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Society recognizes that parenting responsibilities can be removed under certain circumstances. It is not a process undertaken lightly. For good reason, the parental instinct is almost one of ownership-- 'MY child.'
But there is a process, recognized legally and through cultural support, wherein a child can be removed from being 'your child' to someone else's.
Disturbing, or upsetting that process is inherently offensive to other parents, and to most of the rest of society.
An extreme example-- when a father abuses his children, it is acceptable, culturally, even without the mandate of law enforcement, to remove that child from the father. If you're aware that a child is being physically abused and you can't get to the police right now, you save the child, and contact the police later.
However, when the child's physical safety isn't in question, and no abuse is occurring, very few and far between are the instances when a non-involved adult knows more about the well-being of a child than a parent.
This is one of the hot buttons of parenthood: the illegitimate surrogate. It can range from a group of pedophiles establishing an internet relationship with lonely thirteen-year-old boys, to a Sunday School teacher who thinks she understands a troubled teen better than her parents, and tries to undermine their relationship "for the good of the child." It includes predators and pushy relatives, teachers and youth leaders.
A non-extreme example: last year, we went on vacation with some relatives. One afternoon, while it was raining outside, the kids were downstairs watching some television. Their aunt was controlling the channels and was trying to just find a kids' show so she could go back upstairs and be with the adults; she settled on 'Sponge-Bob Square Pants.' (The audience was a mix of her kids and ours-- six children total. Her kids were 1.5 and 3; ours were 2, 4, 6, and 8.)
My son said, "We're not allowed to watch Sponge Bob."
She replied, "Oh, it's all right this time."
I was livid.
This is a small example of illegitimate surrogacy-- where the concern of a normal, healthy guardian or parent is overridden by the desire (or concern) of a person who doesn't have a relationship with the child. In most cases, the illegitimate surrogate does not realize the damage they are doing; in most cases they don't realize how offensive they are being.
So it's imperative for parents to explain in clear, exact language what the illegitimate surrogate has done wrong. It is equally important that if that person does not amend the wrong that they've done, that they never get access to the child again.
One of the best ways to defeat illegitimate surrogates is to teach children, from the time that they are young, that you are trustworthy. This can be done by taking seriously their worries and fears; by talking with them, spending time with them. One of the most important things, we've found, is to show our kids that we do not punish, fuss, or discipline them arbitrarily. We are consistent promise keepers.
Trust is, IMO, the greatest tool in building a healthy child. It is also the greatest defense against illegitimate surrogates' selfish, shortsighted motives.
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Because it's stupid, and teaches kids that 'stupid' is okay.
They're also not allowed to use the word 'stupid.'
EDIT: For the record, they're not allowed to watch much television at all. Any show where the main characters make a habit of being disrespectful to peers, where adults are treated like villains, or where boy-girl relationships at an age younger than 16 are encouraged or seen as normal, is not allowed.
So, basically, we don't watch the Disney channel after the pre-school programs go off. Mostly we watch Discovery or Animal Planet.
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I think the most hopeful outcome, for us as parents, is that the child will then understand and even choose to follow our guidelines on their own, as they know and trust that we set guidelines out of love for them, and that there are reasons for them.
One such example for us is very like your own with the Sponge Bob episode. Except my kids were at my sister's house, until her care (probably middle school age at the time) when they turned on South Park.
My kids didn't say, "we're not allowed to see South Park"..instead they said, "We DON'T watch South Park." And when the channel wasn't changed, they got up and left the room themselves. That is the kind of thing I hope for my kids -- that they will do on their own whatever we have taught them, whether we are there or not.
(edit: I'm not saying your kids should have had that reaction - because my kids were older, and more is expected of them at that stage of life)
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If I ever have kids I think I'll lock them in a room with a continuous loop of Carl Sagan's "Cosmos" playing.
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Heaven help me, that first read to me as "I'm so glad you're raising my children in the world."
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quote:Originally posted by Scott R: Because it's stupid, and teaches kids that 'stupid' is okay.
That is exactly why I wouldn't let my kid watch Barney.
Amen.
I had one of my daughter's teachers call me the other day and try to convince me that we should send her to a different HS than the one we have decided on (after much research). I didn't mind the call; I did mind that she kept pushing even after she admitted that I had clearly done more research than she had.
