quote:I would work 100 hours to support (my family) alone.
Just to be clear, I would, too, if I could not support my family by working 40 hours. Or ten hours. Or some other quantity of hours.
Obviously, supporting your family should be your first priority.
But the obvious question here is: what constitutes "support?" At some point, the money you're earning by working longer hours is only going to pay for a lifestyle that does not compensate for your daily absence.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I completely understand the considerations for a liver transplant. It is possible he died due to the failure to match...but...the report is he was denied. A person of his age would certainly be at the top of the list in America. If he was at or near the top of the list and no match was found that would be tragic. If, as the report suggests, he was denied to his behavior, it's horrific. We may as well go back to Hitler killing the mentally retarded.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:A person of his age would certainly be at the top of the list in America.
I refer you to the posts by ClaudiaTherese, an actual medical doctor, which point out that this is absolutely untrue.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Orincoro: Yeah, we're done.
Oh, sorry. Didn't realize you lived in Europe.
I'm not sure. I don't think Orincoro mentioned it explicitly. But I think he subtly implied that he was on a "vacation" rather than living in Europe.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: We may as well go back to Hitler killing the mentally retarded.
Is it that you're horribly misinformed and ADD, or that you just think everyone else in the world is really dumb, misinformed, and even more ADD?
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: ... If, as the report suggests, he was denied to his behavior, it's horrific. We may as well go back to Hitler killing the mentally retarded.
It is interesting to note that according to that reference, we may as well have gone back to Hitler at any time during the last seven years.
I don't know whether to feel worse that the United States has been living under the equivalent of Hitler for seven years or that no one apparently noticed.
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If I remember correctly, your country has universal healthcare and a flat tax. I would go for that. I enjoy our exchanges. The US is on a path to the left of former communist counties. I guess mankind is not capable of learning from its mistakes.
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We are supposed to be outraged at not providing a liver for someone whose behaviour indicates that it would be wasted yet we balk at providing (via tax dollars) food for children?
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: ... If, as the report suggests, he was denied to his behavior, it's horrific. We may as well go back to Hitler killing the mentally retarded.
It is interesting to note that according to that reference, we may as well have gone back to Hitler at any time during the last seven years.
I don't know whether to feel worse that the United States has been living under the equivalent of Hitler for seven years or that no one apparently noticed.
When I think of Hitler, I think of a politician that gained power by demonizing other people, ie the Jews and consolidating a supreme power base, ie the arians.
I fail to see this pattern in the past administration. If you do, please enlighten me.
Current administration: class warfare is full steam ahead. Instead of Jews it's Wall Street and instead of Arians it's main street" The same path with different markers. Divide the masses. With Hitler it was race. With Obama it's income. Hitler was freely elected, and so was Hamas. You only need to get 51% on your side. If you can pit 51% against the top 10%, you are assured power.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: I am so confused...
We are supposed to be outraged at not providing a liver for someone whose behaviour indicates that it would be wasted yet we balk at providing (via tax dollars) food for children?
How many starving children are there in the UK? I'll wager that a 22 year old on his deathbed would change his ways and take care of the new liver. My brother was a serious drug addict. He had a serious drug induced heart attack and now he won't even drink coffee.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: If I remember correctly, your country has universal healthcare and a flat tax. I would go for that. I enjoy our exchanges. The US is on a path to the left of former communist counties. I guess mankind is not capable of learning from its mistakes.
In fact, income tax is even more progressive than in the States so you probably wouldn't be too happy with that. We do have a regressive federal sales tax though which you might like.
Comparing the two countries, a big cultural difference is that while Canadians prefer to nationalize things like health-care, Americans like to nationalize banks and auto-manufacturers.
I like to call it socialism with American characteristics.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:I think of a politician that gained power by demonizing other people, ie the Jews and consolidating a supreme power base, ie the arians.
I fail to see this pattern in the past administration.
*chokes in astonished outrage* Dude, you will never hear me compare Bush to Hitler; I think the comparisons are ridiculous. But if you were to ask me all the ways in which Bush was not like Hitler, saying that Bush didn't demonize people for political gain would not be anywhere on my list.
