posted
For that matter, it is the same with Erdos. You need to co-author an academic paper, not just be friends to establish a link.
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posted
OK, Bacon number 3 then; a friend of mine was in a Shakespeare play with Ethan Hawke when they were both teens, and I did an Apocalypse Now (abridged) film with said friend.
Erdos number... if it's got to be an academic paper, that's harder for me. What's the definition of an academic paper? Do college lab reports count? Newspaper articles?
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quote: Our criterion for inclusion of an edge between vertices u and v is some research collaboration between them resulting in a published work. Any number of additional coauthors is permitted. Not normally included are joint editorships, introductions to books written by others, technical reports, problem sessions, problems posed or solved in problem sections of journals, seminars, very elementary textbooks, books on history, memorial or other tributes, biography, translations, bibliographies, or popular works.
posted
So do I. The odds of my being published in any professional science/math journal with my father (or anyone else with a finite Erdos number) are close enough to zero to approximate as such though.
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Well, I have published in an academic field, but biochem. I think I have a very high Erdos number, but it would take a lot of research to figure it out (unless my boss published something as an undergrad- he was in math). But I imagine at some point, there is a link to a mathematician- probably through the structural people. For Bacon number, I was in a beauty pageant as well as school plays. It is possible one of those people went on to have a career. So, long story short, I got nothing.
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When will we see an XKCD about the pioneer anomaly?
XKCD teaches me lots of cool things. Like the other day I learned about the Voynich manuscript.
I had to read wikipedia to figure out the Erdos thing too. When I read it, there was no mention of the comic yet, so I got the fun of making the connections myself.
I just found out about the mouseovers not long ago, so I had to go back to the beginning to read all the mouseovers. Sometimes they're the best part.
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quote:Originally posted by Tatiana: I just found out about the mouseovers not long ago, so I had to go back to the beginning to read all the mouseovers. Sometimes they're the best part.
I was lucky, before I was even able to click a link to XKCD someone here on hatrack told me to mouse over ever comic.
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I didn't even know what an Erdos number was until last night, and know I'm sad that mine will probably never be finite.
... but I hate writing academic papers, and so while I'd love to have a finite Erdos number, I'm glad I never have to endure the misery of writing another one in my life (knock on wood)...
Posts: 2911 | Registered: Aug 2001
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quote: Our criterion for inclusion of an edge between vertices u and v is some research collaboration between them resulting in a published work. Any number of additional coauthors is permitted. Not normally included are joint editorships, introductions to books written by others, technical reports, problem sessions, problems posed or solved in problem sections of journals, seminars, very elementary textbooks, books on history, memorial or other tributes, biography, translations, bibliographies, or popular works.
I didn't realize Google had that kind of reach. I also didn't realize we had anything to offer other than nursing and teaching.
Edit to add: And I talked to OSC on the phone briefly whilst discussing material that was in one of my posts...I choose to count that. So my number is 1.
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Wouldn't practically everyone end up with a Hatrack number of at least 2-3? It seems really easy to get someone to reply to at least one of your posts with a number of at least 2.
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Hmm... it seems everyone is focusing on the Erdos number, and no one seems to be noticing that the comic strip uses the word "dead" three times, and that Erdos is rising from the dead in the last panel.
Kinda missing the point, I think.
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: Hmm... it seems everyone is focusing on the Erdos number, and no one seems to be noticing that the comic strip uses the word "dead" three times, and that Erdos is rising from the dead in the last panel.
posted
BTW, Kevin Bacon is in Mystic River with Tim Robbins, who was in a play at Plattsburgh State University of NY. Dr. Ruth Klein, who was a theater professor and directed the play, had to play a part because the actor that had originally been cast dropped out. Anyone who did theater at SUNY Plattsburgh under Dr. Klein (such as my wife) would have Bacon number of 3. Anyone at that time period who was in any theatrical production at Plattsburgh that wasn't under Ruth Klein (such as myself) would certainly have a Bacon number of no greater than 4.
Also: Can musicians claim a Bacon number relationship based on musicians they've played with that have played with the Bacon Brothers?
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: Anyone who did theater at SUNY Plattsburgh under Dr. Klein (such as my wife) would have Bacon number of 3. Anyone at that time period who was in any theatrical production at Plattsburgh that wasn't under Ruth Klein (such as myself) would certainly have a Bacon number of no greater than 4.
Technically that's not true. They (and you and your wife) would have had to be in a play with her or someone who acted with her in order to have a Bacon number, not just work under her.
