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Author Topic: A question for the women of hatrack
Christine
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Not really, just feeling left out. [Smile] (Although reading the replies has been educational)

What do you suppose the female equivalent of strip clubs are, anyway? Someone had a male stripper at a bachelorette party I attended once...would have paid to have him keep his clothes on. I'm really not interested in naked men, unless there's some emotional buildup. Is that weird?

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mr_porteiro_head
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Twilight.
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Synesthesia
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Yes. As I'd like to see more nekkid men.
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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
Twilight.

It is arguable that Twilight (and other similar written works) are the (stereotypical) female equivalent of Playboy. Strip clubs are more interactive.

So maybe Twilight fanfic. [Wink]

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mr_porteiro_head
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Twilight LARP?

:shudder:

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Christine
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Twilight? Ewwwww....

If we're going to compare strip clubs to romance novels, could we at least choose good ones?

And besides the fact that it sucks, Twilight doesn't even have any explicit descriptions of sex.

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mr_porteiro_head
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quote:
If we're going to compare strip clubs to romance novels, could we at least choose good ones?
No. We compare it to the ones which apparently have the widest appeal.

quote:
Twilight doesn't even have any explicit descriptions of sex.
Which might be part of the widespread appeal.
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Christine
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
quote:
If we're going to compare strip clubs to romance novels, could we at least choose good ones?
No. We compare it to the ones which apparently have the widest appeal.

quote:
Twilight doesn't even have any explicit descriptions of sex.
Which might be part of the widespread appeal.

What makes you think Twilight has the widest appeal? As far as I can tell, it is a pop culture fad, mostly popular among young girls. I have seen no evidence to suggest that it is more popular than mainstream romance novels, which have been selling quite well to women of all ages for hundreds of years.

And aren't you a man? [Smile]

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rivka
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quote:
Originally posted by Christine:
What makes you think Twilight has the widest appeal? As far as I can tell, it is a pop culture fad, mostly popular among young girls. I have seen no evidence to suggest that it is more popular than mainstream romance novels, which have been selling quite well to women of all ages for hundreds of years.

Agreed.

I wonder how the sales compare to Nora Roberts' books, for instance. (I'm trying to find sales data for Naked in Death (#1 of the In Death books) without much luck.)

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Christine
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It's hard to find these numbers, and I'm not sure if I'm using the most reliable sources, but a couple of sites seemed to agree that Twilight has sold about 17 million copies.

I found this on a wikipedia article about romance novels, under North America Markets (this info does not include other worldwide markets):

quote:
By the 2000s, romance had become the most popular genre in modern literature. In 2004, romantic fiction generated $1.2 billion in sales, with 2,285 romance novels published. Almost 55% of all paperback books sold in 2004 were romance novels, and this genre made up 39% of all fiction sold that year. Over 64 million people claimed to have read at least one romance novel in 2004, according to a Romance Writers of America study, a 26% increase over their 2001 study. Twenty-two percent of romance readers identified themselves as male, and the romance readers were split evenly between people who were married and those who were single. People of all ages read romance novels, with one percent of readers younger than 13, and forty-two percent of them have at least a bachelor's degree.[29]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_novel
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James Tiberius Kirk
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
Twilight.

Wow, done in one.

--j_k

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scifibum
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<high voice>Helloooo, ladieeees!</high voice>

*hopes it's working*

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Carrie
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Honestly, strip clubs often have decent food. My (female) roommate and I used to go to some for lunch in Tucson, and the burgers were both cheap and tasty. We were also quite able to ignore the entertainment, such as it was.

As for an equivalent, though, I really don't know - I've never searched one out. [Smile]

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Samprimary
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
Twilight.

ahahahahahsahaahhdaigfih4vg34ht63;6


oh holy


DATELINE: DECEMBER: PORTERIO SAVES BEST POST OF YEAR FOR LAST DAYS

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breyerchic04
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I think it's pretty clear that right now, Twilight does have very very wide appeal. Hopefully it'll go away.

I actually spent a few minutes the other day, looking for nc17 twilight fanfic, seems like they have very low standards.

