quote:Can you provide something to refute it that isn't from the Dali Lhama, Epoch Times, Falung Gong or anyone affiliated? Yes my source is the Chinese government but since they are the only government to have conducted an official census of tibet in recent memory they are as Mucus says all we can go on, allegations by obviously biased sources such as the Tibetan Government in Exile cannot possibly be considered.
Then why didn't you (or couldn't you) source it directly?
And if allegations by obviously biased sources cannot be considered, why are you defaulting to a biased source?
I am defaulting to the only officially recognized source.
Blayne, read my posts. can you directly source me or not.Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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99 ^ Department of Population, Social, Science and Technology Statistics of the National Bureau of Statistics of China (国家统计局人口和社会科技统计司) and Department of Economic Development of the State Ethnic Affairs Commission of China (国家民族事务委员会经济发展司), eds. Tabulation on Nationalities of 2000 Population Census of China (《2000年人口普查中国民族人口资料》). 2 vols. Beijing: Nationalities Publishing House (民族出版社), 2003 (ISBN 7-105-05425-5).
99 ^ Department of Population, Social, Science and Technology Statistics of the National Bureau of Statistics of China (国家统计局人口和社会科技统计司) and Department of Economic Development of the State Ethnic Affairs Commission of China (国家民族事务委员会经济发展司), eds. Tabulation on Nationalities of 2000 Population Census of China (《2000年人口普查中国民族人口资料》). 2 vols. Beijing: Nationalities Publishing House (民族出版社), 2003 (ISBN 7-105-05425-5).
posted
It seems to me that most have no idea what the Western U.S. is like. These states just don't get put into the equation, as usual, especially in relation to the indian population. What I believe will happen is this:
Some cities in the Eastern United States will get put into upheaval. Other cities will live much like they have for at least two or three years (self isolation) because of talented leadership. However, these too will fall into anarchy when supplies become scarce. The East will become consumed by mob violence, desperation, and eventually social tribalism built very much around racial lines.
The South will remain relatively intact, with a few cities that will be in the same situation as the East. If the South survives becoming completely tribal, it will be a coherent whole. It will ultimately be dominated by Northern Texas and perhaps become Baptist theocratic after a long struggle against secularists and other religions. Blacks in the country will flee to the cities.
The North Eastern States will also be tribal in the cities and fuedal in the country. A few states that boarder Canada will try to petition joining Canada for economic and social stability reasons.
The states of Southern Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, Northern Colorado, Northern Arizona, and a large portion of Nevada will become Deseret. That means, like the South, it will be a theocratic government controlled by the Mormons. This will become possible because many will see that is where stability (if not ideology and belief) exists in a vacume.
Southern Texas, and the Southern parts of Mexico boardering Western states including California, will become ethnic war zones between Latinos and other groups. As for American Indians, they will be isolated and perhaps mostly wiped out or integrated within other groups. Any American Indian uprisings will be put down pretty much the way they were in Canada during the 90s; big news item followed by complete failure. Any American Indian success will follow the fuedalims path of other urban areas.
The Pacfic States will be Communist and consider itself a country. Southern California, as stated will have a Latino (Mexico backed) uprising. If the Pacific States allow itself to be annexed by Mexico will be a toss up. There might be an identity based civil war.
The remaining Midwestern states that don't join any larger areas will become fuedal and seperatist. I believe most the the U.S. will look much like the early Middle Ages, with a few clear organized sections.
I believe some of what the Decline and Breakup of the USA said could become true. However, it will be so because of outside and not inside forces. About five years after the US breakup, other countries will attack and seek control. Mexico will gain ground, China will gain ground, some European countries will even invade and gain ground. Canada will eventuall annex a few states. It will be carved up like a turkey among many nations. If any Islamic nations are part of that feast, it will only be Iran who will have grown in stature equal to Sadi Arabia. In the end the U.S. will look much like it did before the War of Independance with some different players.