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quote:I'll wager that a 22 year old on his deathbed would change his ways and take care of the new liver.
Bear in mind that you'd be wagering with someone else's life. Those people in charge of distributing livers -- both here and in countries with universal health care -- are not willing to take that bet, and prefer instead to give the liver to someone more likely to benefit from it. Do you trust them to make that determination? If not, how would you prefer to decide who gets a liver?
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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I seriously doubt Americans like nationalized banks and auto manufacturers, but that is what the ignorant people who voted for "change" got. Maybe next election they'll consider what the change is. Like wheel of fortune, they chose the mystery item behind the curtain over the known prize.
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So are you conceding all the other points, or are you going to keep changing the subject every time someone proves you wrong?
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He's taling about CZR, I think, which is where I live. We do have a flat tax and subsidized health care, although it is not completely free anymore.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: ... If, as the report suggests, he was denied to his behavior, it's horrific. We may as well go back to Hitler killing the mentally retarded.
It is interesting to note that according to that reference, we may as well have gone back to Hitler at any time during the last seven years.
... I fail to see this pattern in the past administration. If you do, please enlighten me.
I'm simply addressing your "if." What the report suggests is true. Indeed, it has been true for at least 7 years in the States. Thus, it would seem that you are in fact asserting that the US "may as well go back to Hitler" for the last 7 years.
Posts: 7593 | Registered: Sep 2006
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quote:Originally posted by kmbboots: I am so confused...
We are supposed to be outraged at not providing a liver for someone whose behaviour indicates that it would be wasted yet we balk at providing (via tax dollars) food for children?
How many starving children are there in the UK? I'll wager that a 22 year old on his deathbed would change his ways and take care of the new liver. My brother was a serious drug addict. He had a serious drug induced heart attack and now he won't even drink coffee.
I thought you were complaining about all those food stamps your tax dollars were providing so we are talking about US children.
quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: ... If, as the report suggests, he was denied to his behavior, it's horrific. We may as well go back to Hitler killing the mentally retarded.
It is interesting to note that according to that reference, we may as well have gone back to Hitler at any time during the last seven years.
I don't know whether to feel worse that the United States has been living under the equivalent of Hitler for seven years or that no one apparently noticed.
When I think of Hitler, I think of a politician that gained power by demonizing other people, ie the Jews and consolidating a supreme power base, ie the arians.
I fail to see this pattern in the past administration. If you do, please enlighten me.
Current administration: class warfare is full steam ahead. Instead of Jews it's Wall Street and instead of Arians it's main street" The same path with different markers. Divide the masses. With Hitler it was race. With Obama it's income. Hitler was freely elected, and so was Hamas. You only need to get 51% on your side. If you can pit 51% against the top 10%, you are assured power.
I dislike the concept of comparing a politician you do not agree with with Hitler, it's an insult to people who actually suffered under his regime, but, Bush did often demonize people who didn't agree with him with his whole you're either with us or against us policies. I also hate when conservative types act as if only middle Americans are true Americans or conservative Americans, when what about people in other parts of America? Division like that makes me cross. And dang I WISH I made 6 figures. I don't even make 5! If I was making 200,000 bucks a year, I wouldn't be complaining. I'd be dancing in the street. Unemployed people get taxed on their unemployment! And for me that's barely enough to get by on. If I was making 6 figures I'd be too happy about making real money to complain about taxes, that's way less of a burden than getting 158 a week and having to pay taxes next year on that. Sheesh.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: So are you conceding all the other points, or are you going to keep changing the subject every time someone proves you wrong?
What do you think? His MO is hit and run, and has always been. It's along the lines of "I know you are, but what am I?"
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quote:Originally posted by TomDavidson: So are you conceding all the other points, or are you going to keep changing the subject every time someone proves you wrong?
Not changing the subject or conceding. As usual, it's one against many. Forgive me if I failed to respond to whatever point you are referring to. My response may have been directed at someone else. Please, reiterate the concession point you are suggesting.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:I seriously doubt Americans like nationalized banks and auto manufacturers, but that is what the ignorant people who voted for "change" got.
