FacebookTwitter
Hatrack River Forum   
my profile login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Do body mods still hold the same stigma? (Page 1)

  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   
Author Topic: Do body mods still hold the same stigma?
Vyrus
Member
Member # 10525

 - posted      Profile for Vyrus   Email Vyrus         Edit/Delete Post 
Body mods, for those of you who don't know, is short for "body modification", a blanket term referring to any outward changing of the body through surgical or other means, ie., piercings, tattoos, scarification, gauging, etc.

However, for the purpose of this subject, I will be referring mainly to piercings [particularly facial ones] and tattoos.

I am a female still in high school, living with my father, and recently celebrated my seventeenth birthday.

I've had rebellious tendencies just like any other kid, but generally I've always been a good kid-never do drugs [referred to as "straight edge"], have generally hung out with good people, always brought home decent grades, had high morals, things like that.

I, however, have always been somewhat unconventional in dress and manner-I'm a proud pagan, listen to death metal, dress like your average "rocker" in that I like heavy makeup, corsets, boots, leather jackets, skinny jeans, etc.

I was very fortunate in that my parents always supported my expressing myself through my dress and words, and were generous in not stifling me [within reason, of course.]

So whenever I asked my father if I could get a simple, tastefully-done eyebrow piercing for my birthday I was surprised when he rejected my offer.

He said that he thought that doing that could give people the wrong impression of me and close up many doors for me. He said that he knew what that felt like, him having worn long hair and a long beard his whole life, and that he wanted the best possible opportunities for me.

He said he didn't like that the world was that way, he didn't agree with it, but he said there was plenty of chance for me to succeed and change the world from the inside later on in life. He went on to explain how I would always have the choice to do what I want when I was eighteen, but while still with him he would do his best to protect me.

I stated my displeasure by explaining that I would have the common sense to take out the piercing during work, appropriate functions etc., just like I have the common sense and general decorum to wear a nice dress or blouse and dress pants during a formal event, instead of a Children of Bodom shirt and Chucks.

He said that even when the piercings were out you could still tell that they were there, because of the holes. I said I wasn't going to gauge a two-inch hole in my eyebrow, just a small piercing, and he still refused.

[FYI, on a side note, although I do agree with my father to some extent and respect his decision, IMO it's more important to be up-front about how you choose to express yourself, because later in life I don't want to have the regret that I didn't stand up for my right to self-expression when I had the chance, even if it might meant certain things lost.]


So, my question is, coming from learned adults, does society still have the general impression that piercings and/or tattoos=degenerate druggie?

Honestly, do many of the older generation still have the notion of "those darn kids with their 8-track players, their Sega Genesis; why, in my day..."

Obviously, someone with swastikas and vile words tattooed on their forehead and fifteen piercings per *ear* might not be the best candidate, but do several small piercings, even when taken out,or easily-covered tattoos, change your perception of people?

Posts: 135 | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Starsnuffer
Member
Member # 8116

 - posted      Profile for Starsnuffer   Email Starsnuffer         Edit/Delete Post 
I am a male 19 year-old college student. Weigh my response accordingly.

In my book lip piercings are not very good.
Eyebrow piercings are generally not good, but I'd say smaller the better.
Ears are reasonable until you have a bajillion.
nose is reasonable if it's subtle (large rings/etc are off-putting to me)
belly button is fine.
Anything else (like multiple back piercings to be able to lifted by helicopter... (I've seen it on the internets..)) is just too freakin' weird.

Easily covered tattoos are reasonable, but I'm generally against them due to the permanence

Posts: 655 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
rivka
Member
Member # 4859

 - posted      Profile for rivka   Email rivka         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Vyrus:
So, my question is, coming from learned adults, does society still have the general impression that piercings and/or tattoos=degenerate druggie?

Society is not a homogeneous mass. But yes, many do.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Itsame
Member
Member # 9712

 - posted      Profile for Itsame           Edit/Delete Post 
It's not just older generations who have a stigma about it; I'm only 19 and I harbor negative views about "body mods". It probably doesn't help that my brother decided to get a few tattoos and piercings: he dropped out of college, works at a gas station, and smokes marijuana all day.

Edit: "[FYI, on a side note, although I do agree with my father to some extent and respect his decision, IMO it's more important to be up-front about how you choose to express yourself, because later in life I don't want to have the regret that I didn't stand up for my right to self-expression when I had the chance, even if it might meant certain things lost.]"

I think it should be noted that there's a difference between rebelling because you think that your cause is right, and rebelling for its own sake.

Posts: 2705 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Vyrus
Member
Member # 10525

 - posted      Profile for Vyrus   Email Vyrus         Edit/Delete Post 
Starsnuffer-Everyone has a general opinion on what they thing looks good. Do you think that these are merely aesthetically pleasing, or are they ones that you find acceptable?