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Huh. So directors and producers that work directly with Kevin Bacon have infinite Bacon numbers?
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quote:Bacon number 2 (played frisbee with Ethan Hawke).
Doesn't count. You need to have been in a production with someone for it to count as a connection. Otherwise someone who sold Kevin Bacon some coffee would have a Bacon number of 1.
Or, you know, someone who sold Bacon bacon.
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Unless they starred on screen with him, yes.
It's actually something of an evolving relationship. Used to be it was only movies... though it was then opened to non-talk-show television, and then opened even wider. Not sure what would constitute true "Bacon number" at this point.
To me, adding anything beyond movies takes a lot of the challenge and interest out of the "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" concept, and as such, the "Bacon Number" concept. If you can get to the level of "So-and-so was in a third grade play with so-and-so, who was in a movie with Kevin Bacon", it just gets silly.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: Hmm... it seems everyone is focusing on the Erdos number, and no one seems to be noticing that the comic strip uses the word "dead" three times, and that Erdos is rising from the dead in the last panel.
Kinda missing the point, I think.
What she said. It was explained in some of the links on the first page, or there's Tom's explanation:
quote:Whereas entertainers might all be said to have a Kevin Bacon number -- i.e. their degree of separation from Kevin Bacon -- Erdos was named as a collaborator on so many papers in the hard sciences that many scientists of a certain age can be said to have a Paul Erdos number.
Unfortunately, Erdos is dead. There is therefore no way for someone to ever improve his or her own Erdos number beyond two degrees of separation, unless of course Erdos returns from the dead and is willing to put his name on a paper.
quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: Anyone who did theater at SUNY Plattsburgh under Dr. Klein (such as my wife) would have Bacon number of 3. Anyone at that time period who was in any theatrical production at Plattsburgh that wasn't under Ruth Klein (such as myself) would certainly have a Bacon number of no greater than 4.
Technically that's not true. They (and you and your wife) would have had to be in a play with her or someone who acted with her in order to have a Bacon number, not just work under her.
Technically, at least by all the definitions I've read, you would have to be in a film with someone who was in a film . . . . with someone who was in a film with Kevin Bacon to have a finite Kevin Bacon number. Stage doesn't count, its got to be on film.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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posted
Forget about Bacon numbers. Who cares about Kevin Bacon anyway.
What is your Star Trek number? (just invented here)
If you have had a speaking role in any Star Trek television episode or movie, you have a Star Trek number of zero. If you have had a speaking role in any theatrical production (stage or film) with someone who has a Star Trek number 0, you have a Star Trek number of 1.
Likewise one can have a Kirk number (or a Picard, Sisco, Janeway, Archer number). Only Shatner has a Kirk number of zero. Anyone who has shared a scene with Shatner in a Star Trek Episode or movie has a Kirk number of one. Anyone who has been in a theatrical production with someone who has been in a Star Trek scene with Kirk, has a Kirk number of 2 and so on. (Appearing with Shatner in something other than Star Trek does not count).
I was in a church production of Guys and Dolls with a friend who was in several college productions with Clayton Rohner who guest starred in the TNG episode "Too Short a Season". This gives me a Star Trek number of 2, a Picard number of 3 (since Rohner appeared in scenes with Picard) and a Kirk number of 4 since Picard and Kirk shared scenes in the movie "Star Trek, Generations."
Didn't Picard and Sisko meet in one of the early DS9 episodes? If so, I also have me a Sisko number of 4. Did Janeway ever appear with either Picard or Sisko?
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote: Did Janeway ever appear with either Picard or Sisko?
I remember seeing her give Picard orders by screen because I remember it confused the heck out of me. Apparently, it was one of the movies - after she'd made it back from the Delta quadrant and got promoted to Admiral. I don't know my Trek timeline well enough to know what that would be.
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My mother did research work for Star Trek 4, as when that movie went into production she was woring heavily on whale research for a children's science book on whales and someone in production asked her to assist with the whale song and whale behavior portions of the movie. People like that don't go into credits unfortunately Posts: 4112 | Registered: May 2001
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posted
According to Rabbit's rules, Chris Pine would have a Kirk number of 2. Though, one might expand the rules to give him a Kirk number of 0.
Posts: 3960 | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: To me, adding anything beyond movies takes a lot of the challenge and interest out of the "Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon" concept, and as such, the "Bacon Number" concept. If you can get to the level of "So-and-so was in a third grade play with so-and-so, who was in a movie with Kevin Bacon", it just gets silly.
