posted
I recently was raging at the injustice of the world, wherein Terminator is denied a Season 3, while Smallville, which should have ended 3 years ago, is getting a season NINE. But eventually I decided to go ahead and watch the finale (I only watched a few episodes this season before deciding to just glance at the cliff notes from time to time) to see how they could possibly justify this thing continuing.
I was actually impressed. It's not great television, but it's way better than Smallville had been in recent times. From what I gather Season 8 had a lot of the same things that have been ruining smallville (way too much soap opera-ness, way too much Lana, random stupid filler episodes with ridiculous plots). But despite this, the episodes that ARE good are finally moving forward in a good way. It's not Smallville anymore, it's early superman (he doesn't wear the cape yet and doesn't let anyone see his face but has begun to form the Superman identity).
The finale in particular had little-to-no soap opera-ness (what stuff is there serves a purpose), had action that really drove the characters forward and finally started addressing some apparent continuity issues.
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SPOILERS
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Things I liked:
Jimmy Olsen being 10 years older than he should be is addressed by him actually being Howard James Olsen, apparently the older brother or cousin or something of the actual Jimmy Olsen. I'm not sure who would name two children Jimmy in the same timeframe. It's a little silly, but a neat surprise.
Clark's realization of "Oh, humans can be mean." I know they'll eventually reverse this back to his usual optimistic self but it's an appropriate character arc.
Chloe is Watchtower. All along I've been expecting Chloe to die tragically. Instead it looks like they're creating a role for her in the actual DC universe that somehow manages not to contradict anything (at least not unreasonably). My understanding is that previously, Watchtower wasn't an actual character, just a place. Making her the person who originally ran that place and formed the Justice League is pretty cool. Chloe's always been my favorite character, even when she started getting shoehorned into lame subplots and given ridiculous lines that didn't make sense. I'm glad she finally got to do something really cool and appropriate for the character.
Things I didn't like: Doomsday looked dumb, but I can't really fault them for that.
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Chloe has always been my favorite character, too. Clark Kent is a fool not to choose her over Lana or Lois. Over and over she has proven herself to be a true friend, unswerving and unselfish in her love, absolutely faithful in keeping his secrets. I think Allison Mack is a better actress, too.
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I've been watching it from the beginning. There was one point where I stopped watching for half a season (though I went back and picked those up eventually) because of the stupid teen angst sex stuff.
I think it's interesting to see how they're doing things. The chemistry between Clark and Chloe is so much better and believable than that between him and Lana or him and Lois, and there was a time when I thought Chloe was going to turn out to be Lois, but I'm okay with the way things are going now. Even Lois is getting a little more tolerable, and the little Lana that we had this season was actually okay, I thought. So long as she didn't stay around.
So the big giant guy who came out of the crystal is Zod? Haven't they overdone Zod a bit? And when exactly did Lois go with the Legion ring? Forward? Backward? I can't imagine them ever doing anything set 1000 years in the future, just because it'd be too expensive.
What I'd like is for the show to move away from just Clark and move more towards a nascent Justice League. Oliver is really filling the niche that would be filled by Batman if WB would have allowed it. Canary and Impulse are good, and Cyborg too, if they ever bring him back. Clark is seriously my least favorite person on the show (even worse than Lana, in my opinion). I would have killed him off and given his powers to Chloe a long time ago had it been up to me.
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quote:Originally posted by Lisa: I can't imagine them ever doing anything set 1000 years in the future, just because it'd be too expensive.
Oh, please. All they need is to add a lot of chrome to the set, have everyone in jumpsuits, and mention "By the way, this is the 31st Century" a lot, and we're there. Posts: 6689 | Registered: Jan 2005
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My husband's cousin has a son and daughter named two of our favorite names for our own children. We might name a son the boy's name anyway, but it would probably be too much to then name a future daughter the girl's name. I guess we see them too often for that not to be a little weird. Posts: 2762 | Registered: Sep 1999
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I didn't watch the last few episodes because CW's website sucks and watching old episodes there just doesn't seem to work. I can't watch the show live because it's at 7:00 and that's when I'm putting my kids to bed. So, after trying and failing to find a way to watch them on the web, I just read the wiki summary of them. Actually, I think it was better than watching a live episode. I don't have to deal with the acting.
Besides, I don't really enjoy watching the show anymore. I'm really just curious enough about how they're going to end this thing that I peak in every once in a while to see what's going on.
I actually thought the Jimmy thing was ridiculous. Oh no, that's not Jimmy, that's Jimmy's brother, Jimmy. Sigh...