I've personally always subscribed that anyone can get anything done, so long as they don't go overboard in number, it's a safe piercing done by a trained professional and properly taken care of, and it's looks good with their face. [Except septums-I've only ever seen two people it looked good on, and they were both male.]

Rivka-I'm glad society is not a homogeneous mass. That would make both travel and mating rather awkward, although I suppose both would be unnecessary in such a society.

Do you find, however, that such a thing could inhibit somebody?

Edit: Jon Hecht: Although I try to keep a control on my wilder teenage instincts, I feel that this is about more than just piercings, personally. Although many would argue that, yes, for most, it's just about piercings.

Posts: 135 | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Itsame
Member
Member # 9712

 - posted      Profile for Itsame           Edit/Delete Post 
I'm not saying that it's just about piercings; what I am saying is that this is where these negative stereotypes come from, and (regardless of whether or not you are party to them) they exist.
Posts: 2705 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lanfear
Member
Member # 7776

 - posted      Profile for Lanfear   Email Lanfear         Edit/Delete Post 
" it's more important to be up-front about how you choose to express yourself, because later in life I don't want to have the regret that I didn't stand up for my right to self-expression when I had the chance,"

So, your "expressing" yourself, by getting body piercings just like every other "different" punkgoth rocker? Your conforming no matter which way you look at it.

I don't consider that expression. Stupidity perhaps. Not expression.

Posts: 332 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Itsame
Member
Member # 9712

 - posted      Profile for Itsame           Edit/Delete Post 
Lanfear, perhaps that is a bit harsh, not to mention counterproductive.

Vyrus, it seems that you're searching for validation, not opinions.

Posts: 2705 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Goody Scrivener
Member
Member # 6742

 - posted      Profile for Goody Scrivener   Email Goody Scrivener         Edit/Delete Post 
I can't speak for society as a whole. Personally, I would have a negative initial reaction to seeing piercings beyond one or two ear holes. Stretched ears, septums, nose, tongue... these all actively and strongly gross me out. Eyebrows and lips create a less severe reaction but I still react negatively. I'm less affected by tattoos and hair coloring. I could probably be friends with someone who had mods if I was given enough time to adjust my own thinking, but I definitely could not date someone with "abnormal" piercings.

I can tell you that my last several employers have rejected potential applicants based on physical appearance alone. Also by the way an applicant speaks, but that's not relevant to the discussion at hand.

And I'm likely among the "older generation" in your eyes as my eldest daughter is almost your age.

Posts: 4515 | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JennaDean
Member
Member # 8816

 - posted      Profile for JennaDean   Email JennaDean         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm a stuffy adult, so probably just the demographic you're looking for. And I will admit that when I see anything more than a couple of ear piercings, I look upon that person with ... reservations. It gives me the impression that they're trying to get attention, possibly by shocking people; and I wonder why they would want to shock people. I try to leave my mind open that they might be perfectly nice and respectable people; but yes, as far as first impressions go, facial piercings and body modifications cause me to wonder what other extreme stuff they like to do.

That said, I have one sister with a pierced navel and a couple tattoos, and one sister with a pierced tongue. I can get over my first impressions. But in situations where first impressions are all you get - yes, they're going to be affected by body modifications, and probably not in a good way.

Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
DDDaysh
Member
Member # 9499

 - posted      Profile for DDDaysh   Email DDDaysh         Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know that all that many people in society feel that way privately, but piercings and tattoos still have a major impact on public life and career. Even if a manager or business owner might feel that tattoos or piercings are reasonable and do not reflect irresponsibility, he/she may not employ someone with them for fear that his/her customers do not feel the same. Some school districts and many companies have dress codes (for teachers, staff, & employees) that expressly forbid any visible tattoos or piercings.

Thus, I believe your father is right in denying this request. You may feel that this self expression is worth the opportunities it may cost you, but at 17 you don't really have the perspective to understand those costs. I was a bit of an idealistic young rebel myself, though my rebellion took a slightly different form. In the end, I've come to find that my rebellion cost me more than it was worth in many ways.

But, as your dad says - you'll be 18 soon, and can decide for yourself. At least you're being reasonable, and often times small piercing holes will heal up and be virtually unnoticeable if you later realize that particular form of self expression is closing a few too many doors. I'm glad you're not considering tattooing "rebel for life" across your forehead - that might justify more serious intervention!

Posts: 1321 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TomDavidson
Member
Member # 124

 - posted      Profile for TomDavidson   Email TomDavidson         Edit/Delete Post 
Eyebrow piercings won't be a problem for you, because you can take them out for job interviews. (Note: wearing them to a job interview would be a mistake.) What you don't want to do is something that you can't remove.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Vyrus
Member
Member # 10525

 - posted      Profile for Vyrus   Email Vyrus         Edit/Delete Post 
JonHecht-Okay, I understand what you're saying now, and I agree. It's horrible.

