posted
What are your thoughts on various lyricists? Lovers of any genre of music wanted.
Favorite? Hate? Song is horrible, but lyrics are amazing? The lyricists we hate, but know are geniuses with words? Music (verses, chorus, beat) that sounds incredible, but lack good lyrics? Favorite currently popular(top 40) lyrics? Any lyricists you feel will become or are already legends? Favorite themes of lyricists?
Posts: 82 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I kind of like that song "Hey There Delilah" by the Plain White Tees, but back in my day, we considered it cheating to rhyme a word with the same word.
We'll have it good (pronounced gooooooood) ... My word is good
I'd write it all (aaaaaaaaaall) ... We'd have it all
Not for everyone because it's pretty much good ol' country music, but his lyrics are spectacular. Some funny, some depressing, some reminiscent, almost all of them significant.
(It's not surprising he's good at lyrics, his father is Larry McMurtry of Lonesome Dove fame.)
Posts: 1368 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
1. Andrew Schwab 2. Chris Cornell 3. Kurt Cobain 4. Layne Staley 5. Jerry Cantrell 6. Dallas Taylor 7. Dave Grohl 8. Freddie Mercury 9. Matthew Thiessen 10. Zack de La Rocha 11. John Cooper 12. Pete Townshend 13. Max Cavalera 14. Brian Wilson 15. Tim Rice
My top 15 lyricists. In no particular order.
Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Kurt Cobain said in several different interviews that his lyrics were basically nonsense, and he generally just filled them in once everything else was done.
I see no reason to disagree with him on that point.
quote:I kind of like that song "Hey There Delilah" by the Plain White Tees, but back in my day, we considered it cheating to rhyme a word with the same word.
It's not cheating. But it's not rhyming, either.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I didn't add any lyricists that are favorites of mine because I have too many. I don't have time right now to list them, rank them, and then critique them.
But I do have a ton of favorites.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: Kurt Cobain said in several different interviews that his lyrics were basically nonsense, and he generally just filled them in once everything else was done.
That doesn't mean they can't be good. Some of the nonsense was clever. Some of the best songs are basically a bunch of gibberish.
In example, "Bohemian Rhapsody" by Queen serves absolutely no purpose. But it was a good song with some good vocals, good music, and intriguing production to back it all up.
I don't judge lyrics on whether or not they actually say something important. Because that would eliminate a big portion of lyricists.
Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Bob Dylan, and I think that should be obvious.
Blackalicious, that man can rhyme anything, incredibly quickly, with political/cultural poigniancy, and on a whim to boot.
G. Love, just 'cause his songs make me happy.
Lyrics I hate right now: my girlfriend really likes Kelly Clarkson (*groan*) and listens to that "Because of You" song. It's all about 'because of you I'm all depressed' and 'because of you I'm lonely' and 'because of you I can't meet a man anymore.' I usually end up screaming "take some responsibility for your actions!" by the end of it.
ETA: and Paul Simon. But only when he's with Art.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
But if this thread is about lyrics, that completely ignores how the words are performed. Who cares how clever they mixed them in the music, that's a singing virtue not a writing one.
I don't really care to get in a fight with anyone about how I disklike somebody they adore. Kurt Cobain is not one of my favorite lyricists but I've found that much of the music I listen to, I listen because I love the musicianship and the singer. Occasionally I'll stop to listen to lyrics, but it takes a passenger seat to music IMO.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Kurt Cobain said in several different interviews that his lyrics were basically nonsense, and he generally just filled them in once everything else was done.
What artists say and what they actually do are often two very different things*. I have no idea if such is the case with Kurt Cobain, but I'd need to see some actual textual analysis before completely dismissing his lyrics, especially as they seem to be valued by many critics and fans.
I don't own any of Nirvana's work so I can't really comment directly on Cobain as lyricist. I do remember watching their MTV Unplugged performance several times after he killed himself and thinking that there was something there -- had a glimmer of understanding of why they became so popular.
*And this notion of just tossing out lyrics seems to be quite the popular meme among rock stars. There seems to be an aversion to giving off a whiff of having put in some effort.
Posts: 3423 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't listen to songs with horrible lyrics, so can't help you there. I think my 5 favorite listens for lyrics are
The Beatles (duh)/Paul McCartney's solo stuff Kate Wolf Stan Rogers Iris deMent Paul Simon
I like Bob Dylan's lyrics sometimes (some of them just give me a headache)-- when they're sung by someone else. I cannot stand listening to him, ever. He makes me want to shoot something. His guitar is listenable but his harmonica and voice drive me UP THE WALL.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: [qb] Kurt Cobain said in several different interviews that his lyrics were basically nonsense, and he generally just filled them in once everything else was done.
