posted
Senoj, I haven't seen that lecture by Steve Koonin, although I do recognize the name. I check it out when I get a chance - thanks for the link!
Posts: 2409 | Registered: Sep 2003
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This article rings as totally bogus to me as most all farmers I know are extremely unhappy with the Farm Bill - in fact our own Kansas reps voted against it. The current Farm Bill is totally geared toward Big Corn; Big Ethanol and Food Stamps -- very little in it at all about regular smaller and medium sized farming operations.
I don't think it will hurt McCain (as the articles tries to say it will) because most voters around here agree with him when it comes to this current policy.
Posts: 9538 | Registered: Aug 2003
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This is one of the few things that I agree with McCain on over Obama. The Farm Bill was a giant waste of money, again.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I got the email mentioned in this snopes article today. I sent back the snopes article so they could make up their own minds with all of the facts. I really hate biased emails like that, no matter what side they're on.
I saw a video on a friend's picture blog about why Obama is so scary. It was so full of misinformation and vaguely concealed racist remarks it wasn't funny. Really, it wasn't funny. I couldn't believe such a good friend would post something so inflammatory without fact-checking.
Disagree with Obama's or McCain's policies--FINE, but these emails and accusations involving missing flag pins, etc. are offensive.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Katarain: I got the email mentioned in this snopes article today. I sent back the snopes article so they could make up their own minds with all of the facts. I really hate biased emails like that, no matter what side they're on.
posted
Never saw any possibility of selection as VicePresident. FAR too weak a showing during the campaign for the Nomination. Mine was "He ain't gonna be a major speaker at the Convention." And the second was, "His lying killed the highly possible appointments to USAttorneyGeneral then to SCotUS*."
* SupremeCourt of the UnitedStates.
Posts: 8501 | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Big ups to him on his timing, though. The man's been denying it for nearly a year now, and look what day he decides to `fess up!
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by James Tiberius Kirk: This happened in 2006 and he still decided to pursue the nomination?
There's certainly been precedent of philandering Southern politicians successfully gaining the nomination despite previous affairs.
I feel sorry for their family; I hope they (particularly Elizabeth Edwards) can deal with the trauma inflicted.
On the heartless, political side: For a few years after Clinton and Condit I wondered what had happened to the good old-fashioned Democratic sex scandal. Everything was Mark Foley and Larry Craig. But now we've had, in quick succession, Newsom, Vallaigarosa, Kilpatrick, Spitzer and now Edwards. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Posts: 2926 | Registered: Sep 2005
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quote:Please oh please oh please let Obama have stayed faithful to his wife.
Yeah, him not doing so and being exposed would be a double-tap to the head for sure. It'd suck in a lot of ways. I say that as a fence-sitter, too.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Sorry. That's nerdy gamer/action movie fan lingo. 'Double-tap' meaning two shots fired one right after the other, and hitting very close together.
A deadly blow, in other words.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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I think if he had done so, he would've gotten it out when he got everything else out in his autobiography. He shed a lot of demons there, and I think if he had anymore, it would've been best to get rid of them then.
But say it did come out next week that years ago he had an affair...doesn't the fact that McCain had an affair, a divorce, and a remarriage give him some leeway? McCain's past infidelities haven't gotten the tiniest bit of sunlight during this campaign, which is actually something I'm happy about, because I'd rather this be about policy, but I can't help but wonder what would happen with McCain's own past if something about Obama were to come out.
This Edwards thing is a bit shocking. I always liked him, and I still do despite this admittal. It's just strange when it comes at you from left field. I really don't think Edwards was a VP contender, but I DO think he had a serious shot at AG or SecLabor. I don't know if those chances are shot now, but they certainly took a big hit.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:But say it did come out next week that years ago he had an affair...doesn't the fact that McCain had an affair, a divorce, and a remarriage give him some leeway? McCain's past infidelities haven't gotten the tiniest bit of sunlight during this campaign, which is actually something I'm happy about, because I'd rather this be about policy, but I can't help but wonder what would happen with McCain's own past if something about Obama were to come out.
I don't know, Lyrhawn. A lot of Senator Obama's oomph is about image, integrity, a new sort of politics, a new sort of politician in fact. The good guy.
If a lot of shine comes off of that chrome, well...then he starts to look a lot more like business as usual. In this layman's opinion, the Obama campaign dies on the vine if that happens. In particular, because he disclosed some things and not that. And even more so if such a thing happened after his autobiography.
Anyway, I'm not interested in discussing it further personally. It started out with me just agreeing with katharina. I don't suspect it of him.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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In a very shallow confession, I must admit something. I mean seriously, you have a shot at the president and probably some pretty influential positions, you're decent looking, and much of the country is watching you ... so the stakes are pretty high. Then you go and have an affair with well, a pretty average looking woman.