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King of Men
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quote:
nc17 twilight fanfic
Evidence for mph's theory. [Big Grin]
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Goody Scrivener
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I know a lot of 30+ year old women who are as rabidly enamoured of Edward and Jacob as their teen and pre-teen daughters. I don't think I know any single adult women in that group, though.
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breyerchic04
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I'm pretty sure I can think of two female hatrackers who are single and over 30 that love Edward or Jacob or did for a while.
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Synesthesia
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quote:
Originally posted by Goody Scrivener:
I know a lot of 30+ year old women who are as rabidly enamoured of Edward and Jacob as their teen and pre-teen daughters. I don't think I know any single adult women in that group, though.

Edward and Jacob are OK, but it's all about Carlise.
I love that guy. He's so cool!

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breyerchic04
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Ehh. If I were going to like any of them it'd be Emmett or maybe Jasper.
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Verily the Younger
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I don't know that most women really want an "equivalent" to strip clubs, do they? I mean, sure, there are Chippendale's clubs and such (and the female clientele are much louder and bawdier than the men in strip clubs, by the way), but those don't have the same general appeal across the female sex as regular strip clubs do the male. To most men--even these days, when internet porn is so easy to find for free--simply seeing a real live woman naked is often an end in itself. For women, seeing a man naked is usually just a minor part of a much wider emotional experience.

I mean, not to get all sexist about it. But even straight women have to admit that a naked woman is a thing of beauty, while a naked man is a thing of comedy. Seeing a man naked just isn't particularly a goal for very many women, is it?

Edit: Well, I shouldn't say "most" men. Most young, single men, maybe. Few older men are as easily impressed, and men in committed relationships, if they are decent and not cads, take too much pleasure in their own ladies to be particularly enthralled by other women. Or at least, they ought to be. [No No]

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scifibum
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Wait, I think you forgot one:

Men like cholesterol, and women like salads!

[Wink]

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Christine
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I like cholesterol. My butt and thighs like salads. [Smile]
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Dogbreath
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quote:
Originally posted by Goody Scrivener:
I don't think I know any single adult women in that group, though.

I know a woman who is 26, single, and completely in love with Twilight. She's normally a very level head, sensible sort of person too.
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malanthrop
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I've been married for 11 years. Strippers are fantasies of men...temporary fantasies. Reality is something different. I think the female equivalent of a strip club would be a woman paying a man to maintain eye contact with here while she has something to say while a football game is on the TV. [Smile] Reality, she doesn't really want to be married to the gay guy and a man would tire of a naked stripper wagging her tail around the house all day. I'm guessing a woman's fantasy would wear thin after a while as well. Fantasies should be reserved for special occasions, otherwise they would just be normal. Porn is bad because it makes men think what those women do is normal. Soap operas are female porn and just as bad.
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katharina
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I can see a lot of criticisms of Twilight, but claiming that it doesn't have the widest appeal is mystifying. Numbers don't say much, but they do say how many people are reading/watching it (a LOT), and presumably most are doing it because it appeals to them.
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sarcasticmuppet
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quote:
Originally posted by malanthrop:
...I think the female equivalent of a strip club would be a woman paying a man to maintain eye contact with here while she has something to say while a football game is on the TV. [Smile] Reality, she doesn't really want to be married to the gay guy...

Wait, what?
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Christine
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quote:
Originally posted by katharina:
I can see a lot of criticisms of Twilight, but claiming that it doesn't have the widest appeal is mystifying. Numbers don't say much, but they do say how many people are reading/watching it (a LOT), and presumably most are doing it because it appeals to them.

It does NOT have wide enough appeal to be conside4red the female equivalent of a strip club. It's insulting to suggest that the entire female gender can be swayed by a single work of fiction -- as if the entire male gender can be swayed by any individual stripper -- or perhaps a single super model.

If you want to say that romance novels or even love stories in general are the female equivalent of a strip club I'll listen and probably suppose you're right. I rather enjoy them myself. But we are NOT all Twilight fanatics and we do not need to be branded by our gender to fit into such a narrow stereotype.

Sheesh, I feel like I did a year or two ago when I told some idiot man that I hated to shop and he insisted that was impossible, because I'm a woman.

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katharina
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I thought you were saying it doesn't have the widest appeal of the romantic novel/movie options. It certainly does.

You can't compare a single work to an entire business. I suspect it certainly has wider appeal than any given porn star or strip club, and I suspect that that the money made on romance novels might be close to the money spent on strip clubs or porn.