There is no chemistry between Clark and Lois at this point. They've tried, in a few forced ways, to indicate the two are interested in each other but I'm unconvinced, even if I pretend that Lana didn't show up again this season and cement herself as the tragically lost love of Clark's life. I'm hoping that whatever hapens to Lois in the future will help this situation.
Of course, I was also hoping that 8 would be it. I'm really, really, really convinced that 9 had better be it.
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quote:Originally posted by Christine: I actually thought the Jimmy thing was ridiculous. Oh no, that's not Jimmy, that's Jimmy's brother, Jimmy. Sigh...
Maybe they're related to Mr. Noodle's brother Mr. Noodle. Or Xathras' brother Xathras.
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Wasn't the Jimmy we always thought was Jimmy in Smallville actually Harold James Olsen? Apparently the Jimmy Olsen who was Superman's buddy is James Bartholomew Olsen. But if they're going to call Harold Jimmy, then they should call James Bart. The parents were very confused.
Just be thankful they didn't name them both Darryl.
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I couldn't help but laugh at the hilarity of the very last scene.
It's because they tried to do as many callbacks and cues to the Superman movies. But Tom Welling is no Christopher Reeve.
I don't know why they bothered getting the suit from Superman Returns. All of Clark's scenes in the suit looked like they were CGed. There was never one good shot with just Superman standing in the suit.
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Personally I think Smallville's strongest seasons were 8,9 and 10. No the show is not perfect but It always had heart and ambition and it was almost always fun. I really liked the finale.
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So is Smallville finally over? I stopped watching it when they killed off Lionel. Well, I guess I tried watching a few episodes after that, but my heart just wasn't in it anymore.
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It does seem weird that Smallville has been pretty lousy for about six or seven years and was renewed forever. Supernatural is now going the same way - it should have ended a couple of years ago, and is now a lurching zombie of its former self. It seems to be the CW way.
I'm looking forward to the new Superman movie, though.
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Jeorge, they may have killed off Lionel, but they kept bringing him back--like from an alternate universe. They even brought back Lex Luthor, via cloning and reassembling the most viable parts from the various clones. Even General Zod has a charmed life, returning from the dead (or Phantom Zone) in various improbable ways.
At least they ended the series with Clark wearing the suit and flying. (It was about time!) He does this after he has apparently attained "righteousness," so he can be a true superhero. I think it would be OK to call Superman a "saver," but it is inappropriate to call him a "savior." That last has religious connotations that go beyond any superhero.
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quote:Originally posted by Lissande: My husband's cousin has a son and daughter named two of our favorite names for our own children. We might name a son the boy's name anyway, but it would probably be too much to then name a future daughter the girl's name. I guess we see them too often for that not to be a little weird.
That's so weird that you should say that. My friend did the same thing. He named his daugher Lana after this show.
[SPOILERS]
Anyway, after watching this for 10 years I was really sad to see it end, and a bit dissapointed in the ending. For starters, the first hour was just about a wedding that didn't even happen. I mean, what a waste of time, mostly due to the fact that the previous episode started the whole Lois doubting if she should marry Clark, despite the fact that she has already struggled with it in past episodes (it really felt out of place). Everyone knew they were going to get back together, so why even waste our time with that when it's the second to last episode, which further wasted time in the very last episode.
I also expected to see a doomsday fight, but all i got was a zombie-Lionel fight that lasted all of 10 seconds. I guess I should have expected this, because after all it is smallville, but a man can dream.
The superman costume was a major disapointment too. Welling never even appeared in the suit except in CG, which was retarded. I liked seeing him swoosh around and save the day, but all they needed to do was give us a hero shot of him standing still in the suit, but we never got to see it because Welling refused to actually wear it. How are you going to be in a show about superman and never wear the suit? I just don't get it.
I also thought Green Arrow's scenes were retarded. He takes down all three of the bad guys in a single shot, and it is never explained how or why that happens. To make it worse, he uses his outfit and weird voice thing when they already know who he is...
I'd also like to know where the rest of the Justice League is. I understand funding and whatnot, but they really should have had them all there, at least in the church scene. Martian Manhunter and friends wer sorely missed this season as a group, so I was hoping to see them all together in the last episode, but it never happened. Oh well.
Finally, seeing Cloe read a comic book called Smallville was equally stupid, and quite possibly the dumbest thing in the episode. I have so many questions about how that is even possible and why that comic book even exists that I don't know quite what to say. I mean, doesn't it give away his identity?
