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I often reflect on how much valuable ink could have been saved if the people who systematised grammar had only thought of using "First form", "Second form", and "Third form" instead of "Masculine", "Feminine", "Neutral". However, I think Glenn may actually have been saying that ALH (heh, that's the Alarm Handler in BaBar-speak, but I digress) actually means 'woman', or 'female god', or some such, rather than having the feminine grammatical form. I have no idea if this is correct or not, of course.
In any case, even if such an assertion were true, you could not reason from there to "Elohim is formed from ALH and IM". There are only so many syllables; that one of them is also a word in its own right does not mean that you can assign its meaning to any other word in which the syllable happens to appear! You might as well assert that 'that' is formed from 'the' and 'at', or that 'assert' is formed from 'ass' with the suffix '-er', thus meaning "someone who makes an ass of himself". This is mind-reading across three millennia, apparently in support of a particular religious agenda; in other words, it is just as reliable as any other form of necromancy.
Perhaps I ought to say that I still think, based on the archeological evidence, that the Jews at some point did worship a mother goddess along with Yahweh; I just don't think word games prove any such thing.
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: I am sad for you, Lisa. Jews have been greatly favored and privileged, but because of your own unbelief you have cheated yourselves out of so much more. So much more you could understand. So much more you could enjoy in a closer relationship with God. So much more hope.
I'm tempted to whistle you for proselytizing. Instead, I'll reply on your own level. I'll probably get whistled myself for doing so, and maybe this thread will get locked. But you seem to be in great need of a wake-up call.
First of all, we do not have "unbelief". Rather, we believe in the truth, while you believe in a lie. You wouldn't even have the Bible had we not preserved it, and yet you have the temerity to try and tell us what it says and means?
Our relationship with God is privileged. Yours exists only in potential. And the potential is great. But you choose to take refuge in fantasies. I don't mean to demean fantasies. I read science fiction and fantasy, and I enjoy them a lot. For example, I enjoyed Steven Brust's To Reign in Heaven, in which he presents the fable of Lucifer and the war in Heaven. It's fun, and I've read it more than once. But it's contrary to the truth given us by God, so it's not to be taken seriously.
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: I realize the mistreatment of you by the Christian majority throughout the Christian era has prejudiced you against seeing many obvious truths in the Bible, that are so easy for us to see.
In fact, it's seemed like a nightmare. Like letting the inmates out and having them run things. You make up an idolatrous fantasy, and then kill us because we're loyal to God and the truth. What could be more nightmarish?
But just because you're not trying to burn us alive right now, Ron, doesn't mean that you've really changed all that much. You still cling to the same sad fantasy, despite the fact that the truth is readily available to you.
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: But I trust that God yet has a way of saving even people in your unique situation.
"Saving", forsooth. God is not the "malign thug" you clearly believe Him to be. We are not born into spiritual debt that requires "saving". We are all born with free will. We can choose to do right and we can choose to do wrong. We don't require your "salvation", Ron. Nor do you. It's a cross between emotional blackmail and a snipe hunt. All you need to do is obey God. Instead, you blaspheme Him.
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: He must still regard the Jews as His special friends, because of the way they have stood so faithfully for the Sabbath through the ages, and because of the way they have preserved the Scriptures so carefully. Whenever someone expresses doubt that the weekly cycle has been preserved intact since Biblical times, Adventists like me only have to point to the Jews, and note that they have never lost track of the Sabbath. When people express doubt that the Scriptures could be maintained accurately for thousands of years, all believers today can point to the faithful integrity of the Jewish scribes, and the creative methods they employed to ensure accurate copying.
We've done a lot more than just copy words on parchment, Ron. The Torah that God gave us is a lot more than that.
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: You Jews have been a blessing to us, and some of us do appreciate it. To a large extent, your suffering and sacrifices have been for us--even if too often they were caused by us, too. I for one choose to think well of you, despite how you may exasperate us now and then when we try to reason with you. See you in heaven. We can sort things out then.
We were despised and forsaken of men. We were wounded because of your transgressions, and crushed because of your iniquities. We were oppressed, though we humbled ourselves and opened not our mouths, as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before her shearers is dumb, yea, we opened not our mouths. By oppression and judgment we were taken away. We were numbered with the transgressors, yet we bore the sins of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
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posted
And behold, there was a great surprise in the land, because KoM decided midway through his sentence that he didn't really want to get banned just to make some cheap shots at Lisa expense. For yea, verily, she is not worth it.
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Lisa, you do not have faith in the inspiration of your own Scriptures. You will say different, that you have SOME faith, in VARYING degrees of inspiration. And that is exactly what I meant by unbelief. God inspired your Scriptures, and they are a lot more valuable than you seem to know.
Too often, too many Jews get snippy even when we Christians are trying to be nice to you. There is no need for this. Does it really make you feel better to rail against us? Surely you cannot blame me for seeing things from my viewpoint. And from my viewpoint, I trust that the Lord can save you as He does me, and we will be able to sort these matters out in the clarity and sanity and peacefulness of heaven. If you cannot accept that, then there is nothing more that I can give you.