That doesn't mean they can't be good. Some of the nonsense was clever. Some of the best songs are basically a bunch of gibberish.
That's fine -- no reason those can't be great songs. It does, however, mean that he's not a great lyricist. In my opinion, of course.
quote:In example, "Bohemian Rhapsody" by Queen serves absolutely no purpose. But it was a good song with some good vocals, good music, and intriguing production to back it all up.
If you think that, you should go back to the song and listen carefully.
quote:I don't judge lyrics on whether or not they actually say something important. Because that would eliminate a big portion of lyricists.
The only way to judge a lyricist is on content and arrangement -- what they say and how they say it. There's nothing else to judge. I'm not sure what it is you're judging, but it's not lyrics.
Posts: 5462 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
BB makes a good point. Often lyrics are compared to or even equated with poetry. But although lyrics can be poetic and poetry can be lyrical, they are two different forms and what works well for one won't work for the other. This is due in large part to the performance and how the words support the music (and vice versa).
posted
Also, there is more substance to a lot of Nirvana lyrics than people think. Cobain noted that sometimes he wrote nonsense, pointless songs (like "tourettes" a song he said didn't need to be written).
But he also talked about the meaning behind some of his songs. "Serve the Servants" is basically about his parents' divorce. "Scentless Apprentice" is a musical adaptation of the novel Perfume by Patrick Suskind. "In Bloom" was making fun of people who sings lyrics to songs without knowing what they mean.
The man was more of a lyricist than some people give him credit.
Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
The lyrics to Chemical Calisthenics by Blackalicious, if anyone is interested. He amazes me frequently. The lyrics aren't quite as impressive without the beat, but still.
He truly has the Gift of Gab.
Posts: 2596 | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by vonk: Heart Shaped Box had some pretty amazing lyrics. Son of a Gun, on the other hand, did not.
"Son of a Gun" was a cover of a song by the same name performed by the band The Vaselines. The lyrics are not Kurt's fault.
Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by El JT de Spang: [qb] Kurt Cobain said in several different interviews that his lyrics were basically nonsense, and he generally just filled them in once everything else was done.
That doesn't mean they can't be good. Some of the nonsense was clever. Some of the best songs are basically a bunch of gibberish.
That's fine -- no reason those can't be great songs. It does, however, mean that he's not a great lyricist. In my opinion, of course.
quote:I don't judge lyrics on whether or not they actually say something important. Because that would eliminate a big portion of lyricists.
The only way to judge a lyricist is on content and arrangement -- what they say and how they say it. There's nothing else to judge. I'm not sure what it is you're judging, but it's not lyrics.
1st Part: Refer to my above post. I explained in more depth my analysis of his lyrics.
2nd Part: I didn't say that I don't judge content. I said that I don't judge lyrics by whether or not they say something important. They don't all have to be rip-roaring anthem rock songs protesting some war or another. Lyrics can be words arranged in a clever and fun way for the sake of being words.
I can like the lyrics to "Fergielicous" (I don't) because they're clever. That songs has nothing of substance to say to the world. It's just music. Not every band is trying to start a revolution.
I listen to a lot of Christian rock bands because I enjoy the messages inherent in their lyrics. But I don't expect every song to have some sort of message.
I think you misunderstood what I meant when I said that I don't judge lyrics on whether they say something important or not.
Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Kurt Cobain wrote lyrics? You mean his songs weren't mumbled incoherently in their entirety?
I have some of his songs on my playlist, and it has nothing to do with the lyrics. I admit I don't look for deep transcendental meaning in lyrics, though.
Posts: 3486 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
edit: Also how coincidental that as I posted that I turned the page to the magazine I was editing and its a feature on Kurt Cobain. Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
*shrugs* There are only a couple of songs on their first album (Bleach) that have lyrics that aren't at least a little bit disturbing. I like the songs "Blew", "School", "About a Girl", "Swap Meet", and "Big Cheese."
I believe that, like all musicians, he grew, matured, and progressed as a song writer. Bleach was basically garage rock. Nevermind was more of an alternative rock sound. And In Utero took elements of both and combined into something that worked.
Posts: 6026 | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh, man, how could I forget one of the best lyricists ever? Bruce "Utah" Phillips! And he's just an all-around cool guy, too-- he stipulates that all his lyrics are in the public domain and free for anyone to use, sing, or record. He's awesome.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sara Groves, closely followed by Jennifer Knapp (If you're listening to Jen, though, you'll need the lyric sheet, since enunciation isn't her strong suit.)