Internationally Israel will be destroyed and return to what it was before WWII, but without English control. Most other nations will remain virtually intact, although Mulsims will have taken over parts of Europe in disorganized chunks. England will be a two government system; the official English monarchy and democratic government, and unofficially Islamic law under the table.
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posted
Blayne, I'm having that data checked out. My question is where is the longitudinal data that you use to state what you did, or was it due to an official statement by China's government?
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quote:Originally posted by Occasional: It seems to me that most have no idea what the Western U.S. is like.
if this is what you think would ever plausibly happen, then you are one of those people who have no realistic conceptualization of the western united states at all.
Seriously that big block of text is a laffo paranoid hypothetical
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quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Seriously that big block of text is a laffo paranoid hypothetical
The whole time I was skimming through it I was going... so this depends on some kind of natural disaster that reduces the American population by 90%... because why would things just suddenly go up for grabs?
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posted
Actually, you guys bought the Hudson's Bay Company, I think they had all the smallpox laden blankets
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
quote:Originally posted by Samprimary: Blayne, I'm having that data checked out. My question is where is the longitudinal data that you use to state what you did, or was it due to an official statement by China's government?
And why does this matter?
Anyways
quote: Jampa Phuntsok, chairman of the TAR, has also said that the central government has no policy of migration into Tibet due to its harsh high-altitude conditions, that the 6% Han in the TAR is a very fluid group mainly doing business or working, and that there is no immigration problem.
Because china lies frequently and, in fact, does have a policy of migration and displacement.
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Blayne Bradley
unregistered
posted
and aside from Tibetan Gov't in Exile saying it, has a reputable source outside of back up your claims? If the number of Hans is ~6% in the TAR then how can theyre be a systematic "cultural genocide"?
So far the only sources I have seen are groups like the Epoch Times and their ilk claiming such.
The point is that in any scholarly debate as much as you may distrust the source any government provided statistics by official organs of government are infinitely more valid as a point of reference then what some hippy activist comes up with from his arse.
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Altitude sickness commonly occurs above 2400metres/~7875feet elevation; and ChronicMountainSickness at above 3000metres/~9840feet. Lhasa is 3650metres/~11,975feet above sealevel. The Tibetan Plateau has an average elevation of over 4500metres/~14,760feet.
Until China's recent economic boom, China had little interest in Tibet other than to maintain its long-held suzerainity, and to prevent foreign powers from seizing the headwaters of its rivers (as well as those of other nations). ie It had little use for Han settlers other than to fill "revolving door" administrative positions, to provide services to those administrators, and to support its military presence.
The current boom has fueled mineral exploration and timber exploitation, and undoubtedly an influx of Han settlers interested in making moolah exploiting those newly found ore deposits as well as the timber resources. But that's capitalism for ya. White man discovers gold in California, and it's pretty easy to lure Chinese workers to build the railroads, do the laundry, run the restaurants, etc with wages that far exceed those available at home.
"Because China lies frequently..."
The problem being that the existence of military/political specialists/analysts depends upon the existence of enemies. Been that way since "What's good for GM is good for the country" ChiefExecutiveOfficer-turned-USDefenseSecretary decided "that in order to prevent a return to the Great Depression, the United States needed a 'permanent war economy'." No enemy, no funding. So it behooves them to interpret the facts to find enemies. And if the facts don't support that finding, to make misleading use of the facts to strongly imply that the enemy exists.
Since both sides have incentive to lie, I haven't a clue as to whether "a policy of [forced] migration and displacement" toward Tibet exists, ever existed. Considering that Tibetans are MUCH more suited to living at high altitudes than Han, it would be incredibly wasteful of human*resources if that were true.
* Not meant to imply that Maoists ever cared about wasting people. But Maoists haven't been in power for 32years.
posted
I'll just add that I've know and backpacked with a Sherpa, and I can tell you, he was superhuman.
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