And then went back to pushing the idea of sending her out of town for school, which she had brought up before. That way, of course, she might be exposed to something other than her terrible broken home. Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Javert: Just out of curiosity, why aren't your kids allowed to watch Sponge-Bob?
I was wondering that. It's rather funny and goofy.
Ni Hao Kai Lan is rather good. It's sort of sweet and not too brain drainingly stupid the way a lot of kid shows tend to be.
Your points make sense, Scott R. I hope when I am a parent I can build a foundation of love and trust and most importantly, not be like my own parents were.
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quote:I hope when I am a parent I can build a foundation of love and trust and most importantly, not be like my own parents were.
I hope that not being like your own parents isn't really more important to you than being a good parent.
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quote:I hope when I am a parent I can build a foundation of love and trust and most importantly, not be like my own parents were.
I hope that not being like your own parents isn't really more important to you than being a good parent.
Being a good parent would be not being like my parents. It's rude to say, but very true. They were quite young when they had me, my mother was abused and somewhat abusive (though, she was there for me when I had cancer), my father was not very involved and for the most part my grandmother raised me.
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quote:Originally posted by katharina: Heaven help me, that first read to me as "I'm so glad you're raising my children in the world."
No, other than the ones I occasionally dream I've forgotten about and left behind somewhere, none of mine. *grin
(Horrible, horrible dreams. "Oh, my God. I left a baby at O'Hare on the luggage carousel in 1992. What happened??? My baby! My baby's dead!")
---
Edited to add:
quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: The lessons I took from my own upbringing included what to do and what not to do. My parents gave examples of both.
I'm sure that my kid will say the same about me.
My mother sometimes commented that it was a good thing none of us had perfect parents, because then we would have the stress of trying to live up to that perfection ourselves. I found that quite sensible and encouraging.
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What an interesting topic! I'd never thought of it in those terms, Scott. It's particularly helpful to me at this point b/c I often feel like Andrew and I are alone in how we choose to parent.
For example, we attend a Mommy and Me program at our local Chabad. It's a wonderful program and I really like the other moms and kids. However, I have more and different rules for Aerin than almost all the other moms. It's especially important that I'm consistent b/c Aerin has a number of developmental delays/disorders (currently being diagnosed). We were having snack and she did "the sweep" with her Cheerios - whereby she takes her arm and sweeps it across the table, thus maximizing the total devastation. I said, "No, Aerin, you know better. Cheerios are all done." I didn't raise my voice, but I did use a firm tone. And I put the Cheerios away. Aerin barely reacted - she rarely does the sweep b/c she knows it gets food taken away. She had also had plenty to eat. One of the other moms said, "Oh, let her do it. They're only this little once. Who cares if they make a mess?" I just demurred because I didn't want to get into it, but it annoyed me on many levels.
We have a big problem with people giving Aerin food at shul. She's little and pretty and a miracle baby, so everyone wants to give her cookies and brownies and treats. And it never occurs to anyone to ask me first! What if she had a serious food allergy? I never give children food without checking with their parents first.
Another big problem is presents. There are a lot of toys we don't allow. We don't allow anything that lights up or makes (electronic) noise. We also don't allow Bratz dolls, etc. I finally just made an Amazon wish list and I try to steer people there. I wish people we barely know would stop giving us presents all together - I've tried to request that people make donations in Aerin's name, but it never works.
Sometimes, though, people are good about respecting our rules. We were at Eema and Me and Aerin was fussing because I wouldn't let her leave the room (she loves to explore - it's a very neat shul). The teacher said, "Aerin, don't cry, it's time to go to the dining room for snack." I love the teacher and feel very comfortable with her, so I said, "She can't go until she stops fussing." And the teacher said, "Of course you're exactly right. That's what I love about you." It was so nice to be supported and not told that I'm too strict or mean.
BTW, the only show we allow is Peep and the Big Wide World.
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(You weren't the, um, fetus that had to be continually basted, were you? Because I feel really, really bad about that.)
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quote:Originally posted by Tante Shvester: The lessons I took from my own upbringing included what to do and what not to do. My parents gave examples of both.
Of course. But if your most important thing as a parent is defined by what your parents did (or didn't do), you'll end up as a twisted reflection of them.
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quote:Originally posted by Mrs.M: One of the other moms said, "Oh, let her do it. They're only this little once. Who cares if they make a mess?" I just demurred because I didn't want to get into it, but it annoyed me on many levels.
