posted
Well on my way to lunch I rolled down my driver's side power window, and it made a terrible noise and the window didn't go down all the way. I tried it again and heard a whurring noise and the window was not moving properly. I pulled on the window and found it pulled back up without any resistance. I couldn't pull it out all the way, but found it will rest in an almost covering the door position. The car guy I usually see says he thinks it needs a new regulator and a new one + labor will run me $250. $250 will not make me a happy person, do I have any other recourse? Or should I resign myself to another stupid car repair bill?
posted
Excellent point there at the end. Buy Honda.
I think you're gonna be stuck with a repair bill, unless you want to go to a junkyard and buy a compatible regulator and install it yourself. But 250 dollars seems a bit high. Find a new mechanic and you might get it done for 100 less.
Posts: 1286 | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Well, I'm a auto tech myself, and from what you describing, it does sound like you need a new regulator. I could be the motor, but that's even worse. It sounds like a regulator though.
Sorry... wish I had better news.
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Do you have another option? Depends on how handy you are.
You can pull off the door panel and look for yourself to see what's wrong. If it is the regulator (and there are a few other things that it could be), then you could buy it yourself and replace it for considerably less. I would guess.
I'd start here, for an overview of what exactly is happening when you hit your power window control (when it's working, that is), and from there go here for a general troubleshooting guide.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I don't know about your area BB, but overall, Volkswagen dealers have a reputation of charging very high prices for both parts and labor. For example, I know someone here that paid almost $100 for a headlight bulb replacement on their New Beetle. It can also be hard finding mechanics competent in repairing German automobiles, so they tend to charge more as well.
If you go the junkyard route and use a Saturday afternoon, you can probably save yourself almost $200. Heck, if you didn't live in southern Utah, you could probably find a coworker that would help you out for a six-pack Seriously though, if you have a handy coworker, then bribe him with some food and have at it.
Posts: 1412 | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Thanks a bunch guys thus far. In terms of compatability, I know VW likes to use specialized parts in their vehicles, but generally speaking are there many different models of regulators?
How hard would it be to procure the right one and just have a mechanic replace it?
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by BaoQingTian: I don't know about your area BB, but overall, Volkswagen dealers have a reputation of charging very high prices for both parts and labor. For example, I know someone here that paid almost $100 for a headlight bulb replacement on their New Beetle. It can also be hard finding mechanics competent in repairing German automobiles, so they tend to charge more as well.
If you go the junkyard route and use a Saturday afternoon, you can probably save yourself almost $200. Heck, if you didn't live in southern Utah, you could probably find a coworker that would help you out for a six-pack Seriously though, if you have a handy coworker, then bribe him with some food and have at it.
Actually I live in Provo, so maybe Ill try that option, I just need to get my hands on the correct regulator. Time to use the magic of the internet.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by BlackBlade: How hard would it be to procure the right one and just have a mechanic replace it?
That's definitely not the economical way to do it. On something like a window regulator I'd guess the labor is far more than the parts cost. Either buy it online, procure it in a junkyard, and have a buddy replace it, or just suck it up and let the mechanic do the whole thing. That's my advice.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Nick: Well, I'm a auto tech myself, and from what you describing, it does sound like you need a new regulator. I could be the motor, but that's even worse.
Just how hard is it to replace a window motor? I think I've got a dead window motor in one of my cars. It started going very slow one day, and it finally stopped just short of all the way up. The motor doesn't make any noise anymore. How big of a pain is it to replace a window motor? It's a '93 Cutlass Supreme, if that helps.
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I suspect you'll have better luck than BlackBlade finding a reasonable replacement at a junk yard.
The biggest problem with any of these repairs is likely to be your chagrin when you realize that you can't take apart your door panel and put it back together again without breaking something, making a mess, or tearing fabric.
It's one of those things. The dealers use clips and such that are meant to install once and stay that way. Sure...it's supposed to be serviceable, but in reality, the stuff is made flimsy or bendable because it's never really supposed to be taken apart.
