quote:Originally posted by JennaDean: KQ, since this has come up, there's something I've been meaning to ask you. My son is 6 (like, nearly 7), but he's tiny. He's just under 40 pounds. He's still in his booster seat with the 5-point harness, but I'm not sure whether to take off the harness and switch him to the belt-booster yet. He's tall enough, but doesn't weigh enough (the seat supposedly works with the harness up to 40 pounds). What is the danger in using the harness longer? Or is there a benefit to keeping him IN the harness even though he's taller than your average toddler?
Does this even make sense?
First of all, you need to determine whether he still fits the harness by height. A harness is outgrown forward-facing when one of the following 3 things occurs:
1. The weight limit is exceeded. 2. The child's shoulders are over the top harness slot. 3. The tip of the child's ears go above the shell of the seat.
Obviously he hasn't exceeded the weight limit yet. Is he within the other limitations? If so, he still fits by height. If not, he must move out of that seat, and either get a taller harnessed seat, or switch to a booster.
If the seat is not expired and he still fits by height and weight, there are some safety benefits to keeping him harnessed, and there is no danger. However, at almost 7, the benefits to a harness over a booster are small enough that if he is asking to sit in a booster a high backed booster is an appropriate choice IF he fits appropriately. (If he's not asking, I'd keep him harnessed; I feel more secure knowing my kids are kept in position by the harness and I don't have to trust them to sit properly in a booster. However it depends on your situation. I find harnesses easier especially in a 3-across situation because no one's hand gets mashed trying to buckle a booster; however if you carpool a booster may be an easier choice for that. In either case he will have to stop using the harness in a 40 lb. seat when he reaches 40 lbs. fully clothed.)
To fit appropriately in a booster the following conditions must be met:
1. The child must meet the minimum age and weight guidelines set by the manufacturer (most manufacturers set a U.S. minimum guideline of either 30 or 40 lbs., and at 7 he is an appropriate age for a booster.)
2. The child has not outgrown the booster in question (more on that below.)
3. The shoulder belt must be positioned on the child touching the chest, crossing in the middle of the shoulder, between the neck and the arm.
4. The lap belt must be held down low on the child, away from the abdomen and touching the thighs instead.
5. The child must have the ability to sit properly the entire trip, not leaning forward, turning around, or otherwise moving out of position. This includes while sleeping if the child falls asleep in the car.
A high-backed booster should be used instead of a low-backed booster as long as possible, because it provides extra side-impact protection and helps keep a sleeping child in position. While learning how to ride in a booster you may want to lock your child's shoulder belt if you have switchable locking belts, because it will help keep him from leaning forward and remind him to sit properly.
A note on outgrowing high-backed boosters: a high-backed booster seat is outgrown when the child's shoulder goes above the top belt guide/belt guide setting or the child's ears go above the top of the seat's shell. (A low-backed booster is outgrown when the child's ears go above the top of the headrest or vehicle seat back. Of note, some high-backed boosters/combination seats are outgrown at the same time even if the child's ears are not above the shell, because they are not reinforced and require vehicle support. In the U.S. these seats are made by the Dorel family-- Eddie Bauer, Cosco, Maxi-Cosi, Safety 1st, and Alpha Sport/Alpha Elite brands all fall under this parent company and all have this rule.)
One thing to be very careful about is fit. Combination seats (including the 3-in-1 seats) do not usually make very good boosters; they tend to position the belt incorrectly. (There are a few exceptions-- the Graco Nautilus, Britax Frontier, and Evenflo Symphony have all been reported to make decent boosters, although fit should still be checked individually on each child before using one as such.) Here are some reviews showing pictures of why they do not fit correctly as boosters for most children:
The series isn't complete yet but I'm sure she'll eventually get to the other Cosco/Eddie Bauer seats... The bottom line is you have to check the fit on your child before you put him in it as a booster. If it does not position the belt correctly, or if it is outgrown (top of ears over the top) you need to get a different booster. Again, a high-back booster provides many safety benefits over a low-backed booster, so I would recommend a high-back booster, but you need to try him in it before buying it (or buy online from someone who offers return shipping insurance) so that he winds up in one that positions the belt correctly for him (since this is different for each kid.) Some boosters don't seem to position the belt right on most kids, but that's no guarantee that they won't fit YOUR kid, or that your kid will fit in one that fits most kids. Build is so individual it has to be assessed individually. (For instance, the Evenflo Big Kid Deluxe booster is cited often as one that doesn't fit most kids; however I have seen a few who it fit really well.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:Originally posted by ketchupqueen: There are currently no seats that rear- and forward-face harness AND make a good booster. There are seats that make a good forward-facing harness and booster, and there are seats that claim to do all three-- but the ones that claim to do all three do not actually make a good booster. So eventually you will have to buy another seat, be it combo seat and booster. Luckily there are now some great, inexpensive combo seats on the market. And it will be years before you will have to buy one in any case-- at least 2 years at the least.
