FacebookTwitter
Hatrack River Forum Post New Topic  Post A Reply
my profile login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Snape's trustworthiness

   
Author Topic: Snape's trustworthiness
storypoem
New Member
Member # 10796

 - posted      Profile for storypoem           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have not read the last book, so I do not dare read the forum comments.

As The Half Blood Prince begins, Snape takes the Unbreakable Vow to Narcissa. This does several things: it leads us astray in doubting Snape's loyalty to Dumbledore, and it introduces us to the Unbreakable Vow. References to this Vow occur periodically throughout the book. Ron explains it to Harry: if you break it, you die.

Dumbledore has always said he has good reason to trust Snape. Dumbledore trusts Snape ABSOLUTELY. We are made to distrust Snape absolutely, beginning with his name and its initial "sn"("snicker" "snarl" "snoop" "snake" "snipe" "snuff" "snuffle" "sniff" "sniffle" "snip" "snide" "snob" "snub" "snicker" "sneak" "sneaky" "snuck" "snag" "snigger" "snail" "snore" "sneer" "snot" "snit" "snooty" "snivel" "sniveling" "sneeze" "shnozz"). (Faulkner used the same "sn" sound to repel us against the Snopes family). One of the few English words starting with "sn" that is not ugly is "snow" and even snow is, at least, COLD. And, of course, we know that Snape hated Harry's father and hates Harry too. And he has greasy hair and an ugly nose. We are totally led astray by these red herrings.

I say Dumbledore is not stupid. He has absolute reason for this absolute trust in Snape. When Snape left Voldemort, he made an Unbreakable Vow to Dumbledore always to be loyal to him (i.e., to Dumbledore).

I am confident this becomes evident in the last book and am sure that as soon as I read it my confidence will be vindicated. Those who have already read the 7th book will know that Snape proves his absolute loyalty to Dumbledore in that last book.

I also expect that some aspect of Dumbledore must, at least temporarily, return before the series ends. The fact that Dumbledore's tomb surrounded him after the "fire" surrounded him reminds us of the fire that surrounded, but did not destroy, Tom Riddle's cabinet when Dumbledore first visited him at the orphanage. The cabinet reappeared unimpaired, and I suspect Dumbledore will reappear as well.

But I am absolutely sure that, in the final volume, Snape is vindicated at last.

Posts: 1 | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MEC
Member
Member # 2968

 - posted      Profile for MEC   Email MEC         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You forgot the most evil of sn words that snape likes the best...snuggle.
Posts: 2489 | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ketchupqueen
Member
Member # 6877

 - posted      Profile for ketchupqueen   Email ketchupqueen         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Well, you're wrong on one point, at least. But yeah, you'll like the last book.
Posts: 21181 | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Steev
Member
Member # 6805

 - posted      Profile for Steev           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Stop worrying about it and just read the book.
It reveals all. It's the best spoiler out there.
In fact it's the official spoiler.

Posts: 527 | Registered: Aug 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lem
Member
Member # 6914

 - posted      Profile for lem           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You also forgot "snitch," as in the super fast ball. I think it is appropriate that Snape cast the alacriny curse on Harry making him so fast time reverts for Harry so he can stop Voldemort from splitting his soul. It was sad that it made Harry more susceptible to Voldomort's curse when Harry was a baby.

Awesome scene tho!

Posts: 2445 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Nathan2006
Member
Member # 9387

 - posted      Profile for Nathan2006   Email Nathan2006         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Welcome to hatrack. (I've always wanted to say that.)

[Smile]

Posts: 438 | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MEC
Member
Member # 2968

 - posted      Profile for MEC   Email MEC         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
***spoilers***


Even though snape turned out to be good, I still don't really like him. He really was a jerk in all of the books, and even as a spy, I don't think he helped out that much. In my opinion the last book would have been better if Snape was written as an evil character.


***spoilers***


edit: sorry

[ August 04, 2007, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: MEC ]

Posts: 2489 | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
stihl1
Member
Member # 1562

 - posted      Profile for stihl1   Email stihl1         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by MEC:
Even though snape turned out to be good, I still don't really like him. He really was a jerk in all of the books, and even as a spy, I don't think he helped out that much. In my opinion the last book would have been better if Snape was written as an evil character.

yeah, I didn't buy into the snape as a hero at the end thing either. He was still a creepy, dark, death eatin' bastard and I don't care how much he loved Lilly, he's still bad in my book.

And, wonderfully played by Alan Rickman.

Posts: 1042 | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
breyerchic04
Member
Member # 6423

 - posted      Profile for breyerchic04   Email breyerchic04         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I know I'm awful, but fanfic spam!
Posts: 5362 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BlueWizard
Member
Member # 9389

 - posted      Profile for BlueWizard   Email BlueWizard         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It has never been a question of DID Snape kill Dumbledore, but WHY did Snape kill Dumbledore. I correctly predicted it, or at least, correctly speculated it.

