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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Yahtzee reviews Eve-Online on my prodding

   
Author Topic: Yahtzee reviews Eve-Online on my prodding
Blayne Bradley
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http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/208-Eve-Online


I was the ONLY person to say anything good about the game (in the Age of Conan review comment section goto page 6/7) SO that means that during the review he was entirely referring to me, I AM FAMOUS!

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Blayne Bradley
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My hero worship goes so far that even when I am being brutally mistreated I enjoy it [Big Grin]
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MattP
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I'm pretty sure he mentioned multiple requests for the review. I suspect he also got some emails.
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Sterling
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
My hero worship goes so far that even when I am being brutally mistreated I enjoy it [Big Grin]

That explains a lot, actually...
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Blayne Bradley
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Emails sent by me [Smile]
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Boris
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So I take it that he agrees that you are to nerds what nerds are to normal people.
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King of Men
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If fame is not to be had, seek notoriety.
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Ecthalion
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the only thing i didnt like about the game was that 90% of the titans are owned by BoB...
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Blayne Bradley
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only roughly 9-10 Titans are operated by BoB (Kinda like Nazi Germany fielding King Tigers) I'ld geuss 4-5 from Goons, 4 from Red Federation, and maybe another 4-6 scattered amonth the remaining ones, I know Smashkill was making one but Goon zergling rushed them.
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Primal Curve
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There are Zerg in Eve? Or is that a colloquialism?
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Samprimary
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to zerg something in a game where one person controls all produced units means to flood it with cheap, easily mass-produced units.

to zerg something in an mmo means that you accomplish tactical gains by simply flooding the battle with huge hordes of players.

For a huge cycle that is what eve was and to a large extent continues to be. System battles were determined by lag and mass quantities of people flooding in during off-peak hours.

Zerg is eve.

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Blayne Bradley
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incorrect, the major wars (ASCN vs Band of Brothers) for example were won with only for example a limited and small numbers of "lagged out" battles, the war was fought mostly through the the actual game mechanics of fighting system by system taking Personally Owned Stations, raiding the renter corps that fueled each others economies alongside with intelligent deployment of ships and tactical use of capital ships. Bob won for the most part by doing all of the above and being the equivalent to the Germans of 1942, Elite since BoB comprises of roughly the best players of the game and allied with Mercenary Coalition which is comprised of the best of the best of the freaking best players of the game.


Goonswarm adopted the "Zergling rush" of Eve-Online when they first fought bob, members created new eve accounts named BEE-XYZ where XYZ are numbers and simply sent waves of cheap easily created trial accounts and rookie recruited players to fight Bob, Bob gave up fighting them as they considered it pointless fighting players that lose nothing when podded.

Since then this was expanded to simply recruit anyone who was new to the game or a member of the SomethingAwful forums for at least 3 months giving them a huge amount of manpower which in conjuction with their alliance with Red Alliance allows them to fight wars with overwhelming numerical superiority.

Zerg is not eve, that's stupid thing to say as I'ld rate that 60-80% of engagements are still done on the small gang level of 5-30 people. Node crashing I personally don't think is the intended long term policy of any Alliance in EVE as a method to win a war, its like playing with Biological WMD's it could backfire, have some done it intentionally from time to time? Of course, but I am willing to even give Goonswarm the benefit of the doubt and state that node crashing is predominantly a accidental side effect of how the game mechanics work. The game encourages you to have massive fleet battles as its harder to accomplish the same with less, the Doomsday superweapons the Titans unfortunately while I think could have done the job perfectly of dispersing fleet engagements to something more reasonable (as in the ACSN-BOB war) they're nerfing it unfortunately once more encourages massive fleet battles.

HOWEVER I do not consider Zerging a badthing, think of it this way no amount of level 1's in WoW can ever beat a level 70 period, prove me wrong and I will eat my words but for now this is absolute fact.

In EvE online even 9 newbs in cleverly fitted rookie ships can defeat a Tier-3 battleship.

In strategic terms a corp if well organized with 900 rookie members can beat any smaller number of "Elite" players albeit on more practical terms with major losses.