In your price range, here are my recommendations (cheapest to most expensive):
-Safety 1st Avenue. This seat only harnesses to 40 lbs. BUT has a very tall shell. It lasts most kids all the way to 40 lbs., even tall skinny ones. My 35 lb., long-torsoed daughters both still fit in it by height and even have room to grow. Rear faces to 35 lbs. (highest limit currently on the U.S. market.) Sometimes needs a chunk of pool noodle or rolled towel to achieve good rear-facing install/recline. About $75-90 depending on store, sales, coupons, etc. (I'm not sure but this seat MAY have an 8 year expiration instead of 6 year. If so it would be an excellent candidate for passing down to a younger sib if stored and cleaned properly and not crashed in that time.)
-Evenflo Triumph Advance. Has a fairly tall shell, infinite adjusting harness (never have to re-thread it), rear-faces to 35 lbs. and forward-faces to 50. Gets many kids to an acceptable booster age. Sometimes the adjustment knobs hit the seatback while rear-facing in cars with very contoured seats (don't know if your car has those, never seen one.) About $120 to $160 depending on sales and on model (regular or deluxe, etc.; there's no specs difference, just make sure it's the ADVANCE, not the regular Triumph.)
-First Years True Fit. This seat has a detachable top portion that you don't have to use until 22 lbs. or bottom part is outgrown by height. When the top part is attached, it has the tallest seat back of any seat currently on the market, great for both rear-facing and forward-facing kids until they don't need to be. Rear-facing harnesses to 35 lbs., forward-faces to 65, and will get most kids to a safe booster age. Between $165 and $200.
The Avenue is available at Sears and K-Mart as well as online; the other two are available at many major retailers including most Targets, if you want to look at them in person.
If you'd like help finding deals on the one you choose, e-mail me, my carseat boards usually keep track of what's the best buy on all these seats on a regular basis.
My budget has gone up to around 200, a bit over is okay. kq, are your recommendations the same?
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The only change I would make to the list are the following things:
-I have found out that the True Fits were stopped being manufactured in May or so of last year to make way for redesigned models to be released this March or so (they want to sell out all/most of the old inventory before they release the new ones, which are currently in production) so be aware that you will have lost probably a year or so of life on the seat if you buy that one, though you will probably be able to find a great deal (they have a 7 year life, unlike most seats which expire after 6, so it's not a bad tradeoff to make, IMO.)
-Add the Sunshine Kids Radian 65, though you may want to try to figure out whether it will install well in your car BEFORE buying, or buy from a store that offers return insurance if you choose this one, because some people have install issues in some cars once you go forward-facing. I can help with finding information on either of those subjects if you like the seat and need the information. Pros: steel frame, 8 year expiration, folds for easy carrying, lasts a long time, narrow to allow for other passengers (or someday maybe car seats.) Allows rear-facing tethering for additional stability in side- and rear-impact crashes (most seats don't.) Cons: difficult install in some cars (impossible in a few), takes up a lot of room rear-facing (though sometimes it will fit in between the 2 front seats, which makes that a non-issue.) RF to 35 lbs., FF to 65, 17 inch top slots but is the only seat that allows use past the top slots until the ears are even with the top (usually about another inch.)
-Also add the Britax Marathon. RF to 35, FF to 65 lbs., 16.5 or 17 inch top slots. It will run you about $230 once the sale starts (the twice yearly Britax sale will start on Feb. 2 or 5, I can't remember which, although there's a store that will offer these prices now if you need them.) The Marathon is very easy to install, a parent favorite for ease of use, allows rear-facing tethering, and there's a thriving resale market in Marathon covers (original equipment approved by the manufacturer, not aftermarket covers, which are a no-no) so if you ruin a cover or get bored you can easily change it up. High resale value, even if you use all the way to the expiration date you will be able to re-sell the cover (covers don't expire) and get at least $30 (often much more, depending on what pattern you get) for the cover to put toward your next seat.