Darn, there went my Bacon Number.
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quote:Originally posted by FlyingCow: According to Rabbit's rules, Chris Pine would have a Kirk number of 2. Though, one might expand the rules to give him a Kirk number of 0.
Perhaps we should call that a second order Kirk number to distinguish it from the original Kirk number.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
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quote:What she said. It was explained in some of the links on the first page, or there's Tom's explanation:
Erdos referred to people who didn't do math as being "dead." I assume this is similar to the maxim that an unexamined life is not worth living.
He also said that when he died he would stop becoming dumber. But instead of using the word "die" he used the word "leave" or "left."
Yes, the Erdos number is an important part of the strip, but the "apocolypse" when the "Dead walk the earth" is a pretty obvious reference, but nobody seemed to notice. The earth IS full of "dead" people. (But they don't know they're dead.)
Posts: 3735 | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: Erdos referred to people who didn't do math as being "dead."
I had forgotten about that peculiarity of his.
quote:Originally posted by Glenn Arnold: I assume this is similar to the maxim that an unexamined life is not worth living.
More likely it was a facet of his rather odd life outlook. I'm sure that according to his perspective, I am not only dead, but was never alive. Never having done graduate-level math, let alone journal-level.
I am oddly ok with that. I was raised by two math PhDs (well, one's physics, but close enough), but they have a family, in addition to doing math. I prefer that outlook to Erdos'.
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quote:I'm sure that according to his perspective, I am not only dead, but was never alive. Never having done graduate-level math, let alone journal-level.
quote:Throughout his life Erdös was drawn to areas of mathematics that did not require excessive technical knowledge; many problems that Erdös stated can be easily understood by high school students.
I think the whole story is worth reading. The man had a very interesting outlook. But I particularly like this part:
quote:The press tends to have stressed Erdös's many eccentricities and child-like dependence, painting a picture of a single-minded champion of an arcane world. To a certain extent, of course, this portrait is true, but to his mathematical friends he was far more. His warmth and compassion for his fellow mathematicians are as legendary as the dazzling body of work he left behind. A man who carried all his possessions in one small suitcase, he always found ways to help colleagues, even total strangers. The two times he lectured in India he arranged to have his fees paid to the impoverished widow of the great Indian mathematician, Ramanujan, a woman he had never met. In 1984 he won the $50,000 Wolf prize, by far the most money he ever received at one time in his life. He used $30,0000 to endow a postdoctoral fellowship at the Technion in Israel in the name of his mother and gave most of the rest to needy relatives and colleagues. "I kept only seven hundred and twenty dollars," Erdös said, "and I remember someone commenting that for me even that was a lot of money to keep."
The obituary of Erdös that ran in the Washington Post ended abruptly with the painful line "he left no immediate survivors." This bothered Charles Krauthammer, who wrote a touching editorial. In it he told the story of a young mathematician who wanted to go to Harvard but was short of money. "Erdös arranged to see him and lent him $1,000," Krauthammer wrote, "He told the young man he could pay it back when he was able to. Recently, the young man called Graham to say that he had gone through Harvard and now was teaching at Michigan and could finally pay the money back. What should he do?
"Graham consulted Erdös. Erdös said, 'Tell him to do with the $1,000 what I did.' No survivors, indeed."
quote: Did Janeway ever appear with either Picard or Sisko?
I remember seeing her give Picard orders by screen because I remember it confused the heck out of me. Apparently, it was one of the movies - after she'd made it back from the Delta quadrant and got promoted to Admiral. I don't know my Trek timeline well enough to know what that would be.
It was at the beginning of the last movie, "Nemesis." I don't know all the years and timeline details, either.
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Nemesis was a 'decent' movie, but was composed completely out of pieces from earlier movies. (Data/Spock's death, fight with a bird of prey that can fire when cloaked). If it WAS one's first Star Trek movie it probably would have been pretty interesting. If you'd already seen the other movies, though, it's not nearly as impressive because you've already seen the entire movie done better (and for the most part, with effects that were just as impressive).
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I knew what the Erdős number was and still didn't get the comic on my own. I knew Erdős was a great mathematician, but I didn't know a lower Erdős was "better".
Posts: 781 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
I've played guitar with someone who played guitar with someone who played keyboards with the Beatles. So does that make my Beatles number 3?
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