Lanfear-there's nothing I can possibly do in my life that hasn't been done or said before.

So, yes, looking at conformity that way, you're right.

I don't choose to do things because other people have. I choose to do things because that's what I enjoy.

I choose to get piercings because I appreciate the way that they look. I choose to wear the clothing I do because I like the way that it fits, that it looks. I listen to my music because I like the way that it sounds. That's the same reason I read the books I do, the same reason that you read the books that you do.

I am undoubtedly not the first person to dress the way that I do, but I do not, however, do things exactly the way that every other stereotypical child my age does.

Yes, it's natural to be influenced by friends, by family, people you admire. That's human nature. [Emulation is the highest form of flattery, after all.] However, there is a large difference between choosing to be similar to somebody because you enjoy that particular trait, and seeking to be a perfect reflection of them.

I refuse to believe that I'm a carbon copy of everyone else that dresses "punkgoth".

When you read a book that other people like, are you attempting to imitate them for imitation's sake?

You, good sir [or ma'dame] have called me a poser, have insinuated that I do things merely for social acceptance, because I feel the need to live up to other people's standards, or to rebel to tell other people to "shoot those standards to hell."

Neither of these things are true.

I was only seeking to ask a general question from people whose opinions I understand to be learned, and I did not set out to put anyone out, and if I did so, I apologize.

But I do feel you are wrong in this situation.

Posts: 135 | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Vyrus
Member
Member # 10525

 - posted      Profile for Vyrus   Email Vyrus         Edit/Delete Post 
Thank you all for your opinions.

I try to remind myself that I won't be seventeen forever, and that what's important to me now may not be as important in twenty years.

I also know to take things out before I go to a job interview.

Honestly, if I saw someone with an unnecessary amount of facial tattoos, I'd find it someone offputting as well.

http://portent.org/images/scarytattoo.jpg

Yeah, some of the more extreme mods freak me out. [gauging and lip discs make me cringe XO.]

Posts: 135 | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Genuine
Member
Member # 11446

 - posted      Profile for The Genuine           Edit/Delete Post 
Body mods are exciting in the short term, but are not worth it in the long term.

That's what I'd tell my daughter. Don't do it.

Posts: 158 | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
scifibum
Member
Member # 7625

 - posted      Profile for scifibum   Email scifibum         Edit/Delete Post 
Honestly, my impression from the people I know and interact with in person is that body modification isn't some form of pure self expression, but rather a form of interaction with other people.

It's a form of saying to people with similar piercings, we're alike.

It's a form of saying to old/stuffy people, I don't like your rules, man.

Emphasis on the latter, honestly. In other words, I don't think most people who choose multiple body piercings or tattoos or whatever would be attracted to those forms of expression if they weren't offensive to some ideologically-opposed segment of the population.

But to be honest, hair style and color can be as jarring and as opportunity-limiting as an eyebrow piercing, easily. And it's marginally harder to change or hide for a brief period of time like going to a job interview.

I would not worry too much about looking back later with regret on unexploited opportunities for self expression, when those opportunities amounted to superficial decoration. What meaning does an eyebrow piercing have, after all? What can you say with a ring in your forehead that you can't say more meaningfully in art, or in your choice of career? Only those things, I suspect, that render the question of stigma moot.

Don't bother fighting your dad on this. A year is not long to wait for anything. In a year you'll at least know whether your current desire will have proved to be fleeting.

Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Liz B
Member
Member # 8238

 - posted      Profile for Liz B   Email Liz B         Edit/Delete Post 
What a great dad. Not for saying no--for explaining in such detail why he's saying no. He's showing a lot of respect for you--he sounds like a wonderful person.

When you turn 18 (which will happen really quickly), don't do anything irreversible or un-cover-upable.

Oh, and as a stodgy older person: Facial piercings and body tattoos don't really say to me that someone is unreliable--just that they're, well, young.

Posts: 834 | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Teshi
Member
Member # 5024

 - posted      Profile for Teshi   Email Teshi         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm more likely to be put off by your heavy makeup than a tasteful eyebrow piercing alone.

And by "put off" I mean not judging your intellectual capabilities or your propensity towards doing drugs. I mean being highly distracted by it and wondering where your face has gone and why you look bizarre.

All in all, I believe in being presented nicely and expressing yourself by what you do, rather than in how bizarre you look.

Posts: 8473 | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post 
I don't know if piercings and tattoos really mean "degenerate druggie," especially tattoos. I think excessive piercings, especially less common ones are generally associated with goth culture, which I also think by extension can be ridiculed amongst OTHER young people as emo.

