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» Hatrack River Forum » Active Forums » Books, Films, Food and Culture » Smallville Finale - Who'd have thought? (Page 3)

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Author Topic: Smallville Finale - Who'd have thought?
JanitorBlade
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The label neanderthal at least for me, when applied to other human beings has always had a feeling of primitive or less than average intelligence when used.

Lisa is claiming that for her it just means somebody who is in possession of a primitive mindset, or particularly a sexist one. I don't really see how Ron disliking Lois and Clark because it was more focused on their relationship instead of the heroics of Superman means he hates sophistication or is sexist, so I find label neanderthal insulting nonetheless.

Look I'm not you guys' parent, I'm not going to say, "Now apologize to Ron, and tell him you are sorry for calling him a neanderthal". But I am going to say that it seems pretty obvious to me that somebody insulted another poster, or at least offense was taken. I find that when I wasn't intending to hurt somebody's feelings that it's very easy to apologize for their feeling hurt, when I actually want them to feel hurt I come up with reasons for why I shouldn't have to make amends.

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TomDavidson
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I don't actually know what Ron thinks of Neanderthals at all, as he's a Young Earther.
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kmbboots
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Get your facts straight, Ron. I wasn't snarky to you in this thread. I was vaguely nostalgic for my childhood obsession with Readers' Digest. I neither know, nor speculated, nor care where you took your IQ test.
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katharina
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You do know - he has stated he finds it an insulting term, which makes sense, since it is an insulting term.
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katharina
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This thread is a monument to crappy behavior all the way around.
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TomDavidson
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Yes, he finds it an insulting term. But that's not the detail I cared about. (I imagine that's probably relevant to Lisa, since she's the one who insulted him.) But for my part, I'm mainly curious whether he feels like he was just called a yeti or something.
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Jeff C.
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quote:
Originally posted by katharina:
This thread is a monument to crappy behavior all the way around.

Hey, I take exception to that! My story about how we all die was pretty awesome. Now take it back or I'll start calling you names and then we can argue about how smart we each think we are.

DO IT!!!

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manji
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I don't know why this thread doesn't just die. It's clearly no longer about Smallville.
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Raymond Arnold
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First of all, it did die, and then get resurrected. Second, it's only actually degraded that badly in the last two days. It's not like it's been sitting here festering for weeks on end.
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Ron Lambert
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Jeff, your story about how we all die was amusing, in a Wagnerian sort of way. (His Ring Trilogy operas had the most ridiculous plots. For one thing he gets clear into the middle of the third opera before Siegfried ever meets a woman who isn't his aunt.) It reminds me of what someone said once, "Life is a terminal illness."

I used that quote once to "cheer up" a girlfriend who had fallen into a real depressed mood, and challenged me to say something to cheer her up. The quote apparently took her by surpise, and she laughed in spite of herself.

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Ron Lambert
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Tom, I do not challenge the former existence of Neanderthals. Variation of the human species could easily have been that great. I just challenge WHEN they were supposed to have existed. I challenge WHEN homo sapiens sapiens (us) was supposed to have begun.
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TomDavidson
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Thanks, Ron. I was wondering how that worked for you.
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Ron Lambert
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As for the hissy fit some of you threw over Obama's grandmother saying he was born in her village, I did provide you with a link to a video of her saying that.

I also have stressed repeatedly (at least six times now), that my point is there WAS A CREDIBLE REASON TO QUESTION the validity of claims about where Obama was born, AT THE TIME OF THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN. It was never intellectually honest to dismiss this with ridicule. Why does this not penetrate?

I do not care that much where Obama was actually born--what I care about is his nonchalant disregard for the importance of satisfying responsible questions about whether he fulfills the U.S. Constitutional requirements that he must be a natural born citizen.

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Rakeesh
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Why not pick that discussion back up in its own thread? It's still there.
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mr_porteiro_head
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quote:
Originally posted by Lisa:

No one has any idea how intelligent Neanderthals were compared to us. Nor is "Neanderthal" generally used as a term for a person of low intelligence. What it is commonly used for is someone with primitive ideas, particularly sexist ones.

