quote:4e, apparently, changes that to the extent that spellcasters aren't drastically more powerful at nearly every stage of the game. You enjoy playing spellcasters, thus you don't like that as much.
Well, I can actually come up with a number of arguments for why someone who enjoyed playing spellcasters in earlier versions of D&D, all questions of relative power aside, might still find 4E off-putting. The play style is very different now, both in and out of combat.
Posts: 37449 | Registered: May 1999
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quote:Originally posted by Blayne Bradley: I have read and experianced enough of 3.5 to like it as it is and any changes to occur should only be from the additional of additional source books and house rules and read enough of 4th edition to know I do not like it for its raping of wizards to appeal to the beer drinking frat boy demographic.
The silliness of that quote aside (wizard: altered to appeal to the frat boy demographic. Special "Wizards: They Dope!" marketing campaign soon to be released in conjunction with Coors Lite), they 'raped' wizards to put them in line with the other classes. You exhibit a blatant double standard where you demand that wizards be an imbalanced class, and this drives your somewhat obsessive complaints.
quote:To elaborate on my knee jerk position is that the only balance required is the balance to make the game enjoyable and long lasting, wizards are powerful at the end as a reward to symbolize their quest for ultimate arcane power it is consistent with the background lore, magic shouldn't be a linear progression, quadratic makes perfect sense in this regard. Obviously a wizard shouldn't be able to single handedly win every CR equal encounter in a given day without tiring the system is thus inherently self balancing
Already handled this. Your 'self balancing' comment is absolutely false, for the reasons already mentioned as well as the fact that physical classes 'tire' effectively as fast due to the hit point mechanic, and their greater susceptibility to save v. death mechanics, which they lack special defenses towards (being struck completely dead is indeed a form of tiring in 3.5).
quote:All of this from the assumption that D&D is a PVE game and that considerations of class balance between the classes in a competitive sense should ever never or only minimally effect decisions on the matter
The notion that class balance considerations should only impact game design decisions in the event of multiplayer is one that is pretty much cut-and-dried absolutely false. Not even Skip Williams and Monte Cook would agree with that; they agree that the class imbalance was regretful even in thy cherished 3.x.
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posted
I'm playing it on a MacBook Pro. I don't own a console and haven't the slightest idea how the two would compare, but PC is working fine for me.
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posted
Get the PC version. The console versions do not allow you to zoom out or pause, which is a handicap in a tactical RPG.
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posted
Gamespot has a video review in which they state the console versions are inferior to the PC version, though off the top of head I can't remember why. (I think for the same reasons that Tom mentioned.)
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Um, I can pause on the Xbox. Presumably Tom is talking about the console version having an inferior in-battle pause experience, which is a bit different than not having a pause at all. Though this hasn't really been a problem for me. I have so far not really needed to pause in battle all that often. I usually do fine controlling my character and the other party members do pretty well on their own.
As far as a recommendation, I'd also say that all things being equal I'd get the PC version. For me all is not equal as my consoles are hooked up to a large screen TV with surround sound and I don't have a game-spec'd PC so I went with the console version.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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quote:So, has anyone discovered any Spell Combos or Secret Achievements yet?
I've found the same single Spell Combo as you. I'm not sure about secret achievements as they aren't marked secret once you get them and I haven't made a point of memorizing the non-secret achievements ahead of time.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Sean Monahan: So, has anyone discovered any Spell Combos or Secret Achievements yet?
<minor spoilers>
I've only found one Spell Combo so far: Improved Drain = Vulnerability Hex + Drain Life.
</minor spoilers>
I've found a couple.
**spoiler**
If you hit an enemy that is frozen or petrified with spells that do physical damage (stonefist and crushing prison, at least) there is a chance that they will outright shatter regardless of health. Strong enough melee criticals can also do it.
Also, when you place a glyph of repulsion overlapping a glyph of paralysis, it causes a large AOE paralysis effect.
posted
I'm holding off playing the game anymore until it's been ironed out a bit. It's okay, though, it's absolutely a great game, I just want a GOTY edition and easy access to all the DLC.
My current estimation is that if they do actually tone down the mages (and they should) a large part of that will involve nerfing Cone of Cold.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Sean Monahan: So, has anyone discovered any Spell Combos or Secret Achievements yet?
<minor spoilers>
I've only found one Spell Combo so far: Improved Drain = Vulnerability Hex + Drain Life.