Been there. Done that. Totally with you.
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I don't dream about babies I had and lost, but occasionally (once every two years or so) dream about getting a baby that isn't mine. This whole "no sex before marriage" is pretty deeply ingrained, because I've had several dreams where I was pregnant and in tears because I couldn't imagine how.
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Something in Scott's post really bothers me. I think the bottom line of it is that while I respect that parents relationship to their children and their responsibility for them is unique and special, I also believe that the entire community has a responsibility for its children.
For example, as a teacher I have a responsibility to my students. In an ideal world, when I fill my responsibility to my students by teaching them the course material I would be supporting the parents and their goals. But this isn't an ideal world and sometimes as a teacher I find myself at odds with what the parents think is best for their child. Many times that is because the parents are wrong. No parent is perfect.
For example, last year I was teaching sunday school to a group of teenagers. During one lesson I was making a point which came straight out of the official church material for the class, was backed by scriptural references and quotes from our modern day prophets and which I felt inspired to emphasize in class. One of the kids raised his hand and said, but that's the opposite of what my parents tell me. I didn't have any desire to undermine his parents or be an "illegitimate surrogate" for them, but as their teacher I felt I had a sacred responsibility to teach them the truth even if it contradicted what their parents wanted them to believe. I tried to temper my answer so it didn't come out as a bluntly as "well, your parents are wrong", but in the end that's what it added up to.
I suspect that they had been ScottR's kids, he'd be livid.
I don't care. I had a responsibility to these kids and I did the best I could to fill it. I respect that the parents are doing the same even if they do make mistakes. I hope they aren't so arrogantly possessive of their children that they can't appreciate the responsibilities held by other imperfect members of the community (and that they have to other's children) and the good faith efforts those people make to help, support and teach their children.
I understand Scott's point but it isn't as black and white an issue as he implies. There are many other members of the community that have a responsibility of some sort for your children that goes beyond just making sure they aren't being beaten. Just like parents, none of these people are perfect and at time they may make mistakes. When teachers, mentors and friends make mistakes because they genuinely care about your kids, they deserve to be cut the same kind of slack we cut good loving responsible parents who also make mistakes.
[ March 28, 2008, 11:42 AM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]
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CT, your nightmares give me nightmares. You are amazingly good at nightmares. You make me look like a piker.
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quote:She's little and pretty and a miracle baby, so everyone wants to give her cookies and brownies and treats. And it never occurs to anyone to ask me first! What if she had a serious food allergy? I never give children food without checking with their parents first.
:nods:
Inkling has a milk allergy-- we're very appreciative when people ask us before they hand him a cup of moo-juice.
Part of not making yourself an illegitimate surrogate is respecting the wishes of normal, healthy parents. To respect their wishes, you have to find out what they are, first. The only way to do that is ask-- I know I appreciate it when people ask what our standards are. Our best (non-family) babysitter is the one that enforces our rules despite the extra aggravation she has to go through because of it.
quote: There are a lot of toys we don't allow. We don't allow anything that lights up or makes (electronic) noise. We also don't allow Bratz dolls, etc.
Yep. We've broken a couple hearts by returning toys that weren't appropriate for our kids.
Completely off topic, what in the world were the makers of the Bratz dolls thinking? "Not only are we going to sexualize teenagers to pre-teens, but we're going to market them with a negative label, too! GENIUS!"
quote:Originally posted by ClaudiaTherese: [QB] No, other than the ones I occasionally dream I've forgotten about and left behind somewhere, none of mine. *grin
(Horrible, horrible dreams. "Oh, my God. I left a baby at O'Hare on the luggage carousel in 1992. What happened??? My baby! My baby's dead!")
I've had nearly the same dream, except for the luggage carousel part.
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: I've had nearly the same dream, except for the luggage carousel part.
It's a horrible feeling, isn't it? I find that sort of dream is the kind whose hold lingers the longest -- I still feel the guilt and fear long after my brain has cognitively acknowledged it was all only a dream.
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It really is a horrible dream. The horrible guilt and fear of having misplaced or forgotten something as precious as a baby. Really, really awful.
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quote:Originally posted by The Rabbit: I think the bottom line of it is that while I respect that parents relationship to their children and their responsibility for them is unique and special, I also believe that the entire community has a responsibility for its children.