I'm in my mid 20's, so, maybe I grew up in the culture more but I don't make a whole lot of assumptions about people with piercings. I might be a little taken aback sometimes, and personally I think most piercings are very unattractive, but I'm not going to prejudge you and not talk to you because of it. That opinion might be different if I was an employer, not because I'd assume you're a degenerate, but because I think it's unprofessional.

I don't think tattoos are a problem so long as they aren't freakishly excessive, and as far as your job goes, so long as they are in a place that can be hidden when you're in a professional environment. Several of my friends either have them, or are soon getting them, and all of them are college graduates, none of whom do drugs. Tattoos cut across the social strata, and lots of different kinds of people have tattoos in various shapes and sizes for various reasons. I might get one some day, but it's not a high priority.

Belly button piercings and ear piercings are about the only kinds I personally find visually appealing. Everything else I'm not a fan of, aesthetically.

Lanfear -

I think that's pretty over the top. In that respect, almost anything you do that puts you into some sort of social stereotype isn't you expressing yourself, it's you conforming. I think that's both condescending and wrong. First off, I don't think that expression and conformity are mutually exclusive. If she chooses to act in a way that results in society and people like you placing her into a defined group, even if she is intentionally emulating them, she's still expressing herself. Just because several people decide to express themselves together and in similar ways doesn't negate the expression itself.

scifibum -

quote:
Honestly, my impression from the people I know and interact with in person is that body modification isn't some form of pure self expression, but rather a form of interaction with other people.
I agree and disagree with you. I think it's a form of self-expression AND a form of interaction with other people. It's not necessarily "hey let's have tattoos together" and it's not sticking it to the man. I think it could easily be someone deciding to say "this is important to me and I want others to know it." Or it could just as easily be "this is important to me NOW and I want people to see it," which is subtly different but important I think.

At the end of the day though, I'd reiterate what Tom said about not getting piercings that can't be removed, or that can't be removed without noticeable marks leftover. Eventually you'll have to look professional, and you should weigh your current desires against the possibility that you might change your mind in the future. Find a balance.

Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Starsnuffer
Member
Member # 8116

 - posted      Profile for Starsnuffer   Email Starsnuffer         Edit/Delete Post 
What I think looks good, broadly: ear piercing, nose(not septum) (if it's small/discrete), belly button piercing.

I think what it boils down to is not having piercings is obviously ok, and having piercings is at least potentially not ok. I'd say the less you do to yourself the better, because hey, who can argue with what is standard.

Posts: 655 | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
SoaPiNuReYe
Member
Member # 9144

 - posted      Profile for SoaPiNuReYe           Edit/Delete Post 
The whole eyebrow-piercing, ear-gauging thing is just a fad thats gonna blow over in a couple of years. I'm pretty sure your dad wants to make sure that you won't get something you'll be embarassed of a few years later. You're a rocker now, but who knows what you'll be ten years from now. You're seventeen and you've got a lot of your life to live up. I'm your age too, and I'm putting those types of things off until I'm dead positive I want them, and I may never be.
Posts: 1158 | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mucus
Member
Member # 9735

 - posted      Profile for Mucus           Edit/Delete Post 
( Damnit, not a Bioshock thread ... )
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Vyrus
Member
Member # 10525

 - posted      Profile for Vyrus   Email Vyrus         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Liz B:
What a great dad. Not for saying no--for explaining in such detail why he's saying no. He's showing a lot of respect for you--he sounds like a wonderful person.

[Big Grin] Thank you, I've always felt very fortunate to have such a good father, and I hope to be as accepting and wise and caring if I ever have children one day. My sister is like that with her child-she's an occasional hatracker; if I could remember her name, I'd post it [it's been a while since she's been on, however.]

I've gone into great detail mentally about what tattoos and/or piercings I plan to have-all cover-up able, except for a tattoo on my forearm, that is largely writing and tastefully done, so there should be little problems--just wear long sleeves for a while.

I do, indeed, believe that actions speak far louder than image, but I nonetheless feel strongly for giving off the visual aesthetic that you feel most encapsulates you, whether that be a certain hair color, a certain religious symbol [such as a cross], or, even, piercings or tattoos. [although tattoos are often much more expressive than piercings as far as meaning goes, unless that piercing has obvious religious, philosophical, or political significance, such as a gay person getting an ear piercing to reflect that.]

Lyrhawn-I think your synopsis of bodymods as a form of self-expression is as close to my own as can be approximated, as you spake it well.

I meant "degenerate druggie" in a more loose, metaphorical sense to represent unpleasant things in people's minds-whatever thoughts they may have.

I do in some part respect the goth subculture, although I am not a dedicated "goth".

It upsets me that most people don't realize that emo is a type of music, originally evolving from emotic hardcore, a subgenre of punk. It does not strictly exist in terms of a subculture, but it does have many adherents.