Both the Marathon and the Radian get many kids to a safe booster age, although if they don't, there are higher-slotted and even higher-weight combo seats available to do the job if necessary.
Oh, and I checked; the Avenue does have an 8 year expiration.
ETA: checked, and the Britax sale is neither the 2nd nor the 5th, but starts the 1st and will run through the 10th.
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We adore John's Radian and are planning to get one for Charles this spring. Mom & Dad are also considering replacing the Graco seat that they have with a Radian because it's so much easier to get the kid in and out of.
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dkw, you might want to check out the new Radian XT.
It's the Radian, but with side-impact protection.
I just bought one for my cousin's kid. I really really wish I could justify replacing our Radians (we have 4, 3 in daily use-- I'd like to do at least the 2 on the outside seats) with XTs... But I can't. Yet. Especially considering I just got killer deals on two SafeGuard Child Seats.
Anyway, if you're going to want an XT any time soon you'll have to order quickly, though. They're fast selling out; SKJP didn't make enough on the initial run and they apparently shipped to some stores before others, and now some stores won't get theirs in (and no one will get another shipment) until April, because they didn't make enough to meet the demand (I guess they didn't realize how many people in the CPS community have been saying, "I need a narrow seat and I would buy a Radian if only it had side impact protection...")
The other seats have also been redesigned with some of the new features of the XT.
They're a little more expensive but I think worth it (new MSRP is 220 for the 65, 250 for the 80, and 280 for the XT, I believe.) And they come in cool colors for both boys and girls-- besides 2 kinds of grey (mesh and plush) they come in red and pink! (If you can wait until April but want them I also have a code to a store that's doing pre-orders but has none in stock right now for 15% off.)
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I thought of something else... we have a chicco infant seat currently, and the back of the carseat hits the back of the front passenger seat. There doesn't seem to be a lot of room. Some of those convertible seats seem pretty deep.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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I thought of something else... we have a chicco infant seat currently, and the back of the carseat hits the back of the front passenger seat. There doesn't seem to be a lot of room. Some of those convertible seats seem pretty deep.
Do you have the seat in front fully upright? That can really create a lot of room, IME.
Because a convertible can be installed more upright than an infant seat when not used with a newborn who needs the full 45 degrees (as upright as 30 degrees is safe, except the True Fit which allows up to 35 degrees) most convertibles end up taking up about the same amount of room as an infant seat or even less. So if you can get the Keyfit in there (which is not a super-small infant seat either) you definitely have room for even the big convertibles, as long as your child doesn't have low muscle tone or something that prevents sitting more upright. I usually put the seat more upright starting at 5 or 6 months. At 9 months, barring medical conditions, you should be fine.
While SKJP does allow a more upright installation, because of the way the base on the Radian works, it's unlikely you'll be able to get one to get the space you need. So that probably rules out the Radian.
In any case, most manufacturers allow their seats to touch the seat in front as long as the car allows it (I assume you've checked your manual to make sure it's not disallowed in the position you're using.)
Evenflo is the only manufacturer that does NOT allow this in any of their seats. So that would rule out the Triumph Advance from the list.
The Avenue, Marathon, and True Fit can all touch the seat in front and be installed in the space of an infant carrier or less.
(Notes though: many parents don't like to have the Avenue as fully upright as it can go, because the harness adjuster tends to get lost. Ditto the True Fit. Though some parents don't have a problem with it; it seems to depend on the contours of your vehicle seat. The True Fit requires space between it and the vehicle seat when used without the top part of the shell; it may touch when the top part of the shell is on. At 22 lbs. or when the child's head is less than 1 inch from the top of the bottom part the top part has to be put on anyway, so that's not really a big deal as far as caveats go.)
My personal preference between the 3 seats, if I were choosing today, would be the True Fit. I feel it's the best value of the three as far as functionality/price balance. But, do check them all out. The Avenue is at Sears and KMart only, I think. Babies R Us will allow you to check their floor models out in your car to see how they install and most Babies R Us stores have both the True Fit and the Marathon. For the heck of it they should also have the Evenflo Triumph Advance and you could see if you can get a decent install on that without touching the seat in front. And, they have the NEW model Alpha Omega Elite/Eddie Bauer 3-in-1 (which now has usable top slots and harnesses to 50 lbs., so if you really like it it's a decent seat, but I think it's overpriced for what it is, and it is still an awful booster, and if it's used in a car with low seat backs, it's outgrown when the child's ears go over the top of the vehicle seat back, not the car seat, which could mean it's outgrown sooner in some cars. Oh, and it is an absolute BEAR to install, especially with the base on, and the rules about using and not using the base can be confusing. For those reasons I didn't put it on my recommendations list.)