The pros, for me at least, were:
-Seeing Lex, who stole the show, hands down. Some of the best dialogue in the entire show was from him in this episode -Watching Tess die -Watching Superman zip around and save the plane -Seeing Lois become the world famous reporter she eventually is supposed to be. She does this by interviewing the President, which i don't think a lot of people knew how significant that was. Lois is supposed to be a pulitzer prize winner and a world famous reporter, so it's good to see her start to get there. -Johnathan Kent's return in corporeal was interesting and fitting since he was the biggest part of clark's life. I was glad to have him back, even if he was just a ghost or whatever.
I would have enjoyed another season of Clark being the man of steel, even without the suit. This last season was one of the best because it showed him beings superman, but without the suit. It was a lot of fun.
Posts: 1324 | Registered: Feb 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: but it is inappropriate to call him a "savior." That last has religious connotations that go beyond any superhero.
Just wanted to touch on this. "Savior" just means someone who saves people. It has religious connotations only because our society has associated them with this word. Furthermore, Superman has been regarded in comics and other media as the comic book superhero version of Christ because he is so altruistic and has, on more than one ocassion, given his life to save mankind. It's a powerful image and has been done many times in films and books (Re: The Matrix).
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posted
I'd have thought that, even if you were religious, there's a difference between 'a savior' and 'the savior'. 'A' would be one of many. 'The' would be yours personally.
Anyone who is not of your religion can say whatever they like.
Anything else would be like McDonald's trying to trademark the word 'hamburger', because theirs are the most famous.
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quote:Originally posted by Bella Bee: It does seem weird that Smallville has been pretty lousy for about six or seven years and was renewed forever. Supernatural is now going the same way - it should have ended a couple of years ago, and is now a lurching zombie of its former self. It seems to be the CW way.
I'm looking forward to the new Superman movie, though.
Except is hasn't been lousy for the last six or 7 years. It got bad around season 5 then got good again around season 8 and it's ratings show that more than enough people agreed with that to keep it on the air.
Supernatural has always had good enough ratings for the CW and in fact it's ratings have been improving.
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: *** SPOILERS ***
Jeorge, they may have killed off Lionel, but they kept bringing him back--like from an alternate universe. They even brought back Lex Luthor, via cloning and reassembling the most viable parts from the various clones. Even General Zod has a charmed life, returning from the dead (or Phantom Zone) in various improbable ways.
At least they ended the series with Clark wearing the suit and flying. (It was about time!) He does this after he has apparently attained "righteousness," so he can be a true superhero. I think it would be OK to call Superman a "saver," but it is inappropriate to call him a "savior." That last has religious connotations that go beyond any superhero.
Why wouldn't people call him a savior? He is essentially a god. Sure not an Omnipotent god like the Christians believe in but he's certainly up there with the various pagan gods. Besides he does go around saving people.
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Sure. A savior as opposed to THE Savior. But it is interesting that he had to become sufficiently confirmed in his righteousness before he could finally don the suit and fly and be the greatest superhero of them all. It is one thing to present someone as evoking a sort of Christ figure. But Smallville may have gone just a little over the top with it. True, in the last episode, Superboy/man saves the entire earth from the approaching planetoid (which he diverted too easily). That's a pretty significant savior. But not in the sense of being a Redeemer. That brings in much more cosmic issues.
Jeff, I thought Cloe reading the Smallville comic book was cute. It was sort of a paying tribute.
I remember many years ago (decades ago) reading some fan comments in a syfy (in those days just sf) comic book where one fan asked why the villains didn't just pick up a Superman comic book to find out Superman's secret identity. Sort of the same thing. It's begging the limits of the suspension of disbelief.
Somewhat similar was the episode of Bones where Temperance Brennan says she is writing a fiction novel about a forensic anthropologist named Kathy Reichs (who is actually the author on whose novels Bones is based). I thought that was really amusing and clever. Kathy Reichs is a real forensic anthropologist, and she's pretty, too. Sometimes she is on the set helping with the show in some capacity.
Maybe it is a bit self-indulgent when the screenwriters of a series do this kind of thing. It's like reminding everyone of how mythic their story is. But it still just strikes me as fun. After all, it's really not true. We're all playing here, with our storyteller.
[ May 21, 2011, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: Ron Lambert ]
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Was there anything to indicate that the "Smallville" comic was about Clark? Or could it have been about the meteor freaks? In which case it makes more sense.
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I stopped watching in the middle of season five in the episode where Clark reveals everything to Lana, she dies, then he goes back in time, and his dad ends up dying, and his secret is unrevealed.
That just totally turned me off to the show, and I was never able to recover.
Did it get better after that?
