her daughter read Harry Potter for the longest time for religious reasons - thinking it's evil and all that. Then along comes my brother - the oldest - and buys my niece the first three or four books (that's all there was, then)(and he's an atheist, so, you know, he's going to hell anyway ), and my niece reads them. My sister apparently thought there wasn't much she could do - after all, the books were gifts from the niece's favorite uncle.
I don't understand the attitude myself, but this religion of hers is the same one that thinks Mormons are devil worshippers, cultists, the Anti-Christ, and so on, so I'm afraid I don't give it a whole lot of credit.
Fortunately, we manage to not discuss religion, among other things, so we still have a decent relationship despite all.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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God I hope any potential wife of mine's parents don't follow such a religion as the ones you mention, quid.
I'd have such a hard time not calling THEM Satan-worshippers, anti-Christians, etc.
I mean, the pleasure of seeing their shock and anger would be great, but it would make the whole "getting along" thing so much harder. Ahh. well. If I marry the girl I think I will, it won't be a problem.
Posts: 1577 | Registered: Sep 2005
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My sister believes what she believes and doesn't shove it in anyone's face. She has to follow her own conscience. She doesn't demand anyone change their lifestyle to suit her beliefs. She lives her life the way she feels is right, and that I have no quibble with.
Now, then, a certain other brother is very much in-yer-face-and-who-gives-a-crap-who-has-feelings, as other various relatives have been in the past, and have insulted and condemned me and others to our faces and demanded we live according to their beliefs. Those ones, I have problems with.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:then of course there are those odd people who think all fantasy is "stupid", Harry Potter included.
Oh. Those people. I just generally ignore those poor deluded people.
What annoys me are the people who hate the whole "Harry Potter phenomenon" just because of its popularity, and refuse to read the books solely because so many people love them. As if liking obscure things makes them better or smarter, and liking something that everyone else likes will make them common.
Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005
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My mother thinks they are evil and she hasn't even read that. She sees the devil in everything. It's a good thing I don't live with her. I'd wear Megadeth t shirts and play Dir en grey just to annoy her.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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I have run into a lot of people who dislike the books because they are popular. In fact, I'd say that the most common complaints I hear about Harry Potter are from people who have not even read the first page of book one!
Whatever. Their loss.
I have heard a few quibbles about the writing and in some cases, the story. I tend to agree that the writing could be better but I don't think it gets in the way of the story. I usually disagree that the story is bad. (Although there is a serious plot hole the size of Australia in book 4 that I take exception to.)
Mostly, I have good things to say about them. They are fun to read. And reread. They are the quintessential fantasy escape and they even have a little depth.
As for going to hell -- heck, Harry Potter is the least of the reasons I'm going to hell. May as well enjoy the trip. Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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I'm just really curious as to what rationale is used in decrying a series such as HP which makes no claims to legitimacy, supports no actual alternate religion etc... my general assumption is that the people are either just crackpots or don't really believe what they're spouting to the media, but I'm willing to entertain that there's at least some fraction out there that have some sort of logic behind it all.
My dad is a pastor and when he first found out i was reading the books he had me stop. He had been told that the author was a devil worshiper and was sending satanic messages to little kids through her books. What makes my dad different from so many other pastors/christians is that he actually READ the book.
Once he saw that it was harmless and later found out the author was just a mom trying to make some money, he let me pick right up from where i had left off. To him it was no different than the christian writers C.S. Lewis or J.R.R. Tolkien (well minus the christian themes but you get what i mean). I am glad I have a dad who loves me enough that he trys to protect me, but I'm also glad he did his homework before rulling it out competely.
For the other issue, the books have matured as time has went on. I have grown up with Harry Potter. I was in third grade when the first book came out and now I am 17 ending my jr year in high school. I have aged just as Harry has, and I think the biggest strength to the Potter series is that Rowling has matured the book so the first fans can still enjoy it.
Something would have been taken away from the series if they had stayed geared to 9 year olds. With each years new book i follow the same routine as i did when i was 9. I lock myself in my room for a day and just read.