I plan to bring my next baby home in a True Fit (though I want the new model coming out with an anti-rebound bar) unless a better convertible comes out before then in the same price range.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Well, ketchupqueen, I got wooed in the store by another car seat, and now I'm having second thoughts--did I just spend a boatload of money for nothing??
I was all set to buy the Evenflo Triumph Advance at Baby's R Us, when I asked the salesman if I was missing out on anything by not considering the other models there. He pointed out the Britax seats and told me how they are tested beyond Government standards and are the safest seats out there, with their side-impact protection and the bases that crumple during an accident to transfer the impact away from the baby's seat. Well, I REALLY liked that, and I thought would the $100+ I would save really mean anything to me if I were ever in an accident with my precious baby?
I deliberated for a while, then I decided to get the seat. I got the most expensive one because it was the only one with the latch system--the Britax Boulevard. It's still in the box in my livingroom. (We haven't gone anywhere yet.) I was disappointed when I realized that it will not work as a booster later--I think it should for the money it cost.
So, are my fears unfounded? Is my daughter just as safe in another seat, such as the Evenflo Triumph Advance? I'm willing to accept the higher cost if in return I am actually getting a safer ride for my girl.
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How much WOULD a little extra safety cost? I mean, if you could keep your kid completely safe from harm in a seat costing $5,000, would you do it?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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No. I couldn't. And I'd have to think about the other cost to her having that much safety. Is that $5,000 for a bubble and bubble tunnel system? Seems like $5000 would be extreme. That much safety would be a detriment to her development.
But I don't know...is this really the same thing? If we're in a side-impact collision, I think it is conceivable that extra protection against a side-impact collision could make a big difference. I don't really know what a seat without a crump-able base would do--but if those other seats are rated safe, then they can't be that bad.
I'm really trying to figure out what you mean by your comment. Are you trying to point out that safe is safe and it's ridiculous or extreme to overspend? OR are you saying that it's important to be as safe as possible so what's another $100? OR are you trying to ridicule me for going overboard? I am perplexed.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Katarain: Well, ketchupqueen, I got wooed in the store by another car seat, and now I'm having second thoughts--did I just spend a boatload of money for nothing??
I was all set to buy the Evenflo Triumph Advance at Baby's R Us, when I asked the salesman if I was missing out on anything by not considering the other models there. He pointed out the Britax seats and told me how they are tested beyond Government standards and are the safest seats out there, with their side-impact protection and the bases that crumple during an accident to transfer the impact away from the baby's seat. Well, I REALLY liked that, and I thought would the $100+ I would save really mean anything to me if I were ever in an accident with my precious baby?
I deliberated for a while, then I decided to get the seat. I got the most expensive one because it was the only one with the latch system--the Britax Boulevard. It's still in the box in my livingroom. (We haven't gone anywhere yet.) I was disappointed when I realized that it will not work as a booster later--I think it should for the money it cost.
So, are my fears unfounded? Is my daughter just as safe in another seat, such as the Evenflo Triumph Advance? I'm willing to accept the higher cost if in return I am actually getting a safer ride for my girl.
What say you?
I think it's a very safe seat and a good choice. However a few points:
-All seats on the market offer the LATCH system.
-All Britax convertibles and the Sunshine Kids Radian seats offer rear-facing tethering, not just the Boulevard.
-All car seats are designed to absorb energy in a crash and disperse it away from the child. That's a major part of how they operate. Do some do it better? Probably. But they don't publish their results so we don't know. Which brings me to
-While Britax claims higher testing standards, they don't publish their results. Sunshine Kids Juvenile Products is the only company that does that, and so we don't know how Britax really does on these tests, or what their side-impact testing consists of. There is no federal standard for side impact testing; a company could hit a seat with a sledgehammer and call it "side impact testing." (I don't think they DO but the fact remains they don't tell us what they do or don't do and account for and what numbers they consider acceptable and what they get.)
-There is no proven benefit to head wings in a side-impact or any other crash to a rear-facing child. Rear-facing is in and of itself so much safer and containment so good in any rear-facing seat, especially a rear-facing tethered one, that the benefit of the head wings is probably negligable until the child is forward-facing. Rear-facing as long as possible provides more protection than foam or head wings ever could.
