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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Hey, Mormons! Irritated by September Dawn? (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Hey, Mormons! Irritated by September Dawn?
Speed
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Well for once, you're not alone. It opened at 23rd place on its wide release weekend, making a little over half a million dollars at the box office. It's sitting at a cozy 16% at Rotten Tomatoes, and it's generated some of the most entertaining reviews I've read since Battlefield Earth.

Here's my favorite. Share and enjoy!

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Hobbes
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Personally, I thought that this little tidbit was the best on the screen:

quote:
Remember the Ethan Hawke novel everybody hated? Now hes made it into a movie!
Hobbes [Smile]
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Samuel Bush
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It's rated R so we Mormons are not alowed to see it. Dang!
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Tatiana
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It sounds sooooooooooo bad from the reviews. I don't think I'll be seeing it, (though I do watch R-rated movies if I think they'll be good.)
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Tatiana
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For anyone who wants to know more about the history of the Mountain Meadows Massacre, here's the recent article about it in the church magazine, the Ensign.
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Samprimary
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Hah. The LDS already takes too much crap to deserve a blatantly anti-Mormon movie, but when an anti-Mormon movie is made which is also really really bad it's a good thing in the end.
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T_Smith
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"
By the way, I think the first verse from the Book of Moroni is "KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!"

Hehehe.

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Javert Hugo
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I was wondering how long this would take to show up. [Smile]

The answer: No. It's apparently such a terribly-made movie that approving of it would make anyone writhe in shame, and the consistent message from the reviewers around the country is that it is clearly a poorly-executed anti-Mormon screed.

Not even worth the bother of being annoyed by it.

However, I have hugely enjoyed the reviews. Bad movies really bring out the poetry in some writers.

My favorite: http://www.nypost.com/seven/08242007/entertainment/movies/pulpit_massacre_has_whiff_of_p.htm

quote:
When the settlers started mumbling, "I have a bad feeling about this place," I had a bad feeling that the screenwriters were so dumb they didn't even know they were ripping off "Star Wars." Then various characters experienced flashbacks by scrunching their foreheads while scenes from bygone days were superimposed over their pensive faces, a technique last used in Kodak commercials in 1977.

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Javert Hugo
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Incidentally, while the event itself definitely took place, the character played by Jon Voight is fictional.

You know, I think...I think a well-done movie of it could be wonderful. How did this happen? Fellow Americans who had been persecuted for their religious beliefs and had been driven out of the United States became what they fled and violated the core of what the religion they sacrificed everything to follow taught. I'd really love to see how that happened.

In the Book of Mormon, one of my all-time favorite verses talked about the war made some of the people softer and more humble, more inclined to follow God, and the same war made some of the people harder and led them to reject their religion. A movie about that could be great.

Now I halfway want to try it myself.

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Jon Boy
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Tangential question: When was the last time Jon Voight was in anything good?

Wait, never mind. I remembered that he was in Holes a few years ago. That was pretty good.

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mr_porteiro_head
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Holes was going to be my answer.
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BlackBlade
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Is Deliverance a good movie? He was in that one and they mentioned it in one of the reviews of this movie.

edit: Also if he never gives us any good movies it's all counterbalanced by the fact he gave the world Angelina Jolie. [Hail]

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Jon Boy
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For a minute all that was coming to mind was Anaconda, Bratz, and Transformers (though I haven't seen the last two).
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Javert Hugo
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It's the Heart of Darkness with rape, murder, vicious stereotypes and what is reportedly an incredibly catchy sountrack.
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Enigmatic
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I saw a trailer for this, and besides the obvious crappiness I thought it was funny that the Movie Trailer Voice said something about religious leaders covering up this horrible event for years "...UNTIL NOW!"
Yeah, because none of us had ever heard about it and it's not in a ton of American History textbooks or anything.
Worst. Cover-up. EVER.

--Enigmatic

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Belle
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quote:
It's the Heart of Darkness with rape, murder, vicious stereotypes and what is reportedly an incredibly catchy sountrack.
Sign me up! I'll watch anything if it has an incredibly catchy soundtrack.