Posts: 438 | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Kyo of Dir en grey Darroh Sudderth of Fair to Midland Kate Bush, you can't tell me the lyrics to the Fog aren't awesome. So simple and yet so provocative and beautiful! Mmmm! Then you have Sensual World to consider, This Womna's Work, Houdini
Tori Amos's lyrics are out there insane most of the time, but they hit to the heart, like in Winter, or in Your Cloud, Your Cloud has some of the best lyrics ever.
Staind annoys me ebcause their guitars are not so bad, the vocals aren't so beastly but the lyrics SUCK! I cannot believe how much the lyrics to Right Here suck. I could write better lyrics than that. Laura Nyro was good, but her lyrics to this one song were juvenile, but the song is still good. Then you have Liz Frasier who said such RANDOM THINGS in songs to confuse everyone who listened to it. Fans loved it. Pink Floyd had some of the best lyrics, especially to Comfortably Numb. Can't go wrong with "My hands felt just liek two balloons." or "I have become Comfortably Numb" Antother reason to hate Staind is butchering the lyric "When I was a child I had a fever." It's fever! Not feeling! How can you cover one of the best songs ever and not know that? Depeche Mode's lyrics are not so bad, but the ones to I want it All are only OK., Not like One Caress or Question of Lust or Judas, ect.
Eddie Vedder was always good for good lyrics, but sometimes he'd carp to much on fame, and I am afraid Kyo would demolish him even in English songs and English just isn't his native language, but he does a not so bad job of it.
Then there is Ani DiFranco to consider...
I could go on. I fact I will This guy in Three Days Grace has a good voice, but I swear he just gets into bad relationships so he can write songs about it. What the heck is up with, "Pain I like it rough because I'd rather feel pain than nothing at all?" Not the actual lyric, but still! That's such a warped idea. And "I hate you, so why do I love you?" I guess this band = Emo. Oddly enough I like and hate these songs at the same time. These guys get so whiny, like in The Gift by Seether. This guy keeps howling ina generic voice about how afraid he is of the gift some woman or something is giving him. These folks get scared too easily and howl about being miserable too much. Now Kyo, he, even singing in full Japanese can make you FEEL his misery and pain. That guy freaks me out because he's walking tragedy, a walking open wound. This guy can make grown young men cry without knowing a word of Japanese other than sayanara.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Neil Young (My life's an open book, you read it on the radio...) Paul Simon Joni Mitchell Ira Gershwin John Lennon
Posts: 867 | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Am I going to be the first to mention Leonard Cohen? I only know the lyrics to "Hallelujah" but it's nothing short of spectacular.
Trent Reznor, particularly older stuff, can be very good, as can Maynard from Tool/APC. "Hurt", of course, comes immediately to mind for Trent.
Ed Kowalczyk of Live can ramble, but he can also write some great stuff. From "Run to the Water":
quote:For a moment we lost are minds here And thought the world was round The million mile fall from grace Somehow we missed the ground
A couple of Christian bands I have liked, Relient K and Jars of Clay, both have some nice depth, usually without pounding you over the head. From JoC's "Five Candles":
quote:A promise or a dare I would jump if I knew you'd catch me Staring over the edge I can't tell if you'll be here for me
I close my eyes and make a wish Turn out the lights and take a breath Pray that when the wick is burned You would say that it's all about love
(I'll let someone else do Neil Peart)
Posts: 3846 | Registered: Apr 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh, Tracy Chapman most definitely rocks at the lyric-writing. I haven't thought of her in a while. *goes to dig out cd or something*
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I had a discussion like this with my boy a week ago because he doesn't understand why I love the Barenaked Ladies so much. He's a jazz fan and so he's turned off by the pop-sound and lyrics. I agree that some parts of the music aren't all that complex (though I've got something bad for the bassist Jim Creeggan who is a great lyricist too) but I love them for the lyrics.
I just love the word play, the irony, the ability to hide so much darkness under catchy radio-ready melodies. I prefer Steven Page's writing over Ed Robertson's, but Page seems to either be brilliant or alittle off the mark, while Ed is consistently okay.
Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
You got to love the Lyrics to One Week It has a whole bunch of stuff I like! But Jazz had some greeeeeeeat lyrics. They just don't write them like that anymore. But you have to admit some of the lyrics are creepy. Like Billie Holiday singing about her man cheating on her and beating on her. Or Bessie Smith (blues) saying she'd rather her man hit her than quit her. Creepy... Unhealthy... In fact, too many love songs are like that, filled with unhealthy lyrics and sentiments mostly expressed by women. They sound so clingy and co-dependent. You got to love the lyrics to a song like The Way I want to Touch you by Captain and Tennelle. That song rocks and Miracles by Jefferson Starship. Really delightfully sexual. It's hard for folks to write sexual without sounding yucky.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
vonk: I AM SO GLAD SOMEONE ELSE LIKES BLACKALICIOUS!!! I am currently working out a dance piece for Sky is Falling. Possibly my favorite hip hop song of all time.