</minor spoilers>
Glyph of Repulsion and glyph of paralysis create a paralyzingly explosion. Inferno plus Blizzard plus that lightning storm spell create storm of the century. Sleep plus horror creates nightmare
Posts: 305 | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
Listen: The reason why I want a celebratory re-release type of version (that's what a GOTY edition is) is because all the bugs will be hammered out by then and they will have included a lot of the initial DLC in it since the market will have been saturated with that stuff anyway.
A Digital Deluxe Edition isn't that. It's just a premium release, still a release edition.
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You know, I completely forgot what it might mean that Flemeth is a master shapeshifter, and how that little factoid might affect my character and the party...
posted
Rakeesh, that sounds like the sort of thing you might want in major spoiler brackets. Now I'm gonna spend the rest of the game looking for what is probably supposed to be a surprise.
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posted
Err, sorry Raymond. I specifically phrased it so that I thought it wouldn't be a spoiler. I thought I was pretty vague, except to hint that Flemeth will play a role in the game beyond the initial stages, which I guess to me was a given.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I had a similar reaction to Raymond's. Bringing to the forefront a plot point, even if we've all seen it, is definitely spoilerish. I'm also going to obsess a bit about this now, possibly not getting to enjoy the "gee whiz" experience that prompted you to comment on it in the first place.
Posts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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posted
Sorry about that, folks. It was a 'sheesh, that was a silly oversight of mine' sort of thing in my head. It never really occurred to me that it'd be spoilerish. I was anticipating reactions like Tom's actually.
Can't un-say it, but stilly, sorry.
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posted
It's OK. I added my comment mostly to make sure Raymond didn't feel like he was being an oversensitive idiot (or at least not the *only* oversensitive idiot), not to pile on.
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quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: SPOILER-ish question
Has anyone been able to survive the undead attack on Redcliffe with Mayor Murdock alive? I've tried multiple times without success.
SPOILER-ish question
I'm at this point now, and having difficulty. For those who have completed this successfully, can I ask what level you were and what your lineup was?
I'm currently a level 7 elf mage. (I had only just now seen Tom's suggestion to go to the Circle first - Redcliffe was my first stop.)
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posted
Are you having difficulty with the battle itself or just with keeping the mayor alive? I'm not sure if that latter is possible based on my experience.
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posted
The battle itself. I have no problem with the part up by the windmill, but down in front of the Chantry, it's not long before the NPCs get overwhelmed, then I get overwhelmed.
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Huh. I didn't have too much trouble with it with a level 7/8-ish party that includes two mages (myself, Morrigan), Alistair, and the rogue Leliana.
There are a couple side quests in the town that I think beef up the resistance from the locals but I don't know how much difference those might make. You can read about them in this IGN preview of the game (minor spoilers): http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/102/1026605p1.htmlPosts: 3275 | Registered: May 2007
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posted
I managed barely to keep the Mayor alive with a party of myself (rogue), Morrigan, Sten, and Alistair. It took repeated attempts.
I managed almost without difficulty at all to keep everyone except for two or three militiamen alive with the same party except for replacing Morrigan with Wynne. Had to keep a careful eye on the characters not in the party and target heals to them, but other than that there wasn't any problem.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by MattP: Huh. I didn't have too much trouble with it with a level 7/8-ish party that includes two mages (myself, Morrigan), Alistair, and the rogue Leliana.
There are a couple side quests in the town that I think beef up the resistance from the locals but I don't know how much difference those might make. You can read about them in this IGN preview of the game (minor spoilers): http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/102/1026605p1.html
I have done all the side quests, and my lineup is almost the same as yours, except that I have Sten in for Alistair. Also, I'm playing on Hard difficulty. (Up until now, I had been thinking that it was still too easy.) Though I'm embarrassed to admit that until Rakeesh said it, it never occurred to me to throw heals to the NPCs.
Posts: 1080 | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Well, you probably shouldn't do it unless you've got Wynne who has two other healing spells at her disposal for when the cooldown is ticking and (if I'm not mistaken) as a Spirit Healer gets a bonus to healing spells anyway.
I tried healing the non-party NPCs with Morrigan, but it didn't work.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
I'll note that there are a few sections that I found a little boring where I wasn't quite sure what I was supposed to do. Given the sitaution you have described, I'd take advantage of those moments to go do homework or whatever (instead of pushing through them like I did).