Sadly, I think that IS a view some people hold.

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Goody Scrivener
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quote:
Originally posted by Enigmatic:
I saw a trailer for this, and besides the obvious crappiness I thought it was funny that the Movie Trailer Voice said something about religious leaders covering up this horrible event for years "...UNTIL NOW!"
Yeah, because none of us had ever heard about it and it's not in a ton of American History textbooks or anything.
Worst. Cover-up. EVER.

--Enigmatic

I have to admit that I had never heard of the Mountain Meadows Massacre before Hatrack became part of my life. My first exposure to that was the recent PBS special on Mormons, which I wouldn't have watched if I didn't *know* you guys n gals here. Totally not covered at all in our history classes.


And T_Smith .... *thwap* [Big Grin]

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Strider
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quote:
Is Deliverance a good movie? He was in that one and they mentioned it in one of the reviews of this movie.
It's a classic. But not exactly a family friendly movie. Be prepared for a pretty serious movie, with a few extremely uncomfortable moments.
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BlackBlade
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Would I find it in the Drama section of Blockbuster? Or does it have enough guns/explosions to be possibly in Action?
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Strider
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no, it'll be in drama. there are no explosions and the gun use is very very minimal.
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BlackBlade
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Just as a heads up can you remember what it's rated and why? You mentioned some uncomfortable scenes. What kind of discomfort are we talking about? Is the swearing profuse to the point of being over the top? Nudity?
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Javert Hugo
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Here is a detailed description of the movie: http://www.filmsite.org/deli.html
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BlackBlade
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Thanks for the link, looks like I might be watching this one, but not on the date I'm going on with the wife tonight.

[ September 01, 2007, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: BlackBlade ]

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maui babe
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
but not on my wife and I's date tonight.

Now you're just messing with us.
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lem
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quote:
Worst. Cover-up. EVER.
Admit it, that is supposed to be read with the Comic Book Guy voice.
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by maui babe:
quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
but not on my wife and I's date tonight.

Now you're just messing with us.
You should have seen the original unedited statement. Put it in context right after Javert Hugo's post.

"Thanks for the link, looks like I might be watching this one, but not on our date tonight."

But I suppose that's a different kind of messing then the apostrophe you were talking about.

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katharina
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We saw the movie yesterday, and Matt wrote a review of it.

quote:
All of the scheming, plotting, politics and so forth are scrapped in favor of Trent Ford proving himself to be a horse whisperer and riding around on a finicky stallion. This goes on for about the first third of the film, by which point we suddenly lurch into the massacre, which apparently has been planned and organized while Cain was filming the horse stuff.

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mr_porteiro_head
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quote:
Also if he never gives us any good movies it's all counterbalanced by the fact he gave the world Angelina Jolie
I don't know what people see in her.

---

Kat -- why the switching of screennames?

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Icarus
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Can I get "using a different computer" in the pool?
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ElJay
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I'm in for "just decided it was time to go back." [Smile]
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Tatiana
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I'll take "to avoid confusion with just-plain-Javert" [Smile]
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lem
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quote:
The director, Christopher Cain, certainly deserves some partial credit for some of the achievements above (particularly, the overlays). But he also attains some sort of transcendent glory of his own, particularly when he strives to achieve art and leaps in front of the camera waving his arms and screaming, Look at me! Im a good director!
[ROFL]

Great Writing!!

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enjeeo
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I'm a member, and I'd certainly never heard of the massacre until this year. I'm glad the article was published and I'm glad it acknowledges the unjustified nature of the crime. I'd like to believe that article's suggestion that it occurred due to fear of attack and misunderstanding, but I have to admit a part of me wonders if they were just wrapped up in some religious fervour and seeing themselves like the House of Israel descending on the land of Canaan and killing every inhabitant. But it's not like we're ever going to know for sure.
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pooka
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Heh, I love how the ad is for Tomb Raider.

I made a real post but it got eaten.

Wagon trains passed through all the time, so I'd chalk it up to not the bloodlust, but rather to a unique set of circumstances. I've read a lot about it over the years, and the Ensign article is really quite good. Do they include the Feds reneggin on their truce pardon? I don't think they did, because that would smack of blameshifting.