That's my experience.
And, realistically, the more you do inside that door, the more likely it's going to be that you end up with a serious puzzle before you're done.
Before attempting this, you might chat up a mechanic to see what tools they use, what kind of clips to expect inside -- maybe lay in a supply of them...
(NOTE: I'm not saying it's impossible, but the DIY potential for screwing up the interior panels on a door a many and varied)
Posts: 300 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Buying volkswagen is fine if it's a 1969 and has power nothing. I stand by this and will offer pictures if you'd like proof.
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Jon, it's not really hard(simply more costly), the trick is getting off the door panel. It's all just a matter of "finagle-ing" the regulator/most assembly out after bolt removal. Door clips a lot of times are "one-shot-items" a lot of times. Sometimes you get lucky. I'm more experienced with Toyota vehicles, even though I'm changing to a VW dealer soon.
I've never taken off a door panel on the car you're speaking of, but keep one thing in mind, it's well worth it for the do-it-yourself weekend warrior to go out and buy a good repair manual. I've had good luck with Haynes repair manuals. It will tell you were the screws, bolts and clips are, which come first, where to pry etc.
Keep in mind that if you're pulling and pulling and it's not coming free, you're missing something most of the time. The problem with helping and advising somebody on how to service the car is that I can't be there and look at it. Don't go asking me to drive out to Utah from California either.
Make sure you index the regulator teeth so you install the motor back in the proper location or else the window won't roll up all the way or will want to roll up too far and not far enough down.
I forgot to mention there will probably be a layer of plastic with some black sticky gummy material securing the plastic to the body of the door behind the door panel. Make sure you cut this sealing material with a blade so you can reuse if you don't contaminate the surface of it by touching too much.
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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My car has been refusing to start recently. It acts like battery is dead, but it has a new battery. However, it will start after I wiggle the wires around the battery, or, and this is new, pull out the fuses and put the same fuses back in. The fuses haven't even been changed, but pulling them and putting them back allows the car to start. However, 24 hours later it will refuse to start again and I go through the same process all over again. I just dropped the car off at a service place and I will call them in the morning to explain what the dead car is doing there, but anyone have any ideas before I place myself and my brave auto at a mechanic's mercy?
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posted
When you turn the key and doesn't start, can you hear a clicking sound? What kind of car is it? Is there a bunch of battery post corrosion at either the positive or negative terminals?
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Thanks, Nick. I've got a Haynes manual, and I've taken off the door before for something else, so I think I should be able to muddle my way through it.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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kat, that sounds like a bad connection.... the first thing i'd do is clean the posts... take both cables off, get a wire brush (one for cars, not the kitchen) and clean both the cables (inside where they touch the posts and around the screws), then clean the posts themselves (actually you can buy a post cleaner at Auto Zone or one of its competitors for pretty cheap and it does the job superbly). Its very possible that something as minute as a particle or some other crud is interfering with the connection...
On another note, it could be something else entirely. You might have to replace the cables.
Another thing involving the battery is the alternator. But the bit you describe about the fuses make me think your alternator is fine.
Might even be the starter. But I'd work this out in the order I describe above. You could do all 4 yourself, but the latter two sometimes scare people enough to pay someone else to do it.
posted
striplinrz is right, just make sure the posts and terminals are clean like a asked about, and if they are, the only thing I think it could be is a bad starter, bad starter contacts, or a bad alternator.
quote: On another note, it could be something else entirely. You might have to replace the cables.
I bought an old VW Rabbit recently, and I think it needs a new started solenoid, but I am not sure. I can push start it and it runs like a charm, but I cant start it with the key. There is power, and no clicking sound when I turn the key.
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How old? New enough for an automatic transmission? Do those cars even have auto? I'm not a VW specialist.