-That said, the Boulevard's head wings do seem well-designed to protect and contain the head of an older, forward-facing child in a side-impact or oblique crash. So looking ahead, it's a good investment for when your child outgrows the seat rear-facing, and in the meantime can provide additional comfort. However
-You are probably still not going to be able to make it to 5 or 6 (my preferred age for a booster) in the Boulevard, though you might. It has slightly lower top slots than a Marathon, their other popular model. By the time you're ready to switch to a combo seat, there will be new seats on the market which may do what the Boulevard does even better.
So in the end it wasn't a BAD purchase but not one I'm sure I'd make for use only by a rear-facing child at this time. And btw, I personally never ask the BRU salespeople for advice on car seats, they are prone to giving some really bad advice (unless they are techs) and/or going for the big sale (what they seem to have done with you.)
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Thanks so much for your advice! I've felt pretty iffy after making the purchase. I just may return and get another type.
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Either way, the safest thing you can do is keep your child rear-facing to the limits of the seat. There are actually seats that accomodate that a lot longer than the Boulevard (such as the First Years True Fit and the Sunshine Kids Radian) and for less money.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Yes, I definitely want her rear-facing as long as possible. I thought 35 pounds was the highest rear-facing limit you could get in the US.
ETA: Oh, I forgot that it's not all about the weight but the height of the back. Ooops. There's a lot to remember with seats, I don't know how you do it! (But I'm glad you do.)
Posts: 2880 | Registered: Jun 2004
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Yes, it's about the back height. Although I know some people who have made a parental decision to use an EU-certified 55 lbs. rear-facing seat in the US despite its illegality... I may have entertained that thought at times myself... *looks innocent*
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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kq, we're wondering what to do with our gargantuan son. Pretty soon we'll need new car seats, as we're borrowing a couple of Britax Roundabouts from my wife's cousin, and they will need to be returned eventually because the cousin has a new 3-month-old.
So our son moved into the rear-facing convertible basically as soon as his head stability was good. He's currently 10-months-old, and at his 9-and-a-half-month checkup he was 32 inches and 22.5 pounds (he's closer to 22 pounds right now as he lost some weight due to a stomach bug he had last week).
He's in the top shoulder straps of the Britax now, though I don't think he's too close to the size limit yet (but all it takes is one growth spurt...). Are there convertible seats that can keep him rear-facing for as long as possible at his size? He obviously needs to remain rear-facing until a his first birthday, as a minimum.
The Roundabout is actually one of the smaller convertibles on the market.
The shoulder straps aren't an issue rear-facing because they should always be at or below the shoulders rear-facing, so it's okay to go over. However, you're right that to remain rear-facing to the limits (and at that weight you have a LONG TIME before you will have to turn him due to weight-- the bare minimum recommended is 2 years and 30 lbs. but if you can get him to 3 rear-facing, or when he hits 35 lbs., that's even better) you will need a bigger seat.
The two seats with the tallest shells on the market are the Sunshine Kids Radian seats (at his size I'm betting you won't need the extra weight of the 80 and the XT head protection only really comes into play when forward-facing, so I'd recommend the 65 as most cost-effective) or the First Years True Fit (they are coming out with a new one in a few months that will have an anti-rebound bar if that is something you would be interested in.) If you can tell me your budget for the seat(s) and whether you need one or two, I can give you more specific recommendations for ones that will last a good long time for you, depending on what you want. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:He's currently 10-months-old, and at his 9-and-a-half-month checkup he was 32 inches and 22.5 pounds
Wow, that IS huge. My two-year-old isn't much bigger than that. I think she's about 25 pounds now.
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My ten month old GIRL was BIGGER than that at 9 months. I do have some experience with large children. And, so much of it is in her torso that she's above the fourth slots on her Radian. She wears a size 2T top (and 18 month pants...)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I just wanted to let anyone in the car seat market know that the Recaro Como is on Woot for $99.99 plus $5 shipping right now... I couldn't decide what color so I got 3 (2 to re-sell once I decide...)
(No you don't want to know what I did to get KPC to agree to that.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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It's a few dollars less than the price most people have them for right now, but a few other stores have it too. Shipping should be free but you'll pay tax. And you may get an older date of manufacture (there was a redesign so you probably would be better off with a newer one.)