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
[QB] [QUOTE]Also if he never gives us any good movies it's all counterbalanced by the fact he gave the world Angelina Jolie.

quote:

I don't know what people see in her.

I won't try to fix your obvious insanity Porter. I wouldn't date her, her personality would clash with mine. But she's gorgeous, and she actually spends a good amount of her income/time helping other people. I like her as an actress now, whereas I did not before.
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TomDavidson
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quote:
I don't know what people see in her.
*waves his hand in front of Porter's eyes, checking for signs of blindness*
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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by TomDavidson:
quote:
I don't know what people see in her.
*waves his hand in front of Porter's eyes, checking for signs of blindness*
Seriously! Of course maybe when he says, "see in" he means the look of her internal organs leaves something to be desired. I mean some people prefer just a hint of burgundy when it comes to livers, and perhaps just alittle bit more roundness than is usual in the kidneys.
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Puffy Treat
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She has a homely spleen.
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Occasional
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Back on Track: I would be irritated by the movie if so many didn't pan it as "ham-fisted" and anti-Mormon. That gives me hope that at least at some people are generally level headed. A number of Mormons (regardless of what detractors have insinuated) believe a movie about the Mountain Meadows Massacre would actually be interesting if far less vitriol against the LDS Church or "Zod" Brigham Young were shown. It would be a great examination of how otherwise peaceful people can become raving violent lunatics. Then, it can look at how such acts of violence can forever haunt those on both sides of the conflict, innocent or not. In fact, I actually thought such a picture (as someone such as myself who does support it) could have an anti-Iraq war message. The more you bang the drums of war or rumors of war (for both sides), the more something everyone regrets could happen.

What really bothers me, however, is that it has reinforced the Christian Right's dislike of Mormons and Mormonism. What is hilarious is, and I kid you not, there are Christians who literally believe that the Mormons had made some kind of deal with all the movie critics. That is the kind of fear and hatred some Christians have about the Mormons. And, worse yet, this movie has actually increased the Christian anti-Mormon propaganda machine that has been relatively low key since Mitt Romney entered the Presidential race. It is as if this movie had somehow given them a permission slip to be as nasty and dismissive as they usually are among themselves.

That not everyone is buying into it, although some are, just brings out their own "persecution complex" since they are only trying to show everyone the TRUTH about those evil Mormon "cult" followers. After all, Mormons are only playing nice until the perfect time when the swords will be coming out to kill everyone who doesn't convert. It's TRUE, just look at Mountain Meadows Massacre for proof. I am just joking, but the Christian anti-Mormons aren't.

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Enigmatic
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quote:
Originally posted by lem:
quote:
Worst. Cover-up. EVER.
Admit it, that is supposed to be read with the Comic Book Guy voice.
Clearly I am no match for your incredible powers of deduction. Someone tell Batman that there is a new "world's greatest detective" please.

[Hat]

--Enigmatic

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SenojRetep
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:
Also if he never gives us any good movies it's all counterbalanced by the fact he gave the world Angelina Jolie

I don't know what people see in her.

Seconded. I think she's unattractive, untalented, and that her charity work smacks of vanity rather than compassion. Not to be totally dismissive...I just can't think of anything about her personally or professionally that I like.
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Icarus
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If you saw Girl, Interrupted, you'd know she can actually be a quite talented actress.
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SenojRetep
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I saw Girl, Interrupted. While I thought her character was interesting, I didn't find her acting anything special. In fact, she was more a distraction than anything.
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enjeeo
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quote:
Originally posted by SenojRetep:
Seconded. I think she's unattractive, untalented, and that her charity work smacks of vanity rather than compassion. Not to be totally dismissive...I just can't think of anything about her personally or professionally that I like.

Attractiveness is relative, so even though I think she's outrageously goodlooking (and I'm a straight girl) I'll leave that one aside. I cannot agree that she's untalented and she certainly has the screen presence of the old Hollywood actresses.