So, how sexist were Neanderthals compared to us?
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Rakeesh
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quote:
As for the hissy fit some of you threw over Obama's grandmother saying he was born in her village, I did provide you with a link to a video of her saying that.
If you're going to call it a hissy fit, I'm going to point out that this is in fact a lie: you claim you provided a link to a video of her saying that. What you in fact provided was a video where it appeared that she said that. We went over this in depth in the thread in question, a discussion you abandoned after repeated requests that you show us exactly where we can see Obama's grandmother say-with her own mouth, with the words syncing up in her voice simultanous to her lips moving-that he was born in a village in Kenya.

You didn't do that. When people told you that that's what the video showed, more than once, you ignored it. So you told a lie just now.

Given the fact that your 'credible reason' to question the validity of his claims about his birthplace rests on foundations such as these, at the time of the election, yes, it was intellectually honest to dismiss them with ridicule because the claims that he was born in Kenya were never anything but dishonest at worst or poorly pursued at best.

quote:
what I care about is his nonchalant disregard for the importance of satisfying responsible questions about whether he fulfills the U.S. Constitutional requirements that he must be a natural born citizen.
Yes, because the best, most reasonable measure of what is responsible is what the far base of your opposition considers damning, yes?

You're being dishonest. Yes, I 'dare' to point it out. Please, be upset about that-channel that energy into proving me wrong. Go to that video yourself, view it, and tell us the minute and second that it says the things you claim it says-not just says, but actually shows.

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Destineer
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quote:
As for the hissy fit some of you threw over Obama's grandmother saying he was born in her village, I did provide you with a link to a video of her saying that.
Just to be clear, Ron, your contention at that time was that in this video you see Sarah Obama on the screen speaking at the same time you hear the sound clip "Barack nate dhalani."

Do you stand by that? Can you point out how many minutes and seconds into the video you see that happen?

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Raymond Arnold
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Okay, as original creator of the thread, I have no problem with thread drift, BUT when there is a perfectly good recent thread addressing a particular topic, please put that discussion there.
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AchillesHeel
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I dont really understand why they used Solomon Grundy. Dont get me wrong, along side The Phantom Stranger Grundy is one of my absolute favorite non main DC characters, but he doesnt belong in live action pieces. The overall appearance and characterization is lost with a real human being, Im still not really sure what Grundy is but he is most definatly larger than any person and I dont believe anyone can pull off that voice while giving a believable performance. So why use Solomon Grundy? Black Manta and the eskimo are a bit out there but they still make better sense if they are alluding to future works involving the villians.
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Geraine
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The 10th season to me just seemed to lack something. It seemed like the they just rehashed the same things over and over, then went out with a bang.

It seemed like every episode was : "Oh no Darkseid took over someone else, will Oliver fall to the dark side? Oliver overcame the darkness! Yay!"

Rinse/ Repeat

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Ron Lambert
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Destineer: Yes. Did you not view the video for yourself?
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Rakeesh
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Where exactly in the video does it say what you say it says, then?
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Chris Bridges
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After giving up somewhere around season 5, I did watch the Smallville finale. And it served as a perfect wrapup to everything I loved and hated about the series, so well done, everyone.

On the hate side:
- It had Clark being an oblivious idiot.
- It had bad CGI.
- It had scenes that could have been eliminated with the use of that miraculous device, the cellphone (remember when it was apparently easier to drive out to Lex's place several times an episode and tell him stuff instead of, you know, calling him?)
- It had overblown metaphors that went just past the metaphor stage to become look-heres. "Look! The ghost of Pa Kent is handing him the suit! This is meaningful!"
- It had wildly inconsistent use of powers and strengths. Why is that sometimes Clark can be hit by a speeding bus with no ill effects but a suped-up Ollie can smack him down? If he can think fast enough to safely run around with superspeed why do so many people take him by surprise? Hey writers? A superspeeding Clark rushing in fast enough to not be seen would also bring in tornado-strong winds right behind him,. Just saying.
- Everything major happens offscreen. The big Clark/Bad Guy fight the whole season has been leading to? Clark flies through him, we're done here. A fiery planet is threatening? Let's have Clark fly toward it and then it goes away.
- Deus ex machina solutions. The whole series I was wondering how Superman would face Lex when Lex already knows him. "Clark, what's with the cape?" Now I know, and it's as stupid as I expected. He lost his memory! Sure! Actually, as often as he and Lana have been knocked unconscious in this show it's a wonder he has any higher brain functions at all.
- Build-up expectations, massive disappointment. We wanted to see Welling in the suit. For 10 years, we knew it wouldn't happen till the last episode, but it was assumed we'd get it then. We did not, and I'm not at all surprised.