I don't particularly appreciate stereotypes, or classifications placed on people, but there is nothing I can do about what labels people will place on me, as all people, especially youths, are wont to place things into known classifications and attribute particular behaviors to those classifications. It helps us make sense of the world-it's biological. For instance, if you saw an alligator, you would more than likely be wary of that gator because all your mental signals are telling you "That gator is dangerous and could cause me great pain or even death", and not decide to try and make friends with that alligator on the premise that "Just because some alligators do it, doesn't necessarily mean this one does it."

Obviously, a nose ring might not equate these same feelings, but nonetheless you respond with what you are culturally conditioned to expect.

SoaPiNuReYe-Yes, fads come and go. While I may indeed be completely different in ten years, such a thing does not always happen, as it did not happen with my father or my older sister. And, I don't think I should completely forget who I am now for who I may *possibly* be in a couple of years, although your words of warning are wisely placed.

Edit: Sorry for the misconception, Mucus. *Hands Mucus a cookie.*

Is that better?

Okay, that cookie will be $2.50

Posts: 135 | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
rivka
Member
Member # 4859

 - posted      Profile for rivka   Email rivka         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Vyrus:
there is nothing I can do about what labels people will place on me

Not entirely true. You can encourage or discourage certain impressions/labels by how you dress, amount/type of makeup, and such things as piercings and tattoos.

Was that not the point of this thread to begin with?

Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JennaDean
Member
Member # 8816

 - posted      Profile for JennaDean   Email JennaDean         Edit/Delete Post 
I agree with rivka. I try to teach my kids simultaneously a) not to judge people by their appearance and b) that people WILL judge them by their appearance and they should keep that in mind when they decide how they want to present themselves. All the labels may not be pleasant, but if you know that a certain look will garner a certain label and you don't want people to think that of you, then you can choose not to look that way.
Posts: 1522 | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Vyrus
Member
Member # 10525

 - posted      Profile for Vyrus   Email Vyrus         Edit/Delete Post 
Yes, I can change my visual aesthetic to get people to change their opinions of me, I fully agree.

But that all stems from how much I'm willing to change how I look; which at this point, is not much.

And, while I do care what people think of me insofar as how it may affect my ability to one day succeed in the business world, I don't particularly care what a few close-minded people's first impressions are of me. Yes, we all seek to be socially accepted, but I tend to find the ones that accept me for who I am is much better than having a large number of people for whom I have to compromise myself.

I've managed to stay away from the far-left--nothing too far out there.

Unconventional, certainly, but children do not scream and run in terror in my wake, and, as far as I know, I have as of yet to have a clergymen attempt to perform an exorcism on me.

Like you said, it's making a decision upon how I wish to present myself.

I like the straightforwardness of your replies. [Big Grin]

Posts: 135 | Registered: Jun 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
rivka
Member
Member # 4859

 - posted      Profile for rivka   Email rivka         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Vyrus:
But that all stems from how much I'm willing to change how I look; which at this point, is not much.

That's ok. You won't be 17 forever.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Shanna
Member
Member # 7900

 - posted      Profile for Shanna   Email Shanna         Edit/Delete Post 
Things have gotten better for people with body mods but they're not necessarily acceptable.

My concern is your age. I'm not picking on you. I'm only 23 years old so I get it. But you're at a difficult age. Maybe you'll get lucky and get a job where you can wear all your piercings and tattoos. Or maybe you'll get stuck in a conservative office. Piercings aren't much fun when you spend most of your time at a job where you can't wear it.

I've started considering some visible tattoos (possible the beginnings of a sleeve) but as much as I want to go out and get it tomorrow, I have to be mature and wait. Right now with this economy, I have to be thankful for my job and one of the rules is no visible tattoos. I could wear long sleeves everyday in Louisiana heat and never even be able to push them up, but right now I can wait to get more tattoos.

That's part of what it means to grow up...knowing when to wait.

Posts: 1733 | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Xann.
Member
Member # 11482

 - posted      Profile for Xann.   Email Xann.         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Vyrus:
if I could get a simple, tastefully-done eyebrow piercing for my

I found your problem, there is no such thing as a tastefully-done eyebrow piercing. I don't care if someone has facial piercings, but i have alot of respect for those who can be comfortable without having to change themselves. Watching some of the people around me who are trying to "make a point" by dyeing thier hair and getting more peircings than the next are just annoying. Some people are going to extremes that are just silly (I know a girl whos clevage piercing got infected and was green and pussing)

Sorry, got on a bit of a rant, I'm sixteen by the way, the person i mentioned is to. By all means get a eye brow piercing if you want, but don't feel like you have to get any more. Just buy a flesh cap for any professional setting.


there's nothing I can possibly do in my life that hasn't been done or said before.

Never think that, everything you ever done has never been done like your doing it.