Um... Bush was the one who initiated bailouts for both sectors.
And the "change" Obama campaigned on had little to do with the financial crisis which came onto the scene rather late in the election cycle.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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This is an article by Singer who, I'm sure, rubs many the wrong way. This is basically an argument for rationing healthcare. I think I agree with his arguments, but would be interested in hearing counters to his arguments (as against counters to Singer).
Posts: 644 | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:If I was making 6 figures I'd be too happy about making real money to complain about taxes, that's way less of a burden than getting 158 a week and having to pay taxes next year on that. Sheesh.
If you're only getting $158 a week then I think it's unlikely that you'll owe any taxes.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: My response may have been directed at someone else.
It was 10 minutes ago- who did you direct this at:
quote: I seriously doubt Americans like nationalized banks and auto manufacturers, but that is what the ignorant people who voted for "change" got. Maybe next election they'll consider what the change is. Like wheel of fortune, they chose the mystery item behind the curtain over the known prize.
Because apart from being related to the general topic of electing leaders, it doesn't have anything to do with any post I can see in the thread. Inasmuch as it's an oblique statement directed into nowhere space, how does it qualify as a response to something that's been said? If not, why do you claim it to be?
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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He's taling about CZR, I think, which is where I live. We do have a flat tax and subsidized health care, although it is not completely free anymore.
Yes,
I was responding to you and the CZR. You once told me what your tax rate was and I was quite impressed for what you got. Sorry to hear that it is "progessing" to not quite free anymore. That is the nature of government. The toll to pay for a bridge never expires and only increases. A minor "administrative" fee on retired US military healthcare is increased by a factor of 10 after a few years. This is where the lines are drawn. I'm not greedy. In fact I gave more to charity than the great savior Barack Obama. Problem is with government, you can always afford a small increase in taxes. They justify it by, "Who won't pay a dollar a week more". Problem is, next week it's another dollar. Hopefully your country doesn't have a "living and breathing" constitution so you can truly live free.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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quote:Originally posted by MattP: And the "change" Obama campaigned on had little to do with the financial crisis which came onto the scene rather late in the election cycle.
Came to the public's attention late in the election cycle- crisis was imminent for quite some time, but that's an arguable point.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: Hopefully your country doesn't have a "living and breathing" constitution so you can truly live free.
Indeed; no doubt the framers of the constitution foresaw computers, nuclear weapons etc. etc. with complete clarity and drew up the constitution accordingly.
Posts: 644 | Registered: Sep 2008
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: I'm not greedy. In fact I gave more to charity than the great savior Barack Obama. Problem is with government, you can always afford a small increase in taxes. They justify it by, "Who won't pay a dollar a week more". Problem is, next week it's another dollar. Hopefully your country doesn't have a "living and breathing" constitution so you can truly live free.
No, you're boastful and self-centered, and seem to suffer from a great deal of envy and distrust.
I'm an American citizen, by the way.
Posts: 9912 | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Forgive me if I failed to respond to whatever point you are referring to.
1) Your decision to work more than sixty hours a week and pay high income taxes to provide a wealthier lifestyle to your children instead of seeing them more often is your own, and not a choice I myself would make.
2) The decision to not provide a liver to an alcoholic is not somehow a consequence of socialized medicine, as it's the same decision the American healthcare system makes. Moreover, it's the correct decision, as long as there are other people out there who also need the same liver and are more likely to benefit.
3) Saying that Bush is not like Hitler because he didn't demonize people for his own political purposes is like saying that Teddy Roosevelt is nothing like Franz Kafka because Roosevelt wasn't a woman.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: I'm not greedy. In fact I gave more to charity than the great savior Barack Obama. Problem is with government, you can always afford a small increase in taxes. They justify it by, "Who won't pay a dollar a week more". Problem is, next week it's another dollar. Hopefully your country doesn't have a "living and breathing" constitution so you can truly live free.
No, you're boastful and self-centered, and seem to suffer from a great deal of envy and distrust.