You could be right, it will probably need a starter solenoid, but not being there, I can't accurately diagnose your car. It could also be an open in your starter motor control circuit.
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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Mind you, when youfind yourself elbow deep in sump oil and inventing new curses by the second, you have to wonder if sometimes they should be classified within the Fiction section of the bookshop..
Good luck whatever you choose to do.
BTW eBay is a great source of cheap parts if it's not super urgent.
Posts: 892 | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
No corrosion at the terminals - the battery is less than a week old. Once I wiggle things it starts just fine, so I don't think it is the alternator - there is plenty of juice in the battery.
My guess is that it is the cables as well. Nothing else really makes sense - if it was the starter or the alternator or the battery itself, wiggling the wires around it wouldn't help. Maybe it is the fusebox itself, because pulling them out and putting them back in makesit start as well. It sounds like all of the pieces work but the connections are funky.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
I third the Haynes manuals. I bought one for every car I ever had and boy, were they handy. Even if I took the car in for repair by the mechanic, it at least helped me understand what was happening and not get ripped off.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Amazing! I need a full tuneup and replace everything!
I hate mechanics. *growl*
ANyway, he doesn't know why it isn't starting, but clearly I need a full tuneup and replace all four spark plugs, the fuel filter, the rotary cap, and the wires. I really don't feel like it right now, and I HATE it when you take a car in and all of sudden you have to do everything. He opened up by saying "You haven't done a tuneup in a while, have you." Guess what - I take criticizing me off the bat as a sign that I'm about to get snowed. It's certainly happened before.
Especially when I think it is the wiring that is the problem, but he wouldn't specify what wiring they would replace. I find it highly unlikely they are replacing ALL of the wiring.
posted
If you just need new battery cables, my advice would be to start with the negative cable. It's usually just a straight shot from the battery terminal to someplace on the car. If you've got a bad negative cable, you could fix the thing yourself in no time.
If it's the positive cable, ofter there's other junk attached to it and you might have to disassemble and reassemble a few things to get to just replacing the cable. I'd wait to see if just doing the negative one fixes the problem, then tackle the positive cable if I had to. Make sure to get some cable ties and whatever you need to put it all back the way it was before you started.
You might still need a tune up, of course, but there's no need to take it back to the person who is trying to snow you or make the job bigger than it needs to be.
Posts: 300 | Registered: Dec 2002
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I admit that I might need a tuneup, but I'm really bothered that he didn't explain what was wrong with the car but insisted starting with a tuneup. Considering the car starts after I wiggle the fuses, I really doubt it is the spark plugs. It seemed like he didn't address my concern at all but instead went straight for a standard, expensive solution that may or may not be the cause of the problem.
I don't KNOW that I need new battery cables. I want them to figure out what, specifically, it is that I need and what is causing the problem. Is that not possible? Are there really only about a dozen procedures at a garage and they just pull one out and recommend it?
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
If I were you, I'd either get a second opinion, and have a guy friend who knows something about cars go with you. It sounds like he's trying to rip you off because you're a girl, and he thinks you don't know. I've had that happen with mechanics before. If you don't have a guy friend who knows about cars then ask around with women in the area to see if they can recommend a good mechanic. If you decide to use this mechanic, then I would insist on knowing exactly what is wrong with the car before he works on it, and I would also make it very clear that you will not pay for any work that is done without advance approval, because he also sounds like one of those mechanics that will do work on you car that you didn't ask for, and didn't know about, and then insist that you pay for it.
Posts: 1214 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
I agree with a lot of what andi330 says - this guy sounds like he's not listening to you at all, so I'd try another place if possible - especially if any of your friends have a mechanic they'd recommend.
It's also possible that the things the guy is telling you need to be replaced do need to be replaced before the guy can start figuring out what's wrong. I've had that happen before with a mechanic I trusted and even then I asked friends who knew about cars if that made sense. In my case it did, but I'd still be wary in your situation.
Posts: 959 | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
The problem is that this IS the place my friends recommended.