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Yes seasons 8, 9 and 10 were very good. It's 5, 6 and 7 that are the weakest. Although the various pre justice league characters that are introduced in those seasons are fun to watch as is the formation of the Justice League episode in season 7
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Jeorge, yes, Lionel changed alot. At one point he had virtually a religious conversion, and became a dedicated do-gooder. But then he became embittered again. The alternate universe Lionel was uniformly bad.
Lisa, I am not sure who you mean by "original showrunners." I will admit I was glad when Lana finally went away. She was cute, but Lois was knock-out gorgeous, so I did not miss Lana. Besides, like Lyrhawn said, her plot line was getting ridiculous.
Clark's adoptive parents were mostly gone after one died and the other went away to serve in the legislature, but I never minded their part in the show's story line, and I was glad to see them show up again for short bits in the last show.
Thank goodness they held on to Cloe, even though she did vanish for a while a couple of times in the series. She is my favorite character. Bless you, Allison Mack, for making her such a delightful character.
You know, sometimes in a series like this, they have to write out certain characters because it costs too much to keep paying all the actors/actresses. This was admitted by the producers in their commentary on DVD for the last season of Charmed. They had to have Leo Wyatt (played by Brian Krause) locked away and frozen for several episodes, because of budget constraints. At least they returned him for the final episode. I think it is unfortunate when financial considerations affect the story.
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I wish we could get a superhero show on the same level of quality as Battlestar Galactica. Imagine a superman show with the writing, acting, and special effects of BSG. It would be rediculous!
Posts: 1324 | Registered: Feb 2011
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Birds of Prey made a half-hearted Ally McBeal attempt at a darker superhero show, but in contrast to Dark Angel which was still relevent at the time it was sloppy even by non-comic book fans and dissapeared quite quickly. Maybe Nightwing could be a sturdier character to follow, but certainly not the Dark Knight himself as that show would not meet the standard set by Nolan lately.
Who from the DC universe would make for a suitable show? Green Arrow? The Question? Solomon Grundy? Honestly Im surprised that they could play with Clark Kent this long, but less surprised that they have broken all but the one promise to never have him in suit.
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They were talking about doing a show with Raven. That seemed a little unlikely to me.
I thought Birds of Prey rocked. I was bummed that it got cancelled. They could actually do something with Booster Gold, the way he is now. Not the jerk he used to be and was still on Smallville, but the guy who with Rip Hunter is responsible for keeping time in order. That's a show that I think could really work. It could almost be Doctor Who-ish (as it originally was), going to various periods in history.
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If only Doctor Who had super powers. All he's got is a souped-up screwdriver and a hokey time machine/space ship. But I do love time travel stories. Especially the ones with the stone angels. They're a more serious threat than those Daleks that look and act and even speak like renegade Robbie the Robots. Plus the doctor only seems to frequent England, never shows up in America. He can't stand for "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" if he confines himself to the socialist states of Europe. Of course, I know, the British invented him. But that just means he can't be a Superman substitute.
What is needed is a real Superman show featuring the grown up Superman. Something better than Lois and Clark was. Which wasn't bad, it just could have been better. It needs to be more mythic than romance--a show that explores how the world would really be with Superman in it.
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quote: I'm not sure who would name two children Jimmy in the same timeframe.
I know a family of seven girls, six of whom are called Ann. Sue-Ann, Toni-Ann etc. It's the seventh girl, Emma, who gets the strange looks from strangers You have to wonder why they changed the theme then??
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quote:Plus the doctor only seems to frequent England, never shows up in America.
Do you even watch this show? Have you watched it recently? Because there've only been a couple of seasons in the past few years where the doctor hasn't visited America. Admittedly, most of the time the fake US accents sucked, but still. Outside of Britain (which is not just England by the way - look it up) America is where he visits more often than anywhere else.
quote: He can't stand for "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" if he confines himself to the socialist states of Europe. Of course, I know, the British invented him.
There's just no... I can't even... Posts: 1528 | Registered: Nov 2004
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I felt that Birds of Prey went out of the way to show stereotypical feminism. Oracle was disabled and had all these responsibilities but she was also a high-school teacher and had a boyfriend, just to make sure that she was well rounded and not a shut-in with no life. And dont get me started on that horrible rendition of Harley Quinn, or the very idea that Huntress could regularly go to a therapist who is secretly a notorious criminal and Oracle not know about it.
All the overt tactics to make the show about strong women but they always needed men at the same time, like a poorly written Gilmore Girls with pleather on everything.
posted
Bella, when did Doctor Who ever visit America? Please name even one episode. I haven't seen every episode, especially since my cable service currently does not include BBC America. But all the episodes I have seen where the doctor visits earth, it is always England. Not Great Britain, not Scotland, not Wales--just England. Usually in London. Sometimes the English countryside.