Posts: 549 | Registered: Feb 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by rivka:
Not entirely true. You can encourage or discourage certain impressions/labels by how you dress, amount/type of makeup, and such things as piercings and tattoos.

I think she may have meant more that she has no control over the content of the stereotypes that her appearance choices convey.

But regardless I agree with you. Every now and then we have a discussion on Hatrack about free speech whenever someone says something and gets punished for it. Free speech means you get to say pretty much anything you want and the law will allow it, but society might not respond the same way. That rule is pretty much identical to freedom of expression.

Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MightyCow
Member
Member # 9253

 - posted      Profile for MightyCow           Edit/Delete Post 
I don't have a negative impression of a person with body mods, but I do tend to think that many of the more extreme body mods are unattractive.

Some body mods can look really good, depending on the modification and the person. Many look disfiguring, or make the person look less attractive, which I think is sometimes the point.

I don't think it makes someone a bad person, or a druggie, or a dropout to have body modification. I do think that some modifications may indicate something strongly about a person's mental and emotional state, just like the way someone dresses or how they speak tells us about them.

Posts: 3950 | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
advice for robots
Member
Member # 2544

 - posted      Profile for advice for robots           Edit/Delete Post 
I think piercings just look painful. Especially eyebrow piercings. I see them and I want to cringe. Ouch! Having a hole there is a wound in a sensitive spot, not a fashion statement!

I have a harder time taking people with facial piercings seriously. As in they're forcing me to consider them at face value, along with any other attributes. When they're revealed to be warm, friendly people underneath all the metal, wonderful, but the piercings are incredibly difficult to ignore.

However, if there was a choice between non-disfiguring piercings and facial or other visible tattoos, I would choose the piercings. They can eventually be removed and healed when whatever need that inspired them is past; tattoos are pretty much permanent disfigurements once the impulse that put them there is gone. And tattoos look terrible on old people, IMO. [Smile]

Posts: 5957 | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
neo-dragon
Member
Member # 7168

 - posted      Profile for neo-dragon           Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Vyrus:


[FYI, on a side note, although I do agree with my father to some extent and respect his decision, IMO it's more important to be up-front about how you choose to express yourself, because later in life I don't want to have the regret that I didn't stand up for my right to self-expression when I had the chance, even if it might meant certain things lost.

Wow, that's so backwards sounding. I've never met an older person who said, "boy, I sure regret not getting a tattoo or piercing when I was younger". If there are any regrets one way or the other about it, usually it's just the opposite.

I think that by the time most people reach late adulthood they realize that they express (and always have expressed) their individuality through their actions.

I personally have nothing against "body mods" that aren't too outrageous, but there are two things to keep in mind. First, depending on the type of workplace you end up in certain things might not be regarded as appropriate. Second, doing anything drastic and permanent in your teens probably isn't a great idea, because the things that appeal to you are probably going to change a lot in the next 5-10 years and beyond. Maybe wait a few years until your brain is fully developed . [Wink]

(that last part wasn't meant to be insulting in any way)

Posts: 1569 | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Tante Shvester
Member
Member # 8202

 - posted      Profile for Tante Shvester   Email Tante Shvester         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm the mother of a 17 year old, and I'm not surprised that your father refused to give you the gift of a piercing for your birthday. I wouldn't get one for my kid, either, no matter how much he begged, no matter how important it was to him.

If he wants it that badly, then he'd just have to fund it himself.

Kind of like porn. I'm not delighted with the thought of my kid looking at smutty magazines, but if he wants to do so, there is little that I'm going to be able to do to stop it. But he shouldn't expect me to go and buy it for him.


Be rebellious on your own dime, sweetie. Otherwise it hardly counts as rebellion, and where's the fun there?

Posts: 10397 | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Loren
Member
Member # 9539

 - posted      Profile for Loren   Email Loren         Edit/Delete Post 
I'm in grad school at a university with an undergraduate student body that tends to be affluent and perhaps slightly more conservative than other universities'. Body mods are consequently fairly uncommon and, when found, usually pretty understated.

That said, piercings and tattoos are pretty common among my fellow grad students. My guess is that that sort of thing is a little more common in leftist academic circles like mine. [Wink]

I don't have any tattoos because I know that I'm a changeable person. It would drive me nuts to have something that permanent on/in me.

Posts: 100 | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
theamazeeaz
Member
Member # 6970

 - posted      Profile for theamazeeaz   Email theamazeeaz         Edit/Delete Post 
I've seen nose studs done very tastefully, though I knew someone who gave hers up within a year because it was completely inappropriate for her job. She had a scab for a while, but I can't see it in any of her facebook photos (which are far off and low res), so whether it's still there is inconclusive. I don't know enough about eyebrow scabs. I know enough tiny nose stud people that it generates less of a semi-conscious prejudice for me.