Hipmonkey.com has the same price, free ship, no tax (they benefit a nonprofit) and they have high turnover so you're more likely to get a newer seat with a longer usable life. And if you want I can probably find you a discount code to get a few dollars off that price.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I never buy anything on Amazon that doesn't have free shipping. I've never paid tax on Amazon either, but I guess that could depend on where it ships from.
That is a good point about the turnover. Thanks for the other website. I need to wait a few more days until our credit card gets to the next billing cycle.
Posts: 399 | Registered: Sep 2002
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From what I can see the height limit on the 65 and 80 are the same. It doesn't seem reasonable for us to get the 80 since our kids are so skinny they will go over the height limit long before they hit 65 lbs. Now I have to check and see how tall Mooselet is again.
Posts: 399 | Registered: Sep 2002
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That is absolutely correct. The 65, 80, and XT all have the same shell and slot height. All but the chunkiest, shortest-torsoed kids will outgrow even the 65 by height slightly before weight. It's only that tiny subset (or girls who want Princess covers! or parents who want SuperCool covers) who need the 80. I mean, if you find the 80 for around the same price as the 65, might be worth it to get the pillows, but they are sold separately as well and usually come to about $20 with shipping ($17 plus shipping, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less.) And parents of kids older than newborn-ish age usually don't find they need the pillows anyway.
The most important measurement in whether kids will fit a seat, other than weight, is seated torso height (measure sitting cross-legged against a wall, make a mark at top of shoulders, measure from there to floor.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Do you know if any parts of car seats are recycleable (is that a word?)? I hate just throwing away expired car seats.
Posts: 399 | Registered: Sep 2002
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Yes, they are, but it can be hard to find a program.
Call your local recycle center and see if they accept them. If they don't, google "car seat recycling" + your city or county to see if someone has started an independent recycling program near you.
I'm lucky, our local center will accept them if we remove all fabric and foam parts.
Good luck finding one. If you can't find one make sure you smash them up really well so no one is tempted to use them. I don't know what kind of seats you have but covers don't expire and some of the covers have a rather thriving resale market if they are in good condition.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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KQ- You are most certainly "geeky" when it comes to car seats! My wife and I get that way about our kid's safety, and make sure to follow all guidlines and regulations to the "T". After all, we have to put our kids in the car, and in their seats because of how young they are, so what's so difficult about snapping them securely in according to the manual? I never understood how some parents can allow their kids to sit in their seats either unbuckled, or with loose straps. That's a potential cost that will NEVER be beat by the benefit.
Posts: 18 | Registered: Jan 2009
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Yes, I do sometimes wonder what is difficult about reading the manual and following directions. But then I read some survey saying that a large percentage of the population are functionally illiterate, and another large percentage are unable to read above about a fifth-grade level. And, well, car seat manuals can be confusing even for those of us who are geeky about it! So that gives me some perspective.
It's nice to be somewhere like Hatrack where everyone is literate and wants to do the best they can for their kids. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Just wanted to let anyone who has a child that age and is considering/using one of these seats know that we're up to part IX on the Combo Seat as Booster Review Series. I think this is valuable information for someone who is considering buying a forward-facing harness/booster combo seat.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Guess what? I'm taking the CPST certification course in May!
I know I'm going to be one of those techs who carries a seat check form and locking clip with me at all times. So if you ever need an inspection at a Hatrack gathering where I'm in attendance I'll be able to help you.
I guess this doesn't really fit this thread but I'm very excited and didn't know a better place to post it but wanted to share anyway. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Congrats kq!! I know this is something you've really been wanting to do and I'm so excited that you're getting to do it! Posts: 5879 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Oh, kq, I need some help. I tried installing the Evenflo Triumph Advance today and ran into problems. I wanted to put it in the side back seat, so that there'd be plenty of room between it and my daughter's seat, but my car has very wide seat cushions, much wider than the car seat. No matter how tight I got the seat belt, the car seat still moved several inches back and forth along the belt. I was able to get it tightly installed in the center position, but it is right up against my daughter's car seat now. Is that a problem? Are there any tips or tricks to make it fit better in the side seat? Or do I need to look into getting a different seat?
Oh, I'm installing it rear-facing. That's probably important to know. I had a different car when my daughter was rear-facing, so I didn't realize this car would be so difficult.