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Geraine
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quote:
Originally posted by breyerchic04:
I think it's pretty clear that right now, Twilight does have very very wide appeal. Hopefully it'll go away.

I actually spent a few minutes the other day, looking for nc17 twilight fanfic, seems like they have very low standards.

I was looking on a movie website and came across a straight to DVD movie called "Taintlight". It is a parody of Twilight. I'm not into that sort of thing and it doesn't interest me, but the synopsis did sound pretty hilarious. It had a saying on the front that said (and I am probably botching this) "There is always a secret in the darket nether regions."

Oh, here we go:

Riding the lofty coattails of the international tween sensation, TAINTLIGHT is the tale of Stella, a young girl who falls in love with an ancient, beautifully-behaired bloodsucker named Edgar. They struggle to stay together in the midst of vampire carnage, but a love triangle bubbles up when a Michael Jackson-loving werewolf named Jack comes forward professing his own love for Stella. Meanwhile, a rival group of “real” vampires led by the evil Razor McBleed are on the prowl, looking to put the stake to Edgar so they can feast on Stella and the rest of Bonejack Heights in this over-the-top horror parody with tongue firmly in cheek!"

If anyone sees it, let me know if it is worth watching.

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AchillesHeel
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Sounds like something Misty Mundae would star in.
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katharina
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It doesn't sound very funny. The great thing about Hatrack is that it is its own parody - it's difficult to successfully satirize what already sounds like a satire.
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Farmgirl
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quote:
Originally posted by Verily the Younger:
I don't know that most women really want an "equivalent" to strip clubs, do they? I mean, sure, there are Chippendale's clubs and such (and the female clientele are much louder and bawdier than the men in strip clubs, by the way), but those don't have the same general appeal across the female sex as regular strip clubs do the male. To most men simply seeing a real live woman naked is often an end in itself. For women, seeing a man naked is usually just a minor part of a much wider emotional experience.

Years and years ago, I let a group of gals I worked in an office with talk me into going with them to see a Chippendale's performance - they were going to be in town one night only. Actually, they begged me to go to be their designated driver, since I was the only non-drinker amongst the group (so I told myself I was going to protect my friends)

The male strippers/dancers were just - appalling. I mean, in their eyes - their faces -- it was like they were totally zoned out and not there. Lights on, nobody home. (perhaps on drugs) Going through the motions like robots. Sure they had picture-perfect bodies, but there was nothing sexually arousing about seeing them perform.

I noticed that none of the women in the place really seemed to "get into" it much until they had many, many drinks in their system. They had to be really drunk to start playing the part of being "turned on" by this show. Then it all just became about making a show for their friends.

I think it must be very different for men watching females dancers (I'm assuming). I certainly would never want to repeat that experience.

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Tuukka
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Here in Finland we have a Chippendales-type performance group called "Hunks". Although their show is better, funnier, raunchier, and with constant interaction with the female audience.

I've seen them a couple of times and the girls go completely wild in their shows, and the atmosphere is through the roof. Since the audience is almost entirely 18-30 year old women, it's pretty much the best place any man could imagine for scoring.

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El JT de Spang
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There's no direct female analogue to strip clubs. Men are visual creatures; women are much less so.

Twilight is actually bigger with women than strip clubs are with men, so far as I can tell.

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rollainm
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quote:
Originally posted by mr_porteiro_head:
Twilight.

Zing!!

Ah don cur hoo ya r, das funny ri der!! Har har har-

Okay, I'm done.

I actually agree with JT. They're not really comparable, but regardless it seems to me Twilight is much more popular with the ladies than strip clubs are for guys.

[ December 30, 2009, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: rollainm ]

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Jim-Me
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quote:
Originally posted by Tuukka:
Since the audience is almost entirely 18-30 year old women, it's pretty much the best place any man could imagine for scoring.

Unless you prefer your women in the 30-50 range...
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malanthrop
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I agree that men are visually stimulated while women are otherwise stimulated. If I want to turn on my wife: I clean the house for her, take the family out for dinner and play with the kids for a couple hours. All she needs to do is walk past me after getting out of the shower.
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Ace of Spades
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That's funny. I don't have to do any of that to turn on your wife.
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sinflower
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Haha, this thread, and specifically some of the male responses. I don't think women are as blind to the physical as some men think. Or as turned on by men doing housework. Perhaps some of us are... or we overstate the extent to which we are to get you to do stuff... or we don't want to admit our shallowness. [Razz] But saying that women aren't visually stimulated is just...silly. I'll take tall dark and handsome (or tall light and handsome, depends on the mood) over chubby and plain any day!