I agree, to a certain point.
quote:...sometimes as a teacher I find myself at odds with what the parents think is best for their child. Many times that is because the parents are wrong. No parent is perfect.
Nor are you. Normal, healthy parents, at least, have a long-standing, daily relationship with their child which a teacher inherently lacks.
This attitude is the essence of illegitimate surrogacy.
quote:For example, last year I was teaching sunday school to a group of teenagers. During one lesson I was making a point which came straight out of the official church material for the class, was backed by scriptural references and quotes from our modern day prophets and which I felt inspired to emphasize in class. On of the kids raised his hand and said, but that's the opposite of what my parents tell me. I didn't have any desire to undermine his parents or be an "illegitimate surrogate" for them, but as their teacher I felt I had a sacred responsibility to teach them the truth even if it contradicted what their parents wanted them to believe. I tried to temper my answer so it didn't come out as a bluntly as "well, your parents are wrong", but in the end that's what it added up to.
Did you contact the parents to explain what had happened?
I really hope you did.
quote:I suspect that they had been ScottR's kids, he'd be livid.
Every Sunday after church, the troupe and I discuss what they talked about in Sunday School. I'm very interested in what they're learning, and what they find interesting about the gospel.
I'm also aware that some Sunday School teachers with the best intentions, have not a clue in their brains as to what the gospel is about. Protestations to the contrary notwithstanding. So in the scenario that you laid out, I would point out using scripture, church manuals, and the Spirit of God why what they were taught in church was wrong.
And then I'd call their teacher and discuss the correct doctrine with them.
quote:I don't care. I had a responsibility to these kids and I did the best I could to fill it. I respect that the parents are doing the same even if they do make mistakes.
I don't respect people who willingly put their own desires and agendas above my wishes for my children's well-being.
I do not respect people who believe that they know better for my children than I do.
quote:I hope they aren't so arrogantly possessive of their children that they can't appreciate the responsibilities held by other imperfect members of the community (and that they have to other's children) and the good faith efforts those people make to help, support and teach their children.
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Rabbit: I don't mean to speak for Scott, but the way I see it, he is upset by people who assume a responsibility for someone's children when they have none, or who overstep the bounds of their legitimate responsibility. If you're a Sunday school teacher, you have a legitimate responsibility to teach the kids in your class according to the lesson manual provided.
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Scott, do you also claim to not know better than any other parent in regard to their parenting? If I let my kids watch South Park, you'd say "he knows what's best for his child" and not believe you knew better?
While you may not respect me for it, I definitely have opinions about what's best for other children, and I think you should, too.
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quote:Nor are you. Normal, healthy parents, at least, have a long-standing, daily relationship with their child which a teacher inherently lacks.
This attitude is the essence of illegitimate surrogacy.
Scott, It depends on what issue we are discussing. If as an elementary school teacher for example, I were advising you on whether grounding your child was an appropriate punishment for your child, then I'd can see your objection.
If on the other hand, an elementary school teacher was advising you to get a reading tutor for your child or to have him evaluated for learning disabilities, the teacher may indeed know more about what your child needs than you do.
If for example I were an elementary school teacher and I'd worked carefully with a child who was struggling to read and thought that child need special help, I'd push hard to get that child the special help even if the parents objected. I would see that as part of my responsibility as a teacher.
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quote:Originally posted by Launchywiggin: Scott, do you also claim to not know better than any other parent in regard to their parenting? If I let my kids watch South Park, you'd say "he knows what's best for his child" and not believe you knew better?
While you may not respect me for it, I definitely have opinions about what's best for other children, and I think you should, too.
I definitely think South Park isn't a good show for kids (or adults, honestly) to watch.
Having an opinion isn't the same as acting to take responsibility for someone else's child.
We have friends who homeschool their kids. Some of them pull it off well, some of them don't. In most cases, I think the kids of the families I know would get a much better education at public school than at home.
It's not my place to decide, though, or even comment to them about it. Most of those children will grow up to be excellent, thoughtful citizens, even if they never do wind up reading Cry, the Beloved Country, or Their Eyes Were Watching God.
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quote:If for example I were an elementary school teacher and I'd worked carefully with a child who was struggling to read and thought that child need special help, I'd push hard to get that child the special help even if the parents objected. I would see that as part of my responsibility as a teacher.
rivka pointed to a situation at her daughter's school in which a teacher apparently thinks she knows better for her daughter than the mother.