First of all, it's fine to have the seats touching, no safety concern, as long as they are "independently tight." To check this, you should put one seat in, check it, put the other seat in, uninstall the first seat, and check the second without any more adjustments. If the seats each move 1 inch or less independently of the other, you have a good install and they are independently tight. What is not acceptable is if either seat is interfering with the tight installation of the other, OR if a seat seems to be tight until you remove the other, and then is too loose-- that means the seat next to it is causing a "false good install," or the appearance of a good installation when it's actually a poor one. Each installation needs to be a good one independent of other seats touching it. Make sense?
If you want to try to get the other seat outboard, there are some things you can try.
-Are your buckles (the female part of the seatbelt) on long webbing stalks? If so, you can try twisting them down. You can twist them up to 3 full turns; only do as much as you need to get a solid install.
-Have you pulled the shoulder belt from the buckle side of the seat to tighten the lap portion before locking it? Sometimes it's easier to remove more slack that way.
-Sometimes also pulling the belt parallel to the belt path before locking is helpful.
If you want to e-mail me pictures of the seat in your car and/or your seatbelts/vehicle seat, I can take a look and just see if I can spot anything that way that might make it easier.
If nothing works, you have the options of 1) installing in the middle seat, if you can get independently tight installs on each seat or 2) if you cannot get independently tight installs, you should look into another seat-- I would recommend one with lockoffs for the seatbelt (the First Years True Fit, the Combi Coccoro (a new seat), and the Recaro and Britax convertible seats have this feature, as well as a few infant seats, though I realize you weren't interested in infant seats last time we talked. The True Fit fits newborns well from birth, as does the Coccoro, but the Coccoro will not allow for very extended rear-facing and won't last as long forward facing. The Recaro and Britax convertibles do not fit most newborns.)
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Thanks for the ideas. I will make sure that the middle position is independently tight, and also try again on the side. If the middle works, I don't think I want to go through the hassle of ordering another one and returning this one, although I really like the idea of those lock offs. My main concern is with my daughter putting something on top of the baby, but I've been working with her on that. Since the seat is installed in the car, she's not allowed to put anything in it for any reason. By the time he's born, it should be thoroughly ingrained in her mind.
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I've actually found it has been helpful to have an older child right next to the baby; yes, they take a little training to be gentle sometimes but it's an extra pair of hands to pick up a paci that falls and an extra pair of eyes to tell you if the baby is awake or asleep, or starting to turn blue, or something...
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Oh! I also forgot one more thing. If your seatbelt is particularly wide-set, and that's what's causing the problem, you can also try scooching the seat over toward the buckle stalk rather than centered on the seat (this is often helpful for infant seats in wide positions, but can sometimes help with a convertible as well.) You move it to the side, then try removing the slack before locking the belt.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Thanks to your suggestions, I did finally get a tight installation in the side seat. I found that I wasn't able to make it work in middle, since with the middle seat properly tightened down, the other one didn't fit anymore. It took a lot of energy, and some amazing contortions for eight months of pregnancy, but I did get the new car seat tightened down enough.
I am curious about an unrelated question, though. All of the manuals that I've read have said to use a rolled up towel or blanket if necessary to properly position a rear-facing seat. When I was searching for more information about seatbelt lock offs, I ran across a page that said it was much better to use a foam pool noodle, since it wouldn't compress as much as rolled up cloth. Are there any guidelines on what sorts of things are and are not acceptable to use for positioning?
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Some newer manuals are now saying "rolled towel or pool noodle." Most do not say blanket. Blankets are not preferred because they can compress a lot more than a towel. A flannel recieving blanket MAY be acceptable but a towel (preferably an old, thin one) is better, and a pool noodle is even better. You want as little air to be able to compress out as possible. The problem is the same one as that of using a snowsuit or bulky clothing/jackets in the car; in a crash, crash forces will cause it to compress, causing slack. In the case of a snowsuit or winter jacket, the slack is created between the child and the harness/belt, which can lead to ejection, strangulation, or head and other injuries; in the case of a big blanket under the seat, if it compresses enough, the seat will travel as if it was installed at far too upright or too reclined of an angle (depending on direction of the crash), leading to possible head, neck, and other injuries to the child as well as the possibility of over-rotating and a harder rebound. Basically, the less a child in a rear-facing seat moves in a crash (except for a small amount of controlled movement taken along with the seat, as it was designed to), the better. Seats are optimized for the correct amount of movement to protect the child when installed properly, but if they are installed at an angle outside of the manufacturer's guidelines, they can't do their jobs. Compression of a too-fluffy towel or blanket under the seat can lead to the seat moving more than the amount it was designed to.