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quote:To a large extent, your suffering and sacrifices have been for us--even if too often they were caused by us, too. I for one choose to think well of you, despite how you may exasperate us now and then when we try to reason with you.
These sentences cannot go reasonably together.
Let's translate this in terms that really don't change the meaning, but illustrate just why Ron isn't 'trying to be nice':
"Look, honey, I'm grateful for all the sacrifices you've made. Your job, putting up with me smacking you around for years, my cheating on you and lying about you to other people, all that stuff. And even though you still annoy the hell outta me now, I'll be the bigger man and think well of you when you're being stupid."
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Rakeesh, you are not as perceptive as you seem to think you are, and you certainly are not helping with your misrepresentations.
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Rakeesh is almost exactly as perceptive as he thinks he is. And if you don't realize why Jews "get snippy" when you are "trying to be nice" in the fashion above, you're not.
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Rakeesh is completely mistaken, and so are you, Tom. What do you know of these matters? Please butt out.
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Lisa, you do not have faith in the inspiration of your own Scriptures. You will say different, that you have SOME faith, in VARYING degrees of inspiration. And that is exactly what I meant by unbelief. God inspired your Scriptures, and they are a lot more valuable than you seem to know.
He did a lot more than merely "inspire" them, Ron. He dictated the first 5 books, word for word. He spoke to the prophets. And He inspired the writers of the remaining books.
And I know that they are of inestimable value. I also know that they are a tiny drop in the vast sea of knowledge that God gave us.
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Too often, too many Jews get snippy even when we Christians are trying to be nice to you.
"Nice". Heh. Your "niceness" reminds me of when the Pope had the gall to "forgive" us. Spare me your "niceness".
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: There is no need for this. Does it really make you feel better to rail against us? Surely you cannot blame me for seeing things from my viewpoint.
I can, Ron. I truly can. And I do. I blame you for not only ignoring the truth, but for vilifying it, or damning it with faint praise.
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: And from my viewpoint, I trust that the Lord can save you as He does me, and we will be able to sort these matters out in the clarity and sanity and peacefulness of heaven. If you cannot accept that, then there is nothing more that I can give you.
And was I asking for anything from you, Ron? There's nothing to be saved from.
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Let me be clearer, Ron: whether you intend it or not, your communications to Lisa (and, I can only assume, to all Jews of your acquaintance on this topic) are smug and self-righteous in tone. You may not perceive this. This is, however, how they sound. When I read them, I get this mental image of you attempting to smile beatifically while patting the nearest Jew on his or her cute little head. And I'm not even Jewish.
So, yeah, I can understand why a Jew might "get snippy" when you take that tone. If you can't, you are less perceptive than we are.
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Rakeesh is completely mistaken, and so are you, Tom. Please butt out.
Are you under the misapprehension that this is some sort of private hunting preserve for you, Ron? Rakeesh and Tom sometimes agree with me and sometimes don't. In this case, they may not (probably don't, in fact) agree with me, but that doesn't mean they have to sit quietly while you behave inappropriately. This is Hatrack, Ron. Not Ronsville. And all threads are open to all people. There are no private discussions. Your "butt out" is completely inappropriate and out of line.
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But I believe you do have something you need to be saved from, Lisa. This world is about to end, and the Day of God's Judgment has already begun. And you do not even know what the issues are.
What I was specifically offering you was a provisional acceptance despite our differences. This was an act of generosity. You respond with more intolerance.
And it is Rakeesh and Tom whose comments were totally inappropriate and unqualified. I cannot make them mind their own business, but I certainly can request that they butt out, as they should. That is freedom of speech, too.
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Oy. Ron, the world has been about to end for thousands of years. One of these days it's bound to happen, with God's help or not, but what makes you so damn certain that you and yours are the first ones to finally detect that the date was, really, for sure, finally, at hand?
Is your arrogance fueled by this certainty, or did it proceed it, perhaps fueling the certainty itself, for certainly if *you* believe it, it cannot possibly be wrong.
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: This world is about to end, and the Day of God's Judgment has already begun. And you do not even know what the issues are.
Do you have an exact date? 'Cause I have plans this weekend, and the judgment day would really put a wrench in that.
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Matt, do you want an answer? Or is this just rant?
I'm curious, though I doubt the signs you recognize will be much different in quality than the signs seen by countless other doomsdayers before you.
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quote:And it is Rakeesh and Tom whose comments were totally inappropriate and unqualified. I cannot make them mind their own business, but I certainly can request that they butt out, as they should. That is freedom of speech, too.
Ron, this is a community and when one person is acting out, others can be expected to speak up. Have you considered that when *everyone* is misperceiving what you say that perhaps the problem is that you aren't saying it very well?
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Steven, the world only has to end once, for it to no longer be a laughing matter.
The question is what is the correct interpretation of Bible prophecy concerning the end of the world. That is something you would have to judge for yourself after considering a study of comparative Bible texts. It would be a fairly lengthy study, because it is not a simple subject.