I'm inclined to trust Rivka's judgment in this matter.
Of course there are many factors involved-- do I trust the teacher as a professional? Do I trust her as a person? Am I evaluating my own competencies without bias?
We took Junebug out of school last year because she wasn't being taught math correctly. It simply does not matter what the school board said about the teacher's ability to teach; it didn't matter what the teacher's professional opinion was; it didn't matter what the principal thought or said-- we had experience that they did not with how Junebug learned, and we saw that she was not learning math from this teacher. And so we acted on our understanding, removed her from public school, and taught her ourselves. It was the right decision, and has been validated all this year by Junebug's increased ability to understand mathematics.
I do not give professionalism any credit at all. It's an overvalued piece of paper that has no relationship to my children whatsoever.
I do not allow that a teacher knows more than I do about the way my child learns. I have made sure that I know more than them; and in fact, I'm so far ahead of their understanding, they can never, ever catch up. Not that I blame them-- I've got experiences informing me that they simply cannot have.
I believe it is a parent's duty and one of their main responsibilities to understand their child better then everyone else. I take an active part of my children's lives to make sure that I live up to that responsibility.
EDIT: And I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to any parent who says similarly.
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I'm not a big fan of establishing practices which would be prohibitively difficult to carry out if everyone actually followed them. For instance, checking with the parents of every child that visited with our house as to what tv shows their kids were allowed to watch or what video games they were allowed to play or whether or not the children are permitted to eat candy or cookies.
When we allow our children to go to someone else's home, we know their standards vary a bit one way or another from ours, but we accept that we cannot perfectly control the experiences of our children throughout their childhood and that individual variances from the experiences we would prefer that they have will not cause irreparable harm and may potentially provide teaching opportunities to them so that they better understand why we have the rules we do rather than just learn to follow the rules for the rules' sake.
The parent who is told "we're not allowed to watch that" by one of the children who are sitting down to watch a show is put into an awkward position and I can understand them deciding that just letting the child watch the show is preferable to segregating the child, sending him home, or insisting that everyone else give up an activity for which their parents do not object. If it were me, I'd probably get on the phone and talk with the parents before making a decision, but I can understand the parent who just lets it go "this one time."
All of my children who are old enough to convey themselves to a friend's house have had multiple experiences that fall outside of what we would permit in our own home regarding music, TV, or games, and we have used these experiences to educate them about why we have the standards we have and why they are different from others'. On occasion we intervene with their friends or their friends' parents when these experiences go too far beyond what we consider reasonable, but overall these situations have, I think, richened our children's appreciation for both the diversity of their friends and for the environment that we try to encourage in our own home.
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quote:Did you contact the parents to explain what had happened?
I really hope you did.
I thoughtfully and prayerful considered it at the time but since I could find no way to do that without either insulting the parent, presuming to teach the parent (something clearly outside my stewardship), or getting the kid in trouble. Remember this wasn't a class of 8 year olds, it was a class of teenagers who are prone to exaggerate what their parents say and do.
Since you posted, I've reconsidered and still can't think of anyway I could do that which was respectful to both the parents and the kid.
quote: I would point out using scripture, church manuals, and the Spirit of God why what they were taught in church was wrong.
And then I'd call their teacher and discuss the correct doctrine with them.
At which point I would have pointed to my manual and the scriptures and gospel quotes I'd used in class. I would have explained that I had prayerful prepared my lesson and was striving to fill my calling. I would have reminded you that you raised your hand to sustain me in that calling and suggested that if you felt you could no longer do that, you talk to the Bishop about it.
The part you don't seem to be getting Scott is that you aren't the only one who has a sacred responsibility toward your children.
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quote:The parent who is told "we're not allowed to watch that" by one of the children who are sitting down to watch a show is put into an awkward position and I can understand them deciding that just letting the child watch the show is preferable to segregating the child, sending him home, or insisting that everyone else give up an activity for which their parents do not object. If it were me, I'd probably get on the phone and talk with the parents before making a decision, but I can understand the parent who just lets it go "this one time."
I can appreciate your opinion, and might agree with it, depending on the specific situation. (In my case, the families were all in one house together, her kids were in the minority both age-wise and numbers-wise, and she knew beforehand that we didn't allow Sponge Bob.)