Hence the recommendation for pool noodles to adjust the angle rather than towels, and especially not blankets. I use pool noodle on my own seats, if it's not available I use the thinnest fabric towel I can find. In a semi-emergency once I ended up using a lab coat, and actually felt better about that than about most towels I've seen used for this purpose because it was so thin and so tightly rolled, I knew compression would be minimal.
There are also "adjuster" products on the market which are basically a foam noodle, sometimes in a different shape, with a brand name on it that cost a lot more. They're safe to use, but I don't, because I live where you can always find pool noodles at the dollar store (and one noodle, cut, will generally fix the recline of about 3 seats.) But I know in some areas/climates that's not the case, and it's nice to have that option available for parents who can't find pool noodles in the middle of winter, etc.
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Oh! And I'm glad you were able to get it in tightly. May I ask which tricks you ended up using, for my future reference?
And your older daughter is in a Nautilus, right? Were you able to find out how to get a top tether anchor retrofitted so you can tether her seat?
Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Well, other than the seats being so wide, the other major problem is that they are leather, making them very slick (this was my grandmother's car; I don't think I would ever buy a car with leather seats, especially after this). The seats slope down towards the back, making the rolled towel absolutely necessary, but the towel allowed the seat to slide along the belt path. I was about ready to return it, but then I thought that something more grippy, like a pool noodle, would have enough friction to keep the seat from moving. I didn't have any pool noodles, but to test out the idea I tried a 2X2 piece of lumber, wrapped once in the towel. With that in place, I was able to tighten down the seat and it didn't slide along the belt path anymore, so I will be buying a pool noodle to replace the lumber, now that I know that my idea worked. If it weren't for the fact that it would be very dangerous if it worked its way loose in a crash, I would say that a piece of lumber would be ideal for positioning the seat, since it's not going to compress at all. Luckily, pool noodles are in season around here. I'm planning to go shopping today, so I'll let you know later if a noodle works as well as the lumber.
Thanks for reminding me about the top tether. Yes, she's in a Nautilus, and I'm happy with the way that it works (although it is HEAVY!) February was so insanely busy that I forgot all about the top tether. I need to call the Buick dealer and see what they can tell me.
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Dealers sometimes don't know. If you'd like, I can find out the part number, and whether they participate in a free installation program or how much it will cost, and whether you can do it yourself or if it needs to be dealer-installed.
The thing with a piece of lumber is that it doesn't compress ENOUGH. So sometimes it can give a false sense of good installation but as you say, in a crash it could work loose and become a projectile, or otherwise disturb the installation. Pool noodle may do it though. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Too little compression, too much compression, sheesh, things are complicated. I'm glad I have the opportunity to pick your brain, otherwise I'd be lost.
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Well, like I said, the goal is for the car seat to be able to function exactly as it was designed and tested to-- to provide optimal protection. The best way to do that is to follow manufacturer's instructions (including on what to recline with, in this case a towel or pool noodle-- which Evenflo has come out as saying is acceptable, and things like not using bulky clothing, etc.), properly use and install every time, and use to the limits of the seat rear-facing and harnessed-- but never over the limits. All things I think you have well in hand. Posts: 21182 | Registered: Sep 2004
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Disclaimer -- I have no children so I have never needed a car seat. I haven't even ferried other people's children in my car.
But I saw this in my newspaper today:
quote: A worker at the Solid Waste Management Authority pushes old car seats into a crusher Friday. After they were compacted into two blocks, the car seats weighted 1,481 pounds. The “car seat crush” was sponsored by Safe Kids, which promotes car seats for children and urges parents to discard used seats because they are a “one-child, one-use item.” At the last seat crush — in 2007 — Safe Kids crushed approximately 1,000 pounds of car seats.
I've never heard this before, that car seats are a one-child, one-use item. Is this true? Why would that be? Do car seats "mold" themselves to the body shape of a child and then another child wouldn't fit right?
Sala, just a curious person
Posts: 315 | Registered: Dec 2005
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And it will be years before you will have to buy one in any case-- at least 2 years at the least.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Especially considering I just got killer deals on two SafeGuard Child Seats.![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
She wears a size 2T top (and 18 month pants...)
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I'm glad I have the opportunity to pick your brain, otherwise I'd be lost.