I mean, what gives? If you *must* do something like this why not make it worth your while? Why risk it all on something so mediocre? Goes for Clinton with Lewinsky too.
Is it just the 'forbidden' nature of the affair and the high stakes in getting caught acting like a psychological "beer goggles"? Weird.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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posted
For some people, it may just be the first instance of "Wow, there's someone who's drawn to my power, this is really heady..." Possibly combined with the timing of "I've been going through some really rough times, I deserve a break."
And then, some men just find it much harder than they should to say "no".
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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Attractiveness cannot be measured by a photograph.
I find the idea that somehow it would be more "worth it" if the women in question were superficially better looking to be ridiculous.
Posts: 9866 | Registered: Apr 2002
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Politicians are people too, and people are prone to weakness. I don't say that in that he's weaker because she's 'average looking' (frankly a part of me wonders if that picture wasn't selected for its average-lookingness).
And despite how incredibly lazy politicians seem sometimes (hey big recesses!), on the campaign trail life is extremely stressful. Especially that particular campaign trail.
Into this situation comes the woman making documentaries on his campaign. Surely they at the very least respected one another already, or they wouldn't have that kind of business relationship. To make such films a good deal of time must have been spent in close proximity, conducting interviews and just being there to observe.
Who can say what the connection between them was? And I reject the silly notion that because she appears mediocre in a couple of photographs we've seen, she must be a mediocre woman, or that physical attractiveness is the only lure for affairs. Honestly, that idea you're suggesting is possibly even rude and insulting.
Sterling,
quote:And then, some men just find it much harder than they should to say "no".
Some women too, unless she was an especially crapphy documentary filmmaker and didn't realize he was married.
------------
The most irritating thing about this situation, for me personally (never having been a fan of Edwards, and thus having no 'personal' stake in his disgrace) is that he is probably going to 'get away' with timing his 'admission' like he has.
Olypmics, war in Georgia, falling oil prices, talk of troop withdrawls in Iraq, bizarre and dramatic missing-baby headlines in the news...really, Edwards has hit the jackpot when it comes to fortuitous timing to make this sort of statement.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:And then, some men just find it much harder than they should to say "no".
Some women too, unless she was an especially crapphy documentary filmmaker and didn't realize he was married.
In as much as she shouldn't have had a fling with Edwards, yes. But there's something of a difference between "this is stupid, this is immoral, this is unprofessional, I shouldn't do this" and "if I do this, I could destroy almost everything I've worked for for the last twenty years."
There are rare exceptions, but sex scandals are usually the province of male politicians. And the women involved with said politicians usually find it much easier to fade from the spotlight.
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:There are rare exceptions, but sex scandals are usually the province of male politicians. And the women involved with said politicians usually find it much easier to fade from the spotlight.
This might have something to do with the fact that presently, politics is usually the province of male politicians.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: This might have something to do with the fact that presently, politics is usually the province of male politicians.
That's undoubtedly part of it, but I would be lying if I said I thought it was the only, or even the biggest, part of it.
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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posted
They probably are, a little, but no, that's not why.
I think men who have worked hard to achieve power are more likely to feel that they "deserve" perks outside the strictest definitions of their job benefits. It's been observed, for example, that men are more likely than women to believe they're entitled to "free time" to cope with the stresses of their jobs.
I also think men with power are more likely to use it as an inducement to sex. That's partly just the state of sexual relations in our time. Powerful men are considered attractive; powerful women are considered intimidating. I wouldn't be the first to observe that many women who have risen to high positions in corporations have felt a need to downplay their sexuality as part of their persona. Power + female still creates a cognitive dissonance in a lot of people.
Posts: 3826 | Registered: May 2005
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quote:Power + female still creates a cognitive dissonance in a lot of people.
And of course, if a man is a domineering and commanding boss, he is looked at differently than a woman in the same position. For instance, one is called a bitch and the other is not.
I'll say the same thing about John Edwards that I did about John McCain--who gives a crap? If we expect perfection out of our politicians, then clearly we aim too high, and this means nothing to the issues and problems we face or that Edwards promoted. In some sense, I think this is where this nihilism and cynicism about our country and politicians come from, we expect perfection from those who could never actually provide it, and when we are disappointed, we look at the world as if it is to blame.
People aren't perfect, politicians aren't perfect, and humanity is flawed. Sounds like a reason for theme music and a big red banner to me...