My guess is that the car started when he tried it. It isn't consistent that is doesn't start - sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. If it worked fine when he tried it, then from his perspective the tuneup is what needs to be done.
I was thinking of just stopping by on my way home from work and talking to them in person. I don't think it's working over the phone.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Hmmm, maybe it could be the battery cables after all. It sounded like terminal corrosion at first. It's really hard to say when I can't look at the car myself. Maybe a intermittent bad connection within the fuse block. Does the car start after a no-start condition after you move ONLY the fuses? Or move ONLY the cables?
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
It is definitely not terminal corrosion, because the connectors to the car have been cleaned and the battery is one week old.
It used to be that wiggling the wires would do it, but starts ONLY after pulling out the fuses and putting them back in.
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posted
I'm going to mention this, even though it's such an extreme long shot.
A very long time ago, I owned a 1980 Honda Civic that had the same intermittent starting problem that you mention, katharina. Mine ended up being a blown fusible link in the cable that led to the positive battery terminal. The link was blown enough that it stopped working sometimes, but there was enough there that there was sometimes a contact. Bizarre.
Anyway, CDN$0.45 later, the car was fine. (I had a wonderful, honest mechanic.)
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
You might want to get a second opinion. Maybe tell him you will come back for the tune up when you're more financially able. Tell him you just want the car to reliably start for now. I don't think cap, rotor, plugs and wires are going to fix this. It sounds like he wants money.
[ May 08, 2007, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Nick ]
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
kat, have you cleaned the contacts for the fuses? You could use rubbing alcohol on a Qtip or an eraser (pink kind has some abrasives in it, so usually works better). I would clean all the contacts on the fusebox as well as the fuses.
Posts: 8355 | Registered: Apr 2003
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Katie - do you have to pull out all the fuses or just the same one or two? And have you tried switching/replacing any of the fuses to see if it's a problem in the fuse rather than anywhere else?
I've really no idea but I'm sorry this is so frustrating.
Posts: 959 | Registered: Jan 2002
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: My guess is that the car started when he tried it. It isn't consistent that is doesn't start - sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.
Can you figure out any kind of pattern to it? For instance, my car has problems starting when the engine's already hot. But from what you've said it sounds more random than that. Otherwise, I think what quidscribis described sounds most likely—a blown fusible link.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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No, he does not know why my car isn't starting. To fix it, he reccomends the whole tuneup. That is his reccomendation. If I don't want them to fix it, he wants to charge me $40 for the diagnosis and I can't get my car back until I pay that. So, I just paid someone $40 for a bad diagnosis.
*kicks things harder*
However, he did admit that he does not know why my car isn't starting. How can he charge me for a diagnosis when he hasn't figured it out?
---
I just called him again, and he said, "You don't know anything. The fuel filter needs to be replaced." Good criminey. *jumps and down in frustration* Now I need to find a new place to take it that will actually address, you know, what I brought it in for. Anyone in Northern Virginia have a reccomendation?
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
kat: I had the exact same thing done to me when my car broke down last year. Its supposedly the same thing as when a doctor runs tests that do not come up positive and thus your condition is undiagnoste.
If you take it somewhere else make SURE you find out what test he ran so the other mechanic does not charge you for the same test and the same results.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Has anyone read the computer errors off the car? This could point to a sensor in the ignition switch somewhere. For tricky diagnoses I would go directly to a dealer, your local mechanic may not even be able to read the computer.
Posts: 675 | Registered: Aug 2001
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Yes, last week the guy from Autozone brought his computer reader over and read the computer. It said everything was fine. THe fuses thing was also his idea. We tested the fuses and they were working fine, but pulling them and putting them back in meant the car started working.