But where I really disagree with you is in regards to her charity work. When she speaks about that work in interviews and other settings, she always talks about either the plight of the people in need, or the work of the organisation. She never talks about her own actions, and rather than setting up her own little projects (like say Oprah) she works through organisations already effective in the area. She is an active and devoted UN Goodwill Ambassador.

Lately it seems to have become trendy among celebrities to adopt from overseas, but of course this was something she was committed to long ago. I saw her Inside The Actors Studio interview, and when she described finding her son there was a lovely humility and such an evident desire to be a good parent. I wish I could find the transcript to quote one part of it, but my browser is being weird and not loading certain pages. She was talking about her 'wild' youth and saying that yes she was self-destructive, etc, but that going overseas and actually seeing what other people deal with in their much more difficult lives made her realise that she had no reason to ever complain about her lot again. It was a huge reality check that changed the direction of her life.

I hate the media circus surrounding Jolie and Pitt and I definitely get sick of seeing their faces on every magazine cover, but for the woman herself I have a lot of respect. I like her honesty and her pragmatic outlook. I admire her work and her devotion to it.
quote:
Originally posted by SenojRetep:
I saw Girl, Interrupted. While I thought her character was interesting, I didn't find her acting anything special. In fact, she was more a distraction than anything.

A distraction indeed, from Winona Ryder's weak, whiny character. Some people referred to it as 'stealing the show', and the Oscar people certainly agreed.
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Javert Hugo
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Icky wins the pool. [Smile]

Hilariously, the screenwriter is now alleging a conspiracy started by the Church to give the movie bad reviews. She's basing this on the remarkable uniformity of the reviews: everyone hated it.

You know, even when it is obviously propoganda (the angelic Protestants wear white and beige and pray humbly and give away livestock because a stranger took a fancy to it while the villianized Mormons wear black, don't know how to love, and pray ritualistically for the saintly ones' destruction) I still feel for someone when their baby crashes and burns.

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Javert
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quote:
Originally posted by Javert Hugo:
Hilariously, the screenwriter is now alleging a conspiracy started by the Church to give the movie bad reviews. She's basing this on the remarkable uniformity of the reviews: everyone hated it.

You mean the Mormons got to Roger Ebert? Noooooooo!

[Wink]

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Javert Hugo
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Wow - in the second week, the box office take dropped 79% with a per-screen average of about $400.

http://boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/?yr=2007&wknd=35a&p=.htm

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BlackBlade
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quote:
Originally posted by Javert Hugo:
Wow - in the second week, the box office take dropped 79% with a per-screen average of about $400.

http://boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/?yr=2007&wknd=35a&p=.htm

Must be them Mormons and their nation wide theatre boycott.
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erosomniac
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackBlade:
quote:
Originally posted by Javert Hugo:
Wow - in the second week, the box office take dropped 79% with a per-screen average of about $400.

http://boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/?yr=2007&wknd=35a&p=.htm

Must be them Mormons and their nation wide theatre boycott.
nation wide theatre boycott CONSPIRACY
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SenojRetep
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quote:
Originally posted by enjeeo:
I cannot agree that she's untalented and she certainly has the screen presence of the old Hollywood actresses.


I get nothing from her "screen presence" and I have to wonder what "old Hollywood actresses" your comparing her to. The "screen presence" she most reminds me of is Clancy Brown. Maybe all that will change when/if I see "A Mighty Heart." But I doubt it.

quote:
Originally posted by enjeeo:
I like her honesty and her pragmatic outlook. I admire her work and her devotion to it.

It's pretty obvious that she admires it, too. Maybe it has nothing to do with her that she is the face of international aid, but every interview I've seen with her has made me feel like it was more about Angelina than anyone else.
quote:
A distraction indeed, from Winona Ryder's weak, whiny character. Some people referred to it as 'stealing the show', and the Oscar people certainly agreed.
I meant a distraction from the story. Her performance was like one member of a choir singing loudly and slightly off-key; it inhibited the overall effect of presenting the art. As for the Oscar win, I think Academy awards are primarily a measurement of the zeitgeist and not of cinematic quality. Reference Titanic, Forrest Gump, Chicago, ...
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