And yet I still watched all the way through. Something about the show works, on some level. Absurd, silly, and maddening as it is, there's always been some good stuff in Smallville.

They desperately need a good script doctor, though. Want to know what fans wanted to see?

EXT. METROPOLIS - DAY.

Apokolips is approaching earth, a fiery ball of hate. Citizens of Metropolis GATHER to look up at their doom. Some are crying. Many of them have glowy OMEGA symbols on their foreheads. OLIVER rushes out into the street. People are packed in the windows, watching. The end is very clearly near.

CUT TO:

A terrified WOMAN HOLDING A BABY leans too close to her window and gets jostled; the baby slips, FALLS. The woman screams, the crowd reacts.

And something blurs past the woman. Something red and blue.

CLARK lands gently in the Metropolis street, in full costumed view, holding the baby, moving with calm assurance. The crowd marvels.

MAN IN CROWD
It's the Blur!

People gasp and murmur. Clark HANDS THE BABY to Oliver. Then cue the Superman theme song as he SMILES THE SUPERMAN SMILE for the first time ever, and TAKES OFF into the sky.

OLIVER
(holding the baby)
Good luck, Clark.

As we cut back and forth between his grim determination and the people we see signs of long-denied hope in the populace. Here and there the Omega symbol blinks out, overwhelmed by emotion. The people of Metropolis CHEER HIM ON.

Clark vanishes into the planet's corona. And Apokolips STARTS TO MOVE AWAY.


Same scene as before. No fancy special effects the crew hasn't already done a zillion times before, I'm not even suggesting we show him pushing the planet. But we get two things we were denied: Clark, in the suit, being Superman, in full view. And we get the added benefit of Metropolis realizing their hometown hero is a lot more heroic and inspirational than they imagined.

How hard would that have been?

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Lisa
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quote:
Originally posted by AchillesHeel:
I dont really understand why they used Solomon Grundy. Dont get me wrong, along side The Phantom Stranger Grundy is one of my absolute favorite non main DC characters, but he doesnt belong in live action pieces. The overall appearance and characterization is lost with a real human being, Im still not really sure what Grundy is but he is most definatly larger than any person and I dont believe anyone can pull off that voice while giving a believable performance. So why use Solomon Grundy? Black Manta and the eskimo are a bit out there but they still make better sense if they are alluding to future works involving the villians.

Huh?
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Destineer
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quote:
Originally posted by Ron Lambert:
Destineer: Yes. Did you not view the video for yourself?

Yes, Ron. I did. [Roll Eyes]

Since you seem game to discuss this again, out of respect for Raymond's quite reasonable wishes, I'll resurrect the old thread. See you there?

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AchillesHeel
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Solomon Grundy was at the table of villians at the end. Depending on which itteration you want to go with Grundy is either a zombie with the deteriorated minds of several people or some kind of swamp-plant monster. Either way his strength is usually on par with Superman while his stature resembles The Hulk and The Thing and he is always connected with this rhyme.

Solomon Grundy,
Born on a Monday,
Christened on Tuesday,
Married on Wednesday,
Took ill on Thursday,
Grew worse on Friday,
Died on Saturday,
Buried on Sunday.
This is the end
Of Solomon Grundy

He even recites it while fighting and says little else. And I have no idea why they would alude to having a live-action Solomon Grundy in the future, it would be worse than the Eric Bana Hulk movie.

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