posted
MattP- just out of curiosity, how long ago was high school bio for you? I have noticed just over the past 6 years a difference in what is taught in the high schools. I am also told that CSI once did a very nice description of PCR. The PCR took all of 3 minutes, but the explanation of the process was supposedly good (I don't watch CSI, so this isn't first hand knowledge).
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quote:Originally posted by Reshpeckobiggle: You already lost me.
I didn't respond to this when it was posted because I thought the thread would progress faster than it has. But since things are pretty quiet...
Honestly I'm a little surprised, though maybe I shouldn't be. I'm with MattP: I know little more about biology than what I learned in my high school class over a decade ago, but Shigosei's explanation was easy to follow.
Resh, perhaps it would be a good idea to learn a little bit about the basics of molecular biology. We can help you. Don't worry, a little knowledge and understanding will not suddenly turn you into an atheist.
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posted
4) Something else. I think it probabl lies in the "basics od DNA...what nucleotides are" that Shigosei was assuming I already understand. He said I can just look this stuff up, but it already appears to me that I'm going to be expected to learn some serious biochemical theory here, and I'm really not prepared to do that.
If no one cares to put much effort into their responses because they do not wish to argue with a layman, then they can go on talking each other with the knowledge that only they can understand each other and everyone else will just go about their lives with the belief that one can learn truth without having a degree in biology (and without relinquishing their ability to make decisions for themselves.)
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posted
Resh, I am not saying this to be insulting but I have not had to teach PCR to my new undergrads for several years. They have all done PCR experiments in high school biology (my latest two have actually successfully cloned genes in high school-one is business and the other undecided). When you say a degree in biology, this is not the expectation. The expectation is a high school degree. I know that the weakness in your education may not be your fault, but it is now up to you to remedy this. I know people on this board would be more than willing to answer questions for you and there are a lot of resources out there. But I do not think it is unreasonable to assume a high school level understanding of a concept in a debate.
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posted
Resh, the amount of biochem you need to know is that taught in high school biology (at least it was back in 91, when I took bio). It isn't that complex.
What do you actually know about DNA and cell division and replication?
posted
This isn't anything complex, this is a few weeks worth of high school biology (at the high school pace), and not even the fiddly memorization stuff, just the big picture stuff.
Most of us are laymen. Most of us are just recalling the biology we learned in high school and possibly college, and what we've picked up based on reading. I have taken no science classes since high school (granted I did take AP science classes in high school, and I do a fair bit of independent reading).
We are not unwilling to argue with a layman. We are unwilling to argue over slightly beyond the basics matters of biology with someone who doesn't even know the absolute basics of high school biology that are taught in almost every high school in America, and have been for at least a decade or two. This is like trying to show someone who hasn't bothered to learn simple algebra a basic gloss of how Calculus works.
One thing that I should hope is becoming clear to you is that you don't have anywhere near the background to even begin to evaluate the arguments of anyone you have held up as a genius who opposes evolution.
posted
Resh, this conversation has gone on way, way too long without establishing a few basic things.
I think that both you and the other people on this board need to make a few things clear:
1) Do you believe that in order to argue intelligently against a particular theory, that one has to actually understand the theory? (At at least a high school level)
2) Do you believe that you have at least a high school level understanding ov evolution?
3) Do you believe that you have demonstrated at least a high schooler's level of understanding of evolution?
I bet that for most of the people arguing against you, the answers are 'Yes", "No", and "No". I also bet that your answer differs in at least one of these questions.
I think we all have to be on the same page with regard to thses points, or at least know explicitely where everyone stands here, before any further informative discussion can happen between you and other people on the board.
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quote:RESH: I'm going to be expected to learn some serious biochemical theory here,
quote:I know little more about biology than what I learned in my high school class over a decade ago, but Shigosei's explanation was easy to follow.
quote:Resh, perhaps it would be a good idea to learn a little bit about the basics of molecular biology. We can help you.
quote: do you really care to understand these intricacies?
quote: I am not saying this to be insulting but I have not had to teach PCR to my new undergrads for several years. They have all done PCR experiments in high school biology (my latest two have actually successfully cloned genes in high school-one is business and the other undecided). When you say a degree in biology, this is not the expectation. The expectation is a high school degree. I know that the weakness in your education may not be your fault, but it is now up to you to remedy this.
quote:I do not think it is unreasonable to assume a high school level understanding of a concept in a debate.
quote:This isn't anything complex, this is a few weeks worth of high school biology
quote:. Most of us are just recalling the biology we learned in high school and possibly college, and what we've picked up based on reading.
quote:It isn't that complex.
. . . .
quote:RESH: If no one cares to put much effort into their responses because they do not wish to argue with a layman, then they can go on talking each other with the knowledge that only they can understand
quote: I know that the weakness in your education may not be your fault, but it is now up to you to remedy this.
quote: I know people on this board would be more than willing to answer questions for you and there are a lot of resources out there.
quote:Most of us are laymen.
quote:We are not unwilling to argue with a layman.
quote: We can help you.
quote: If you don't know, that's fine -- you can either look things up or you can ask me questions if you don't know what a word means or you're confused about something.
quote:Originally posted by 0Megabyte: Darned old people. Class of 91, for goodness' sake...
Eh, they're the children of a later, decadent age. The class of '90 represents the apex of civilization.
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