Eyebrow piercings I'm more used to than most other piercings, but so many of them make people squirm. I don't think a lot of people are beyond the eyebrow thing yet.

I have a friend with dreadlocks (they're several years old), an eyebrow piercing, and giant earring holes. He's 24. He talked about getting a lot of glares and prejudice from the other people who were aiming to work in a counseling program to tell kids not to do drugs and drink. He is, as you are, completely straight-edge, has not had a drop of alcohol in his life. Yet, he saw a lot of subconscious reactions from the people in his program. He was pretty angry about that because he suspected he was the cleanest guy in the program.

Posts: 1757 | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kwea
Member
Member # 2199

 - posted      Profile for Kwea   Email Kwea         Edit/Delete Post 
I depends. I know from being a hiring manager that I couldn't, and wouldn't have if I could have, hire people with obvious tattoos or piercings. The fact of the matter is that I was selling upscale jewelry, and most people don't view people whith those types of body mods as trustworthy or dependable.

I know that there are a lot of people who have mods who ARE dependable, honest, and hardworking, but selling is about perception......perception gets people in the door. I know that it is hard to get a lot of jobs with those mods, and that limits your choices, which isn't a good thing.

Also, in the health profession there are many peircings that simply safe arond other people. I am not saying tongue pericings make you drool like a feind, but tehy DO increase the droplets coming out of your mouth even if you are not aware of it, and that can place a patient in danger, making you a vector for infection and/or the spread of disease.

And some are more likely to become infected, and cost people days off of work. Don't tell me it doesn't happen, I can't tell you how many people I have seen with lip, ear or nose piercings who have MAJOR issues with them.


I have no issue with them personally, but most of the time it isn't a good ting to put them where everyone knows you have them.

Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Rabbit
Member
Member # 671

 - posted      Profile for The Rabbit   Email The Rabbit         Edit/Delete Post 
Before getting a facial piecing, its worth considering how they will affect different people and whether or not that's the affect you want. Its not just about stereotypes. A piercing draw attention to a particular feature and not necessarily in a favorable way.

For example, my husband is really squeamish about eyes. He has a hard time looking people in the eye who have eyebrow rings for that reason. I have a similar issue with lip rings and tongue rings. I know someone who got a lip ring caught on something and ripped open his lip. When I'm talking to someone with a iip ring or a tongue it brings really awful images to mind. When I'm talking to someone with a nose ring, I tend to end up thinking about whether or not it gets in the way when they need to blow their nose. I've discussed it with enough people to know that I'm not alone in this.

I'm not suggesting that these are necessarily reasons not to get a facial piercing. But you really should recognize that some people will respond this way and ask yourself if you really want to do something that makes a lot of people think about boogers or gruesome accidents when they are talking to you.

[ January 26, 2009, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: The Rabbit ]

Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Corwin
Member
Member # 5705

 - posted      Profile for Corwin           Edit/Delete Post 
That reminds me that where I practiced Karate we couldn't have any jewelry/piercings/watches on ourselves during the training session. Imagine a piercing getting caught by a punch or a kick... o_O Not that anyone had piercings anyway.
Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kwea
Member
Member # 2199

 - posted      Profile for Kwea   Email Kwea         Edit/Delete Post 
yep....it happens all the time, and people end up scarred because they thought " it wouldn't happen to ME". [Big Grin]
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Rabbit
Member
Member # 671

 - posted      Profile for The Rabbit   Email The Rabbit         Edit/Delete Post 
And even if it doesn't happen to you, people will think about it when they talk to you.

It seems strange to do something deliberately to your face that will trigger a lot of people to think about boogers when they're talking to you. If that's what you want, then go ahead and get a nose ring but its silly to think that's just their problem and you can't do anything about it. Unless your parents had your face pierced while you were a baby, there is something you can do about, don't get a facial piercing.

Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Corwin
Member
Member # 5705

 - posted      Profile for Corwin           Edit/Delete Post 
Our teacher reminded us frequently to remove watches, rings, etc. and after a couple of years spent there most of us would advise others to take them off if we saw them. Thankfully, there were no accidents in the four years I was there.
Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Kwea
Member
Member # 2199

 - posted      Profile for Kwea   Email Kwea         Edit/Delete Post 
I saw a lot of infected ones as a medic/EMT 15 years ago...I imagine it's worse now
Posts: 15082 | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Corwin
Member
Member # 5705

 - posted      Profile for Corwin           Edit/Delete Post 
Nothing says "I wove you" like an infected tongue piercing. [Big Grin]
Posts: 4519 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dabbler
Member
Member # 6443

 - posted      Profile for dabbler   Email dabbler         Edit/Delete Post 
To state some biases upfront, I'm in my late 20s, a psychiatry resident, and I used to frequent goth clubs.

