posted
Does Klingon have words for love, banana, tummy, etc? If not I think it's a terrible thing to wait so long to teach your child those concepts.
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Klingon appears to be a difficult language According to the dictionary, love translates as 'Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005'
[MySQL][ODBC 3.51 Driver]Can't connect to MySQL server on 'localhost' (10061)
And the word for tummy (as stomach or belly)is burgh and chor respectively.
There seems to be no word for banana. Although, if I were a Klingon and never saw a banana, I would probably pronounce it banana, but with a guttural accent.
posted
The dad spoke Klingon. His wife spoke English. It's not like the child's been deprived of anything. Also, the kid's in high school now AND doesn't ever speak Klingon. I think he's fine.
Posts: 3516 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Using your child as a lab rat to sell software.
Wow.
The blog post is a bit misleading on that point. The article that it links to makes it pretty clear that the timeline is more like "Speers tries to teach his kid to speak Klingon natively" -> ten or more years pass -> "Ultralingua is looking for a Klingon consultant, hears that Speers has experience with the language, and contacts him."
Whether using your kid as a lab rat just to satisfy your own curiosity is better is an open question, I guess.
Posts: 650 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hmm. I wouldn't be myself, but I do have to wonder: how much will the kid be hampered by this in life? If there's anyone capable of 'catching up' the kid, so to speak, on speaking English as a native language while the kid is still toddling around, I think it would be this guy.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Why would he necessarily be hampered? If he grew up hearing and learning 2 languages, my guess is he'll be just fine - in fact, if he has an interest in language I bet it will have helped him.
Audrey hears English and Spanish daily - she's not talking yet, so I don't know if she'll start speaking both, but she certainly understands both at this point.
Posts: 1295 | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, it's possible he might be hampered by only hearing one language, not two, for the first three years of his life-a made up language not used for anything about actually living and making one's way in the world, that is.
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
That's ridiculous. Now, if Dad had only spoken Sindarin - it would have been at least ten levels of awesome. Posts: 14428 | Registered: Aug 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Bilingual kids do learn languages more slowly, but IIRC, by about age 5 they are as fluent as they monolingual peers.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
My father spoke Norwegian to me when I was a kid, and my mother English. Assertions like "I turned out ok" are of course a bit dangerous, but at least linguistically I think this one might be safe. Posts: 10645 | Registered: Jul 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Actually, I believe bilingual kids have been shown to have a greater ability to pick up new languages later in life, and have a greater understanding of how language works, so it could be a perk.
Posts: 368 | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Rakeesh: Well, it's possible he might be hampered by only hearing one language, not two, for the first three years of his life-a made up language not used for anything about actually living and making one's way in the world, that is.
Sure, hypothetically, but that didn't happen in this case.
Posts: 884 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Hank: Actually, I believe bilingual kids have been shown to have a greater ability to pick up new languages later in life, and have a greater understanding of how language works, so it could be a perk.
I am unconvinced that a language like Klingon, with an artificial grammar and syntax, and an extremely limited vocabulary, would have this benefit.
It's worse than making your kid's "second language" Esperanto!
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Good point, Shmuel, my bad. I meant to say that if he had actually heard only Klingon for the first three years of his life, this particular guy, if anyone could, would be capable of mitigating any bad consequences, y'know?
Posts: 17164 | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by rivka: I am unconvinced that a language like Klingon, with an artificial grammar and syntax, and an extremely limited vocabulary, would have this benefit.
It may be artificial, but it's modeled on real languages and has a pretty complex system of grammar, including a lot of concepts that are quite foreign to English speakers. It does seem that the vocabulary could be quite limiting, however.
Posts: 9945 | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by scifibum: Does Klingon have words for love, banana, tummy, etc? If not I think it's a terrible thing to wait so long to teach your child those concepts.
At what age do you think you should start to teach children about their "love banana"? (Are we even allowed to use the term "love banana" around here?)
Posts: 431 | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Jon Boy: It may be artificial, but it's modeled on real languages and has a pretty complex system of grammar, including a lot of concepts that are quite foreign to English speakers.
Which is why I compared it to Esperanto.
Posts: 32919 | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Hank: Actually, I believe bilingual kids have been shown to have a greater ability to pick up new languages later in life, and have a greater understanding of how language works, so it could be a perk.