If the producers/writers are making an effort to break out of their long-standing provencialism, then fine. But I haven't seen it.
Rivka, to me, Lois and Clark was the episodic equivalent of a chick flick. Maybe you like that. Fine. There was enough of the mythic Superman element to keep me interested, but frankly I could hardly care less about the relationship between Superman and Lois Lane. That was just something I had to endure through to get to the good stuff, where Superman flies around and does heroic stuff.
Oops. Thunderstorm is coming up. Have to sign off. I never leave my computer on when there's a thunderstorm. I don't trust surge protectors that much.
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Dalek is another one that took place in the US.
[Edit - Ah, that's what I get for getting busy at work and taking a long time between writing a post and actually submitting it.]
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: But all the episodes I have seen where the doctor visits earth, it is always England. Not Great Britain, not Scotland, not Wales--just England. Usually in London. Sometimes the English countryside.
Leave it out. Do you know how much it would cost to go all the way out to Wales? Too much just to film an episode of The Dr. Who.
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quote:Originally posted by Ron Lambert: But all the episodes I have seen where the doctor visits earth, it is always England. Not Great Britain, not Scotland, not Wales--just England. Usually in London. Sometimes the English countryside.
The vast majority of episodes set on Earth do take place on the British Isles (not just England, and I'd guess that more take place in the country than in London, really), but there have been episodes ever since the first season, back in the 60s, that took place elsewhere on Earth. The Aztecs is probably the first of them. There have been a number of episodes set in France, I know, and the best episode of the Tom Baker years, City of Death, was filmed on location in Paris.
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Ron, the first two episodes of this season were not only set but actually filmed in the US.
Apart from the two NY based Dalek episodes, there was also an episode in the middle of season 1 set in Utah (though you never really saw any scenery, for budgetary reasons).
So that's five episodes set in the US, which is more than France (two episodes) or Italy (two episodes).
As for the rest of the UK, there have been some episodes set in Cardiff (thanks for that laugh, Dobbie) - because that's where the show is filmed.
Also a number of episodes set in Scotland. And if you don't remember the difference between Scotland and England, Amy Pond will seek you out and bite you.
(But seriously, it just bugs me when people use 'England' when they mean 'Britain', because there are three different countries in GB, not one. And if you really did mean England, you need to watch the show more often.)
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To me, there's essentially no difference between England, Scotland, Ireland, and Wales. It's like the difference between New York and New Jersey.
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England and Ireland are essentially the same, in the way that the US and Canada are essentially the same - in that they're completely different countries.
But you can be as unaware of the differences between the countries in Britain, or in the UK (neither of which include the Rep. of Ireland), as you like, just as long as you don't call them all 'England'. Because then you're just wrong.
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quote:Originally posted by Bella Bee: Ron, the first two episodes of this season were not only set but actually filmed in the US.
True, but if you want Ron to understand that, you'll have to use Google translate or something to convert your statement into Neanderthal.
quote:Originally posted by Bella Bee: As for the rest of the UK, there have been some episodes set in Cardiff (thanks for that laugh, Dobbie) - because that's where the show is filmed.
Because Ron is unlikely to understand the reference, let me point out that Cardiff is in Wales.
quote:Originally posted by Bella Bee: (But seriously, it just bugs me when people use 'England' when they mean 'Britain', because there are three different countries in GB, not one. And if you really did mean England, you need to watch the show more often.)
What about Northern Ireland? That's part of Great Britain, but it isn't English or Welsh or Scottish.
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This is why I feel perfectly justified in not getting it right -- even the people who jump up and down when I get it wrong get it wrong. Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by AchillesHeel: I felt that Birds of Prey went out of the way to show stereotypical feminism. Oracle was disabled and had all these responsibilities but she was also a high-school teacher and had a boyfriend, just to make sure that she was well rounded and not a shut-in with no life. And dont get me started on that horrible rendition of Harley Quinn, or the very idea that Huntress could regularly go to a therapist who is secretly a notorious criminal and Oracle not know about it.
True... it's about as likely as a pair of glasses hiding Clark Kent.
quote:Originally posted by AchillesHeel: All the overt tactics to make the show about strong women but they always needed men at the same time, like a poorly written Gilmore Girls with pleather on everything.
I totally agree. I can count the number of TV shows (particularly superhero shows) that have had so much as a single episode that would pass the Bechdel Rule on the fingers of one foot. Right now, that seems to be the price the networks exact.
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