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In the Redcliffe main quest, I took the goody-two-boots route, saving Connor and his mother by going to the Circle for help and driving the demon out directly from the Fade. Both son and mother survived.
My quest log says that, however in the Codex under Connor's entry and his mother's, it's said she sacrificed herself to save her son. Balls to that! I went to a lot of trouble, or rather, made Wynne go to a lot of trouble;)
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Well, I can handle the revenants I've encountered as part of quests alright. Tough fights, especially if they've got friends, but do-able. But the ones that you find by stumbling across their phylacteries? I've encountered two of them so far, and been totally without success in beating them. I think if maybe I were willing to spend several gold in potions before the fight (because it would literally take that long, Wynne would run out of mana multiple times, and poultices would be needed during cooldown recharges occasionally, I could do it.
I think I'll just come back to them later. Hopefully the one I came across as a random encounter in a city will be able to be stumbled over again.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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Does anyone else have a really hard time switching out party members after playing for a while. I get a few people I like early on in the game, get them leveled and outfitted how I like them, and then I just can't bring myself to swap them out for someone else. I keep sending prospective party members to camp to rot. I seem to have this problem with every party-based RPG that I play.
Yes, it is dumb when a game does that. I recently beat Magical Starsign (Nintendo DS), and though it's easy one good thing about it is that your party can contain at one time all the characters who join you over the whole game. (You start with two and work up to six.) So no character stays too far below the others.
Posts: 781 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Does anyone else have a really hard time switching out party members after playing for a while. I get a few people I like early on in the game, get them leveled and outfitted how I like them, and then I just can't bring myself to swap them out for someone else.
Yeah, what's especially tough for me is not bringing along the attractive females my character is crushing on.
I never went anywhere without Bastilla, Handmaiden, Aerie, Liara, etc.
There is a 100% chance I am going to buy DA:O, it's just a matter of when. Might be this weekend (tonight) or I may wait a bit. Looking forward to joining the fun.
posted
Anyone know if it's viable to make a melee-mage character, focusing on the various self-buff spells?
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I made a blood mage and actually felt really bad while I did it. I am impressed when a game makes me worry about the morality of the choices I am making in it
Posts: 305 | Registered: Jan 2008
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So I got the game today. So far I've played through the Human Noble opening to the point where I've just met the king.
I also have played the Magi opening a bit. I'm assuming that this character will eventually go to the same place that my warrior is, but that's just a guess.
I love playing these incredibly different openings so much that I may need to see the two elf and two dwarf ones before I am satisfied enough to actually play the rest of the game.
Posts: 5656 | Registered: Oct 1999
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Yeah, the different beginnings part is - for me, at least - a really cool not-seen-before thing. Plenty of RPG games have the same openings that can become different or even radically different depending on how you play, but I can't think of one I've played where they're all completely different.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Raymond Arnold: Anyone know if it's viable to make a melee-mage character, focusing on the various self-buff spells?
Plot info: go to the dalish camp forest, follow through to the ruins. Inside, you'll find a sort of a gem phylactery (not a cold 'unease' producing one, which will produce a revenant if poked) that, if interacted with, can lead you to the secret of the elven Arcane Warriors.
Talent no. 1 gives you the unbelievable benefit of being able to use your magic stat in the place of strength for the purposes of determining whether or not you can wear armor or wield weapons, and you use your spellpower stat to determine damage. Whoopee.
Posts: 15421 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Gah, I tried starting a new character having lost my original dwarf-chick, but couldn't stand going through the conversations without her. I'd like to make each characters' conversation choices different, but I can't bring myself to do the "mean" choices until I've gone through once with a relatively nice character. (Gretchen the dwarf had some biting sarcasm but she meant well).
I found myself slightly miffed that Alister openly flirted with the human woman I made later and not with Gretchen. What, dwarf girls aren't cute enough for you? Bah.
I ended up remaking my original character. I kept making schizophrenic conversation choices with the human mage, alternating between trying new conversation paths and then feeling guilty about my decisions afterwards. Even though the game probably doesn't care that much, I couldn't really get into the character.
I also felt like Duncan's decision to recruit me as a mage felt a lot more random than the dwarf commoner. I talked to him for 5 minutes and suddenly he has a "high opinion of me?" Dwarf commoner felt a lot more like I had to earn his respect.
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