I'm an American citizen, by the way.
Not being boastful about my tithe to the church. The community organizer gave less than I did until he began running for president. I wish we had a president who had a real job at least once in his life. A president who went to college to be something other than a politician. Maybe you should see how successful the once state senator was for south side Chicago. Type this in google: "chicago murders". How may of those victims voted him into state political power? He moved on. What about his promises to them? I can't convince you but please watch him. His promises do not pan out. He'll promise Eden on Earth to get what he wants. Didn't he warn about 8% unemployemnt unless we passed his bill ---- now we're at 10%. I must admire him, he is the perfect politician and gives great speeches (as long as his teleprompter is functional). As I've said before..Lucy, Charly Brown and the football.
Posts: 1495 | Registered: Mar 2009
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Yes, that was a boast. It was couched rather transparently in an attack on Obama, but it served its purpose as a boast. IE: "I don't understand why it takes you so long to read a book, I can read an entire 50,000 word book in an hour." That's a boast- you comparing yourself to someone else, and you coming out favorably. No one buys that you're meek and unassuming about it. Everyone sees this mal, everyone knows what you're doing. It doesn't fool anyone.
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I'm a little confused. Do you actually know anything about Obama's community activism?
Because here's the story: Obama was perfectly content to be an activist until about 1987, when he decided -- after finding out what happened to his father in Kenya, and after running into roadblock after roadblock working at Altgeld -- that activism alone wasn't enough, and that to effect real change you had to become a politician. He resolved at that point to refocus on local and state politics, went back to school mainly for networking purposes, and returned to Chicago in 1991 precisely so that he could do some civic good. It's worth noting that every year Obama was a senator for Chicago, the murder rate declined -- not, mind you, that I think he had anything to do with that.
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quote:If I was making 6 figures I'd be too happy about making real money to complain about taxes, that's way less of a burden than getting 158 a week and having to pay taxes next year on that. Sheesh.
If you're only getting $158 a week then I think it's unlikely that you'll owe any taxes.
In unemployment. I will owe taxes, except for that bit of money they said I won't owe taxes for. I can't afford to get it taken out too, because I need that money. It's frustrating. I hope i get more when I renew my unemployment.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Originally posted by malanthrop: I seriously doubt Americans like nationalized banks and auto manufacturers, but that is what the ignorant people who voted for "change" got. Maybe next election they'll consider what the change is. Like wheel of fortune, they chose the mystery item behind the curtain over the known prize.
Bank nationalization, if you want to call it that, was started under Bush.
Posts: 10886 | Registered: Feb 2000
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It's not actually that easy to get a job at McDonald's as people think. I've applied there... I've applied for Tesechi's, Target, Stop and Shop, so many places and for some reason not only will they not hire me, but they keep having Now Hiring signs up after I've applied several times. It's ridiculous. They'd rather hire teenagers than a 30 year old college graduate. So I'm just about tired of folks saying, "You could apply for McDonald's" when despite having a good job ethic even for jobs I don't like, they still will not hire me at all.
But I do have a week long 15 dollar per hour job coming next month, so that's good.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:2) The decision to not provide a liver to an alcoholic is not somehow a consequence of socialized medicine, as it's the same decision the American healthcare system makes. Moreover, it's the correct decision, as long as there are other people out there who also need the same liver and are more likely to benefit.
I hate it when people (in general) make arguments regarding the validity of the decision made without understanding of the logic that led to the decision being made.
Malanthrop, you clearly have shown you do not understand the medical science behind transplantation nor the statistics relevant to that discussion. If you have an interest in the topic besides a straw man, please look up some reviews or studies regarding transplantation for your own benefit.
Posts: 1261 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:...he is the perfect politician and gives great speeches (as long as his teleprompter is functional)...
I still don't understand this persistent nutjob talking point. Obama uses a teleprompter during his speeches. So do many other politicians. How the hell did this become something to mock him for? Is he somehow reduced to the level of a stuttering 4-year-old without his magic toy? Because I haven't noticed that happening during his many interviews, off the cuff comments, press conferences or debates.