Posts: 457 | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:I'll say the same thing about John Edwards that I did about John McCain--who gives a crap? If we expect perfection out of our politicians, then clearly we aim too high, and this means nothing to the issues and problems we face or that Edwards promoted.
I give a crap. It's not an instant deal-breaker for me in a politician, but it does erode my respect for them substantially. As it does with an ordinary person actually, while remembering that of course I cannot know all the circumstances and thus my opinion is to some extent uninformed.
Call me crazy, I just don't quite trust someone to keep their word when I learn they can't honor their marriage oaths. Or at least, can't trust them as much. That doesn't mean that the person (italicized for the sexism on display in this thread lately) who does honor their vows isn't a liar in other, more serious ways, or that the one who doesn't honor those vows isn't the one I should vote for.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: (frankly a part of me wonders if that picture wasn't selected for its average-lookingness).
Good point. It is possible.
quote: Honestly, that idea you're suggesting is possibly even rude and insulting.
I did specifically point out that it was a very shallow observation. Of course its rude and insulting.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: Well, this new revelation will certainly change some things.
I think it is every American's patriotic duty NOT to link this video and to do anything they can within reason to kill it's very existence.
Posts: 14316 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Some of the knockoffs I'm seeing now are pretty dumb, but I thought the original was funny, clever and pretty tasteful.
Posts: 4136 | Registered: Aug 2008
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My initial reaction was a chuckle at the thought of the guy who's supposed to be stronger on foreign policy experience cribbing notes from Wikipedia like a kid writing a book report. But honestly, I'm not so sure this is a big deal even if true.
I mean, pretty much all politicans have speech writers to start with, so for the most part we're not expecting their speeches to be entirely their own words. And they have to research facts somewhere. Before the internet would anyone have cared if some lines in a speech were similar to those in a history book or encyclopedia?
The only thing that does seem wrong about this is the editablity of wikipedia and the potential for inaccuracy or vandalism. I hope McCain or his writers weren't using wiki as a sole source, because it's just too easy to get misinformation on there (at least temporarily).
I'm not sure I agree with the analysis, but since so much of last spring was spent discussing whether or not Obama's proposed policy toward Iran was "appeasement," I think this article is worth mentioning.
posted
I didn't see what came after it, did he qualify that statement with something afterwards?
If he didn't, that has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard him say, and beyond that, shows a striking amount of naivete that I didn't think someone with his experience would be capable of.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I too would like to see more context on the above clip.
otoh this clip has plenty of context. according to Hannity while there is a double standard for sex scandals that favor democrats John McCain's affair is off limits because he spent five and a half years in a prisoner of war camp. (it starts to get explosive around the 2:45 range):
posted
What about semaphore? Nathan Lane has always been a poor semaphore performer. It's widely viewed as his Achilles' heel.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote: otoh this clip has plenty of context. according to Hannity while there is a double standard for sex scandals that favor democrats John McCain's affair is off limits because he spent five and a half years in a prisoner of war camp. (it starts to get explosive around the 2:45 range):
Hannity's point was McCain had just come back from Vietnam and may have not been in the best state of mind to make rational decisions. A lot of returning Vietnam vets had many similar issues. The point wasn't that McCain's affair is off-limits but that there is more to the story than he simply cheated on his wife. We don't know what McCain's state of mind was 30 years ago as a returning Vietnam vet who was in a prison camp for 5 1/2 years. I think McCain might have been having a little more stress and pyschological trauma to deal with than Edwards did when Edwards was cheating.
Posts: 1918 | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by DarkKnight: Hannity's point was McCain had just come back from Vietnam and may have not been in the best state of mind to make rational decisions.
McCain was released in 1973. He didn't meet Cindy Hensley until 1979. It's hardly as though he stumbled off the plane and immediately launched into an affair with her.
Posts: 16059 | Registered: Aug 2000
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quote:McCain was released in 1973. He didn't meet Cindy Hensley until 1979. It's hardly as though he stumbled off the plane and immediately launched into an affair with her.
From wikipedia...
quote: During their time in Jacksonville, the McCains' marriage began to falter.[178] McCain had extramarital affairs,[178] and he later said, "My marriage's collapse was attributable to my own selfishness and immaturity more than it was to Vietnam, and I cannot escape blame by pointing a finger at the war. The blame was entirely mine."[179] His wife Carol later stated that the failure was not due to her accident or Vietnam and that "I attribute [the breakup of our marriage] more to John turning 40 and wanting to be 25 again than I do to anything else."[180] John McCain's biographer, Robert Timberg, believes that "Vietnam did play a part, perhaps not the major part, but more than a walk-on."[180] According to John McCain, "I had changed, she had changed. People who have been apart that much change."[180]
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