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quote:Originally posted by MattP: The parent who is told "we're not allowed to watch that" by one of the children who are sitting down to watch a show is put into an awkward position and I can understand them deciding that just letting the child watch the show is preferable to segregating the child, sending him home, or insisting that everyone else give up an activity for which their parents do not object. If it were me, I'd probably get on the phone and talk with the parents before making a decision, but I can understand the parent who just lets it go "this one time."
*blink*
I can understand not calling the child's parents to check before every activity or snack, but when a kid tells you they're not allowed to do something and you encourage them to do it anyway you are knowingly encouraging that child to deliberately disobey their parents. That's putting yourself in a much worse position than any "awkwardness" the child has caused.
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quote:I do not give professionalism any credit at all. It's an overvalued piece of paper that has no relationship to my children whatsoever.
I do not allow that a teacher knows more than I do about the way my child learns. I have made sure that I know more than them; and in fact, I'm so far ahead of their understanding, they can never, ever catch up. Not that I blame them-- I've got experiences informing me that they simply cannot have.
You've hit everyone of my hot buttons so far in this thread Scott. I will leave now because I there is not way that I could continue a civil conversation with you.
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quote:The part you don't seem to be getting Scott is that you aren't the only one who has a sacred responsibility toward your children.
What you don't seem to be getting is that the parents' sacred responsibility trumps the teacher's every time.
Even in the church. ESPECIALLY in the church, where the center of teaching the gospel is supposed to be the family. Church on Sunday is an organizer and a facilitator, but not a replacement and not the first location of gospel knowledge.
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quote:I can understand not calling the child's parents to check before every activity or snack, but when a kid tells you they're not allowed to do something and you encourage them to do it anyway you are knowingly encouraging that child to deliberately disobey their parents. That's putting yourself in a much worse position than any "awkwardness" the child has caused.
Like I said, *I* would have called the parents. But as a parent who has rules about what my kids can and can't watch, I'd cut some slack to the parent in that situation. This assessment seems to reflect reality as Scott seems much more upset with the adult involved than with his child.
EDIT: I don't see it as the child necessarily disobeying their parent. At least the way I think my kids would parse that situation is "this grown up is letting my do something my parents don't let me do" which means the transgression is on the part of the adult, not the child.
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I agree with Scott that there any decent parent will be privy to information and observations that a teacher simply doesn't have access to. At the same time, a teacher will almost certainly possess information that parent doesn't have with regards to teaching techniques, styles of learning, and sheer volume of experience teaching children, if not your specific child.
It's a lot like going to see a doctor. You're the one who knows what hurts and what doesn't feel good, and you probably know your body better than your physician, but the doctor's the one with the expertise to tell you what all that means, and advise on a course of treatment.
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quote:Even in the church. ESPECIALLY in the church, where the center of teaching the gospel is supposed to be the family. Church on Sunday is an organizer and a facilitator, but not a replacement and not the first location of gospel knowledge.
This is really getting too complicated. Teacher says "A." Kid says "my parents say B." Teacher says, "I could be mistaken, but my understanding is 'A' and this is why." or better yet "This is what the lesson manual says (quote the lesson manual) and this is that the prophets have said (quote the prophets). Prayerfully consider for yourself what conclusion to draw from that."
Done!
The child is still welcome to go back to his parents for clarification. The parents are welcome to talk to the teacher. I don't see why a disagreement on a doctrinal issue in Sunday School has to be a point of embarrassment for the child or cause a clash over who's responsibilities are more sacred.
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quote:The part you don't seem to be getting Scott is that you aren't the only one who has a sacred responsibility toward your children.
What you don't seem to be getting is that the parents' sacred responsibility trumps the teacher's every time.
Even in the church. ESPECIALLY in the church, where the center of teaching the gospel is supposed to be the family. Church on Sunday is an organizer and a facilitator, but not a replacement and not the first location of gospel knowledge.
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MattP: I don't see how that's complicated at all, nor do I see how what you described conflicts with what katharina said. The teacher has a responsibility to the child, and she has fulfilled it if she does what you said. But that's where the responsibility ends. I believe that's what katharina is saying.
The Rabbit is saying that parents aren't the only ones with responsibilities to their children; others are saying, in a nutshell, that parental responsibility trumps the other ones.
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