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Steven, the world only has to end once, for it to no longer be a laughing matter.
True. But people only have to think the world is ending and make fools of themselves a few times before it starts becoming hilarious.
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Matt, who is "everyone"? The usual handfull of people who always like to jump on anything I say are not everyone.
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"...people only have to think the world is ending and make fools of themselves a few times before it starts becoming hilarious."
Man, that was funny.
I've always wondered, how do you come back from some thing like that? What do you say to people the week or two after you've sold everything and gone to sit on top of a hill with the rest of your little group of crazies?
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People have been anticipating the End of Days since Jesus died. I'm sure someone thought it would happen within the week.
Two thousand years later and we're still waiting. Its like every believer wants to think that their life is so rough and so important that they'll get to witness the apocalypse.
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Matt, who is "everyone"? The usual handfull of people who always like to jump on anything I say are not everyone.
Well the corollary is that when someone calls someone out inappropriately then someone else will point it out. There are plenty of people here willing to tell Tom, Rakeesh, or myself to shut it if we're out of line. They are currently silent.
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: Matt, who is "everyone"? The usual handfull of people who always like to jump on anything I say are not everyone.
I don't remember ever jumping on anything you've said, and I think you're being a pretty huge jerk to Lisa.
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You guys like to jump on anything I say probably because I am so articulate and always give you a good fight, and you enjoy it. Go on, admit it.
Jon Boy. Welcome to the club.
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I think the point is that it you AREN'T putting up a good fight, atleast not in the sense that anyone is feeling particularly challenged on a scholarly level.
Just insulted and frustrated.
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quote:The question is what is the correct interpretation of Bible prophecy concerning the end of the world. That is something you would have to judge for yourself after considering a study of comparative Bible texts. It would be a fairly lengthy study, because it is not a simple subject.
Then perhaps it's not such a simple answer. Or perhaps you see patterns where they don't exist. It's an awfully large and rich world. It would be hard *not* to see the fulfillment of any given prophecy in some event that's happened somewhere in the world if you're looking hard enough.
Case in point:
quote:"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb." The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" - Nostradamus 1654
This prophecy made the rounds on the internet shortly after 9/11 and was said to predict the attack. Many parallels between the attack and the prophecy were suggested. The only problem is that it was not written by Notradamus in 1654. It was written by a Canadian student in the 90's in a paper about how the vague symbolism of prophecies can be applied to many contemporary events. How are you immune from the same false interpretation that saw this prophecy as a valid prediction of the events of 9/11?
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: But I believe you do have something you need to be saved from, Lisa. This world is about to end, and the Day of God's Judgment has already begun. And you do not even know what the issues are.
It's true that I'm not quite clear on what your issues are, Ron, but those don't really concern me. As for the world ending... don't be silly. It already ended in 1873. I mean 1874. Oh, wait, I mean 1878. Or 1914. Hell, it ended in 1918, 1920 and 1925. Whatever. No, that's the JWs, right? You're the 1844 folks. I can't keep you straight.
quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: What I was specifically offering you was a provisional acceptance despite our differences. This was an act of generosity. You respond with more intolerance.
White man's burden, huh, Ron? Save it.
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quote:Originally posted by Shanna: People have been anticipating the End of Days since Jesus died. I'm sure someone thought it would happen within the week.
Jesus himself thought it would happen within the lifetime of his disciples.
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If you are articulate, that will speak for itself. The people that speak generally about being smarter or more articulate than those they disagree with generally are not. Besides, who cares how articulate you are? Plenty of people have been very articulate while being very wrong at the same time.
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Would I be as much fun if I were incoherent? At least I can spell, surely you can give me that!
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: You guys like to jump on anything I say probably because I am so articulate and always give you a good fight, and you enjoy it. Go on, admit it.
Jon Boy. Welcome to the club.
You are so right. In fact, from the way you have reacted to Lisa (someone who believes the relationship my wife and I have is an abomination of sorts, so I'm not one to be expected to be charitable to her), it appears you have articulated your position far more well than you can imagine to all reading this thread.
It is unfortunate, however, that this particular position which you've articulated is akin to having one's head completely up in one's own nether-regions.
posted
Bok, you said: "...it appears you have articulated your position far more well than you can imagine...."
Don't you mean to say: "...it appears you have articulated your position far BETTER than you can imagine...." Posts: 3742 | Registered: Dec 2001
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Threads, I don't know if I should dignify your juvenilia with notice, but perhaps you would be interested to know that in real dictionaries of name origins, "Lambert" derives from "Lambent Earth," and is usually defined as "Bright Land." This was a surprise to me, because for a long time I thought it suggested that a lamb-herder or shepherd were in my ancestry.
At least I use my real name, and do not hide behind something made up. Ahem.
And just because I kick you in the butt, that does not make me a goose-stepping Nazi.
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Shanna, I can see where women would be especially concerned about that sort of thing, and I do not fault you for feeling a need for caution. But in the ten years I have been active online in public discussion boards, I have never used anything other than my real name. I feel it shows I am willing to stand behind what I say.
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