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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » I Raved about it on the other side, But it's Still Bothering Me.

   
Author Topic: I Raved about it on the other side, But it's Still Bothering Me.
Synesthesia
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I didn't notice this part when I read Children of the Mind years ago.
This line is driving me crazy. I can ignore most of the stuff that bothered me about that series, but not this.

"I stayed with the wrong man," Said Novinha.
"No, You stayed with the r ight one. Your Libo, he had a wife and other children-she was the one, they were the ones who had a right to claim him. You stayed with another man for your children's sake, even though they hated him somtimes, they also loved him, and even though in some ways he was weak, in other ways he was strong. It was good for you to have him for their sake. It was a kind of protection for them all along."

As I said on the other side, maybe it's silly of me to quibble over lines in books, but this isn't a healthy concept.
Abuse in a marriage not only hurts the battered wife, but also the children, as it was shown in Speaker of the Dead. It poisons the family.
If a man is abusing his wife, how is it healthy for the children that she stay with him? Sure the marriage stays in place, that's all well and good, but what about the family and how it effects them?
If children grow up in an abusive home they tend to internalize the concept that abuse is OK, that it's normal. That doesn't make for a healthy family dynamic.
I'm not saying Card is condoning abuse, but this concept isn't healthy and needs to be removed from the mainstream altogether. Abusive husbands do not change unless they decide to change. No matter what a woman who is being abused does, she cannot change her husband into the ideal man. It just doesn't happen. Her daughters may grow up seeking out abusive mates, her sons may learn that abuse is acceptable.

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BlackBlade
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I forget the name of the man who fathered Novinha's children. But I think Card was saying that he may not have been stellar but he was A father.

IMO some men make average fathers, some make horrible fathers, and some make wonderful fathers. Obviously degrees exist all along the spectrum. If somebody is close to the average line, that is still better then a fatherless household.

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Synesthesia
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Not if the father is abusive towards the mother, and he really was quite verbally abusive towards Miro as well.
You can't just have any male as a father figure, they also have to treat their wife with respect as a good example for the children. OSC often talks about how marriage is an example for the children of how to behave when they have families of their own. You just can't have a healthy family with abuse, even if the father wins father of the year and does all of the good parental stuff with his children.

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Katarain
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That line was a quote, which means that it was meant by the fictional speaker, not necessarily the author. And it's not necessarily an all-time truth or wisdom. I don't think it's promoting staying with an abusive spouse. You have to take "voice" into account. (and fiction)
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Puffy Treat
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quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
but this concept isn't healthy and needs to be removed from the mainstream altogether.

So, you're saying we must decide what stories authors can and can't be allowed to write, because portraying something in fiction is the same as advocating it?
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Nathan2006
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Perhaps Valentine was simply saying what was necesary to get Novinha to tell Ender that she (Novinha) was willing to let his auia go to Peter, because if Novinha hadn't told Ender taht, Ender would never had been able to leave, and Peter and Young Val's bodies would have dissolved into dust, and Jane would never be able to manage FTL travel again.

<Gasp>

That's my theory, anyway.

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neo-dragon
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A character's views don't necessarily reflect the author's views. And ignoring an issue or idea in fiction won't make it go away in real life.
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Synesthesia
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quote:
Originally posted by Puffy Treat:
quote:
Originally posted by Synesthesia:
but this concept isn't healthy and needs to be removed from the mainstream altogether.

So, you're saying we must decide what stories authors can and can't be allowed to write, because portraying something in fiction is the same as advocating it?
Not really, but OSC through this series often possesses Valentine, puts her on a Soapbox and uses her to express his views, such as that part where Valentine observed Miro and Ouando? working together and thought about how good it was that they avoided having sex because they had such self control.
I personally think they were too busy to get busy and agree that under the circumstances it was really GOOD that they didn't do anything.

I'm not saying he necessarily endorses such a thing, but it's not a bad thing to point out ideas and concepts that make their way into stories that are unhealthy. OSC is a firm believer in marriages staying together and divorce having a negative impact on society, but there are degrees and exceptions, abuse is one of them. Things in stories a person doesn't aggree with are useful for discussion because if you don't discuss something like this, it puts it back underground and that doesn't help one bit.

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