*-Spoiler-ish-*
[These are all conclusions I reached and statements I made LONG LONG before the final book was released. Also, the 'nice vs good' was a point made in the earlier books themselves.]

I've also said all along, that Snape doesn't have to be NICE to be GOOD. Strangely, the moment I was absolutely convinced Snape was good was when he killed Dumbledore. Odd, I know, but then I've alway been a little odd.

*- End Spoiler-ish -*

For the record, I also correctly predicted (speculated) the nature of the Deathly Hallows.

As to the Dumbledore/Snape Unbreakable Vow; never bought it, never will. Dumbledore trusts, he doesn't coerce under penalty of death.

But then...that's just my opinion.

Steve/BlueWizard

PS: Haven't read the book! Sweet Mother of Merlin, what are you waiting for? It is one bumpy roller coaster of a ride. Your heart will never stop pounding, and it will never stop breaking.

Just to entice you, the first line is -

"The two men appeared out of nowhere, a few yards apart in the narrow, moonlit lane. ..."

[ August 05, 2007, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: BlueWizard ]

Posts: 803 | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Noemon
Member
Member # 1115

 - posted      Profile for Noemon   Email Noemon         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
You know, posting spoilers in this thread is a pretty crappy thing to be doing. The original poster explicitly says that he hasn't yet read the book, and makes it clear that he's been trying to avoid spoilers.

MEC, stihl, could you at least clearly mark your spoilers as such?

Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
porcelain girl
Member
Member # 1080

 - posted      Profile for porcelain girl   Email porcelain girl         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
POSSIBLE SPOILERS
*


*


*


*


*

I don't think was purely established as good or evil, which I loved. He was a person who chose to do some very evil things, and hurt a lot of people. However, the love he had for one person drove him to put himself in serious danger by daily double crossing one of the most powerful wizards in all of history. He also pledged to protect the life of someone he didn't particularly like. Was he wrong in being a Death Eater? Yes. Was he redeemed? Yes, I believe he was. He was not the most honorable of characters, but he did have feelings and went through great lengths to right some of his wrongs. He was still a jerk, but not a heartless, greedy jerk that never expressed remorse or change. This is why I appreciated him not being a part of the group that escorted Harry through the forbidden forest, but was recognized by Harry as having died a martyr's death, and worthy of remembrance. He was not martyred for the cause of Good, but he was martyred for the love of Lily, and she was Good. I believe this love, and her sacrifice, changed the course of Snape's life.


END SPOILERS.


Please edit your posts for spoilers. Seriously, people. I threatened to ban some teenagers from my store for life for just pretending to yell out spoilers.

I agree that Duumbledore is not stupid, but I think through the first six books that he is not infallable. But I also think that if Snape were truly on the Dark Lord's side he might have done more against Harry already, but maybe he was waiting for some thing the Dark Lord would need. Before reading the last book I was incredibly unsure. I wanted to Snape to be redeemed somehow, but it would seem believable to me if he weren't.

Posts: 3936 | Registered: Jul 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
neo-dragon
Member
Member # 7168

 - posted      Profile for neo-dragon           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yeah, posting spoilers here isn't cool considering that the original poster hasn't read the book, but I'm not sure why he/she decided to make this thread now of all times. It's like publicly making your Super Bowl predictions the day after the game, and expecting no one to let slip who actually won. The cat's out of the bag. The whole world knows what happens in the last book, so the absolute worst way to avoid spoilers is to start talking about your predictions with a bunch of people who already know if they're right or not. I'm just saying, is all...
Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
stihl1
Member
Member # 1562

 - posted      Profile for stihl1   Email stihl1         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Noemon:
You know, posting spoilers in this thread is a pretty crappy thing to be doing. The original poster explicitly says that he hasn't yet read the book, and makes it clear that he's been trying to avoid spoilers.

MEC, stihl, could you at least clearly mark your spoilers as such?

Warning, my previous post contained a spoiler.
Posts: 1042 | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Alcon
Member
Member # 6645

 - posted      Profile for Alcon   Email Alcon         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
quote:Originally posted by Noemon:
You know, posting spoilers in this thread is a pretty crappy thing to be doing. The original poster explicitly says that he hasn't yet read the book, and makes it clear that he's been trying to avoid spoilers.

MEC, stihl, could you at least clearly mark your spoilers as such?

Warning, my previous post contained a spoiler.

Honestly now, no need to be a complete jerk about it.
Posts: 3295 | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
stihl1
Member
Member # 1562

 - posted      Profile for stihl1   Email stihl1         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sorry.
Posts: 1042 | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ClaudiaTherese
Member
Member # 923

 - posted      Profile for ClaudiaTherese           Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
MEC and BlueWizard, thanks for the edits.

One last favor, please -- would someone above stihl1's first post (MEC, ketchupqueen, anyone) please note that there are spoilers below, some unmarked? Thanks!

I don't care for me, but I think it's common courtesy to the first poster, and -- by default -- to OSC as well.

Posts: 14017 | Registered: May 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code™ is enabled.
UBB Code™ Images not permitted.
Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2