I swear, if I had to say something, I would say the connections in the fuse box. I wonder how much that would be...*googles*
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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posted
Also, I am pretty sure that what he says is true. You probably do need a tune-up and a fuel filter change. And it probably won't fix your starting problem. Make sure that any mechanic looking at it is working while the car is in error condition which they often don't have time to do under these occassional problems. You might want to sit in the parking lot trying it yourself until you get the error condition then go get the mechanic.
Posts: 675 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Argh. What a jerk. How in the world would the fuel filter have anything to do with it? Sure, like orlox said, maybe it does need to be replaced, but I can't imagine how it would be causing the current problem. Maybe you should threaten to call the Better Business Bureau or something. I don't know if that'll get you your car back without having to pay for a bogus diagnostic, though.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
I asked him if it started when he went to the car. He said no, but that it started after he sprayed a "gum cutter" on the engine.
I've googled that and it is basically a cleaner. He didn't say exactly where he sprayed it and would not share a theory as to why that allowed the car to start.
Yeah, I know I need to get all that taken care of for the car. I was planning on doing it in June. I really, really don't want to do all of that and have the car still be dead after. --- I just want to deal with someone who doesn't start out with the assumption that he can do a crappy job and it's okay and I'm an easy mark. I can't believe this guy actually said "You don't know anything" when I pointed out that he hadn't said why my car wasn't starting.
posted
If it isn't something that a reasonably well trained mechanic can find, then I strongly suspect a sensor in the ignition circuit or perhaps some bad wiring in the circuit. Either way, you are probably better off at a dealer.
Although, they will probably insist on the tune-up and fuel filter too...
Posts: 675 | Registered: Aug 2001
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posted
Get away from that mechanic. You can't charge somebody for a diagnosis and then say I don't know what's wrong with it. He's charging for a service not rendered. I would refuse to pay. I would recommend a dealer, a lot of times, a experienced tech will have seen this before.
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Nick: Get away from that mechanic. You can't charge somebody for a diagnosis and then say I don't know what's wrong with it. He's charging for a service not rendered. I would refuse to pay. I would recommend a dealer, a lot of times, a experienced tech will have seen this before.
Um like I said, hospitals do it all the time.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Katie - when I was in Virginia I went to Koons Ford/Dodge out in Fairfax. I loved my mechanic there - he always treated me fairly and was very patient with me every time I asked him to explain why something had to be replaced. If I remember right, though, you don't have a Ford, so that won't do you much good, but maybe there's a Koons dealer near you that deals with your car. Since I never dealt with anyone other than Koons Ford, I can't guarantee that the others will be good, but maybe it's worth a shot.
Posts: 959 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Um, What I said is different. He won't actually tell her what tests he performed, unlike your "doctor" simile.
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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At this point, as much as it will probably pain your wallet, I would recommend a dealer too. Until I found a mechanic in the area that I was comfortable working with, the dealer, while expensive, was most likely to tell me what was going on with my car. Most dealers also have policies in place that will not allow their mechanics to "fix" something without owner permission either, whereas many independent mechanics will just start "fixing" things and then tell you to pay up. The mechanic you've got your car with sounds to me like one of the dishonest ones.
Posts: 1214 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Did you approve any repairs or simply approve the diagnosis? If he charges you for a repair you never authorized, you can legally refuse to pay.
Posts: 4229 | Registered: Dec 2002
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I didn't approve ANYTHING - I left the car in the morning, called right before the metro to let them know it was mine, and we said we would talk in an hour when I got to the office. When I got to the office, the polo game delineated above had begun.
Anyway, I got my car back (it started just fine five times yesterday) and found another place to take it. He told me up front it would be $30 to diagnose, but I told him the problem and he listed some things that may be the culprit, so I think he isn't going to claim it is all the result of the rotary cap and get mad when I don't believe him.
*crosses fingers* Here's hoping it's the wires and not the starter.
Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000
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Printer-friendly view of this topic
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I could be the motor, but that's even worse. It sounds like a regulator though.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Seriously though, if you have a handy coworker, then bribe him with some food and have at it.
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