That is one of EvE's major advantages and why Zergling Rush is a legitmate strategy in any decently applied game. The node crashing is unfortunate but nothing is perfect and hardware improves exponentially.

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Samprimary
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quote:
HOWEVER I do not consider Zerging a badthing, think of it this way no amount of level 1's in WoW can ever beat a level 70 period, prove me wrong and I will eat my words but for now this is absolute fact.
Man, I don't even know where you're trying to go with this. You don't zerg in mmo's with level ones. You zerg by piling on as many active players as possible to wrench over lesser defenses with numbers. In fact it sounds very similar to .. oh, look.

quote:
The game encourages you to have massive fleet battles as its harder to accomplish the same with less
Well, gee. Thanks for backing me up.
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Samprimary
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Also hold the phones I am going to take a look through my special TIME LENS and observe the previous argument we had about this inane subject.

PEER THROUGH SAM'S MAGIC TIME LENS

quote:
quote:
Except your completely ignorant of how EVE works Samp which is why you also lack credibility to bash the game we enjoy, you do not have to grind in EVE, you cannot buy ISK either
If you actually believe that you can't buy ISK then you are really, really naive.

Secondly, I'm actually not ignorant of how EVE works, though I think it's totally charming how you invariably use this sort of thing as a counter against people you perceive as attacking the games you like; they must just 'be ignorant' of it. I actually played it until the crappiness of the GUI removed all my interest in the game. It also suffers from unfixable lag which defines fleet battles and causes the titan superweapons to be a critically unmanaged game balance issue, you need more POSs than the other side to keep Sov and thus control over station systems thus making late eve a space variant of ZERG WARZ.

Note the portions of my previous post which I have bolded!

Do you know why they nerfed the superweapons?

Because people would jump into a massive fleet engagement and sit and stare at their loading screen due to lag while the enemy's superweapon charged up. I guess I was right then and now about how Eve combat is primarily defined by numbers and lag. Funny, that.

By the way, Blayne — my buddies who sell ISK are still very much so in business.

Nothing has happened to them.

nothing has happened to the people who macromine.

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Blayne Bradley
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Your bias against EVE doesn't detract from my overal point that EVE is a unique and good game.

As about your buddies selling isk, give me their account names and I will see to it that they are banned. You cannot complain about the state of ISK sellers if you do nothing to stop it.

Also, your being incredibly pretentious "nothing has happened to people who macromine" you cannot possible back that up with anything resembling fact.

The game is not defined by zerg wars, only 10% of fleet battles I would compare as being zerg wars, you are still ignorant.

For you see in MMO's you don't zerg at all I have almost never seen a credible situation in WoW where rushing massive amounts of active players somehow in any way accomplished anything at all. That wasn't even the point, I was making a comparison in EVE even the most green behind the ears poor newb can still accomplish something if he brings enough friends even if they are all newbs if they have a little bit of better organization.

In WoW even fi you had 7000 level 1's you cannot do a single damn thing.

next, it is not backing you up, the game encourages large fleet battles it doesn't mean it encourages node crashing behavior as often then not it backfires. Goon lost a Titan to Smash when they tried it.

unfixable lag (not unfixable btw) only defined that 10% most reasonable fleet battles don't have that much lag, most lag is from FPS lag from 90% of players having shitty machines.

EVE (in terms of sov wars) is as complex as real wars, zergling rushes are a part of it but not the only part, BOB for example still relies on having high quality pilots and modules over large numbers of active players and they win more then they lose.

Looking through the EVE-tribune the situations where node crashes accured were pretty exceptional from 2004 to now usually only happening around really key targets like D2's Titan and capital shipyards.

They nerfed titans because they could remotely use the DDW through cyno fields, something the devs thought inappropriate. I would like EVE to be more about small fleet battles as much as anyone and like more crowd dispersing abilities but its no reason to bash on the game with as much frothing at the mouth bias as you are.