Posts: 86 | Registered: Jun 2005
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It was not bravery that enabled me to lend my sibbling my SN... It was ignorance (On my part), and deceit (On hers).
At least the only thing she did was bump a topic... But it was *my* topic. I don't know if it was favor because I'm her brother, or my magnetic personality that drew her to my thread.
Posts: 438 | Registered: May 2006
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quote:For the other issue, the books have matured as time has went on. I have grown up with Harry Potter. I was in third grade when the first book came out and now I am 17 ending my jr year in high school. I have aged just as Harry has, and I think the biggest strength to the Potter series is that Rowling has matured the book so the first fans can still enjoy it.
I love the way that Rowling has aged the books with the characters. I'm re-reading the series now in preparation for the big book release. I'm finishing the "Sorceror's Stone" now and its been awhile since I last read it, so much so that I had almost forgotten how sweet and innocently the first one reads. It really gets me in the mindset of what its like be eleven years old again (I'm twice that age.) And as Harry grows, he becomes more observant and his perspective changes. While the later books does have some truly chilling scenes, the first one isn't some silly playground. There's cranial possesions and tempting mirrors which can steal a man's life. But the descriptions Rowling uses and the atmosphere she sets is always carefully crafted to Harry's mental age. Its not so much that we see death, but we see it through the eyes of a boy at the age of 14 and then 15 and so forth. I remember that when "Order of the Phoenix" came out, I had a younger brother the same age and I was blown away by the identical behavior (screaming fits, anger, slammed doors.) Rowling really knows how to get into the child-minds of her characters. I think its her greatest strength as a writer.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by JennaDean: What annoys me are the people who hate the whole "Harry Potter phenomenon" just because of its popularity, and refuse to read the books solely because so many people love them. As if liking obscure things makes them better or smarter, and liking something that everyone else likes will make them common.
Heh. In all honesty I didn't read the books for a few years because I thought that things the public likes aren't usually that good... I'm glad I was wrong this time, but you still couldn't convince me to read Eragon or the DaVinci Code.
quote:Originally posted by Dog Walker: My dad is a pastor and when he first found out i was reading the books he had me stop. He had been told that the author was a devil worshiper and was sending satanic messages to little kids through her books. What makes my dad different from so many other pastors/christians is that he actually READ the book.
I have to say, I'm still a bit alarmed at the idea of people thinking the author a devil worshipper.
I mean, thinking she might be sending unhealthy messages to children - sure. People have different moral standards, not everybody is going to agree with everybody. But I would think that promoting actual satanism in children's books would be considered iffy by even most non-religious people... So I don't know, thinking that the writer and the publishers and the parents and the grand public in general would support satanism in such a way requires a huge amount of cynicism in my eyes. Unless you're using a lot wider definiton of satanism than I, of course.
Posts: 247 | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by JennaDean: What annoys me are the people who hate the whole "Harry Potter phenomenon" just because of its popularity, and refuse to read the books solely because so many people love them. As if liking obscure things makes them better or smarter, and liking something that everyone else likes will make them common.
Heh. In all honesty I didn't read the books for a few years because I thought that things the public likes aren't usually that good... I'm glad I was wrong this time, but you still couldn't convince me to read Eragon or the DaVinci Code.
There's a difference between the Davinci code and Eragon and Harry Potter -- the first to were popular, yes. But nothing else that I can think of has the universal popularity of Harry Potter. It spans ages, generations, ethnicity, social class, gender, etc. As far as I can tell, mainstream fans like the Davinci code (and that is a pretty big audience) and young men like Eragon.
quote:Originally posted by Dog Walker: My dad is a pastor and when he first found out i was reading the books he had me stop. He had been told that the author was a devil worshiper and was sending satanic messages to little kids through her books. What makes my dad different from so many other pastors/christians is that he actually READ the book.
I have to say, I'm still a bit alarmed at the idea of people thinking the author a devil worshipper.