I don't know how long you can take out an eyebrow piercing early on, or later on. I know that many workplaces won't let you wear it on the job. Some places are more forgiving of course. Personally I try not to have many preconceived notions before I meet someone. Part of my training. I feel that the more permanent and more obvious the body mod, the more you have to consider how much it limits your future options. Also consider how much flack you're willing to endure. I don't consider a single piercing particularly obvious or permanent in the spectrum of body mods.

Some body mods backfire, of course. I'm sure you're a careful person and you're much less likely to get an infection or bad scarring than another. You also know the possibilities going into it. People make decisions to do optional things all day long that have possible negative consequences. It's a part of life.

I'd like to 2nd the earlier comment about your dad. It sounds like you two have a very respectful relationship in both directions and that's pretty awesome. I wish more families worked like yours seems to.

Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rappin' Ronnie Reagan
Member
Member # 5626

 - posted      Profile for Rappin' Ronnie Reagan   Email Rappin' Ronnie Reagan         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by The Rabbit:
And even if it doesn't happen to you, people will think about it when they talk to you.

It seems strange to do something deliberately to your face that will trigger a lot of people to think about boogers when they're talking to you. If that's what you want, then go ahead and get a nose ring but its silly to think that's just their problem and you can't do anything about it. Unless your parents had your face pierced while you were a baby, there is something you can do about, don't get a facial piercing.

This really reminds me of the modesty discussion.

If all you can think about when talking to someone with a piercing is the piercing, then maybe you should work on changing that.

Posts: 1658 | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MattP
Member
Member # 10495

 - posted      Profile for MattP   Email MattP         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
If all you can think about when talking to someone with a piercing is the piercing, then maybe you should work on changing that.
That's all well and good until the person who "should work on changing that." is a prospective employer or client, police officer, judge, jury, review board, admissions board etc.

For your own interest, you may need to avoid changes to your appearance which are known to make a sizable portion of the population uncomfortable, regardless of whether those people should feel uncomfortable.

[ January 26, 2009, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: MattP ]

Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
katharina
Member
Member # 827

 - posted      Profile for katharina   Email katharina         Edit/Delete Post 
Consider it in cost/benefit terms.

If you get an unusual face piercing, you get all the things out of it that you wish to. You also create strikes against you in the minds of people whom you might want something from. The more likely you are to want something from them, the greater the probability that your choice in appearance is a liability.

If you want the benefits of a more piercing more than you whatever other people can get for you (jobs, mostly), then go for it.

However, in my mind, you can't then complain about not getting jobs, etc. You already decided that you wanted the piercing more.

Posts: 26077 | Registered: Mar 2000  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lyrhawn
Member
Member # 7039

 - posted      Profile for Lyrhawn   Email Lyrhawn         Edit/Delete Post 
I read something awhile back about recent advances in tattoo ink. Currently to get a tattoo removed I think you basically have to burn it off with multiple laser treatments. A guy at work who is trying to get a better job than a restaurant worker is having his initials removed from his neck in a very long and painful process.

But a new type of ink is becoming standard in the industry that is designed to be removeable. I'm not sure entirely how it works, but the ink reacts to a laser differently and will absorb into the skin and leave no lasting marks behind. If I was on the fence between getting and not getting, that would remove the issue of permanance, which I think is the biggest sticking point to a lot of people.

Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sarcasticmuppet
Member
Member # 5035

 - posted      Profile for sarcasticmuppet   Email sarcasticmuppet         Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Originally posted by Rappin' Ronnie Reagan:
This really reminds me of the modesty discussion.

If all you can think about when talking to someone with a piercing is the piercing, then maybe you should work on changing that.

When "someone" is a person with a facial piercing, and "you" is someone interviewing for a job "someone" wants, I don't think they "have" to do anything. When you're conducting interviews and several, possibly even dozens of applicants are vying for the same job, a bad first impression can kill your chances. In non-work related public situations, human beings tend to be polite and not stare or try think that it's a big deal, but those situations don't seem to be what very many in this thread is referring to. Vyrus's father specifically referred to missed opportunities (academic, employment, etc) that would come with a facial piercing. Wrong or right, whoever has the power to open doors or give out opportunities has the power to dictate what they want in a candidate. If what they want is someone without stigmatized body mods, that's their prerogative. If it's wrong, then YOU build a successful business/university where you hire/admit whoever you want, but saying that *they* should just change their biases is silly and a little bit naive.

I remember hearing when I was about 17 that someone got an eyebrow piercing and ended up with a permanent facial twitch. Probably an urban legend, but I can't help thinking about it whenever someone talks about it.

Posts: 4089 | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | Hatrack River Home Page

Copyright © 2008 Hatrack River Enterprises Inc. All rights reserved.
Reproduction in whole or in part without permission is prohibited.


Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2