I think the equivalent of a strip club for women is simply a strip club... for women, with male strippers. Although due to societal norms over what amount of clothing is sexy for women and men respectively, maybe the strippers would just have to take off their jackets and shirts and keep the pants, lol. I would also be interested in flirting/conversation and maybe some light roleplay. But the "beautiful/pretty/hot looking people" factor still has to be there.

As for romance novels, they're rather like the equivalent of porn, aren't they? Just more sophisticated. But they don't have the "it's real life/ you're actually there" factor of strip clubs. So maybe the equivalent would just be a club where people roleplay common scenarios found in romance novels, just like strip clubs kind of roleplay porn and make it interactive/real (but obviously are much more limited in content).

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Verily the Younger
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I don't think anyone has denied that women are visually stimulated. And there will be a wide range among individuals as to what works for them and what doesn't. But generally speaking, women, as a sex, are not as narrowly focused on visual stimulation as men, as a sex, are.

Of course there are strip clubs for women with male strippers. But how many of those are there compared to the reverse? It's not that women don't want to be stimulated; it's just that the majority of women find other ways. Strip clubs with female dancers are more profitable because there are more people who will go to them.

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Raymond Arnold
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quote:
Originally posted by Verily the Younger:
I don't think anyone has denied that women are visually stimulated.

quote:
I agree that men are visually stimulated while women are otherwise stimulated.

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Jim-Me
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Dr. Simon Tam: We'll get off the ship. River and I will get off at Haven. It'll be for the best.

Kaylee Frye: Nobody's sayin' that.

Hoban 'Wash' Washburn: Nobody but Jayne is sayin' that.

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Christine
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I appreciate my husband doing housework, but it does not turn me on. I've heard women claim this and I really have to wonder if they're not just trying to get their husbands to do housework.

And I do appreciate a naked male body -- the only thing is that I need some substance behind it first. That's why male strip clubs are not the same thing.

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scifibum
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Edited.

I think the post I was responding to was edited or deleted. Oops.

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Christine
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That was probably me, sorry. Suddenly felt self conscious about what I'd posted. [Smile]
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Raymond Arnold
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I think the "housework turns me on" thing is less to do with women being physically aroused by the act of housework, and more to do with them being actively DIS-aroused by a lazy husband who never does anything. So yes, they're just trying to get their husbands to do housework, but I'm sure there's a lot of husbands who really need the encouragement. (To be fair, there's probably plenty of wives by this point who have the same problem).

For those people, I think translating "I am more likely to have sex with you if I'm in a good mood, and I'm more likely to be in a good mood if you did the god damned dishes every now and then" to a shorthand of "Doing dishes turns me on," is not unreasonable. (There's a difference between that and just withholding sex until your partner does things for you but I'm not sure where that line gets drawn).

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Verily the Younger
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quote:
Originally posted by Raymond Arnold:
I think the "housework turns me on" thing is less to do with women being physically aroused by the act of housework, and more to do with them being actively DIS-aroused by a lazy husband who never does anything. So yes, they're just trying to get their husbands to do housework, but I'm sure there's a lot of husbands who really need the encouragement. (To be fair, there's probably plenty of wives by this point who have the same problem).

For those people, I think translating "I am more likely to have sex with you if I'm in a good mood, and I'm more likely to be in a good mood if you did the god damned dishes every now and then" to a shorthand of "Doing dishes turns me on," is not unreasonable. (There's a difference between that and just withholding sex until your partner does things for you but I'm not sure where that line gets drawn).

I think that nails it. It's not that women have some kind of fetish for men in rubber gloves (though no doubt some of them do) so much as that a man who doesn't pull his own weight is inherently less sexy than a man who willingly chips in and doesn't complain about it. Anyone would be happier with a partner who takes a share in the housework, and anyone would be more inclined to initiate sex if they were happy with their partner.
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Tarrsk
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quote:
Originally posted by Ace of Spades:
That's funny. I don't have to do any of that to turn on your wife.

::high five::

::Jager bomb::

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Kwea
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That was horrible. Funny as hell, but horrible.
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