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Juxtapose
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quote:
For you see in MMO's you don't zerg at all I have almost never seen a credible situation in WoW where rushing massive amounts of active players somehow in any way accomplished anything at all.
This is a viable strategy for a well organized premade in Arathi Basin.
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Blayne Bradley
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And what did they accomplish? And either way, wasn't my point.
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Juxtapose
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Oh, I know. You said as much below the section I quoted. It's just that a well executed AB zerg is some of the most fun I've had in that battleground, and I wanted to point it out. [Smile]
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Samprimary
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quote:
Your bias against EVE
quote:
its no reason to bash on the game with as much frothing at the mouth bias as you are.
quote:
blargh blafghg lolrgalg bflrangrg
Psst.

Hey blayne.

Hey come here.

Check it out.

quote:
Lol posted by Samprimary lol
I don't actively dislike eve. Even though I have no personal interest in playing the game anymore and have not for a long time, it's one of those games that's fun to hear stories about.

lol.

quote:
You cannot complain about the state of ISK sellers if you do nothing to stop it.
Why would I complain? They're just being super helpful in proving that I was right after all.

See, it's extra helpful to zero in on the completely indefensible points you make like "You cannot buy ISK" so that you can gauge how willing you are to, you know, retract those points, rather than go on a madhouse fanboy spree. You haven't even suggested you worded yourself wrong. It sets the level of discourse!

You are nothing if not entertaining!

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TomDavidson
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quote:
prove me wrong and I will eat my words but for now this is absolute fact.
Oh, Lord, there are times when I wish Hatrack had .sigs. [Smile]
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T:man
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Whats the point of freighters if they can be killed so easily? I wanna be a trader, and just make money.
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Blayne Bradley
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quote:
Originally posted by Juxtapose:
quote:
For you see in MMO's you don't zerg at all I have almost never seen a credible situation in WoW where rushing massive amounts of active players somehow in any way accomplished anything at all.
This is a viable strategy for a well organized premade in Arathi Basin.
I haven't played much wow, but I do have many friends who do, I have spoken with my friend who has numerous 70's and was in one of the top 3 raiding guilds on his server aaaaand they don't work. Zergling rushes will ONCE IN A WHILE take a point but almost immediately they would take it back, against his guild zergling rush won't work against any competant group it won't work.
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Blayne Bradley
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I picked up a new C++ book and a book on OpenGL (4th edtion superbible) I don't expect to apply OpenGL to it though I've been told its not hard to learn.

Looking through SDL in my spare time.

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fugu13
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Did you mean to post this in your ORPG thread?

Which C++ did you pick up? The OpenGL book is a good read; the basics aren't too awful, though using it efficiently can be fairly complicated.

Good to hear you're reading up on the SDL.

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Juxtapose
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quote:
Originally posted by Blayne Bradley:
quote:
Originally posted by Juxtapose:
quote:
For you see in MMO's you don't zerg at all I have almost never seen a credible situation in WoW where rushing massive amounts of active players somehow in any way accomplished anything at all.
This is a viable strategy for a well organized premade in Arathi Basin.
I haven't played much wow, but I do have many friends who do, I have spoken with my friend who has numerous 70's and was in one of the top 3 raiding guilds on his server aaaaand they don't work. Zergling rushes will ONCE IN A WHILE take a point but almost immediately they would take it back, against his guild zergling rush won't work against any competant group it won't work.
Considering the gear he and his guildies are probably rocking, I'm guessing there aren't a lot of strategies that work at all. Asking if the strategy is effective against a full guild premade wearing T6 is maybe not the best way to evaluate the strategy.

I suppose you could argue that if the strategy isn't viable at the very top levels of play it doesn't count, but that's not really an argument against what I was saying.

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Xavier
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quote:
This is a viable strategy for a well organized premade in Arathi Basin.
Premade >>> PUG

It pretty much doesn't matter what strategy you guys use, you're going to win most games with a well organized group (that probably has universally decent gear) against the average rag-tag bunch of people thrown together. Did you ever try zerging against another premade? How did that work out?

I don't think that's a very good example of zerging working in WoW.

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King of Men
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Well, if Clan O is afraid of zergs, it must be a viable strategy, no?
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