Point out his shortcomings, we need that. But don't make up any, it just makes you look foolish and reduces the effectiveness of your valid points.
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One most wonder if he's ever watched an episode of house. At least one where they say, no, she can't have this heart, she has an eating disorder. So House lies about that so she can get one.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote:Obama uses a teleprompter during his speeches. So do many other politicians.
And the ones who don't have written notes. Why would using high tech tools to do THE EXACT SAME THING be a *bad* thing or indicate inferiority?
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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Because to attack him otherwise requires too much thinking on the part of the audience? Because Obama doesn't have any easily mockable attributes so they have to invent some?
In my pen cup at work I have one of the Obama's Energy Plan" tire gauges the RNC was handing out to mock his energy conservation speech where he suggested ways to improve gas mileage, including checking the air in your tires. How silly, they said, ignoring the fact that McCain said the exact same thing in an earlier speech.
When you can't refute your opponent, you belittle him.
Posts: 7790 | Registered: Aug 2000
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Because obviously the Left has been making Obama out to be the God-King of America, Jesus Reborn, the Return of the freakin' Jedi. That's the only reason he was elected. Such a prodigiously talented individual would logically be expected to have the greatest extemporaneous skills in history. For the Great Liberal Messiah, anything less than ad-libbing an "I Have a Dream"-quality speech in response to a question shouted by a reporter while he's walking to his car is an utter failure of communication and leadership.
Posts: 1321 | Registered: Sep 1999
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quote:Not being boastful about my tithe to the church.
Here's what (among many, many other things) you're willfully misunderstand, malanthrop: "Hey! Lookit this! I am bragging about this cool thing!" is not actually the only way to boast about something. A comment can be made that is quite a bit more subtle than that, and yet still be bragging.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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What about for those of us who are not "the Left" and voted for him only after researching the positions and history of both Obama and his opponents? Or the large percentage of Independents that also voted for him?
I didn't vote for him because he was black. I didn't vote for him because he talked pretty. I didn't even vote for him because he wasn't Bush.
I spent a great deal of time deciding where to cast my votes in the primary and general election. I spend a good deal of time keeping up one what's happening now, from many sources. I have no tolerance for people who seek to sway my opinion with hysterical hyperbole, trumped up conspiracy theories, or outright inaccuracies taken out of context and presented as fact.
Pasting the title of Great Liberal Messiah on him and then condemning him for not sustaining goals he never set for himself strikes me as being remarkably stupid. Some of his supporters have treated him like the greatest thing to hit politics, ever, that's true. (Personally I don't think the Left elevated him to Messiahhood as much as the 24/7 media did.) But not all of them have, and lumping all of them together as fools is sloppy reasoning at best and intentional bias at worst.
I don't agree with everything he's done or said, and I'm happy to discuss any of those things, backed up with references. You may think I chose poorly, but please respect my decision as one that was made eyes open.
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quote:Originally posted by Tarrsk: Because obviously the Left has been making Obama out to be the God-King of America, Jesus Reborn, the Return of the freakin' Jedi. That's the only reason he was elected. Such a prodigiously talented individual would logically be expected to have the greatest extemporaneous skills in history. For the Great Liberal Messiah, anything less than ad-libbing an "I Have a Dream"-quality speech in response to a question shouted by a reporter while he's walking to his car is an utter failure of communication and leadership.
Didn't they do the same thing with Bush? Only he was a conservative messiah and all of these folks were going on and on about what a good Christian he was and how nice it was to have such a good Christian man in office. Only he wasn't as good at making speeches. Geez. Some folks idealize politicians. But realistically, they are just human beings trying to do a difficult frustrating job.
Posts: 9942 | Registered: Mar 2003
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quote: I still don't understand this persistent nutjob talking point. Obama uses a teleprompter during his speeches. So do many other politicians. How the hell did this become something to mock him for? Is he somehow reduced to the level of a stuttering 4-year-old without his magic toy? Because I haven't noticed that happening during his many interviews, off the cuff comments, press conferences or debates.
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