According to a preschool teacher that I know (not a linguist), there seems to be a brief period of time when children of bilingual households don't understand either language. They fail to respond to either English or their native language, both at school, and at home according to parents of her bilingual students. However, this is a brief period and is usually followed by the child being extremely fluent in both languages all of a sudden. To her it seems almost as if there is a short time when the brain is adjusting to the languages, and once it's done the child's vocabulary is often much more complex than it was before.
Keep in mind that this is not any kind of a formal study, and again, not a linguist. But just observation by a teacher of young children, many of whom are from bilingual households.
Posts: 1214 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by rivka: Ambyr, thanks for the clarification.
But yeah, I'm not so hepped on kid as lab rat, regardless.
Yup, this is my real problem here. Experimenting on you kid isn't ethical even if it turns out all right in the end.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:there seems to be a brief period of time when children of bilingual households don't understand either language.
Uh...it doesn't have to be a bilingual household in order to have this effect. This period lasts from about age 3 to age 12 (for girls) and age 14 for boys.
Language understanding kicks in about the same time as romantic interest does. Unfortunately, the child's new capability to understand does not lead to an increased desire to do what a parent/authority figure requests. No; instead of a blank, vacant stare, you get a sneer.
quote:Experimenting on you kid isn't ethical even if it turns out all right in the end.
Depending on how it is done, I don't see it as any different from experimenting on other parents' kids with the parents' consent.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes, and we do plenty of experiments with children's language acquisition within those specific rules. That this guy is using his own kid as a subject doesn't make it inherently unethical.
Posts: 10177 | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged |
quote:Depending on how it is done, I don't see it as any different from experimenting on other parents' kids with the parents' consent.
The big difference is that experimenting on your own child creates a conflict of interest that could potential compromise both the child and the experiment.
Posts: 12591 | Registered: Jan 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by MrSquicky: Yes, and we do plenty of experiments with children's language acquisition within those specific rules. That this guy is using his own kid as a subject doesn't make it inherently unethical.
Interesting. I am surrounded by world class experts on how children acquire language. I am now curious enough to ask how the Klingon thing fits into their idea of ethical experimentation.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have a friend whose daughter just turned 7, he has never spoken to her in English. If she tries to ask him something in English, he just looks at her funny until she repeats it in Spanish. His reasons are that he wants her to grow up completely bilingual - so completely comfortable with both that she can instantly express her thoughts in either language without having to translate in her head. He's a second generation immigrant, and he said whenever he talks to his family, he always has to translate from English (the language he thinks in) to Spanish, and it slows him down and makes him awkward.
I'm not sure what the justification for teaching your son Klingon is though... maybe he'll meet a hot Klingon woman at a Star Trek convention some day? I don't see how it hurt his son at all.
Posts: 2222 | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote: I am surrounded by world class experts on how children acquire language. I am now curious enough to ask how the Klingon thing fits into their idea of ethical experimentation.
Please post the answer. Posts: 16551 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I was just reading an article in Time about a school somewhere in the midwest, I want to say Minnesota, where the kids get their entire education in Mandarin. The students tended to have some language/learning issues after a few years, but they all sorted themselves out before they hit high school, leaving no lasting problems, but pretty complete bi-lingual command.
Posts: 21898 | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote: I am surrounded by world class experts on how children acquire language. I am now curious enough to ask how the Klingon thing fits into their idea of ethical experimentation.
Please post the answer.
I will once I get it. I am surrounded by them, but they are busy folks.
Posts: 11187 | Registered: Sep 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
FYI: We adopted our son from Russia just before his 4th birthday.
He could speak elementary Russian.
Within months of moving to the US and being immersed in English (well, American English anyway) he lost all his Russian. One teacher and one family friend tried to coax it back but he refused.
Today his only problem with English is his retainer. The only Russian he knows are the few words we memorized--mostly NYET.
(It is interesting. If there is one word that you truly must use to raise a healthy child, it isn't love or hug or good. Its, "NO!". As in "No-step away from the stove." and "No, do not play with the cat that way." and "No, reboot mama's computer again while she's winning a Canasta tournament and you may not reach your next birthday.")
Posts: 1941 | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Darth_Mauve: (It is interesting. If there is one word that you truly must use to raise a healthy child, it isn't love or hug or good. Its, "NO!". As in "No-step away from the stove." and "No, do not play with the cat that way." and "No, reboot mama's computer again while she's winning a Canasta tournament and you may not reach your next birthday.")
My dad would always tell me the reason God made children so cute is so their parents wouldn't be tempted to eat them. I got the point pretty quick.
Posts: 2222 | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Laugh]](graemlins/laugh.gif)