I think Outkast are also great lyricists (YKK on your zipper), as is Ludacris.
Tegan and Sara have _great_ lyrics. Very on point, as far as being a twenty something single girl goes.
Rufus Wainwright... are there clouds and stuff in Hell?
Ani DiFranco; Feist.
Here is an excerpt from Fire Door, by Ani. I opened the fire door to four lips None of which were mine Kissing Tightened my belt around my hips Where your hands were missing And stepped out into the cold Collar high Under the slate grey sky The air was smoking and the streets were dry And I wasn't joking when I said Good Bye Magazine quality men talking on the corner French, no less much less of them then us So why do I feel like something's been rearranged?
posted
My favorite lyricist? Cat Stevens. They're not all that deep or elaborate, but... I dunno, his songs go right to the soul.
Posts: 1831 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Aww, I was scrolling down and thought I was going to get to be the first person to say Jeff Buckley, oh well.
Paul Simon Paul McCartney Tim Rice Bob Dylan Pete Townshend Brian Wilson Billy Joel Barenaked Ladies And how has nobody mentioned Elton John Mary Carpenter, as stated above, is great.
"And who ruled more at lyrics than Cole Porter? I love Cole Porter." I have an amazing album of Aretha Franklin singing Cole Porter
Posts: 2705 | Registered: Sep 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I adore Sia, but I HATE the lyrics to sweet potatoes. They grate on me so hard, which is too bad, because her voice is so visceral and otherworldly. I feel like all the songs on Colour the Small One are good by merit of her voice, but I feel that only half of them have strong lyrics.
Posts: 3936 | Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
First, I just want to say I hate Kurt Cobain as much as I can hate someone I've never met . I think his music is complete crap and he has basically no talent as a guitarist or a lyricist. Yes I know, people say that when you're that famous you must be doing something right, but I think what he was doing right has absolutely nothing to do with his muscial abilities. And I hate what he represented and his influence on his generation. I blame emo crap on him.
No offense, Steve.
Anyways, back to the OP, I second Bob Dylan. All Along the Watchtower was perfect in every way. And I'll throw in David Bowie. Some of his lyrics were strange, but they were pretty awesome and you can always understand the lyrics when you hear them in his songs (the way lyrics are supposed to be heard), which makes them a thousand times better then when you read them off some website.
Also, I might get made fun of a little for this, but Death Cab for Cutie writes some good lyrics. And you can hear them perfectly.
Edit: If we're going to talk about Nirvana's lyrics then this video should be watched.
posted
And Frank Zappa also had strange, but kind of cool lyrics. Dancin' Fool had very clever and amusing words, IMO. Muffin Man has my favorite "spoken" lyrics ever at the beginning.
Posts: 2054 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally Posted by: Synesthesia This guy in Three Days Grace has a good voice, but I swear he just gets into bad relationships so he can write songs about it. What the heck is up with, "Pain I like it rough because I'd rather feel pain than nothing at all?" Not the actual lyric, but still! That's such a warped idea. And "I hate you, so why do I love you?" I guess this band = Emo. Oddly enough I like and hate these songs at the same time.
I've never read any confirmation, but a lot of people think "Pain" is a song about cutters, or less specifically, self-injury. At the very least, a lot of the SI community identifies heavily with the song. It might sound like a warped idea to you, but there's a lot of people out there, many of them suffering who feel just the way the song describes, or near to it, or at least can empathize with it. To them the song is cathartic.
I'm not always sure who writes the lyrics to songs, but I like a lot of Nirvana and Barenaked Ladies songs, but by far my favorite music, for the sound and the lyrics comes from the Dave Matthews Band. There's a special magic in the way he weaves words and music.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
Leonard Cohen (though my favorite Hallelujah is Rufus Wainwright's version) Dolly Parton Johnny Cash June Carter Cash Suzanne Vega Hazel Dickens
Posts: 3037 | Registered: Jan 2002
| IP: Logged |
Azure Ray. If you haven’t heard of them or listened to them, (which is likely, I don’t think they’re well known) you should check out their self-titled album, especially the song Safe and Sound. Or their EP November, for the song I Will Do These Things. I think they are the only band that has moved me to tears, ever. (well, outside of Weezer, their song Butterfly hits me very hard).