I mean, thinking she might be sending unhealthy messages to children - sure. People have different moral standards, not everybody is going to agree with everybody. But I would think that promoting actual satanism in children's books would be considered iffy by even most non-religious people... So I don't know, thinking that the writer and the publishers and the parents and the grand public in general would support satanism in such a way requires a huge amount of cynicism in my eyes. Unless you're using a lot wider definiton of satanism than I, of course. [/QUOTE]
I admit to having this same reaction. I mean, it's nice that he was open-minded enough to read the book and do his own research and I respect screeing your children's reading material, however; it seems incredible to believe that someone even might be a devil worshipper without some pretty hard evidence.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Originally posted by JennaDean: [qb]What annoys me are the people who hate the whole "Harry Potter phenomenon" just because of its popularity, and refuse to read the books solely because so many people love them. As if liking obscure things makes them better or smarter, and liking something that everyone else likes will make them common.
Heh. In all honesty I didn't read the books for a few years because I thought that things the public likes aren't usually that good... I'm glad I was wrong this time, but you still couldn't convince me to read Eragon or the DaVinci Code.
There's a difference between the Davinci code and Eragon and Harry Potter -- the first to were popular, yes. But nothing else that I can think of has the universal popularity of Harry Potter. It spans ages, generations, ethnicity, social class, gender, etc. As far as I can tell, mainstream fans like the Davinci code (and that is a pretty big audience) and young men like Eragon.
Posts: 2392 | Registered: Sep 2005
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I admit to having this same reaction. I mean, it's nice that he was open-minded enough to read the book and do his own research and I respect screeing your children's reading material, however; it seems incredible to believe that someone even might be a devil worshipper without some pretty hard evidence. [/QB]
You have to understand this was when the books first came out. Also I never said he believed she was a devil worshiper, this is just what the people at the church told him when i brought the book to church to let my friend borrow it (How stupid was I). It was a big deal in the church and as the pastor he was hearing a lot about it. Another thing I might add is that our church was very close to a store that sold suplies for acult worship (back then i thought it was a magic show shop), and they had some copies of the book. He thought she might be incouraging wika and bashing christianity, and didnt want me reading the book until he checked it out.
My dad is not stupid, he was a Molecular Biologist before becoming a pastor. He isn't quick to judge or believe things to be fact until he gathers all the info. He had to look into something that caused such chaos in our church.
Posts: 86 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:My dad is not stupid, he was a Molecular Biologist before becoming a pastor. He isn't quick to judge or believe things to be fact until he gathers all the info. He had to look into something that caused such chaos in our church.
You're missing the point, here. When somebody is accused of being a devil worshiper, the default reaction should not be "I will investigate; until then, no reading her books!" Rather it should be "I will investigate; until then, carry on."
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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quote:Originally posted by King of Men: You're missing the point, here. When somebody is accused of being a devil worshiper, the default reaction should not be "I will investigate; until then, no reading her books!" Rather it should be "I will investigate; until then, carry on."
Um, no. If I'm unsure as to the appropriateness of a book/movie/tv show, I will not allow my child to read/watch until I am satisfied that it's all right. Making sure for myself may include reading the book myself, reading reviews/synopses, talking to others whose judgement I trust who have read the book or any combination of the above.
Not that I think there's anything wrong with Harry Potter, but there is a lot of entertainment choices out there that are not appropriate for certain age groups for example. And making sure that my children are not exposed to subject matter or profanity/violence etc that they're not ready for or that I find inappropriate is part of being a responsible parent.
To be honest, my children are old enough now that I don't do much "investigating" on their behalf anymore. But I surely did when they were tweens/young teens.
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Fine. But the charge leveled wasn't "It teaches bad things". The charge was "The author worships the devil!" There is such a thing as distinguishing between a reasonable accusation and a wild one.
Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
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. And brojack, there is nothing wrong with liking the movies and talking about the series based on that - you're just experiencing a different aspect of the Potterverse and have every right to comment on it.
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), and my niece reads them. My sister apparently thought there wasn't much she could do - after all, the books were gifts from the niece's favorite uncle. 