Moving away from judging lyrics by how strongly they move me, I would like to mention Van Morrison. The song Gloria is, in my mind, the embodiment of rock and roll. In fact, the next time some fool tries to pass off Stairway to Heaven as the greatest rock and roll song of all time, I’m going to slap them and say, “Van Morrison, Gloria.” I enjoy Patti Smith’s version of the song the most.
Speaking of which, Patti Smith is solid. I love her cover of Hey Joe, in which she changes the lyrics dramatically. Her songs Boy Cried Wolf, Land, Spell, and Because the Night come to mind. Because the Night was written by Bruce Springsteen and Patti Smith, and I feel I should mention Springsteen is pretty good with words as well.
I’m a little amazed at how many people haven’t been mentioned…
This line had a pretty big influence on my friends and me when we were little punk hooligans.
The Offspring – Tehran
Will you ever wonder If the man that's in your sights Ever kissed his girl goodbye?
I realize now that it’s a cliché that many anti-war songs and books use, but at the time, it seemed life-altering profound to us. Oh, and I do enjoy slant rhymes. The song was first released on their self titled album back in 1989, and I was amused when they re-released it with slight changes to fit the war today.
The Quick Recap (or for those to lazy to read it all): 1. Azure Ray. 2. Weezer – Butterfly and Only in Dreams 3. The Cure – Just Like Heaven 4. Patti Smith 5. Van Morrison – Gloria especially 6. Bruce Springsteen
I wish someone would do a good cover of Ring of Fire. I love the lyrics, but I can’t stand the music.
Posts: 247 | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Leonard Cohen. Yes! Jeff Buckley. I adore him. Rufus Wainwright and his dad, too, Loudon. There's a Japanese guitarist/singer named Miyavi who seems to write some pretty witty and creative stuff, but I'm an imperfect judge due to not being fluent in Japanese.
Has Fiona Apple been mentioned? I think she's downright genius. Consistently and absolutely brilliant. One bit that came to mind when seeing this thread is in "Parting Gift":
quote:I took off my glasses while you were yelling at me once More than once So's not to see you see me react Should've put 'em Should've put 'em on again So I could see you see me sincerely yellin' back
I'm not even a big fan of 'angry' relationship songs, but I still love her stuff because I feel like her writing is intelligent.
I was staring at the sky, just looking for a star To pray on, or wish on, or something like that I was having a sweet fix of a daydream of a boy Whose reality I knew, was a hopeless to be had But then the dove of hope began its downward slope And I believed for a moment that my chances Were approaching to be grabbed But as it came down near, so did a weary tear I thought it was a bird, but it was just a paper bag Hunger hurts, and I want him so bad, oh it kills 'Cause I know I'm a mess he don't wanna clean up I got to fold 'cause these hands are too shaky to hold Hunger hurts, but starving works, when it costs too much to love
I also have to agree on the mention of Tori Amos' early works. Some beautiful lyrics there.
My scream got lost in a paper cup You think there's a heaven Where some screams have gonePosts: 3936 | Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Songs that are too much about lyrics at the expense of the music don't usually appeal to me. And reading lyrics on their own without listening to them in the context of the song also doesn't appeal. The music matters most, in other words. But some songs have lyrics that really enhance the music and make it way better. And also, instrumental music can be awesome but unless it's classical music, I usually prefer music to have some sort of voice in it.
So, given all that, the lyricists I love most are also the musicians I love most. Tool, Nine Inch Nails, Radiohead, Carlos Vives, etc.
Posts: 6246 | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally Posted by: Synesthesia This guy in Three Days Grace has a good voice, but I swear he just gets into bad relationships so he can write songs about it. What the heck is up with, "Pain I like it rough because I'd rather feel pain than nothing at all?" Not the actual lyric, but still! That's such a warped idea. And "I hate you, so why do I love you?" I guess this band = Emo. Oddly enough I like and hate these songs at the same time.
I've never read any confirmation, but a lot of people think "Pain" is a song about cutters, or less specifically, self-injury. At the very least, a lot of the SI community identifies heavily with the song. It might sound like a warped idea to you, but there's a lot of people out there, many of them suffering who feel just the way the song describes, or near to it, or at least can empathize with it. To them the song is cathartic.
Ok, from that perspective, that makes the song a lot better, and it's not so bad in the first time. *borderline cutter*
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Angst]](graemlins/angst.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
. I think his music is complete crap and he has basically no talent as a guitarist or a lyricist. Yes I know, people say that when you're that famous you must be doing something right, but I think what he was doing right has absolutely nothing to do with his muscial abilities. And I hate what he represented and his influence on his generation. I blame emo crap on him.
